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tjschira tjschira 22-25 8 Answers Nov 29, 2012 in Religion

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Islam - The Religion of Peace - and since 9/11 they have carried out over 19,956 ( that is in excess of NINETEEN THOUSAND, NINE HUNDRED & FIFTY SIX mutilated, dead bodies, for what? the religion of PEACE? ) deadly terror attacks to prove it. I'd rather be what you'd refer as red neck, right wing werterner ( & a republican ) kafir, than a Islamic nut who thinks the road to heaven is paved with dead bodies. you keep your 'religion of peace'.

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Tell me, how many civilians did we kill in Iraq? Afghanistan? Vietnam? Loas? Cambodia? How many Ranger School and School of the Americas graduates have helped perpetrate war crimes? You've got a hell of a moral highground going for you. We get to ELECT the governments that sanction this violence, they don't get to choose who claims their religion. We're a fu.ckton more accountable for what's done in the name of these United States than they have over what's done in the name of Islam. Chew on that, before you where your redneck title with such condescending pride.

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What country is that? Let me guess? Egypt? No, the Muslims have been burning Christian churches and murdering thousands. Kenya? No, two Obama brothers have been leading a war of genocide against non-Moslems. India? No, the Muslims attacked hotels and murdered hundreds. Indonesia? No, Muslims have been waging a terrorist war murdering thousands. Turkey? No, Infidels live in fear and many have been murdered. Libya? No, Muslim terrorists attacked the US embassy and murdered our Ambassador. US? Nope, Muslim terrorists keep attacking and killing. United Kingdom? No. Muslim terrorists attack and kill there too. I give up. Where?

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Now lets look at how Overly Manly White Men fare in this one, shall we? Not recently, a white man murdered a black boy because his music was "too loud". It wasn't too long ago when OMWM were buying black slaves or treating their wives like property. OMWM also have had a long, brutal history of stealing other people's land and trying to "colonize" the "savages". OWMN are famous for being selfish, injust and immoral. They spread disinformation about minorities, especially women, because they are afraid of losing their position of power in society. They want to rage war against any minority because anyone who is not an OMWM is not worthy of living, in their opinion. OMWM start protest to get the immigrants out of their (stolen) land, despite the fact that they themselves are immigrants and their countries would be **** without the immigrants. Immigrants built your railroads. It was the sweat, blood and tears of immigrants (and the natives) upon which your country continues to survive and thrive. Everywhere OMWM are in power, minorities live in fear for their lives and in fear of being stigmatized! PROUD TO NOT BE AN OVERLY MANLY WHITE MAN!!!!!!!!! :D

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Wherever OMWM go, oppression follows. History has proven again and again that they will stop at nothing to satisfy their thirst for power...and greed.

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I have never read a paragraph so utterly skewed, racist and ignorant of historical context before in my entire life. This disappoints me, righteouschica.

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I have never heard a Republican say that Islam and secularism never coexist. Also, that wouldn't pertain to you as an individual anyway.

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You have never heard a republican say Islam and secularism can't coexist... Go to the politics section click on my question about the US vs the UK, and read what LostinChicago has to say. Thats one example... From today... Or you can look at DozerDan's rantings... It's not hard to find if you keep your eyes open.

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Two people on an online forum do not make a pool large enough for you to make a broad claim about Republicans.

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Didn't say republicans, I said right wing people, but if you'd like me to clarify that I meant islamaphobes I would if I could. It's a subset, your right but a bigger one than I think you're admitting to yourself. Read what people are saying about Muslims who align on the right politically and you'll find that the prejudice is pretty wide spread.

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Again, right wingers..Right wingers are typically what "Republicans" are called. People are speaking due to what they have seen from the religion and the, for the most part, refusal to collectively speak out against the misconceptions of the religion claimed to be one that is peaceful.

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SilenceEvermore, I have NEVER met a republican who wasn't Islamophobic or anti-Arab.

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I'm not scared of Islam nor am I against Arabs. Nice to meet you :D

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Per the "I have never heard a republican say that Islam and secularism cannot coexist" comment, I invite you to read the newest addition to the convo. In that, you chose bad words and exaggerated to make the stance of those you tend to align with seem more legitimate. I worded the question poorly. But you HAVE to acknowledge the pervasiveness of this opinion within your party. It makes you unfit as a coalition to oversee foreign policy, despite the rationality of a few. Distance yourselves from that kind of binary islamaphobia or AT LEAST admitt that it's a problem among your ranks.

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I stated that I have not heard someone say "never can coexist." Republicans don't like the religion's teachings and those who decide to act on them in an extreme manner. How would you feel if Christians were the ones blowing themselves up in public places, then watching as the rest of Christianity remains, by and large, silent about it?

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Muslims HAVE spoken out about it it's just not particularly newsworthy. Turkey, Jordan, UAE, and Azerbijan all sent troops with us into Afghanistan with us after September 11th. Turkey currently has more troops there than Canada. Actions speak louder than words in my opinion.

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Sending troops does not equate to speaking out. It means that they believed it to be in their best interests regarding international relations to send troops as aid.

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And per the how would they feel comment, how do you think they feel when we ignore the aggressive acts of the Israelis AGAIN and AGAIN. Don't try to tell me that our approach doesn't suggest that we value the lives of Jews over the lives of Muslims. Because it absolutely does.

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The Hamas, the ones doing the attacking, are considered a terrorist organization by most of the international community due to their actions in the present and the past. We cannot side with people who specifically target children and areas of public gathering. Israel at least adheres, to its best abilities, to the rules of engagement and the Geneva Convention set forth by the UN.

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Israelis ADHERE to the rules of engagement?!? Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think more Israeli civilians are killed than Palestinian civilians? Really?

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I said they at least try to adhere, they do not target civilians. Hamas specifically targets civilians.

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Okay, I'm lost trying to follow your logic -- what does being right wing have to do with it? If anything, I would think that, particularly in Turkey, being right wing would make it more likely that you would expect Islam and secularism to coexist. Wasn't that Attaturk's main proposition -- a modern, secular society -- after all? And wouldn't he be considered rather right wing by today's standards??

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Right wing westerners

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Frankly, tjschira, many westerners, regardless of their politics, are rather ignorant about these things. Turkey has long been a model of secular Islam, but I'd bet a lot of people couldn't even locate it on a world map. Geography is rarely taught in school and, where I grew up, people even confused Austria and Australia. :-(

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Islam and secularism can coexist peacefully for the most part except in Islamic theocracies.<br />
Don't you mean "peacefully for the most part" or "mostly peacefully"?<br />
**I lean a little right.

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They coexist as peacefully as Christianity and secularism do in our country. Define that however you'd like.

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I don' know why a right winger would say something like that. There is relative peace between Islam and secularism in the USA and obviously France, England, Sweden, and so on.

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Puck, a theocracy would not be secular by definition. The whole concept of theocracy (Christian, Islamic, or otherwise) became outmoded during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, and it should stay in the history books where it belongs. Politicians are frankly bad enough without also having them be clerics.

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If there is secularism within a Theocracy there will be trouble for them at the very least.

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But Turkey didn't get that way without Ataturk who blasted whatever relics the Ottomans left, and built up a completely secular state structure, he even changed the entire alphabet

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True, but radical governmental shift is happening all around the islamic world now, the possibility fora successful balance exists. It is not an impossibility, as some have suggested. And Azerbaijan is also pretty secular, and almost exclusively Islamic.

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Azerbaijan on the other hand had a well developed state institution left behind by the Soviet Union. Most of these other countries right now were rotting under very corrupt regimes with stagnant state structures. In places like Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood filled a huge vacuum where the state failed, and that's a tough thing to change from practices that were normal for many generations. Now many of those same figures are shifting from a position of very strong soft power to a more official legal power. Disassociating those roles is a long process I am not saying it can't be done but it'll take decades to do it.

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The fact that the Soviets left behind a structure for secular states in the former soviet republics of Central Asia just goes to show you that Soviets were not all bad. A secular state is a requirement for any kind of a free society, in my opinion.

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Brooklyn?????

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Turkey, but it's true in neighborhoods of Brooklyn too come to mention it...

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Not really

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it's true anywhere people practice living their faith.....not just talk about it...

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Where do you live?

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Istanbul, Turkey. And it's fabulously modern, and almost homogenously Islamic. In restaurants They'll turn down the Kesha playing on the radio for midday prayer, but that's about the extent of it...

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