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So many people say that America is a Christian nation, and several luciferians inscripted 'in God we trust' on bills; but the real religion in America that other religions subscribe to is Individualism. While Hollywood acts like individualism is the apex of human evolution, it really is hurting people everywhere and making people more hateful, distrustful, disrespectful of others, discriminating, and judgmental. Is this really good for society as a whole?
DaSSRedemption DaSSRedemption 31-35, M 21 Answers Feb 8, 2013 in Hobbies

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I'd argue the opposite. Traditionally Americans WERE individualistic. The past couple decades have eroded that to the point where we aren't even the targets of advertising anymore. (We're the products)

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i kind of agree.. but I also think being individual and loving your own uniqueness is a great thing. we just need to have balance between, being ourselves AND recognizing that we are all together in this. Recognizing your wholeness as a PART in this gigantic system of life, while also recognizing the wholeness of the WHOLE. Everything is interdependent.

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There is a proper time for everything, I agree.

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Only when individualism is confused with greed just as you have just done.

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I know the difference between individualism and greed. Please consult your dictionary; I doubt you'll find even one word found in the synonyms of both 'individualism' and 'greed'.

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Well put.

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If you are so wise why do fail to understand it is greed ripping the U.S. apart?

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Think with me for a while cpgnatly. It's self-centeredness, not greed, that's ripping the U.S. apart:
1.) Individualism promotes and fosters self-centeredness/selfishness. Selfishness is instinctual, a survival instinct and often based on need over everything else. Greed, on the other hand, isn't based on survival or need but solely on wants/desires. Selfishness says, "I need", but greed says, "I want". It is people's perceived needs, not their wants, that motivate and sometimes ruin things (like relationships or a whole country), because where wants don't have to be fulfilled, needs do.
2.) Greed only seems to affect us when it comes from those who are rich or can afford more. If my future wife wants everything in the south section of Victoria's Secret at the mall, the word 'greed' wouldn't cross my mind nor the minds of most. (Words like "Honey, it's totally fine with me" might come out my mouth, but I wouldn't mean it!) Rather, I'd be thinking along the lines of words connected to 'selfish'. But if an apparently rich finance wanted the same thing, then I may be thinking 'greed'. Maybe you're wailing about the rich and the elite (the bankers, oil tycoons, etc.) who are ruining this country, but the truth is that among the common people, it isn't greed but selfishness (which the mindset of individualism promotes) that prevails and ruins this nation.
I wish I could put my thoughts together before writing them, but I'm on my phone so this will have to do.

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Maybe for you the word greed is too politically tainted. It more comes down to this: Most people in the U.S. (as witnessed by the number of lottery tickets sold) want to have money just given to them instead of putting value into the economy and meeting social responsibility. They want 20 cars in their garage and could care less if other people have one working one just to get to work.
In my mind, individualism is merely the concept that a person is valuable and important. Greed is in fact against individualism in the way I define it because a greedy person only worries about their own experience and does not consider how their actions affect others (a violation of saying the individual is important by not considering any individuals but themselves).
I think we are having a definition crisis that is preventing us from having a common language to discuss the root problem.

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You will notice that absurdly rich people get treated nicely. One example is ****** gives Arnold free vehicles. He's the last one that needs them for free but because of his fame, he gets charity. Not all people can be the person at the top but the person at the top is a function of what most people want. If people wanted respect for something other than self indulgence, the self indulgent would not lead us.

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Okay, I agree with what you're saying. I don't think that proper definitions should get in the way of discussion; I do believe it's often necessary to define things correctly when dealing with issues that negatively affect people. Greed feeds self; selfishness is taken from the word self. It's like talking about money and materialism. Which one is the root issue?Materialism is; money is the means to the end of acquiring 'materials'. Greed is the vehicle to satisfying selfishness with selfishness as the root. It's funny how no one likes a greedy person but most people are selfish and no one cares to dislike that. Greed is about getting, taking, obtaining, procuring outward things; selfishness is about satisfying inward things-- needs and wants. I guess greed gets the bad rap, and selfishness doesn't, because greed is outward and more observable while selfishness is inward and not nearly as observable. Moreover, they both work together as two sides to the same coin and so can be hard to distinguish from each other.
That said, I agree that society is generally under the rear naked choke of materialism (greed) and apathy towards others (selfishness). And yes, the individual is important and has worth. Looking at a self-centered society, however, I'm constantly surprised at the negative value and going price of the individual.

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What we claim to be good behavior we do not respect. Fact is, bad behavior is a much better short term strategy than good behavior. Good behavior only pays off in an infinite universe. In a finite universe, bad behavior can "get away with" taking more than it gives.

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Most people will be the same selfish-greedy specimen at the top, including people who hate the rich who are no better but literally can't afford to be jerks.
We get the leaders that are like us. We are selfish pretenders, so we get selfish pretenders. We can't pick good leaders if we aren't good ourselves.

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It's true that good behavior doesn't get much respect. However, we live in an infinite universe. Bad behavior in this universe will turn out to have been a ruse, a trap, a cruel lie saying you would get away with it.

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Yes, I agree evil is one of the worst strategies you could possess in an infinite universe. Unfortunately, there is no way to discover how horrid a choice it is until you deal with things after you die. Most people think death is the end and therefore reject the idea they have more to deal with after death. I find that mathematically foolish to bet on, but I can see where people would make that error.

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Mathematically, logically, it doesn't add up that life on this side is all there is. I think 'karma' has a way of finding individuals sooner or later.

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Karma doesn't work. JP Morgan and others led very self indulged lives despite their disdain for humanity. The long term effects of people like the Kings of England or France are not felt until later in the course of humanity after the wrong doers are long dead. It's more about having to deal with the mess when you face your next life. The probability of now is 100% (1 for the math types out there) if the universe is infinite. Now is very unlikely in a finite universe.

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By karma, I hoped to be speaking a language that everyone understands. I was really referring to the saying, "You reap what you sow"; and most of the time, it's after you die. So many people get away with doing wrong in this life, but they still have to answer. Somehow, we left the topic of individualism (i.e. self-centeredness and greed) far behind.

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We agreed on the subject after clearing up word definitions to my understanding. Also, I agree things like Karma and justice can exist in infinite universe context. The problem is they don't exist in finite universe context and most people bank on finite universe strategy.

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I can't see how "live and let live", the credo of individualism, could make people any more hateful, judgmental and discriminating than Christianity (or any other theocracy) could---and often has.

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As is oft the case, well said.

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I stopped reading at Luciferians.

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90% chance he doesn't know what Luciferians are, or why they would never put "In God We Trust" on money.

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it is a bit of an oxymoron. lol

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Unless you're a luciferian yourself, I'm willing bet that I know a lot more about them than you do. However, we all have the right to agree or disagree. This particular topic is about individualism, not luciferians.

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No, Not at all--I can't disagree strongly enough.<br />
It is the sheep mentality, and all the people that will only 'do as they're told' that ruined America.<br />
America was built on Individuals, and thinkers. Not sheep.......

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I agree with your disagreement. (See my reply to Tori.) The individualism you talk about is the type we need to displace the sheep mentality. We have been trained to think when we should feel (eg. when encountering someone in need of sympathy) and to feel when we should think (eg. 'conspiracy theories'). We've long lost the concept of 'all things in moderation' and 'everything in its season'.

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Since it was YOU who asked this Q, I am surprised and confused that you agree with me!
But, ok, thanks; glad we agree now (somehow?!)

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Since words are all we have to communicate with online, I try to choose my words: I said, "I agree with your disagreement". That means "I agree with you (as far as where you are coming from)" not necessarily "I agree with what you're saying".

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Isn't youneeda's disagreement the thing that he's saying? You can't agree with one and not the other. Odd semantics.

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Got it ! Have fun.

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that''s what I thought, extraC....! hence my confusion.Thanks. Let's drop it......

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Disagreement isn't always what you say but how you feel. I could see that youneeda was agreeable, so I agreed with that. I can agree with an agreeable person who disagrees with me, but I don't agree with disagreeable people who agree with me. If that doesn't make sense, feel free to blame our educational system for not teaching us think outside the box (i.e. to think with our hearts and not just our brains; and yes, there's a difference in thinking with 'the heart' and with 'the brain').

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Moderation is essential. Personal morality and life goals can;t be determined by anyone else, but at the same time, people have to be aware that they're held accountable by others.

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While I see it, there SHOULD be a balance between individualism and compliance.<br />
It is the blending of these traits that create a society, and without individualism you no longer have a society as there is no need to interact with others socially because everyone is only producing what is needed for the community. There is nothing beyond that as everyone would be "the same".

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Yep. Somehow, we have become backward without realizing it. We live more by instinct now, feeling when we are supposed to think and thinking when we are supposed to feel. In the same way, we isolate and are individualistic when we should be the opposite, then we are compliant when we should be individuals. Take a closer look and you'll see that this is what we have.

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Everything is cyclic and without those cycles there is no comparison. &gt; &gt; Many say that we are causing Global Warming, yet, they are discovering that a slight warming occurs just prior to an Ice Age. So, is it really Global Warming? Just a rhetorical question.

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well. . . that's a pretty complex question for this forum. It's true that too much individualism leads to social fragmentation. But I couldn't live in a society where individualism wasn't possible. Moderation is the key

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Maybe I should've said hyper-individualism. It's a form of individualism that makes people generally unhappy or unfulfilled with life.

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and isolated

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I'm not sure I agree. I think it's more a combination of a kind of existentialism (I need to be actualised), and materialism (the lure of the next fix that I can purchase to ward off the emptiness).

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Have to disagree. <br />
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Personal freedom and self respect are strengths not weaknesses. We go wrong when we confuse selfishness with individualism.

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Selfishness is a more fitting term, but most selfish people don't see themselves as such. Individualism is originally a good term, but the meaning has changed like the definition of terrorist has also changed. I'm asking this question and addressing the comments from the point of view of the 'new' meaning of individualism ('every man for himself' as a sign of superiority or being a better person), not the originally intended meaning.

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Meanings &amp; attitudes do change - Not always for the better.
It's fair to ask if people understand the values they say they believe in.

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It would be nice to see nationwide polls on the values of individuals and groups. A lot has changed under our noses (values, beliefs, attitudes, etc.) that we aren't aware of.

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too much induced narcissism is unhealthy and gadgety ways of us makes us more lonely than ever before

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If individualism is so bad, and if I'm gay, then I'm going to be subscribed to a lifetime of hate by people who DON'T believe in "individualism." Would that be alright by you?

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Ia gree it's SO messed up...if we want it to change we have to work together to deal with it AND we have to get rid of the Narcissists!

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Narcissism is a hard one to get rid of, but I agree that we should work together rather than cliques all the time and against each other.

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Individualism is hurting every one . Not just Americans. All around the world are infected by this disease. The sickness of the society is in your face when a 10 year old kid talks back to the parents in an offending way. Sadly that's the society we are in now.

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All around the world for sure. I'm talking about America because that's where I live and love.

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Yeah I know . You guys are more f**ked up than rest of the world.

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Oh I figure that out years ago and America has spread the the sickness to the world...

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I think I agree but could you give an example

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See my answer for the example

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Hi, Tori. Two examples:
1.) Individualism promoted in the negative: movies, TV, fashion, etc., keep telling people to be captains of their ships so to speak and to need no one. Angelina Jolie and others are used to model this for women. This individualism-is-where-happiness-is doesn't really help people, and the actors that promote it are just that: actors.
2.) Individualism discouraged when when it's the right thing: I think we all know about this. I went to Seattle, WA and everyone dresses the same there! You know this anti-individual mindset is in place when you can't dress, talk, desire differently from others without feeling like you don't belong.
I hope that answers your question for you.

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