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Seriously people, open your damn eyes. Nobody there has ever gotten a fair trial or a chance to defend themselves. All we know is what the government tells us, and that's most certainly not enough to go off of.
TheRose202 TheRose202 18-21, F 12 Answers Jun 9 in Politics

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It's a frickin war! Taliban and Al Qada are BAD people who need to disappear. It's this kind of sissy attitude that is making this country the laughing stock of the world. People need to grow a pair and wake up and smell the coffee. There are bad people in the world that need to be stopped. These people that you are defending think of you as livestock and more unclean than dirt.

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As far as you've been told. That's all I really even need to say.

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No guess work no speculation. These are bad people. Relativism is destructive to national security.

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TheRose202: The problem is that you are listening to people who are not exactly objective or knowledgeable about what they are attempting to have you believe. You need to get the facts prior to making decisions.

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Yes, the asker strongly believes unreliable sources.

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Let me ask you. Can you say, beyond a reasonable doubt, that these people -- every single one of the thousands in Guantanamo Bay -- are terrorists? If not, then the fact that any are being held there is a travesty of justice until they are all tried for crimes against humanity. Just like Hitler was, just like Saddam Husein was. If they tried them, what's to stop them from trying Guantanamo Bay detainees?

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They are prisoners of war. We are at war with Islamofascism. If we try to stop fighting Islamofascism, Islamofascism will continue fighting us. If we refuse to fight back we are complete idiots and no longer deserve a country. PS- tHERE ARE ONLY 149 DETAINEES IN GUANTANAMO. YOU NEED TO READ UP ON WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

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Ugh, hundreds then. Either way, it's ****** up what's done to them. And how hard could it be to try 149 people? I'm not asking that they ******* swing the doors open and throw them at cowering conservatives to thin the herd, I'm asking that they be tried for what they're being accused of.

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Sorry for yelling! These people that you are defending consider you nothing but a potential possession unworthy of an education and more unclean than dirt. ( I know I said this before...) You need to read up on the Taliban's twisted version of Islam. You need to start keeping track of incidents like the beheading of 17 people for singing and dancing or the three teenage girls for allegedly playing with themselves, or any other number of DAILY atrocities committed by these and other Islamofascists.

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On any given day of any given month of any given year of any given decade you can check the last 3 days of Islamofascist activity and find something like thisl
2014.06.09 (Tuz Khormato, Iraq) - A suicide bomber massacres twenty-two innocents.
2014.06.08 (Taftan, Pakistan) - Nine women and a child are among thirty Shia pilgrims brutally murdered during a suicide attack by Jaish al-Islam on their hotel.
2014.06.08 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A suicide assault at an airport by ten pro-Sharia Fedayeen leaves eighteen others dead.
2014.06.07 (Mosul, Iraq) - Twenty-one local cops are kidnapped and executed by ISIL fundamentalists.
2014.06.06 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - Six people at a political rally are turned into paste by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2014.06.04 (Hillah, Iraq) - Jihadis bomb a hospital, killing mostly medical students.

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And that's terrible, but you're evading the topic. Can you say, beyond any reasonable doubt, that every single prisoner who is, or who ever has been, interred at Guantanamo Bay is part of this religious oppression?

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can you say that they are not? blindly believing liars is not a method of learning the truth. Rose202 strongly wants to believe liars. She is making a career of this rant. It would be removed on yahoo Answers, and it should be anywhere. Preaching false "gao pei" is an abuse of any forum of this type.

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I believe them before I believe you.

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So you're gonna tell me the US government hasn't repeatedly lied to its citizens? Or do you just trust them anyway?

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Yes, Rose and her sources have zero credibility.

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Based on past experiences in the government. They lied about the Japanese Internment camps as well, which I see as quite similar to Guantanamo, except that they weren't literally tortured. The government knowingly withheld important evidence in the Supremem Court case Korematsu v. United States. That's just one example, but it speaks volumes. They can justify any evil for the sake of "national security".

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I don't trust the Prez Obama and he wants everyone at Gitmo released , no matter what, like you.

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I don't want them all released. I want them to all go on trial so that they can be proven guilty or not guilty of what they're accused of.

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Wow , comparing the Japanese Internment camps to Guantanamo. How does interning whole families of a certain ethnic background compare to holding "enemy combatants " at Guantanamo ? Get the facts straight. Nuff said I'm outta here !

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Enemy combatants? How the **** do you know they're even combatants? They could be people from the streets of Pakistan for all we know, who were doing nothing but walking in the wrong place at the wrong time. Half of the people at Guantamamo could be innocent and we would never even know, because they don't get a trial.

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Cussing ? How unladylike . If I offended you .....my apology .As far as guilt or not it works both ways. I would rather err in caution than take a chance in death if I'm wrong. My opinion, be it right or wrong.

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"Ladylike" and "manly" are two entirely meaningless words given weight by stereotyping and generalising within our society. In other words, you're right, I am very unladylike :P

And what if we erred on the side of caution with everyone who's ever been accused of killing someone in the US? That would be a travesty of justice, so what makes this different?

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There is solid evidence, WE just aren't privey to it. Do not be so nieve as to actually believe the liberal spin in the "news". BTW don't believe the conservative spin either.

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They've never gotten a chance to defend themselves, though. No right to a fair trial, and simply because they're not from our country. If an American citizen got the same treatment people would be outraged.

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Americans have been similarly treated in forign lands. The government does nothing because they have a sovergn right to do so. Gitmo detainees are prisoners of war. They were combattants in a war that the enemy had no uniforms, therefore, all are combatents.

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Doesn't matter. All humans should have the same rights. The fact that our government doesn't uphold the rights this country claims to love so much says something.

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Soldiers caught on a battlefield do not have the same rights as someone robbing a 7 11. They can be held until the war is over with.

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Kool-Aid always taste good for the "I hate war" crowd. But the fact of life remains that bad people (from all sides) invade other lands for a myraid of reasons other than the animalistic (biologic) reason of food, territory or sex. In such an instance everyone has to be ready and willing to kill, imprison, detain, or annihilate the agressor. Disagree for the POLITICAL reasons we are involved, but not in the methods of warfare.

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I'm disagreeing for the humanist reasons. It would be one thing if we were simply detaining them. But we're not. They live in horrid conditions and are tortured and force-fed on a regular basis. That's ****** up.

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Also, it would be different if they were tried for war crimes and found guilty, but they aren't even tried. "Innocent until proven guilty" should apply to everyone, not just Americans. To think otherwise is arrogant and self-centered.

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Oh, and one last thing. How the hells are they the aggressor? We invaded their lands. We were the ones who gave them the weapons with which they now fight, actually. And yet we try and take the moral high ground saying we're paragons of freedom and democracy. It's bullshit, especially when there are men held at GTMO that completely do not belong there.

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Well people do not want to admit that 9-11 was a terrorist attack on America. So it goes.

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Give me a break. What tortured? Allowed to play soccer? Work out in a gym? Feed them food THEY want?

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They should be happy to be alive. In most wars, they would have been shot and left to die.

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Many have tried to kill themselves, actually. Some tried to starve themselves to death, only to be force fed.

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Its very easy to try to commit suicide when you know that your captors will stop it. Some may have attempted suicide, but most are very happy to be alive.

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That's one of the most illogical statements I've ever heard -.-

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Then I'll explain it to you. If you know that someone is going to stop you from harming yourself, you may threaten to do or partially do something that would harm yourself since you know that you will stopped. Many people each day "attempt" suicide knowing full well that death is not going to be the result.
The people at Gitmo are the enemy. They are alive for one reason. We are now using a capture vs kill mentality in fighting wars. In most circumstances they would have (and should have) been terminated. So, yes, they are happy to be alive.

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You're being deluded both by yourself and by the top dogs in the government. Read this: http://www.ccrjustice.org/files/Report_ReportOnTorture.pdf
And read the book "Inside the Wire".

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Even the Obama administration during Congressional testimony has referred to the five that were just released as "infamous and dangerous terrorists".

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Somehow, you seem to believe that those imprisoned during war have Constitutional Rights? The Center for Constitutional Rights is hardly an unbiased and objective source. Many of our soldiers and sailors live in worst conditions during training. So called "waterboarding" has been used to train many of our own Army, Marine and Navy personnel. Its scary, but hardly as torturous as the things that were done to our people captured in the middle east.
You have no understanding or experience regarding war or the military. War is not a video game or TV show, where the actors die painless deaths and get up to fight again. War is war.... nasty, horrible things go on. You enjoy the right to express your opinion here because of people who did those horrible nasty things protecting your country and your rights.

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Every human being ever should have rights, whether they're warriors, bakers, smiths, or otherwise. They should have the right to some sort of trial. They should have the right to defend themselves. I'm not talking about the Burgdall thing at all, and I don't think I've mentioned it once.

I would gladly die for any of my many causes. I do not demonise those soldiers fighting in the Middle East, for they are acting under orders and likely think that they're fighting for a good cause. And your "waterboarding" point lacks substance, since that's anti-torture training rather than true torture and each and every one of them agreed to it.
But clearly you're not going to break past your misconceptions, and quit making attacks on my person rather than seeing this objectively, so...

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1. You made the first attack on my person.
2. You believe that everyone has the right to some sort of trial. Does the soldier who is shot on the field of combat have the right to a trial? Did the guy has was killed when his vehicle struck an IED have the right to a trial? They certainly didn't Did the people who died on 9/11at the hands of some of the Gitmo detainees have the right to a trial? They certainly didn't get one. War is war. There is nothing civil about war.
3. Waterboarding as used in military training is not anti-torture training. Having been waterboarded does not in any way keep one from being tortured. If it is a horrible physical thing such as many believe then it is a horrible physical thing no matter how it is used. And agreeing to it makes no difference.
4. Its sad that you believe that you are prepared to give up your life for "any of (your) many causes". You have one thing that you truly own.... and that is your life. Since you are so opposed to the Gitmo situation, I suspect that you are preparing some kind organized action to physically free the detainees there. I expect to read any day now a report where you and a group of like thinkers have climbed the fences at Gitmo to free those you believe are being detained illegally. Its easy to say that you will "gladly" die for a cause... doing it is another thing. The thousands of Americans who died in the last 13 years in the middle east, unlike you, put their lives where their months were.

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I tried to get into the military a total of 3 times to change things from the inside, but every time it went nowhere, because I used to take meds for ADD 4 years ago. It's been determined that I don't even have ADD anymore, but still they won't call me back or do anything with my paperwork. So I have "put my life where my words were" but the military determined that wasn't good enough. And yes, all of those who have been killed should be used as evidence in a trial against any prisoners of war who can be proven guilty of such acts.

Another thing: I never once attacked you. I have stated that you're being deluded, but this is not an attack, it's a statement that rings true in all of society.
How is water boarding not anti-torture training? Of course it doesn't stop them from being tortured, to think otherwise would be silly. But it does prepare them if they were to get tortured, in order to not reveal anything to the enemy.

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1. Your "That's one of the most illogical statements I've ever heard -.-" statement was indeed an attack.
2. Did you really believe that by enlisting, you could "change things from the inside"? Now who is being delusional?
3. Attempting to enlist 3 times is hardly putting your life on the line for what you say you believe in. After all, you want to change the military.
4. I agree that we should not have ever opened the detainee center at Gitmo. We should have shot the detainees when we first encountered them... they are our professed enemies.
5. Do you know what "waterboarding" is? Do you know what physical pain it causes and how long that pain lasts?

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No, it wasn't.
Yes, I did. I would've risen through the ranks and then helped change things for the better from a leadership position.
Each enlistment attempt was riddled with trips to the recruiters, multiple times calling to ask for status updates, with no answer, multiple practice ASVABs. So I did try quite hard to get in. I even applied to the Naval Academy but I didn't have the most excellent grades in the world.
We should always kill enemies who attempt to kill us. However, it's not proven that anyone in there has ever killed a single soul or even attempted it, because no information is ever released and they're never tried. Honestly, even if the Taliban or Al Quaeda or whatever wanted to do anything to us in the US, they don't have the resources to pull it off, so everyone who's saying giving them a fair trial would make people panic are speaking BS. Don't remember if that was you, but someone said that.
Yes, I do. But the purpose of that training is to build resistance against waterboarding as a form of torture. I don't see where you're going with this.

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You don't even understand how the military works, do you. As an enlisted person, you have very little, if any chance to rise to a point where you could make any difference. A private or seaman doesn't get promoted to General or Admiral. Chances are that you would have pulled a "Bergdahl" and walked off your post as a deserter rather then have done your sworn duty. In your case the military seems to have done the right thing by rejecting your attempts to join.
The GITMO detainees were not captured because someone randomly found their names in a phone book. They were involved in terrorist training, organizing and recruiting, One does not have to actually pull the trigger to be involved in the death of another. US Servicemen were killed while capturing many of the terrorists at GITMO.
You have not bothered to answer any of my questions directly, so I am going to assume that what you say is what you believe, not what you know and understand. I do have one additional question for you to answer: Are you currently a full time college student?

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How have I not answered any of your questions directly? I just answered every one in order -.-
No, I'm not full time. I'm working two jobs to build up the money I need to even attend community college, at which I've already taken 2 classes.
Are you listening? I said I would rise up through the ranks. Ever heard of the "green to gold" system? Also, I would follow orders to the letter until I was the one giving those orders. That's the unfortunate reality of what I would need to do. And you still haven't directly responded to the fact that SERE training is anti-torture training and has nothing to do with the actual water boarding that happens in Guantanamo. BY THE WAY, the rest of the world has outlawed water boarding. The US is the only one who says it's okay, and it was illegal here until the Bush Administration too.

And you know, my point still stands against your insistence to the contrary. You have no solid proof that these people did /anything/ to support Islamic Radicalism. All you have to go by is the word of the government, which directly conflicts with multiple eye witness accounts and studies into the matter. They've also refused and stalled against Judicial Review of Guantanamo bay multiple times. Your point lacks any substance, you're just attacking me based on your own delusions given to you by our system. Wake up, dude.

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At some point you need to simply look at facts..... First, look at my ID... the "F" indicates that I am female... not a "dude". Second, your chances of rising from a recruit to Secretary of Defense is non-existant. ... and that is where to orders that would change anything originate.
At some point my may grow out of your fantasy world and enter the real world. Until then, attempt to learn all that you can by looking at reality. I'm ending this now.

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End your fantasy by doing some research and not eating up everything the media throws at you. The only media I /ever/ trust is NPR, because they appear to be nonbiased, but it seems like people believe anything they hear nowadays.

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But really you're the one evading the subject at hand, so yes, let's end this farce before you speak more falsities.

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Both PBS and NPR are extremely biased. Just look at the "face" time Obama and Hillary get compared to others. Your love of NPR explains your "pie in the sky" attitude. I'd bet that you still believe the "You can keep your doctor. You can keep your insurance" lie that NPR continually allowed to be repeated on its programing.

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BYE!!!!!

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Rose202 is the person who is actually deluded. she has no objectivity. her idea of research would fail her in any college course I have had. Scientists must be extremely objective, so Rose 202 does not begin to qualify. She needs to comprehend Real Research.

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I never assume anything I hear on the news is all there is to the story. I know there's the media's take on it, and there's the investigator's take on it. But the full and complete truth does not come out immediately.

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I can almost guarantee that this will be looked back at by people in the future as super ****** up. Just like the Japanese Internment camps in WWII.

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there are many dark stains in the history of mankind already; this won't be the last unfortunately.

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People in the future might just regret the fact that we didn't do the same thing we did in Manzanar.

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I will bet some or all of those released with 6 months they will be killing again.

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You haven't the evidence of one kill on any of their parts. And that's because they've never been tried for crimes of war or any other kind.

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Rose is another Michael Dukakis.

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Lol literally all you're doing is inanely spewing insults -.- Go home if you're gonna be stupid.

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I see Rose202 believes it is an insult to be compared to Michael Dukakis, but it is a valid comparison. I could also mention Norman Mailer who with his dumb pals worked hard for the release from prison of a Mr. Abbot who murdered a young waiter soon after his ill-advised release. before long, Mr Mailer was working for release of a cop-killer. Such people never learn. rose202, Norman mailer and Michael Dukakis would loose demons upon us.

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TheRose202 is making a career of this rant. On some websites, such ranting is not allowed. It should not be allowed on any off them. She formed a belief prematurely and has confirmation bias about it. such people never learn truths.

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So you're saying that one's freedom of speech (another value this country talks about holding dear) should be allowed only when it's convenient for you?

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You are the person I see who makes unfounded assumptions. What is your source of information? You need to open your own damned eyes. You need to really research the matter. That means looking at the total picture, not just leftist lies.

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Read the book "Inside the Wire: A Military Intelligence Soldier’s Eyewitness Account of Life at Guantanamo"

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And then you tell me who's blind here.

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One source means nothing. It can be biased, lying, etc. Real Research takes much more time than you are willing to give. You must try to look at all data on any given subject. One book and one website mean nothing when you should be looking at all arguments. You are certainly blind to truth. You formed a premature bia and seek to confirm it. Hysteria controls you, when Logic should be in control. I can hardly believe my mailbox was filled with your excuses for believing absurd 'gao pei". Some people want to believe such "gao pei", and the more absurd it is the better they like it.

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Yes, you are blind to any data that refutes your premature biases.

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Your mailbox? I never sent you a single message -.- and in any case, I've gone to the Library of Congress to research this. I've gone to local libraries and multiple websites to research this. Keep trying to tell me you know what you're talking about.

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TheRose202: Perhaps you should read the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution. It is very simple, there is no universal Freedom of Speech. The Constitution simply states that Congress shall make no law to limits speech. The amendment sates:"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." It simply doesn't provide for unlimited, unrestricted speech.

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I receive notifications from EP when anyone comments upon questions I have answered, and once again, my mailbox is filled with notifications that you have made more dumb replies to people answering this question. You obviously want to believe passionately one orr two strongly-biased dumb sources and refuse to see alternatives to this absurd "gao pei". You are incapable of learning much of anything. I am glad you cannot release prisoners to kill people, as Michael Dukakis and Norman mailer did.

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Like many people Americans are manipulated bafoons as a group, so evidence is not requiered ! If the newpapers, radio, tv, speaks it, Americans sware by it

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That appears to be the case -.-

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I think Rose is the person believing bad sources.

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I assume you'd be ok with them staying the night at your house??

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Nah, but I wouldn't be comfortable with anyone I don't know staying over at my house with the region I live in.

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In any case, your logic is flawed. It's a massive jump to say that because I want them to be tried for what they're accused of, I want them to stay at my house.

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They should be arrested for wearing those orange jump suits

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A crime agains fashion!

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Yep , I always knew they had grounds to keep the buggers locked up

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