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I am a good, person. I volunteer, I smile, laugh, make others do the same. I am thankful for what I have each and every day. And yet some still say despite all that, I'm still going to Hell. And these some also argue that if they believe in God, or "repent" murderers have a ticket to Heaven? Is this true? How can that be in any way "moral"? Is this what religion teaches?
HannahBanana3 HannahBanana3 18-21, F 16 Answers Apr 16 in Community

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People that say that stuff are judging you, and that will likely punch their ticket for the train to hell. Just be the best person you can be and treat other the same way that you wish to be treated. The real final judge will welcome you.

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Is not saying because you repent you have a ticket to heaven it's say that even murders who have repented still have a chance to go to heaven. People take everything to literally.

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Even with your logic, that is still not fair. if I don't repent, then I go to Hell, despite all the good I've done in the world, the smiles I've given, the life I have lived so successfully? And yet if someone who has ended the life of someone's and broken the hearts and lives of their families's, friend's...can still go to Heaven? Still has a chance? That's some messed up logic...

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This is precisely what I have a problem with. Ultimately, if all bad deeds can be forgiven and it doesnt matter how many times a person sin, whats the point with heaven and hell? Good or bad? You made some valid points Hannah

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Thank you, thank you very much!

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Anyone can have eternity with God if they are forgiven their sins.

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So if I don't repent? Then I automatically go to Hell? If I don't become submissive to religion, then I go to hell, no matter what tremendous good I did in the world? Wow, just wow...

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If you do not accept the gift of forgiveness of your sins offered to you by the Atonement paid for by the Messiah Jesus you will not have eternity with God.

Also you basic thinking is Human when it comes to being a good person and being a bad person. You thinking is called relative measure.. Meaning human beings have a Pass Mark thinking that if a person scores higher then their pass mark then they are called a good person and if a person scores below their personal pass make then they declare them a bad person. Some people have higher standards so for one person if another persons scores 70% + then they are declared a good person. Some people have very high standards they will not call someone good unless they score 90% + ,, Generally the persons personal opinion of their own level of goodness determines the level of the pass mark they will impose on others.

God being perfect has ab Absolute measure when determining if a person is good or bad. God is perfect therefore His pass mark is 100% . So a person to justify their own eternal existence with god in a perfect existence must achieve a life of perfection. a score of 99% is a fail to God. So therefore the only way for a person to have eternity with God who has an absolute measure of goodness is to have all their sins forgiven.

God offers all men forgiveness and it does not matter one person is at 40% or another is at 95% Both need to have their sins forgiven and God offers each person that forgiveness as a free gift through Believing Jesus and trusting in the atonement He provided.

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God is the most evil, ungrateful "thing" I have ever heard of. How hateful and particular can a single "thing" be? I never personally liked God, but thanks to you, now it's more so. How hateful, how terrible! To not appreciate the good I have done and to overlook the terrible bad others have done? You still dodged my question: despite all my good I have done, I'm still going to Hell while murderers live it up in Heaven, right? That's what your logic is telling me. Because God is just a stuck-up thing that has to have everything be perfect and follow him. Wow, that's the most egotistical thing I have ever heard of. Thank goodness he isn't real, so evil like that doesn't exist. Whew!

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"Everything has to be 100%, or else it's just not good enough. And oh, you can be a cold hearted murderer, but as long as you tell me your sins, you can be in Heaven". Wow, just wow.

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God loves a joyful giver. God loves a loving person. But that does not mean God can compromise perfect Justice. God revealed his love by coming to earth as the Messiah Jesus and suffering a terrible death to pay the price for our sins so as to obtain atonement for us. All the Good that we have done does not cancel out all the bad we have done. And the murderers are still under the same condition and they need to believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He provided. So there are a some murderers who will not be spending eternity with God.

Also you cannot hate someone who you truly believe does not exist. Your emotional response to the revelation of God reveals that deep down inside you know that God exists. Indeed disagreement with God is no basis for any claim that God does not exist. Although it seems that most people who disbelieve in God have as their foundation disagreement with Gods will.

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No, the hatred and emotion you see towards the subject is my reaction to the ignorance and what evil some people can create, even live by! That evil is God, the Bible, fear of the Devil. That is what makes me not believe in God, because the idea is just too evil, and ridiculous and people are obsessed with it, like you I'm afraid. And you are saying that Jesus paid for our sins because he died a terrible death? With your logic, that means that millions of others who have paid the exact same price, died a death much more terrible than how Jesus supposedly died, are therefore equally as holy as Jesus! SO why aren't we worshiping them? And you are right: just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it's not true. But in this case, my disagreement along with so many facts against the subject at hand IS a basis for saying that God does not exist.

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You have made your personal response to the revealed will of God.
You have not only rejected the Way of salvation. You have declared it to be evil.
See to be Redeemed from judgement one must be forgiven. But you have rejected this out of your pride in your good works. People like you want to attain self justification. Human pride is the enemy of mankind. Salvation through being forgiven is only a path for the Meek. And as the scriptures reveal The meek shall inherit the earth. Not the proud..

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Well, scripture is exactly that: scripture. It has exactly no physical meaning, only emotional meaning to each individual as a crutch and a justification of why we are here on Earth and what we are supposed to do with our life, even if it's wrong. And pride is not the enemy, pride is good in moderation, which is what I have. The meek are not the ones to inherit the Earth because they are meek. They won't have enough strength or self-perseverance that someone who is justly proud would, therefore they would be a bad inheritor of the Earth. Your logic has been screwed over, sorry about that. People like YOU are the ones who secretly fear life because deep down you know that there is no God, that you are just as confused and in the dark about our future and what lies beyond the grave as the rest of us are. You use religion and the threat of spending the rest of life in Hell to scare people into believing God, to will them into submission. People like ME are the ones who are against the current, who do things differently. Who live life to the fullest because once you're gone, you're gone. We don't worry about "scripture" or "prophecies" because we don't believe in them. People like ME are the ones who actually use intelligence to the best of our abilities and have an open mind. So when you look at the universe as a big picture, you see that people like ME really lead better lives because they do not follow religion compared to people like YOU. And when we look back on life, we won't have any regrets because we know we lived it to the fullest.

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:)) the Meek will inherit the earth because God who has supreme power will remove the proud who think their strength will secure them the world.. God indeed must be laughing at the pathetic pompous pride of the vain self deluded ones who make plans for world domination.

It is the will of God to give an eternal place for the meek to uplift those who acknowledge their faultiness and trust in His perfection to secure them an Eternal future.. And i think that's wonderful and good, All Boasting is therefore with God. All praise it therefore directed to God. No boasting for for us. Only the Joy for the loving kindness of God who has given us a Way to eternal life with Him in a perfect existence. :D

All Praise The Ancient of Days

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As it is prophesied in the OT so shall it be...

Psalm 2
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

The Son is Jesus, He will come again and he will rule them with an Iron Rod

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

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Ooh, I'm so scared. Sounds TERRIBLE! Wow, I can see how brainwashed you have gotten to be. There's no turning back now, oh ho. Here's a question: how do you know that I'm not God himself, testing your beliefs to see how you stand up for me. Child, you have failed greatly, but I know must reveal my true identity: I AM GOD. Yes, the prophecies I created I have changed in my benefit and I'm here to tell you to go outside and live your life, before it's too late! And because I am God, you must do it. So go! Before I send you to Hell for disrespecting my word, the WORD OF GOD.

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Quoting scripture won't help, dear. In fact, God may just let you burn in Hell for turning me into more of a non-believer. I can play your little game:
God is a hypocrite: see 10 Commandments of "thou shall not kill". And yet, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).
The Bible allows allows, even encourages acts of selling people as sex slaves (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40) and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 AND Psalms 137:9). Bet you just "forgot" about those, huh? And don't give me shitt about how "Oh, that's the Old Testament" because perhaps you should read Luke 16:17 NAB where Jesus clearly states, "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Haha, I got you, assshole. Don't start quoting the Bible unless you know what you are talking about. Guess you aren't that good of a Christian after all, I know more about the Bible than you do, and I'm an atheist! But then again, that's unfair because I am God, so I will let you pass small ignorant creature!

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Whats the point of mockery ? It does not cause me to question my trust in God. It only makes the mocker look ,, well childish..

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Your false allegations against the Scriptures have again no effect. Yes the laws of God are good and true. And the penalty of breaking the law is still death.. The eternal death in the Lake of Fire.. See i have read all these supposed allegations before. I have been doing this online for the past 12 years on many different forums and chat sites. You have not given me anything i have not already investigated and proven wrong.

I am honored by God to face such abuse for His Names sake. Calling me an ""assshole"" surly honors me :)

You are pathetic but the worst thing is your so proud and arrogant you think your brilliant... How deluded. But as the scriptures says they are given over to delusions...

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Are you mocking the word of me, God? There is no mockery, I have come before you as an omen! This is no childish way of fooling, good sir, I have come before you on your own personal Judgment Day. Let me be the, say 100th to say...you have failed. Your arrogance saying and quoting the Scripture have earned you a first place in Hell, dear man. I will send your family my regards. But until then, I must go to that heavenly place in the Sky, goodbye!

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How have you proven them wrong? Please elaborate, I'd love to sit back, rest my head and laugh until I fall asleep with your religious nonsense. And I am brilliant, and I'm glad you noticed. In fact, I'm glad we both noted our positions here: you, the assshole, and me, the brilliant one! :) Well done, we are getting somewhere.

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Look i am under no call to succeed in anything. It is the Message of God that succeeds with the moving effect of the Holy Spirit on the person hearing it. The Messenger if he is doing His job correctly have little to no influence of the process. So it does not affect my relationship with God or my confidence in Him when someone i am giving the message to rejects it. I do not score points when someone believes because the real mover is the Holy Spirit and the Message itself.. This is good because i never have to get depressed because of lack of performance when giving the Message. This way i can continue on doing it without missing a beat.. :D

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Then you have much to learn when I comes to being a messenger. And also, like many religious nuts, you have avoided my important question which you supposedly "had solved": how did you prove any of the Bible quotes had mentioned, and their consolidations of such actions wrong? Elaborabote.

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None of the points you brought forward proved the non existence of God...

You put them forward as examples of Gods dealings that you disagree with..

The position that ""I don't agree with what God did therefore that proves that God does not exist"" Is Illogical to the extreme.

That's like me saying i have read Mein kampf by Adolph Hitler i disagree with much of what it says therefore i conclude Hitler never existed... Can you see how dumb that is?

Disagreement with Gods will simply reveals one disagrees with God it does not disprove God at all.

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No no, I'm not asking how you have proved my point WRONG, I'm asking how you have proved the actual quotes wrong? Did the Bible really have and condone sex slaves, child abuse, bashing babies against rocks and that God is a hypocrite? THAT is what I'm asking, my points are just proving how evil and stupid and unintelligent that fairy tale book, the Bible, is.

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So why don't you believe in God then? What is it that is written in the Bible that proves that God does not exist? What is the basis of your belief that God does not exist?

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Well, despite you not answering my question...AGAIN, here is the basis of my non-belief: It is simply impossible for something to create all things. It is simply impossible for something to create itself out of nothing. And in more detail: there are so many holes in the belief of "God" that I cannot base my life upon it. Who made God? "He made himself, he was always there". Simple logic can tell you at first that is simply not possible, but because he's "God" he can. I can see no logic in such way of thinking. Also, with so much evil in the Bible, the "all or nothing" way of belief, I cannot believe in it. The good in my heart can see how evil the Bible is, how many malevolent things are in it, and such evil I would never see fit to believe in, much less worship. Religion is based on magic, plain and simple. Parting oceans, making suns, making humans without sexx (extra x in case they censor it)? It is impossible, except in the Bible. Like talking cats and dogs, they are impossible, except in children's fairy tales. I want to base my life on a solid ground, on proven facts, not just the hopes that there is something that created everything, or in other words, God. No one will truly know if God is real or not until they die (and no, not those people who claim they died, saw God, and came back to life because that's bull****), but until then, I can base my opinion and conclusion on facts and common logic.

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God never created himself God has always been . Logically there had to be something that always existed for anything to exist because nothing can come from nothing. This is basic logic Nothing can come from Nothing therefore there must always have been something for everything to come from. Thus God is logical. It is you view that things came from nothing that is total lunacy.

Where is your proof that The universe could not have been created? you have none.

""Also, with so much evil in the Bible, the "all or nothing" way of belief, I cannot believe in it""

That is no proof that God does not exist.. Saying God is evil therefore God does not exist is no proof at all.. How illogical is that??? I don't even know why any logical person would bring any of that up.

"""Religion is based on magic, plain and simple. Parting oceans, making suns, making humans without sexx (extra x in case they censor it)? It is impossible, except in the Bible. Like talking cats and dogs, they are impossible, except in children's fairy tales."""

Again No proof... If a God exists and He is the creator then he can make all these things happen it's childs play for a God to do all these things. So thus you still have no proof to base your blind faith belief that God does not exist.

"""No one will truly know if God is real or not until they die"""

THEN STOP saying there is no God..... If you don't KNOW and have NO Proof that God does not exist then to say God does not exist as if you have proven it, is a LIE..... It's only a Blind Faith statement ....

""" but until then, I can base my opinion and conclusion on facts and common logic."""

As i have revealed there is no Logic to your conclusion you cannot come to a conclusion without irrefutable Proof... And you have None what so ever... You said it yourself ""No one will truly know if God is real or not until they die"" So Don't say God does not exist and belief in him is illogical WHEN you yourself Cannot prove his non existence and state that no one really knows.

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Your beginning statement is exactly why I do not believe because of the lack of logic: how has God "always been"? There is a beginning to everything, even if it's trillions, zillions of years from its present. So your statement which is supposed to be "logical" is really the exact opposite!
And to your "point" against my comment of evil in the Bible: I was not disproving it in that particular comment. Instead, I was showing my personal side on why I personally don't believe. If you had read closer, I specifically said afterwards that I could not believe in the Bible, or God, because of the evil in it, how I PERSONALLY could not believe in God, not the overall proof of why God is not real.
And you should practice what you preach: If I stop saying that there is no God, then you stop saying that there is one! You as well have no 100% proof that God or the Bible is factual. Our basis of each of our beliefs, or lack thereof, is equal. So we are basically just butting heads for the fun of it, although there will be no winner in this debate. But you already knew that, of course. :)
My whole thing on why I do not believe in God does not apply to everyone else's reason of why they don't believe, or vice-versa; it is merely my personal opinion and conclusions backed up by facts and theories that, in my own opinion, show that God is not real, or rather he is not needed for the creation of the universe and everything else.
Perhaps I shall ask the same question: why do you believe in God? What proves that God exists, in your opinion, besides the Bible? No quotes, no "because the Bible says so, the Bible is proof", give me something else, something with more of a logical backing to it. What is the basis of your belief?

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Your long pause of our debate has led me to infer that I have won this debate! Wow, I'm really just happy you have considered this debate and either stopped it because you realized your side of the argument was wrong, or you did not feel like standing up for your opinion any longer. I will always stand behind my atheism and try to open the eyes of a close-minded religious person. I appreciate your graceful bow out of the debate, well done. And your pause has also shown me your respect towards my detailed inquiries. So, until next time! :)

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No i simply decided to cease the discussion because it is foolish to persist with someone who is closed minded about God. And i understand your mindset about winning and losing a debate.. See that is a sign of pride and stubbornness.. not the desire to come to truth. Oh yes if you wish you can post a reply to this post and decide that because you posted last then you have some form of vain victory.. But for me discussions on God have never been about winning over an opponent. Such thinking id foolishness when it comes to talk on God. I give what i have to give until the other shows they are not interested. Then i move on.

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But when did I show that I was not interested? If anything,. I am exceedingly entertained by such a debate, and not my close-minded approach on God, but rather your close-minded thoughts of my original question that started this all- if murderers go to Heaven and good people go to Hell. My opinion to "god" is not close-minded, but rather the opposite. IF anything, it is very expanded with collected knowledge that I have sought out and discovered to form my opinion and belief, or lack thereof, about "god" in general. And who ever said it was unhealthy to have pride and stubbornness? Sure, I am, and I'm proud of it! And by your logic, you too are showing pride and stubbornness to this topic, not opening your mind to the REAL truth as well. :) I love winning, and yes, I'm very vain. But that makes a strong person.

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I have already explained in detail why there are no good people, But you once again put this forward in your last post """" if murderers go to Heaven and good people go to Hell""" See this proves that you have been closed minded and have not been reading my replies. I have clearly explained that Np Human is Good. therefore your question is irrelevant to Christianity. I have been showing love and patience in this topic. I do not get any benefit in giving this message and taking this time to talk with you or others. I do not get paid neither here nor in the afterlife for what i am doing here. I do what i do out of the desire to see others saved from the eternal lake of fire.

If you love winning and pride and vanity they are your weaknesses because they block you from gaining anything from a discussion. They cause you to have a closed mind to what ever the other person is saying.

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25 More Responses

No. Religion teaches nothing like that. It's not about how many good or bad deeds you do. It's about what is in your heart and if you are at least trying to live a Godly life.

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No one has the right to tell you where you are going.

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Yes, and yet how do people, and in the multiples, tell me this? These people consider themselves, as you say, "godly" people. How could people who were supposed to be raised with morals FROM RELIGION say things like this? Completely idiotic...

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Yeah those people are stupid and not even religion can help them lol

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According to some delusional fucktards yes.

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I like your name for those religious nuts. ;)

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I think God knows our true heart

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depends on your idea about those places...

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anyone that claims to know the thoughts of god is either delusional or evil ignore them <br />
always remember that all god asks is that u love mercy and do justly thats it no more no less

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yes, your going to hell. You did not kill anyone in Gods name. You are lazy. Lazy people burn for ever.

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Don't worry, I'll get a good tan. Plus, I find it hard to breathe in high altitudes, and heaven is supposed to be in the clouds so it wouldn't be good for my asthma anyways.

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Ah, your are definitely going to hell. Your one those people who always a puts a positive on something.

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Yes! I'm so happy you understand. Don't worry, maybe happiness will come you soon. And wisdom. That's when you'll figure out there's nothing to be afraid of in life and to enjoy it because guess what? There is no Heaven! God is dead, or rather, he was never alive.

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Depends on what religion you are referring to. If you take time to read, you wouldn't be confused.

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religion and morales are two separate things. just depends which is more important to you. do you give the homeless guy outside your church $10 and a blanket, or do you put $100 in the basket?

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Yes, but that isn't my question. People raised under "the word of God" are supposed to follow their life with morals and kind hearts. But telling someone they are going to Hell, while a murderer lives it up in Heaven is in no way moral or kind-hearted. It is an ignorant, close-minded, cold comment.

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you just answered your own question in your last sentence.

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If heaven and hell really do exist, I believe they are one in the same.

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What do you mean?

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Every one experiences things differently. One person could experience something and feel good about it, while another might not. I don't believe that there are pearly white gates up in the clouds in heaven, and fire and brimstone in hell. If you look at the world we live in, it is heaven and hell at the same time.

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