Your question was a good one, and might have generated a lot of what you were actually seeking by posting it, until you showed YOUR Testimony of how your belief in a God justifies being a sanctimonious arse to any who do not, as you put it, 'parrot' your own beliefs. How can I come to this conclusion..? Come, let us casually stroll through your insulting assault upon the innocent denizens of EPland together, and reach an understanding.<br />
"Tell this as if you were talking to someone who doesn't understand about God but wants to find out!"<br />
So, as this is worded, your appeal is to get folks to give their best sales pitch on how God saved them, and to tell it in such a way that they should automatically assume ignorance about God altogether in their reader. In marketing, we call this identifying your demographic, or target audience-- and you want yours uninformed and hungry for being told what to believe is true.<br />
"Expect mocking from those who are of low intelligence concerning the evidence about God and we can use this to present the proof of God to others!"<br />
So, let's load the "us versus them" mentality-- they must EXPECT mocking, and why shouldn't they-- you clearly insist that anyone who questions their interpretation of whatever experience they choose to share is "of low intelligence" concerning what you classify as "evidence". So, if someone chooses to interpret the experience in any other manner than the one that agrees with your own beliefs, they must be stupid on the topic. Now, I'm a little confused about the entire sentence taken in one complete chunk of information, because apparently, as you've written it, it is not the Testimony that is going to be presented as affirmation of your beliefs (we can get into your loose usage of "proof" later on-- to put it into the words of a certain Spaniard-- "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.") but in fact, it is the mocking of these Testimonies that are going "to present the proof of God to others!"<br />
"Ignore those who can't accept truth, but only insult and swear as they are of little opinions anyway. Those who argue against God have less evidence against personal Testimony than any other form of proof that God exists, so share your story of your faith! It must be understood that if there existed real proof that God wasn't there,.....they would have found it long ago."<br />
There's a fundamental flaw in these statements. Again, if they do not agree with you, they are "of little opinions anyway". You also fail Logic 101. See, there is no such thing as "real proof" of ANYTHING that isn't there. You are asking for evidence for the non-existence of something. The Giant Cosmic Teapot that exists in the Nth Dimension at the Center of the Universe, pouring Spirit Tea into all living things is unprovable, yet, by your own logic, MUST BE TRUE, since we cannot DISPROVE it. Same with UNICORNS, TITANS or any other fiction of lore.
Now, let's set the record straight on Atheism and Skepticism, because... well, I don't tell you what you believe, and after seeing how you mangle up your own statements, I don't think you should be speaking on their behalf either, thanks.
"Atheism and Skepticism base all arguments around :
1.) Hypocrites in churches and
2.) The Bible and what's contained within it, the problem this brings up is simple: where is the EXTERNAL PROOF they must have to prove it to everyone? They say WE can't use the bible to prove God but that's all they ever do to us is to USE THE BIBLE, sounds Hypocritical to me!"
I'm confused. See, I was under the impression that skeptics simply question the validity of the claims and "evidence" as presented, and atheists-- well, they are just waiting on empirical data to prove the existence of ANY gods.
And again, we stumble into the flaws of your statements-- You seem to think atheists and skeptics won't allow you to use the Bible to "prove" God, but then they use it to argue against the proof, by pointing out every conflicting statement... and you deem this hypocritical. Except one problem-- the skeptics and atheists are insisting on CORRELATING evidence beyond "it says so in the Bible, so it MUST be true", meaning they aren't denying your "evidence" of the Bible-- they just want evidence OUTSIDE of the Bible, irrefutable facts, to lend credit to the fantastical and supernatural story within. So, no... I'm sorry, but just pointing to ONE source, which has been translated loosely several dozen times (in recent history alone) is NOT proof or evidence. If this was the case, congrats-- Frodo is the Savior of Mankind-- only, he didn't have to DIE to do it... because, you know... The Lord of the Rings trilogy SAYS ITS TRUE. Actually, that's a bad example, because we've gone and dug up fossil remains which could be used as SOLID evidence to support such a claim. Something that YOU, sir, and the rest of those "Parroting others [which] is a sign that someone doesn't do their own thinking" haven't been able to do in over 2000 years.
Good luck in your fishing for uneducated and impressionable people.
Fcuck off will you? You're arguments make about as much sense as your religion. None whatsoever...
I agree. Fark off. You are asking people to make up some story as there is NO GOD and never has been, or will be. You must have the mind of a 5 year old to fall for thos delusion. Go see a shrink.
You have freedom to ask whatever you want and I have freedom to answer the way I want. You didn't just ask christians to testify of their god myth. You also chose to bring into question the arguments of atheists and skeptics. Not only did you assume what those main arguments (quite wrongly) are but you show a complete misunderstanding of what being an atheist or skeptic is. The central problem for people of faith is that you cannot truly understand the concept of what credible evidence is. Of what proof consists of. There is plenty of proof of god by your own standards but your standards are not unbiased or objective in anyway whatsoever. There is no transparent, unbiased or objective methodology to your reasoning or to the way you come to conclusions you do. It's all very personal and subjective and everyone can come to different conclusions than you do. Even within christianity itself there are 100's of different interpretations of the bible. As an skeptic and atheist I allow for anything to be possible but only believe in things for which there is credible evidence. There is no objective, credible evidence to support a belief in the existence of your particular god or any other. That is why in your religion you require faith. That is the reason for faith. Because faith is only required when there is a lack of evidence.
'Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see'. Assurance about what we do not see? Accepting things that our senses can not see? So pretty much exactly as I described it. In the absence of credible evidence one must have faith to believe in god. You've just proven my point quite well. I shall use Hebrews 11:1 in future arguments. Thanks for that!
You see if god is omnipotent it would be incredibly easy for him I would think to just make us completely and utterly aware of his presence from the time we were born. Each and every human born with an inate knowledge of him. But for some reason he doesn't do this. So depending on where you are born will then determine what god myth you're most likely to believe in. If you're born in the US you're most likely to believe in some form of the Christ myth and if you are born in say Malaysia you are most likely to believe in some form of the Muhammed myth. And depending on where you are born any number of other supernatural myths that have been made into religions. There's nothing special about the christ myth that sets it apart from any other myth about some god out there. There's no more evidence for christ (as a divine being) as there is for Isis or Oden or Mars or any of the other gods that have been worshipped through the ages. None have any credible evidence. None whatsoever.
The silliest thing to me though is when one group of deluded fools who believe in one set of myths try and claim another group of deluded fools and their myths aren't the right interpretation of the real myth. It's all so silly. You all think you're right. You carry on as though your interpretation is the only right one and then another so called christian will come along and claim their interpretation is the only right one. Or a muslim will claim theirs is the only right one. And on it goes. All of you deluded people think your myth is the right one. You'll only ever truly become enlightened when you open your eyes and see it's complete and utter rubbish. Religion and their myths had a place in history but in this day and age of scientific enlightenment it truly is utter stupidity to continue belief in these ancient myths. It only occurs because you wish to be part of a community. It's why you're a christian, because the people in your community are christians. If you were born in Saudi Arabia you'd now be extolling the virtues of islam to me rather than christianity. And I'd be telling you that you're just as deluded.
Are you kidding me? I respect the beliefs of people who believe in a supreme being, but since i don't share your beliefs i have low intelligence, am ignorant and refuse to accept the truth? Gee, i'm sure that will attract a lot of new followers if that is how you speak of those who don't agree with your narrow interpretation of the world.
Ok, i accept your meaning. I personally could not and will not try to prove there is or is not a god. I show compassion and kindness to my fellow human beings. I am a fierce defender of christian's right to their beliefs. I find it outrageous that in north america our society bends over backwards to accommodate every culture and religion but that of our own ancestors.
but until someone can prove that there is or is not a god, my opinion will stay the same. as for organized religion, i think it is a creation of men who wish to exercise control over others, primarily women, using interpretations of various "holy" books to support their arguments. look at the practices of various faiths and you will see that a common theme occurs, that being that men are superior and women are meant to be subservient. Islam, Judaism, Catholicism- to me, organized religion is not about any god, it is about someone using made up beliefs to exercise control over others.
you are obviously a firm believer and i respect that.
I have come across some "christians" who have a bizarre way of following their god. they say the bible is god's word, but certain parts of it don't suit their needs so they will tell you "well it says this, but it really means that", or "in those days people did .....
in other words, the say they are following the bible, but they are really only following the parts that suit them. And i am not talking about individuals here, but whole religious denominations that corrupt the "word of god" you must have run into this type of "christian"
I have way more respect (although i might not agree with them) for those who say they are christians and follow the bible literally. good luck to all those who believe, may it bring you comfort
your answer above was eloquent and intelligent. i certainly respect your opinions and i wish you all the best at this and every other time of the year. thanks for a great discussion. certainly food for thought. good luck.
I thought this might get some good stuff...but your aggressive stance might have scared many off
no, that's not what I mean. Your post comes off angry and aggressive to me even if that was not your intention.
Not only was your post angry and aggressive, it was cruel, mean, insulting, and downright ignorant!
People like you are the reason why Christianity is in dramatic decline. If you are one of God's representatives, no thanks. Why would anyone want to worship such a horrible god as your behaviors make "Him" out to be?
As a young child I watched Oral Roberts with my great grandmother. I even would send him some of my allowance. She would read from the bible every day. She practiced what she preached ........she never spoke ill of anyone. <br />
After she died in her sleep, in that same chair she would read the bible in. I think that was Gods reward to her. <br />
I, on the other hand.....had been molested since 5 by my father. Later impregnated by him, had an abortion just before the age of 13. <br />
Ran away from home with cursing of God on my lips every day. I was beaten and pimped and raped over a period of 8 years following. <br />
I should have been dead at least five times from beatings so severe and from drug over doses. <br />
I was left to live, to meet and fall in love with the man I've spent 27 years with. <br />
I'm no dummy. I know the bible is not where God is. And he's never been in any church as far as I'm concerned. <br />
I am however blessed. I don't consider any of this coincidence. My life is still a struggle. I have myalgia, two seizure disorders and the body in the shape of a ninety year old in my 52 year age.
It has been a rough one . As for the bible, I don't let myself be fooled easily. I know it was written by men who had other motives and wished to control the masses . False prophets. I also believe I am visited by angels. I also do not discount that we were visited in ancient times by aliens, and I believe God could be an alien.
I refuse to ever argue about my beliefs in God, However, I will always stand my ground that God does exist...I am proof. I have been physically healed, mentally healed and emotionally healed. I was a train wreck, hated the world and everyone in it. I had depression, debilitating anxiety and was on so many meds. My marriage was falling apart and my kids were monsters! I figured I'd give God a so called "last ditch effort", I felt I had nothing to loose. I went to a Christian evangelical church. I just happened to attend the very night they had a healing service. I was physically healed that night in my left leg! And I left that night, feeling 100lbs lighter! I went regularly after that, and it didn't all happen over night, but here's where I'm at now. I'm happy, I have a wonderful marriage, My husband stopped drinking and my children are loving and amazing. I no longer suffer from depression or anxiety and am off all meds, and have been for years! I couldn't ask for more... I give all credit to God. Get this, one year, we were financially struggling badly. We prayed that God would provide food for us through that holiday season. My husband received a $100 grocery store card from work in his Christmas card...THEN within a 4 hour period, two more people in the company gave him THEIR $100 grocery store gift cards. THEN, our church gave us a check from an anonymous church member for $250 and another for $400 from the church directly!! They have taken our family under their wing and supported us amazingly. If it weren't for the love and grace of God, and his second chances and forgiveness ... I don't know where I'd be! Oh, and BTW.. the night of the healing service, I WATCHED a 4 year old deaf girl receive her hearing!!! There wasn't a dry eye in the entire building! And people say there is no God... I am forever grateful that they are wrong!
That beats what Obama has done for anyone and many people worship him.
None of that is proof of gods existence. It's your experience and you wish to interpret it that way but it's not proof. You don't understand the concept of proof if you think any of that shows it.
Wow, you are so darn chipper. I see your posts all over EP and it's sad how nasty and negative you choose to be. So, yeah... the little girl receiving her hearing and MY own personal healing instantly in my left leg was just what??? It was GOD, that's what.
Having an unquenchable burning desire inside me for most of my life I desperately strove through many worldly achievements searching for something to soothe my pain. After exhausting efforts for possible remedies I turned to God and found the antidote I needed.
And so the antidote was stupidity? Wow that's amazing!
That is so totally uncalled for.
Lookin for a fight huh? Have fun!!!
I wish I had one to relate to you but, when I was younger and believed in christianity, I asked for his guidance on many occassions but never recieved it. I finally came to the conclusion that randomness had more to do with prayers being answered, than devine intervention did. I have n qualms with believers but I don't consider myself of low intelligence because I no longer believe in god, just inlightened.
I always wish I had one too...like when people ask about miracles
I'm sure you must be talking about someone else's religion, not mine.
something i'm learning to keep to myself
I'm all for being religous if you want. But a locked mind results in nothing getting in - in other words empty. I had a enlightening experience once - God wasn't involved.
So...share your "enlightening" exp.
Right. But we both know in history who was most open to other people I hope: especially the lost - and as far as can tell he was pretty humble and not all that self-rightous as well. I don't deny anything much I see both sides - so maybe I'm locked into indecision.
I miraculously found a George Carlin YouTube video in which he does his comedy routine stating that 'Religion is Bullshit.' PTL I'm saved!
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more.