God is Creator, man is created.<br />
Man is in the image of God, God is not in the image of man.<br />
Man is fallible, God is infallible.<br />
Free will of man depends on the Will of God, Will of God is independent.<br />
Creativity of man is relative, Command of God is absolute.<br />
God is Reality, man is utter nothingness.<br />
God is omniscient, man is ignorant...<br />
God tests man, judges man, blesses man, man free will is limited to the choice of obedience and disobedience. This divine quality places man on highesst tation over all other animals.<br />
Learning through Holy Books will answer to man all questions concerning God, man and their relation.

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Free will of man depends on the Will of God, Will of God is independent.Thats the point i am trying to make WILL OF GOD IS INDEPENDENT.Just because he wrote in the books there will be a day of reckoning in the future doesnt mean he has to honour the deal he can change his mind his will is independent.If i say to the cockroach in my house i will never kill you and decide no i think i will and stomp on him i am just exercising my will.If god does the same thing to humans there is no different.Why should he be bound by his own words?He can erase this galaxy from ever existing stop the big bang from happening as he is outside time.The books he wrote would not exist we would not exist and his promises would not exist so he didnt do anything wrong he is still perfect.

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God would not change His mind. Man's choice to be obedient or disobedient cannot go beyond His plan.
His judgment is far beyond man's imagination. It is not to destroy man, but to make man reflecting His image with greater glory. Man's free will is a high training, not a blind threat.
The eternal beauty of God's creation depends of His command, not on man's choice.

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God can grow tired of his plan and God himself can choose to end it.If God decides to change his mind it is still a perfect decision because he is God and he knows best.

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God is not tired, because He is the Omniscient and Omnipotent God.
Even earthly father is not tired with his children if he is really wise.

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Perfection on the first try... and Omniscience. (Knows how it's going to end, before it begins.) There is no reason to change... and any change would be away from perfection... AND Omnipotence, so if there is a change... then suddenly, that is the way it was all along... <br />
These are the questions that keep philosophers drinking the hard stuff..

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sounds like frank herbert's dune

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I think Muad'Dib let himself be killed because he was bored.

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yeah i think he knew he was a character in a sci fi novel that was going to be repeated with the same plot line ad infinitum so he made frank herbert write his death

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I think what you just said was xzactly the sub plot of Heinlein's "Number of the Beast".

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If god existed, wouldn't he have realized by now what a mess he made, and have cleaned it up already?

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By now.. and already.... how many different scenarios have played out to completion? Maybe all possibilities are playing out simultaneously.

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That sounds perfectly ridiculous. No one will never convince me that terminally ill children, or the death and suffering of so many innocent people for whatever reason, is part of some divine plan. You can believe whatever you like. I'm satisfied that it is up to us whether we keep humankind moving forward or not.

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Going by the Christian god (which is who I assume you are referring to), he made us in "his" image, then he gave us free will. How could he "logically" give us something he doesn't have a concept of?<br />
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I mean if you're gonna go on about some magical sky fairy at least be consistent about it.

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I dont think you get it.If he has free will he has the free will to change his mind.In the holy books he says there will be a day of judgement and there will be a heaven and hell.Cant he just decide one day out of his own free will that no one is worthy for his heaven and just do away with the lot of us?

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God probably transcends will (if he even exists).<br />
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Humans on the other hand have no other option but to have free will. Perfect irony.

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We are like kittens in the Lions mouth. Just relax and enjoy the ride.

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Do you think he should?

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Because He say's of Himself is He never lies.Just erasing everyone would make Him out to be a liar which He would never do.

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If he erased us from space and time if he stopped us from existing in the first place what lie has he made ?We never existed.

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He could. But it was more fun to just abandon us.

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If a god exists I prefer to think of him as a scientists that got bored with his experiment and just left it after he got the Nobel Prize. Abandon is such an ugly word...

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