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The town of Derby Line Vermont straddles the border between the USA and Canada. Litterally, a house may have a kitchen in Canada and a bedroom in the USA. Citizenship in the USA is granted to anyone born in USA territory, or anyone born of a parent who is a citizen. So, I wonder if in Derby Line, it is popular to give your child dual citizenship by having the baby in the other country? Or not? Would such thinking be sacriligious to the religion of Nationalism? I understand the root causes of Nationalism, the common defense, culture, etc., but situations like Derby Line make one think about the rise of Nationalism and its impact on the world. In the words of Ghandi, without a National Spirit there can be no Nation.
outofbiz outofbiz 36-40, F 7 Answers Jan 22, 2013 in Politics

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Yes. Not technically I guess, but they share many traits.<br />
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"The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" by Eric Hoffer -http://amzn.to/WHwxr3

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Oh good I'm not the only one who has an intellectual curiousity. Good pick by the way.

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That looks like a neat read.

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It is, it's also real short, I don't think it's over two hundred pages.

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love common men like Eric Hoffer, a longshoreman philosopher, from such humble roots and climbing from traumatic beginnings through the power of the written word. Like him, I too am a voracious reader, because my husband taught me to be that way, but Eric's life should be an inspiration to all. It should inspire us to connect with that "lumpy talent " that lives inside us all.

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It's a manifestation of the same impulse. Religion, politics, economics and the belief in the necessity of some sort of "state" all began at the same time roughly nine to ten thousand years ago. <br />
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They are deeply interconnected. If one "fails", or becomes so dysfunctional as to be useless, the rest will suffer. That is, everyone in that society will suffer as a result

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I am no historian but I think nationalism is a modern phenomena beginning with England, France and Spain, and their focus on mercantilism, producing competitive products, exporting and accumulating precious metals, along with exploiting colonies for the benefit of the mother Nation. There arose a belief system that people had a right to form their own independent nations which reached full bloom in the 18th and 19th centuries when Germany and Italy became Nations. In the USA it showed up first as a war for independence and next as Manifest Destiny, and reached its climax in the civil war fought to preserve the Nation. If it is not a religion, then it is something very close.

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Yes indeed, that is modern nationalism. Strictly speaking, nationalism is nothing more than the emotional impulse to "validate" ones attachment to what is essentially a legal construct, The State. contained within the state are the treaties and military alliances that define intercourse among nations. Also included, of course, are the economic parameters of influence, who gets to do business where, how extensively they will be allowed to do so and with whom, specifically, they shall be allowed to trade.
Military spheres of influence tend to follow colonial lines for European countries like France and England. Even Italy, in countries like Ethiopia.
The U.S. hasn't completely recovered from it's "need to contain communism" in its choice of allies, or completely rid itself of the illusion that we have a "right" to interfere in Central and South America.
If you wish to define "nationalism" strictly, as it is interpreted in the 21st century, then you really cannot go much further back than the 18th century.
If by "nationalism" you mean "love of country" you can go back to what is commonly regarded as the dawn of civilization.

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Good heavens, they don't let you indent your paragraphs in a reply here. How odd.

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No, nationalism is a political ideology. they may share similar goals, traits, and tactics, but ultimately they are dissimilar.

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Please elaborate. How are they dissimilar? How does Patriotic ferver differ from Religious ferver?

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You don't worship the nation, pray to the nation, nor is the leader seen as a god. All are necessary to be a religion.

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And yet, that same feeling of superiority and correctness permeates both. Religious Bigotry and National Bigotry, that absolute arrogant confidence in the rightness of your position, and that certainty that those who oppose you are less than you, beneath you, not your equals.

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Yet it is NOT a religion.

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But both exist, generally speaking, for the same reason, they are mechanisms of social control. Until the 19th century, "Church and State" were inseparable. The U.S. was a exception. France "officially" separated it's government and the Catholic Church in the 18th century but the Churches influence remained strong and undeniable.
For most of the Christian world, separation is mainly a matter of degree, but the dividing lines are clear. In the Islamic world, the church IS the state. There is no equivalent to that in western history.

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Never go full retard.

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If not, it is a mass psychosis

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He or she has the option to choose, or even be consider to be both nationalitites

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