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It seems to me that in the long term Israelis needs peace a thousand times more urgently than any other peoples in the region [with the exception of Palestinians]
turtlesplash turtlesplash 36-40, M 9 Answers Nov 2, 2012 in Hobbies

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Hopefully not and I know it will not!

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the Palestinians have been utterly victimized and traumatized by the creation of Isreal, but their Arab brothers have done very little politically to help them, preferring to use them as a political football to advance their own national interests

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or often simply sectarian, tribal or financial interests

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What do the Arab countries have to do with this? So, you murder my friend and I do nothing to defend him from you, does this make me the murderer or is it still YOU who murdered him? It is absurd to try blaming the creation of Israel and all the wrong has been done to the Palestinians on the Arab countries, " the Israeli New Nazis" and the western support will always be guilty of that.

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it was a side point really, and i guess a foolish one to make with you in this context, sorry for that - but i didn't strictly blame anyone ---- i do however feel that you seem as partisan on this issue as a Zionist settler is on the other side of it, that both of you actually seem to want to the same thing in the end, which is genocide [just in different directions] --- i appreciate however that you are speaking from more personal experience than i, who speaks from the abstract distance of history and philosophy

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Hopefully they don't last that long anyway.

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sounds like you're wishing for genocide

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Remember the Liberty.

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?

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Google it. The U.S.S. Liberty was a U.S. vessel which was attacked in international waters by a team of Israeli fighters, cruisers, and submarines. Johnson hushed it all up because he wanted to focus on the Soviets instead of calling Israel out on it. There's no way one could mistakenly identify a vessel in broad daylight that was flying U.S. colors and then launch an attack a full two hours later. The radio frequency used for emergency alerts by the U.S. Navy was specifically blocked during the attack.

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okay, interesting, but given that it happened during the Six Day War it hardly looks like a conspiracy [and why on earth would Isreal WANT to antagonize the US at such a desperate hour] - interestingly the memorial website to the ship and crew specifically distances itself from the specific conspiracy claims such as yours, and states offense at the way anti-Semitic groups have hijacked their cause --- but even if you assume that it's real, it's not like all nations don't do things like that - surely there's better reason to want to annihilation of another country - i realize that Isreal has been an internationally destabilizing entity in many ways, but i don't think it's a matter of simple goodies and baddies - after all, the US, through the UN, has virtually created the nation of Israel

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in the modern political sense, at least

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What conspiracy theory is that? The memorial flatly argues that it was a planned attack, as I do. Did you read more than just that first page? There could be any number of reasons, but none of them can be known to the victims because Johnson shut it down almost immediately. Read about those who read the information feed from the nearby communications vessel that intercepted and translated all the radio activity between the fighters and Israel ground command and were subsequently ordered not to speak of it. I don't care what others nations have done unless those actions are similarly unprovoked, unjustified, covered up, and targeted on the U.S.

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i didn't mean that it didn't happen, or that Isreal didn't do it, just that raising it in this context implies all kinds of conspiracies and was something of red herring in this context - in relation to justifying genocide it's like saying you killed someone because you didn't like the way they looked at you

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What genocide? I hope that half of the near/middle east destroys itself through their millennia-old feuds. Were that to happen through conventional warfare, I'd be fine with it. Honestly, though, I've been around the type who would just as soon kill someone as talk to them.

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i'm just teasing out the implication of your casually worded judgement - but i realize you're not foaming at the mouth or anything

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To be honest I really don't care what happens in Israel or anywhere else. I have my own issues to take care of and they're a lot more important.

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doubtful. But I'm sure I'll have my own probs when that happens.

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Yeah , somewhere else.

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