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I have had discussions with some of these very sweet and intelligent women and I do feel respect for them as I feel they are choosing this lifestyle choice freely. I just cannot help but feel that they are involved with angry, controlling, and very mean men. They assert that they are happy, even blissful. Still i always feel sorry and sad for them. My own hubby does not assert authority over me (I'd like to see him try lol), and I find myself appreciating my hubby all the more. I mean no offence to anyone, just wondered if its just me that feels so bad for them.
gumshoejane2 gumshoejane2 36-40, F 31 Answers Nov 19, 2011

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I feel sorrier for the women who attempt to feel sorry for the ones enjoying their lives.

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I must agree with this!
I dominate women (and feel that I am pretty good at
doing it and understanding thier needs and the psychology behind the need.)
You don't need to feel sorry for people that are TRULY expressing and exploring thier needs!
The ones to feel sorry for are the women that do not have a choice and have fallen for an Alpha male with a lower brain cell count than testorone levels.
I feel I can rule myself out of the above>

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If you enjoy your life thats wonderful, it is your life, it is fleeting and precious so best to make the most of it.
My concern is with those individuals who feel ALL women SHOULD be obedient to their husbands, and that husbands SHOULD have authority over their wives.
There are no shoulds in life, folks have a right to live their lives freely, and with love and respect.

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In my opinion, a male with a low IQ isn't an alpha male...

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Oh I hope you're right lol.

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Jayne, sorry I'd it sounds like I am sticking my head right up your metaphorical ***, but some of writings leave me breathless with admiration, this being one of them. I entirely agree that life is fleeting, no trial run, no online manual..we have to make the most of it. But we also have a duty not to harm others who are trying to do the same. I will write a reply to your question which I think explores this further.

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The one who gives control is the one who has the most control. There are abusive relationships that are to be pitied. But there are also healthy dom/sub relationships that work because that's what the couple enjoys. Many subs would look at your relationship and be sad because you don't know the true joy of submission. I look at it like most other things. We all are who we are, and need what we need. Might not make sense to you, but then, it doesn't have to.

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Very well said and I do agree.

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Exactly!

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Quit analyzing and reducing the primitive, the sensual, and the profound to politically correct concepts. It can't be done. You have no idea how happy those women and men are, because you have not connected to the depths and don't have the tools to do so. Truly, it is none of your business what others do of their free will.

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Yeah, can't agree more! This is not something you can rationalize. There are no enough words to describe love and passion.

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Yeah I agree. The depth of understanding between two people involved in this way is tremendous

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Alex, what do you mean I don't have the tools to do so?

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Atleast we all understand the differance between submissiveness and abuse. Kind of like loyalty verses domestic violence. Loyalty is much better.

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crap

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I completely and emphatically disagree with you understandingus.
I would love for you to try that **** on me!

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You have missed the BEAUTY of the forest looking at 1 tree..... Obvisly u think about this a lot.... EVER WONDER WHY????? and most HUMAN experiances are well represented on a bell shaped curve....

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I agree with you 100%. What a miserable life, not being free. How depressing.

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I do not understand this "submission" stuff, and I do not want to understand it. There are many lifestyles that are perfectly fine for others, but I know I would not want to try. Each to his own, and may we all be happy.

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I still believe men are the head of the home and should support his family completely.

I respect men that have a beautiful family that he is in charge of and I honestly think I am happy as a stay at home mom.

Its not about control its about being a rock that holds the family up while the mom is the glue that holds the family together

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And don't feel sorry for me I am happy.
Having a strong husband doesn't mean he abuses his wife it simply mean he has expectations.
abuse is never okay and you need to understand the different.

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no i like submissiveness, it makes me more humble in my spirit and feel more feminine but i dont tolerate abuse

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How can a person feel sorry for anothers actions when they know they have choices.. some easy.. some hard. With police I pulled guys my size off of tiny women beating them bad.. and the woman coming after us with brooms telling us not to hurt the guy.. and her face being half swollen. Like a kicked dog or stockholm syndrome.. keep going back because they think nothing else is better

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No, I am right beside ya. A submissive woman doesn't have a husband but a master. And those type of marriages are abundant even now.

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Saying that you can define a D/s relationship is like saying you dont like chinese food BECUSE you tried "top ramen"... I have had relationships w many wemon in my life...including 1 that has totaled over 20 years... and others that lasted mear hours...*GRINZ* .... I can swere to one thing! That they all had one thing in comman....and that is: THEY WERE ALL UNIQUE AND DIFFRENT FROM EACH OTHER! Only a fool would say that every one had the same experiance twice.

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I don't feel sorry for sub wives, they have chosen to accept this role for whatever reason, and they have a right to do so. I do however feel sorry for their children. The daughters learn that as a female they are inferior to males, somehow less intelligent, less able to contribute to society and that they should capitulate to the primary male in the house and accept physical and emotional abuse. The sons, while no doubt being ruled by the fathers so not being given the opportunity to learn the skills of self determination feel that when they marry should take on the responsibility of HoH for them to be able to define themselves as a man. This indoctrination neednt be a concious effort by the parents, children learn from observation, and things learned early in childhood are incredibly difficult to 'unlearn' . Witness the fact that over 90% of those that are brought up in any particular religion from an early age remain life long devotees....suffer little children to come unto me.

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No I think daugters and sons learn from everyone around them includng religion. They take notice of there freinds too and the parents too. I think its not inferior if they like it

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The Dominant/submissive lifestyle, from what I have observed here on EP, seems to be one of selfishness and misplaced priorities by BOTH parties. These "needs" I continue to read about are NOT needs in actuality, but a perversion of a husband and wife relationship using "feel good" words such as "my needs' or "his/her needs". They are in fact immoral and distorted "WANTS" under the guise and deceit of a "healthy relationship".

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If you have never EXPERIANCED. Something how can you TRULY judge it????

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You have formed a very strong opinion for a person that has never experianced this... lol... I am kind and suportive of wemon... I have LITERALY placed myself between a moving vehicle and a girlfriend... in defence of her... yet you say that men like me are selfish....lmao... I demand respect and EARN that respect with my actions REPEATEADLY & CONSISTANTLY... yet you think that YOU CAN JUDGE what is in my heart and other men who thonk and act in a simalar mannar based on your NONEXASISTANT experiance...lol... you are a joke.

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Does a person have to experience everything there is to experience in order to form an opinion?

No. They do not.

My response above is the result of my understanding of right and wrong, of morality. And that morality, the limits and boundaries of right and wrong were not set by me, but by God Himself.

Take it up with Him...

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You got to see enough facts or listen enough to what people has got to say to form an informed opinion, you can't just make things up without listening to what people have got to say about it that does it. God never told you to condem anyone without listenin g first

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I've heard an awful lot VanillaExtract. What have I made up dear? Neither have I condemned anyone. But I HAVE shared God's expectations of those who follow him.

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to 777heaven - That's a very nasty thing to say about happy people who don't do harm to you, I just cant believe just how nasty people can be on EP. Thank God for the nice ones

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What is nasty? The part where I wrote about selfishness and misplaced priorities? Please explain how that was "nasty". I have made no effort to hurt anyone. If you believe this, then you misunderstand me.

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Yes you've made plenty of effeort to hurt and condenm people you cant even imagine what needs they got inside. You say they all's a pervert when their just happy together and hurt no one. What of they done to you? No I still think your very nasty going on about paople that way. And immoral too because you don't know anything about them but your calling them names.If you don't listen you never will understand, and once you understand you will stop calling people ofensive things

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VanillaExtract- You most definitely have misunderstood me. I condemn no one - pointing out that Dominant/Submissive behaviors are not Christlike is not condemnation-but it is telling it like it is. I realize it may be hard for many to hear and for that, I do sympathize. Nevertheless, I could not face my maker having kept quiet when I believe I should not.

I have called no one names. I HAVE used words that are, again, hard to hear. No one likes to be told they are wrong. Myself included. But it is those very words that ***** a person's God given conscience.... And that very process of thinking about why their conscience may question their behavior, is exactly what our Heavenly Father wants. An opportunity to change. To become better than we were. An opportunity to develop SELF-control and not allowing another person to control us. And this self control makes stronger individuals who realize that their previously declared "needs" are NOT needs, but base, carnality that cannot ever coincide with Godliness.

For three years I have "listened" to EPers attempt to justify D/s life. And the more time that goes by, the more strongly I feel how wrong this lifestyle choice is. It contradicts morality. It contradicts the best in humanity.

Think what you will of me. That is most definitely YOUR choice.

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You calling poeple selfish for being happy in there mariages and selves diferrent to your way. That is condeming. Base carnality that is condeming. ----There is no sin in the marrage bed ---- that is Christianity, and your very wicked and SINFUL to be telling people what God wants because that is blaphemy as well, taking the Lords name in vain

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??? Seriously??? (shaking head in amazement)

Ok...sure. Whatever anyone wants to do as long as they are happy is fine and dandy. Yeah...uh..NO.

WHY do you think God gave us scriptures? Why did he send prophets? It's because PEOPLE LOVED their sins. They were "fine and dandy" and HAPPY in their sins. They didn't WANT to be told that there was a better way, because that would mean they'd have to give up their sins to know Christ. It would require effort....change....work....SELF discipline.

Again VanillaExtract, I used words that are strong. Base carnality, selfishness. They are hard to hear. Nevertheless, they are true. If I took them back I'd be a liar.

Sex in and of itself is a wonderful thing. And indeed a gift from God... But it is when it is practiced within the bounds that HE has set, that is acceptable to Him.

Blasphemy???? You and I have a VERY different understanding of what Jesus Christ expects from those who follow Him. He is my Savior, my friend. And it just kills me when I think about all the things I've done and still do in my life that have caused Him so much pain. He gave EVERYTHING for me (and for you). It is precisely this reason that I cannot remain silent. My own silence would be salt in His wounds.

I stand by everything I've said here thus far V.E.

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It doesn't say in Scripture that YOU got the right to jugde and condemn ANYONE for finding happiness in mariage there own way or be rude about anyone whose not doing you harm and yes its blaphemy to speak for God. Rude and evil, non of your buiness

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It is very interesting that you have chosen two words that each have two different meanings. Judge and condemn. You appear to not understand that you use them interchangeably when they are not always interchangeable.

God expects ALL of those who profess to follow Him, to rightfully and accurately "judge" or discern between right and wrong. If you are a Christian then you know that this is the reason we are all here, correct? To choose right over wrong. To grow.

God has given ALL of us the ability to judge between right and wrong. Therefore, I AND you can "judge" what is right and what is wrong.

However we are not to judge - as in to condemn another. So which definition of "condemn" is that? It means we are not to sentence someone unrighteously and unlawfully.

I have sentenced no one. I cannot. That alone lies solely within the right of Jesus Christ. However the OTHER definition of "condemn", every person who calls themselves a Christian SHOULD "express complete disapproval", censure, chastize, rebuke, reprimand that which is in direct contradiction to God. Otherwise, what is the point of taking his name upon us? Of calling ourselves Christian?

Sometimes flat out rebuke is necessary. And discernment of when to reprimand is always necessary.

Even within the bounds of marriage, there is appropriate and inappropriate behavior. Judgment (discernment) is necessary here as well. How far is too far? Just because everyone is happy as a clam does NOT mean their behavior is in accordance with God.

And OFTEN, what you take for rude and nasty words, is just plain fact. And it is the facts that God will hold against us all on Judgement Day.

Peace to you VanillaExtract.

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Why feel sorry for women who choose to be submissive? As long as they are submissive to compassionate, respectful, caring men I don't see the conundrum. There is less chance of drama and confusion when there is no doubt as to who is in charge. How else would you want a household to be run; through democracy? Democracy doesn't work when there are equal numbers of people involved, unless you and your spouse are in agreement on everything. It is better to have specific roles assigned for the happiness of the family bc compromise only leads to both parties not getting what they want.

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(Is it ok to answer a question with a question?) :)

Hi Jane, It has been quite a while since you asked this question. I am wondering, after months of reading more about submissive wives, do you still feel sorry for them? Do you still feel that they are involved with angry, controlling, and very mean men? I am hoping that in the months that have passed you have been able to get a deeper look into the lives of some submissive wives and found a reason to feel differently.

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Hello there!
For the most part I am hopeful that many of these husbands are protective, loving and tender. I do believe that both men and women do tend towards tender and protective feelings for those they feel they are taking care of. Most men are immensely protective and heroic towards those they love most; namely wives and children. One need only to look at the Colorado shootings for evidence of this. Women have this fierce protective instinct also towards their children.
I do feel that in healthy D/s relationships, everyone gets their needs met. Men feel respected and valued and women feel loved and cherished.
I still believe that egalitarian relationships can also be happy. The D/s lifestyle isn't for everyone, but then again neither is egalitarianism and I guess as long as everyone is loved and respected, valued and cherished; man and woman then who am I to judge.

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Every one fits on a bell shaped curve...it is up to each person to define WHERE.

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Thank you for responding. I think that you have described the way men and women feel in healthy D/s relationships well. I'm glad that you have been able to see some positive aspects of these types of relationships. :)

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no -t bugs me-My roommate is nice and sweet and her husband doesn't think hes 'bad to her. For 8 mos I have llived with them-she always acts like she's in controll-no way. Makes dislike men

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Its OK. Sometomes the woman wears the pants. Thats all. Good luck to your hubby..

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No, if they choose to live that way then there is nothing to feel sorry about.

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I dont think there angry men maybe controleing but not mean. no need to feel sorry fo r women who are blisfull

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I am a dom... but you need to understand that a lot of people are abused... I have ruined a marrage by spending time w an abused woman every day for six weeks.... I gave her privet INTENSIVE lessons in jujitsu(self defense) she never laid a hand on him the entire time... I watched her take black eyes and bruises 1 to3 times a week ... then ... she got the confidance to defend herself when he was drunk. He took three a$$ kickings in 1 week. Then he moved out and never came back... I was aproched by her friend to hurt her abusive husband... she offered to pay me... I offered to teach her and she refused... I walked away and did not get involved... the one girl wanted to change... the othher girl wanted revenge but to stay... again I coment on how we all fit on bell shaped curves... some men use dd/s to run a healthy /happy family....other men use it to justify abuse...

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What i read its not disipline when you lose your temper and hit. What thy do is talk about it first so they both know what its for and know whats coming

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