Heard the bombs go off. I think their use of the word "army" is somewhat indicative of delusions of grandure though. How many women and children have they killed? I always thought it was odd that they never understood that but for the majority of people in the North wanting to be part of the UK and the democractic principle we'd happily be shot of the place. <br />
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It's a **** hole full of nasty, ignorant, culturally backward, rather brutish barbarians prone to blowing one another up in the gaps between drug dealing, gun running and knee capping each other and the celebrations of battles everyone else stopped caring about three hundred years ago. Not to mention an unproductive drain on the English economy. The Northern Irish prediliction for elevating what is essentially religiously motivated gang warfare to something akin to heroism doesn't change that although perhaps the conflict serves to create a sence of identity in a society otherwise devoid of culture.<br />
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The message of the British people to Northern Ireland has always been "Please by all means **** off into the North Atlantic and let us keep our money." The idea that killing women and children in shopping centres could futher motivate us to be rid of them is preposterous. The only problem is that we're a democracy and therefore we're bound by principle to observe the rights and wishes of the majority of the population.<br />
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Actually the other half of the problem has always been that no-one in their right mind in the South would ever agree to have them because the Protestants would be running around blowing people up trying to rejoin the UK so the southern governement, understandably, want to keep the nutters on the other side of the border.<br />
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Southern Ireland's alright though.

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they didnt kill women and children only english amry

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Bullshit to someone that wasn't there mate.

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Didn't they blow up the Queen's horses, and the entire Mountebatten family, among other things?

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Tallman... the IRA did kill women and children.... Omagh, Enniskillen, Warrington, Harrods, the disappeared

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Very interesting response. I suspect you got it straight from the editorial of such high brow news institutions as The Sun and the Daily Mail. To call what happened in Northern Ireland a religious war highlights a complete ignorance of the situation. Please can you explain to me the exact dispute over the religious texts that would make this religious. Furthermore A lot of the greatest Irish republican revolutionary where protestant. From Wolfetone to Roger Casement. Many Protestant Irish fought for the Republic in the Easter Rising of 1916. Even Edward Carson the shinning light of Unionism, and the person Ian Paisley bases himself on, was distraught at the partition of Ireland as he hoped to use it to stop home rule. Furthermore he believed that the whole of Ireland should have left the Union with Britain instead of separating the people of the island.
Perhaps an educated answer would have included the socio economic factors of the situation where just over one half of the population In Northern Ireland got gerrymandered by this “democracy” that you speak of. it was loaded heavily in favour of one side over the other. Because gerrymandering is exactly what democracy is about, right? Excluding freedoms and rights of one side over the other. A stealthy method of ethnic cleansing where nearly one half of the population had to leave the country in order to find work. Speaking of democratic principles and your own double standards in the use of the word. 75% of the Irish people voted in favour of an independent Ireland However the threat of violence from Unionist in the North Scuppered this. A fine case of the Tail wagging the dog don’t you think? Let me give you a hypothetical comparison I’m sure its one you will not find in the Daily Mail. There is a large population of Asians in Birmingham. Just say they got together and voted themselves out of England and formed their own country against the wishes of the rest of England. Using your twisted logic that would be fine.
I would also like to ask you what your definition of an “army” is. I think this will be interesting. Perhaps you are going tell me an “army” must have the capability to fly half way round the world and bomb the **** out of a couple million civilians in middle eastern countries. I know it is of such bravery that true hero’s are made. You know dropping bombs from the clouds on innocent women and children. Its a fair fight after all.
You are right in one thing. The IRA did kill women and children. So the loyalists and the British Army. I believe the term Britain uses these days for such acts in Iraq is 'collateral damage'. Doesn’t make you feel proud :)

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One more thing before I forget - tioch faidh ar la. have a nice day sir ....

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I doubt there are many Protestants in the IRA or Catholics in the UDA or LVF and for you to attempt to argue otherwise and thus against a religious component would be asinine and you know it. Fact is that when all this was settled the majority of people that wanted to be independent from the UK were and the majority of people that wanted to be in the UK were in the UK, everyone's wishes got repected more or less. Now my counter to your bullshit birmingham argument is this. There's a small population of Catholics in Northern Ireland, if they want to become Southern Irish what gives them the right to overrule the majority wishes? Using your twisted logic it would be fine and by extention it would be fine for the asians to do so in Birmingham against the will of the majority of the English population. Your own argument arguges against the people you're trying to support. My definition of an army would be a state sponsored and openly consituted professional force dedicated and trained for open warfare. Not five guys making bombs in a garage or kicking someones door in and knee capping someone in front of his wife and kids.

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It looks like he's got you Ketsan, you neglected to consider the colonisation of the North of Ireland during the 17th Century by lowland Scots and English farmers. You can't argue that 'a colony' in England demanding similar 'rights' can't be viewed in the same manner as Northern Ireland, you are the one contradicting yourself. (not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you, just that DeathofCuHullain's argument isn't contradicting itself whilst yours is)

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No a psychopathic response would be to condone people who blow people up, like you did. You went further and supported it, you are a person who likes people being killed, you are a psychopath.

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Yeah I can. That is the de facto politcal situation. NI and Birmingham are the sovereign territory of the UK by the will of the majority whatever the history.

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Not doing yourself any favours there Ketsan, what are you rambling on about? Northern Ireland isn't a state or a country it is an artificial construct just as would be the example of an Asian colony in Birmingham. If you say 'the colony' has no legitimacy then neither has Northern Ireland. You throw about 'sovereignty', what does that mean? not much in a UK context actually. Do you infer legitimacy from an electoral majority? if so then the example given of a group in society deciding they want to cede from the larger state either is or is not legitimate. You can't say that Northern Ireland is legitimate whilst saying the example of a democratically elected majority in any area of a larger country isn't. That has nothing to do with history just common sense, either you call it one way or the other. I'm going to bed anyhow... night all.

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Actually the status of Northern Ireland is complex, it's effectively a country as much as Scotland, Wales and England are. My argument is simple they're both groups of UK citizens inside the UK; both groups require the consent of the majority to leave and set up their own state or join another. Unless you're giving me the right to vote my house out of the UK and set up the PDR Ketsanland? Because of the demographics one day NI will join with Eire because there will be more Catholics than protestants and they'll vote for it, just like the scots may one day vote for independence. But at no time will the Asian population of Birmingham ever be large enough to vote themselves out of the UK.

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You doubt because you do not know what you are talking about. I am talking facts you are talking assumptions. I know that I would chew you up and spit you out on the subject of Irish history. However I have neither the time nor inclination to educate you on such matters. I liked the way you avoid every single point I made from gerrymandering to the fact that the conflict was not a wholly religious one like you claimed. I can tell you have little understanding or insight into what has happened in Ireland. I am amused that you think you do. In fact not only had the IRA quite a lot of Protestant members they had a lot of members born and raised in Scotland and England. They also had a few Jewish member like the first Prime Minister of Israel Chaim Herzog. You do realise that the IRA is an organisation that spans over 100 years? To be honest I find your ignorance comical. I laugh in your face. Do yourself a favour, next time you want to comment on something at least do the research that way you will not seem like a complete idiot regurgitating the foul mess you got from the sun newspaper. I will do you a favour now cause im nice like that. The republican movement in Ireland was founded by protestants guys like Henry Joy McCracken who died for the cause. Don’t assume things cause you are certainly not that smart. Try and talk in facts and stick to something that resembles the truth. I also noticed you like Christopher Hitchens. Go check what your beloved Hitchens said on the matter. I suspect it might knock him of his pedestal when you find out he wholly supported the Republican movement. Sir you are way out of your depth. Do yourself a favour and give up now.
As for small population of Catholics in Northern Ireland Its nearly half. Your ignorance makes me sick. I’m also sorry you were not able to comprehend the Birmingham analogy. That’s life I suppose, some things just go over are heads. I can tell that you are a ill informed ignoramus with an inflated sense of his own intelligence. Coming to an argument with no facts and a pocket full of assumptions.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2590023.stm heres a little source from the BBC about the population of Northern Ireland. Idiot.

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I know all that I just don't see it's relevance, it has no bearing on todays situation. I support the republican movement, as I said at the start I don't want NI to be part of the UK any more than the IRA does. The problem TODAY is that there are 1.1 million protestants and 600,000 Catholics and so until demographics take their course (the Catholic birth rate is much higher) we're stuck with NI.

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In fact truth be told I don't give a rats *** why one group of people in NI kill another group, be it religion, politics or a mix of either I just want the whole lot politically disconnected ASAP so that they can bomb each other to their hearts content.

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Ah your true colours are starting to shine through. Maybe Nick Griffin would be some one more suited for a person of your particular views and aspirations. I feel soiled after even communicating with you.

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You seem hell bend on making yourself seem like a complete fool. Of course you knew all that lol. why didn’t you just say so from the start instead of spouting a diatribe of lies and nonsense? I am not surprised you do not see the relevance as you are not to bright. Its clear you have have never lifted a book to inform yourself of the issuse. You could not even understand a very simple analogy I put before you. You want to be like Christopher Hitchens? Kinda like Johnny Vegas wanting to be Brad Pitt. Why don’t you set yourself a more realistic target. Lets say Screaming Lord Sutch of the Monster Raving Looney Party. Just for the record Your statistics about Northern Ireland are BS as well. The 2001 Census states that 53.1% of the Northern Irish population came from a Protestant background, 43.8% came from a Catholic background. That is more like 900000 to 700000. I can see you got your latest statistic the same place you get the rest of your information. Straight out of your ***.

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Right so I'm right that a majority of the population if asked at the present moment would vote to stay in the UK? Good. So my figures are accurate enough for my argument. Paramilitary groups are still divided down religious lines, what exactly have you disproved? Asians are a minority in England just like Catholics are a miniority in NI they don't get to vote themselves out, no matter what the history of the place is, pointing out that the Protestants technically are colonists and invaders and perhaps even illegal immigrants is probably accurate, but they're de facto running the place no differently from how the English run England. Like I said, I know all that, but it doesn't change the situation on the ground now. I understand where you're coming from, yeah 75% voted for a united independent ireland and I'd like for that to have happened. Reality is it didn't. Reality is that a new political entity called Northern Ireland emerged, reality is that the people that want that changed in Northern Ireland are a minority, reality is that they can't change that by violence, reality is that that only leaves the democratic process, reality is they don't have the numbers to achieve that. Reality is that the colonists won, it happens. So you can keep arguing based on what was in the first few decades of the last century or you can wake up and accept that none of that matters now. Your call.

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So to sum up "What's in your head Zombie?" It's not 1916, the political situation has radically changed. Nice ad hominems by the way, I'm not going to rise to them. Peace.

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I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy with the use of the word democracy considering how NI was found and for the majority of its existence it has been anything but democratic. The state like the electoral constituencies where heavily gerrymandered to create an undemocratic apartheid statelette. Can you understand this? What gives you the right to decide what democracy is?
An uneducated person completely ignorant of the situation in NI would say that the country is divided along religious lines. Any one that has half a brain cell can see that the problem is really a cultural one, Britishness v Irishness. Would you suggest that the war in Iraq is about Christians v Muslims or is it in reality about oil? Furthermore and to highlight your ignorance, Scotland which has a higher percentage of Protestants than England was never bombed by the IRA, can you comprehend that if it was a religious war as you keep suggesting, it would have been bombed. Can you understand what I am saying? I really hope so because your inability to grasp this point is becoming extremely tedious
Your cognitive inability to comprehend these facts seem in your mind at least to give you some sort of air of superiority which I find highly bemusing cause it has no basis in reality. You have contradicted yourself many times. Showed a complete inability to think outside the box and grasp very simple concepts, especially about what democracy is. Your talent for making yourself look foolish with assumptions and made up statistics is just profoundly stupid. If you cannot understand history in context of the situation of this 'reality' you are doomed to live out your life in ignorant bliss where in your mind you see your self as some debonair suave sophisticated intelligentsia. However I would have misgivings about even calling you a pseudo intellectual as these be gets the premise of you having an intellect at all.
You are extremely boring

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And what cultural differences are these?

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Lets be clear,if you ask someone in Nothern Ireland which culture they come from they say "Catholic" or "Protestant" most of the time. That's your cultural differences. That's it. Otherwise you're all part of the same culture, you all have Gaelic dervived surnames, you all listen to the same music, read the same books, watch the same TV, wear the same clothes, eat the same food and you all have dual nationality with the republic, and you all speak the same language with the same accent, so you're both British and you're both Irish no matter what you may imagine yourselves to be. You're even both Christians. The only difference between you that an outsider could ever detect is that one group calls themselves by the name of one branch of Christianity and another group calls itself by another group.

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Now I'm not saying there's a theological difference between you but there is a sense within you that the guys with the other religon are somehow different to the point where they need killing. It's religious even if it's purely imaginary.

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It may seem that way on a superficial level to someone without an understanding of the situation. I’m sure you have ate at McDonald, watched some American shows on TV listened to American bands. This does not make you American. And perhaps the people who describe themselves in religious terms while speaking with a foreigner do so in the knowledge that they are speaking in terms the outside will understand.
There is plenty of cultural difference in both communities from sports e.g. GAA and different national teams in football, language, traditions (Orange Order for example), history (even the history that is taught to both communities in school, school that for the most part are segregated), religion most obviously, public holidays 12th of July for example, both first and surnames can be used to distinguish a person cultural identity, even the way different communities pronounce letters of the alphabet Also television stations watched by both communities RTE for example, nationalist and unionist music. These are a few of the culture differences but by no means a comprehensive list.
To lump people into the category of senseless mindless sectarian bigots is patronising and derogatory to both communities. As you can see there is quite a lot of difference between both communities regardless of how superficial the similarities may seem.
I would also like to apologise about the way I spoke to you. It was uncivilised and uncalled for. I am sorry.

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you have went very quite

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22 More Responses

i haz heard of the IRA... i think they lost their way from the original intent of recovery of their stolen family heirlooms from the British back when they first began. there waz real soul and sound purpose behind the IRA back then... i don't know anymore about it, but that's what i feel.

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always fight imminent domain

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Yes, its a Russian name spelled in capital letters. Short from Irina

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Yes

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Yes been back and forward to Belfast, Monaghan and clones from the1970's until now I live in London and saw bombs and herd them, Forget the past look to the future now

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Yes, desperate people desperate times.... thank God things have moved on

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yes I have.

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Unfortunately.

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Yes

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LOL!<br />
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Born and breed in Derry here!

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I haven't! Anything special about them?

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They used to blow up innocent people.

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yeah kinda like what the british army does in iraq. but they would be in division 12 compared to the champions of the world at it.

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