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Tell this as if you were talking to someone who doesn't understand about God but wants to find out! Expect mocking from those who are of low intelligence concerning the evidence about God and we can use this to present the proof of God to others! Ignore those who can't accept truth, but only insult and swear as they are of little opinions anyway. Those who argue against God have less evidence against personal Testimony than any other form of proof that God exists, so share your story of your faith! It must be understood that if there existed real proof that God wasn't there,.....they would have found it long ago. Atheism and Skepticism base all arguments around : 1.) Hypocrites in churches and 2.) The Bible and what's contained within it, the problem this brings up is simple: where is the EXTERNAL PROOF they must have to prove it to everyone? They say WE can't use the bible to prove God but that's all they ever do to us is to USE THE BIBLE, sounds Hypocritical to me!
Ministerofblog Ministerofblog 51-55, M 16 Answers Dec 22, 2012 in Religion

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Your question was a good one, and might have generated a lot of what you were actually seeking by posting it, until you showed YOUR Testimony of how your belief in a God justifies being a sanctimonious arse to any who do not, as you put it, 'parrot' your own beliefs. How can I come to this conclusion..? Come, let us casually stroll through your insulting assault upon the innocent denizens of EPland together, and reach an understanding.<br />
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"Tell this as if you were talking to someone who doesn't understand about God but wants to find out!"<br />
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So, as this is worded, your appeal is to get folks to give their best sales pitch on how God saved them, and to tell it in such a way that they should automatically assume ignorance about God altogether in their reader. In marketing, we call this identifying your demographic, or target audience-- and you want yours uninformed and hungry for being told what to believe is true.<br />
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"Expect mocking from those who are of low intelligence concerning the evidence about God and we can use this to present the proof of God to others!"<br />
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So, let's load the "us versus them" mentality-- they must EXPECT mocking, and why shouldn't they-- you clearly insist that anyone who questions their interpretation of whatever experience they choose to share is "of low intelligence" concerning what you classify as "evidence". So, if someone chooses to interpret the experience in any other manner than the one that agrees with your own beliefs, they must be stupid on the topic. Now, I'm a little confused about the entire sentence taken in one complete chunk of information, because apparently, as you've written it, it is not the Testimony that is going to be presented as affirmation of your beliefs (we can get into your loose usage of "proof" later on-- to put it into the words of a certain Spaniard-- "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.") but in fact, it is the mocking of these Testimonies that are going "to present the proof of God to others!"<br />
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"Ignore those who can't accept truth, but only insult and swear as they are of little opinions anyway. Those who argue against God have less evidence against personal Testimony than any other form of proof that God exists, so share your story of your faith! It must be understood that if there existed real proof that God wasn't there,.....they would have found it long ago."<br />
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There's a fundamental flaw in these statements. Again, if they do not agree with you, they are "of little opinions anyway". You also fail Logic 101. See, there is no such thing as "real proof" of ANYTHING that isn't there. You are asking for evidence for the non-existence of something. The Giant Cosmic Teapot that exists in the Nth Dimension at the Center of the Universe, pouring Spirit Tea into all living things is unprovable, yet, by your own logic, MUST BE TRUE, since we cannot DISPROVE it. Same with UNICORNS, TITANS or any other fiction of lore.

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Now, let's set the record straight on Atheism and Skepticism, because... well, I don't tell you what you believe, and after seeing how you mangle up your own statements, I don't think you should be speaking on their behalf either, thanks.
"Atheism and Skepticism base all arguments around :
1.) Hypocrites in churches and
2.) The Bible and what's contained within it, the problem this brings up is simple: where is the EXTERNAL PROOF they must have to prove it to everyone? They say WE can't use the bible to prove God but that's all they ever do to us is to USE THE BIBLE, sounds Hypocritical to me!"
I'm confused. See, I was under the impression that skeptics simply question the validity of the claims and "evidence" as presented, and atheists-- well, they are just waiting on empirical data to prove the existence of ANY gods.
And again, we stumble into the flaws of your statements-- You seem to think atheists and skeptics won't allow you to use the Bible to "prove" God, but then they use it to argue against the proof, by pointing out every conflicting statement... and you deem this hypocritical. Except one problem-- the skeptics and atheists are insisting on CORRELATING evidence beyond "it says so in the Bible, so it MUST be true", meaning they aren't denying your "evidence" of the Bible-- they just want evidence OUTSIDE of the Bible, irrefutable facts, to lend credit to the fantastical and supernatural story within. So, no... I'm sorry, but just pointing to ONE source, which has been translated loosely several dozen times (in recent history alone) is NOT proof or evidence. If this was the case, congrats-- Frodo is the Savior of Mankind-- only, he didn't have to DIE to do it... because, you know... The Lord of the Rings trilogy SAYS ITS TRUE. Actually, that's a bad example, because we've gone and dug up fossil remains which could be used as SOLID evidence to support such a claim. Something that YOU, sir, and the rest of those "Parroting others [which] is a sign that someone doesn't do their own thinking" haven't been able to do in over 2000 years.
Good luck in your fishing for uneducated and impressionable people.

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Fcuck off will you? You're arguments make about as much sense as your religion. None whatsoever...

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What arguments I asked for Christians to tesify of God, it wasn't even directed at you, so I guess from your responce you don't believe in freedom to ask questions of Christians?

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I agree. Fark off. You are asking people to make up some story as there is NO GOD and never has been, or will be. You must have the mind of a 5 year old to fall for thos delusion. Go see a shrink.

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You have freedom to ask whatever you want and I have freedom to answer the way I want. You didn't just ask christians to testify of their god myth. You also chose to bring into question the arguments of atheists and skeptics. Not only did you assume what those main arguments (quite wrongly) are but you show a complete misunderstanding of what being an atheist or skeptic is. The central problem for people of faith is that you cannot truly understand the concept of what credible evidence is. Of what proof consists of. There is plenty of proof of god by your own standards but your standards are not unbiased or objective in anyway whatsoever. There is no transparent, unbiased or objective methodology to your reasoning or to the way you come to conclusions you do. It's all very personal and subjective and everyone can come to different conclusions than you do. Even within christianity itself there are 100's of different interpretations of the bible. As an skeptic and atheist I allow for anything to be possible but only believe in things for which there is credible evidence. There is no objective, credible evidence to support a belief in the existence of your particular god or any other. That is why in your religion you require faith. That is the reason for faith. Because faith is only required when there is a lack of evidence.

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Wow, so close but so far off! Do you even know what real faith is? Because FAITH as described in scripture is NOT the same faith as defined by those who fight God or that religion abuses, they are not one and the same. True biblical Faith is defined in Hebrews 11:1, is where ALL the questions of God and about God are answered completely, where PROOF is found. Faith CONTAINS the proof, First acceptance then the proof not the other way around. To many times I have seen definitions of Faith from Atheist web pages that are outright FALSEHOODS, distortions of fact that bring their minds rest in the short term but bring NOTHING to the table of debate. It is dishonest to FALSELY-DEFINE your enemies intentions to win a false argument for a short time!
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Now let's see it from the Amplified bible "NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, [a]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses]." If Atheists are going to get their facts right they must first stop defining Faith like this: "Faith means believing something without proper evidence to support it." This is the kind of dishonest debate that Atheists practice openly without the least bit of remorse. Shady word play and outright lie's define their tactics, now I would ask one simple question here, IF your stand upon your evidence is that shaky and unfounded that you must lie about the enemy you face, then I think you've already lost!

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'Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see'. Assurance about what we do not see? Accepting things that our senses can not see? So pretty much exactly as I described it. In the absence of credible evidence one must have faith to believe in god. You've just proven my point quite well. I shall use Hebrews 11:1 in future arguments. Thanks for that!
You see if god is omnipotent it would be incredibly easy for him I would think to just make us completely and utterly aware of his presence from the time we were born. Each and every human born with an inate knowledge of him. But for some reason he doesn't do this. So depending on where you are born will then determine what god myth you're most likely to believe in. If you're born in the US you're most likely to believe in some form of the Christ myth and if you are born in say Malaysia you are most likely to believe in some form of the Muhammed myth. And depending on where you are born any number of other supernatural myths that have been made into religions. There's nothing special about the christ myth that sets it apart from any other myth about some god out there. There's no more evidence for christ (as a divine being) as there is for Isis or Oden or Mars or any of the other gods that have been worshipped through the ages. None have any credible evidence. None whatsoever.

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Your on the wrong side of the evidence you seek, no human brain is not capable of seeing it without help from the God who created the world you seek answers from. That is why salvation through Christ was made available and once you obey he opens your eyes to the evidence from his viewpoint and then its clear!
Probably sounds crazy doesn't it? But its true in my personal experience on the night God revealed himself to me and my eyes were opened for the first time to see the answers to my questions.
You know your right about the myth thing though, religions of all kinds ARE FILLED with myths and legends. Its true that a lot of so-called Christians are hypocrites and liars, its also true that just as many skeptics and Atheists are hypocrites and liars as well so do we throw out all beliefs because of a few bad apples? I don't think so!
I'm willing to concede those ideas as true not because Atheism is right or wrong but simply because its a fact of life that Good has an evil counterpart always there to mess up the works because good people no matter what they believe do nothing but stand by and it happen! I am sorry if I came off wrong to you and other skeptics but I'm sincere if nothing else and I hope you all have a great holiday time even if you don't celebrate it like others do!

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The silliest thing to me though is when one group of deluded fools who believe in one set of myths try and claim another group of deluded fools and their myths aren't the right interpretation of the real myth. It's all so silly. You all think you're right. You carry on as though your interpretation is the only right one and then another so called christian will come along and claim their interpretation is the only right one. Or a muslim will claim theirs is the only right one. And on it goes. All of you deluded people think your myth is the right one. You'll only ever truly become enlightened when you open your eyes and see it's complete and utter rubbish. Religion and their myths had a place in history but in this day and age of scientific enlightenment it truly is utter stupidity to continue belief in these ancient myths. It only occurs because you wish to be part of a community. It's why you're a christian, because the people in your community are christians. If you were born in Saudi Arabia you'd now be extolling the virtues of islam to me rather than christianity. And I'd be telling you that you're just as deluded.

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Are you kidding me? I respect the beliefs of people who believe in a supreme being, but since i don't share your beliefs i have low intelligence, am ignorant and refuse to accept the truth? Gee, i'm sure that will attract a lot of new followers if that is how you speak of those who don't agree with your narrow interpretation of the world.

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No you MISREAD what I said, here it is again so you can understand what I said was not what you said!
"low intelligence concerning the evidence about God" NOT low intelligence period. In other words in over 37 years I have only spoken to two maybe three Atheists who had high intelligence ABOUT the things of God. Knowledge about God is usually LIMITED to what other Atheists or Skeptics have said (Parroting others is a sign that someone doesn't do their own thinking, and while they are intelligent concerning WHAT THEY BELIEVE they are simply unintelligent concerning the truth of God) Everyone has low intelligence concerning something in life, I know nothing about being a pilot for instance. So once again if you look for the wrong thing it jumps out at you regardless of the fact it wasn't there!

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Ok, i accept your meaning. I personally could not and will not try to prove there is or is not a god. I show compassion and kindness to my fellow human beings. I am a fierce defender of christian's right to their beliefs. I find it outrageous that in north america our society bends over backwards to accommodate every culture and religion but that of our own ancestors.
but until someone can prove that there is or is not a god, my opinion will stay the same. as for organized religion, i think it is a creation of men who wish to exercise control over others, primarily women, using interpretations of various "holy" books to support their arguments. look at the practices of various faiths and you will see that a common theme occurs, that being that men are superior and women are meant to be subservient. Islam, Judaism, Catholicism- to me, organized religion is not about any god, it is about someone using made up beliefs to exercise control over others.

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Amen to most of that, and you sure are free to believe what you want in America...that's the real point of freedom! Religion cannot be used to disprove God for that very reason....its MANMADE INVENTIONS that use bits a pieces of truth to create an edifice to worship.

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you are obviously a firm believer and i respect that.
I have come across some "christians" who have a bizarre way of following their god. they say the bible is god's word, but certain parts of it don't suit their needs so they will tell you "well it says this, but it really means that", or "in those days people did .....
in other words, the say they are following the bible, but they are really only following the parts that suit them. And i am not talking about individuals here, but whole religious denominations that corrupt the "word of god" you must have run into this type of "christian"
I have way more respect (although i might not agree with them) for those who say they are christians and follow the bible literally. good luck to all those who believe, may it bring you comfort

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I don't claim to know everything and I have come up from denominational teachings that I now reject because I came to the conclusion that ether God's word is God's word or its just like any other book. And if its God's word then it must be all true so what right does any man made institution have to change it or misuse it?
I'm not sure what's happened in your life to make you feel the way you do and quite frankly I don't need to, but I can tell you that not only is his word true absolutely and it can be trusted for the answers you and I need when we need them!
You are absolutely correct about SOME who have personal agendas concerning the bible, that is one thing that sickens me because of the fact I respect the bible so much. Not because of religious nonsense like worshipping the bible. But simple belief that what God said works for anyone who obeys what it says!
I believe it is religion that has ruined people's perceptions of God, taken his word apart and rearranged it to fit their perception of the world in order to gain power and riches over the people at the expense of their own souls. I just hope that you can one day find peace and know him as I do, BUT no forcing on that point. May you and yours have a happy Holiday season and I hope there's no hard feelings between us as I think you are a sincere person!

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your answer above was eloquent and intelligent. i certainly respect your opinions and i wish you all the best at this and every other time of the year. thanks for a great discussion. certainly food for thought. good luck.

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I thought this might get some good stuff...but your aggressive stance might have scared many off

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What aggression? I said not one thing aggressive, but there's is total aggression. I know of no Atheist worth their salt that would be afraid to mock the things of God. But if you mean confident of my position you might be right?

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no, that's not what I mean. Your post comes off angry and aggressive to me even if that was not your intention.

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No I expanded on the question to give a better understanding of how their testimony would be received here as is proved by their answers over and over again. I am in no way angry as they are, simply not afraid of the battle. I'm fully confident of my faith in God and have talked to many in this way and won them over in the end to at least be friends! Sorry if it looked different to you but that's not what it was.

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Not only was your post angry and aggressive, it was cruel, mean, insulting, and downright ignorant!
People like you are the reason why Christianity is in dramatic decline. If you are one of God's representatives, no thanks. Why would anyone want to worship such a horrible god as your behaviors make "Him" out to be?

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As a young child I watched Oral Roberts with my great grandmother. I even would send him some of my allowance. She would read from the bible every day. She practiced what she preached ........she never spoke ill of anyone. <br />
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After she died in her sleep, in that same chair she would read the bible in. I think that was Gods reward to her. <br />
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I, on the other hand.....had been molested since 5 by my father. Later impregnated by him, had an abortion just before the age of 13. <br />
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Ran away from home with cursing of God on my lips every day. I was beaten and pimped and raped over a period of 8 years following. <br />
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I should have been dead at least five times from beatings so severe and from drug over doses. <br />
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I was left to live, to meet and fall in love with the man I've spent 27 years with. <br />
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I'm no dummy. I know the bible is not where God is. And he's never been in any church as far as I'm concerned. <br />
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I am however blessed. I don't consider any of this coincidence. My life is still a struggle. I have myalgia, two seizure disorders and the body in the shape of a ninety year old in my 52 year age.

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Thank you for sharing, you've obviously had a tough life and I'll be praying for your relief from your illnesses. But one thing that was not true was your belief that the Bible is not where God can be found. That's the one place he is one with.

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It has been a rough one . As for the bible, I don't let myself be fooled easily. I know it was written by men who had other motives and wished to control the masses . False prophets. I also believe I am visited by angels. I also do not discount that we were visited in ancient times by aliens, and I believe God could be an alien.

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I refuse to ever argue about my beliefs in God, However, I will always stand my ground that God does exist...I am proof. I have been physically healed, mentally healed and emotionally healed. I was a train wreck, hated the world and everyone in it. I had depression, debilitating anxiety and was on so many meds. My marriage was falling apart and my kids were monsters! I figured I'd give God a so called "last ditch effort", I felt I had nothing to loose. I went to a Christian evangelical church. I just happened to attend the very night they had a healing service. I was physically healed that night in my left leg! And I left that night, feeling 100lbs lighter! I went regularly after that, and it didn't all happen over night, but here's where I'm at now. I'm happy, I have a wonderful marriage, My husband stopped drinking and my children are loving and amazing. I no longer suffer from depression or anxiety and am off all meds, and have been for years! I couldn't ask for more... I give all credit to God. Get this, one year, we were financially struggling badly. We prayed that God would provide food for us through that holiday season. My husband received a $100 grocery store card from work in his Christmas card...THEN within a 4 hour period, two more people in the company gave him THEIR $100 grocery store gift cards. THEN, our church gave us a check from an anonymous church member for $250 and another for $400 from the church directly!! They have taken our family under their wing and supported us amazingly. If it weren't for the love and grace of God, and his second chances and forgiveness ... I don't know where I'd be! Oh, and BTW.. the night of the healing service, I WATCHED a 4 year old deaf girl receive her hearing!!! There wasn't a dry eye in the entire building! And people say there is no God... I am forever grateful that they are wrong!

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That beats what Obama has done for anyone and many people worship him.

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None of that is proof of gods existence. It's your experience and you wish to interpret it that way but it's not proof. You don't understand the concept of proof if you think any of that shows it.

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Wow, you are so darn chipper. I see your posts all over EP and it's sad how nasty and negative you choose to be. So, yeah... the little girl receiving her hearing and MY own personal healing instantly in my left leg was just what??? It was GOD, that's what.

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Didn't say it was proof TO YOU but it is definate proof to me, what God did for me NO ONE could have done. My life proves that God exists because it would be impossible otherwise. There's lots of proof this is one kind.

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Having an unquenchable burning desire inside me for most of my life I desperately strove through many worldly achievements searching for something to soothe my pain. After exhausting efforts for possible remedies I turned to God and found the antidote I needed.

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And so the antidote was stupidity? Wow that's amazing!

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That is so totally uncalled for.

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Lookin for a fight huh? Have fun!!!

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I wish I had one to relate to you but, when I was younger and believed in christianity, I asked for his guidance on many occassions but never recieved it. I finally came to the conclusion that randomness had more to do with prayers being answered, than devine intervention did. I have n qualms with believers but I don't consider myself of low intelligence because I no longer believe in god, just inlightened.

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I always wish I had one too...like when people ask about miracles

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Not what I said, I plainly said this: "those who are of low intelligence concerning the evidence about God " NOT having low intelligence because you don't believe in God there are many very intelligent people who don't believe and who believe but BOTH can have low intelligence about the other....AGREED?

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I'm sure you must be talking about someone else's religion, not mine.

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something i'm learning to keep to myself

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I'm all for being religous if you want. But a locked mind results in nothing getting in - in other words empty. I had a enlightening experience once - God wasn't involved.

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So...share your "enlightening" exp.

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Why is my mind locked? If the proof exists for me it would be stupid to deny it just to please others beliefs wouldn't it? Your saying your mind isn't locked into disbelief?

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Right. But we both know in history who was most open to other people I hope: especially the lost - and as far as can tell he was pretty humble and not all that self-rightous as well. I don't deny anything much I see both sides - so maybe I'm locked into indecision.

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I miraculously found a George Carlin YouTube video in which he does his comedy routine stating that 'Religion is Bullshit.' PTL I'm saved!

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Fully agree! Religion is BS but since knowing about God has nothing to do with the silliness religion what's your point?

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Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more.

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Again this proves ONLY that religion is not proof that God is real it doesn't however rise to the level of disproving God. The bible is against religion that does those things because of the fact that it discourages belief.

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