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SwampyStables SwampyStables 46-50, M 9 Answers Mar 21 in Community

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Good idea. Recovery shouldn't be conditional on religious belief.

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Try it. Maybe some will be strong enough to get well without god. Personally, I don't believe in god, but I do believe in AA/NA. They seem to have found a formula that works.

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I use AA as a support group. I couldn't reconcile my atheism with their religiosity, and blamed myself for "not getting it" with every relapse (I first went to AA in1988!). I finally gave in and decided I could use AA as a support group and forget the religiosity. It works for me and I'm just over a year now.

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this story has no hero but quite a lot of heroin

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recovery with no higher-power?

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Yep. Works for me & I go to AA! The Big Book was written by an Oxford Group religious nut and the 12 steps are designed for you to bare your soul to a punishing and judgemental god. Outdated nonsense. But if you want an imaginary friend who you think takes a personal interest in your life then fine, the 12 Step Programme is for you.

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it's tricky though, philosophically - because the addict ready for recovery has to be ready to accept that all his previous reasoning has utterly failed him - can you see how the higher power comes in?

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c'mon - are you seriously saying you can't grasp what i'm getting at here? - and i never made any claims about specific religions - and i realise that any single individual on any single attempt at quitting will in probability fail whatever his counter-reasoning [the reasoning he uses to combat his addiction]

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It's nonsensical to place your recovery in the hands of a 'higher power' when you're an atheist. There is NO scientific evidence linking it to recovery. Using AA's own figures it has about the same success rate as CBT, and worryingly spontaneous recovery, where people just decide to stop using, has similar success rates. AA is useful as a support group and it is likely that those that 'recover' will do so with or without use of the 12 Steps. AA is a religious programme written by an Oxford Group religious nut. (Dr Bob was Oxford group too, as were the 'first 200'). 12 Steps has outlived all usefulness it may ever have had. I believe insurance companies in the US are starting to refuse payment for 12 Step Recovery centres - because it doesn't work!

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And I use the term 'religious nut' advisedly. I do not think all religious or spiritual people are nuts. Check out Oxford Group. The 12 Steps are specifically geared towards a Religious , punishing and judgemental god. Forget the 'spiritual' con-job it's religious. Various US Courts of Appeal have established that by the way.

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okay

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And anyone who speaks out against this drivel in a meeting is patronised or ostracised. Far too many people walk into a meeting, see god all over the walls and hear 'him' referred to throughout the meeting, and leave and never come back. It is interesting that you chose to join this discussion - you are evangelical about your beliefs, whatever they are. I asked my question to meet other atheists who feel similarly, not to have an unwinable argument with someone who has god in their lives. Your god is your business, my lack of one is mine. Your lack of reply to my last two posts speaks volumes.

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