Because they aren't real women. The only real women on this planet are those who were born that way - true of men too.
That hurts. That really hurts. :'/
My comment wasn't intended to hurt anyone, just to be realistic. It's just hard to view a transgender person in the same way as a person who was born the sex the transgender person wishes to be.
Funny how people don't limit themselves by "birth" condition in most other areas but when it comes to someone's sex they want to make strict rules ....just to feel more in control and comfortable in this world. Fact is NONE of us are the same as we were born, and we constantly naturally change (including sexual development and decline in some aspects as we age) and in other ways by choice, such as with diet/exercise and surgery. But you want to make "sex" unchangeable while allowing having teeth straightened out, hair restored, tonsils removed, breasts enhanced, and infant boys circumcised at birth. Not to mention getting our hair cut, body waxes, makeup and wearing clothes ...all very 'un-natural" things from birth or by natural development. What a hypocrite!
Besides GENDER is separate from SEX, so when they are not in alignment then for the TS person making changes to their sex to be more in alignment with their body makes sense, and is the usual recommended course of treatment. And since as a SOCIETY we merely go by genital or medical intervention to assign a LEGAL sex then a person's biological aspects is just between them and their doctor ....not you with your bigotry and that person. So the LAW trumps your narrow birth-biological demands in real life!
Besides with hormone replacement much of the person's body is either feminized or masculinized to a large degree ...and that is a capacity that is naturally built into all of us!...it just takes the right hormones to "make it so!"
With your false claims it's being transphobic, just going by any other definition or requirement.
¨Besides with hormone replacement much of the person's body is either feminized or masculinized to a large degree ...and that is a capacity that is naturally built into all of us!...it just takes the right hormones to "make it so!"
No amount of hormones will change the fact that you have the DNA of a Man or Woman and no amount of hormones will make a Woman produce S P E R M or a Man produce a functioning Womb with eggs and the Menstrual cycle.
I can dress like Superman on halloween and act like him but I will never be him nomatter how deluded my fantasy is. Trans Women are not real Women they are merely imitating Women. Artificial vanilla flavor is not real vanilla imitation crab meat is not real crab meat and Trans Women are not real Women as much as you would like to believe such utter nonsense
So the problem is really IN YOUR HEAD ...not the other person who just happens to have a trans-past. So the solution is for you to grow and widen your narrow concepts and views of people! Many people who are around trans-persons for very long tend to forget that person was trans in anyway ...as they see the reality of that t-person's gender, through their gender expression. Without such experience you're stuck with whatever vague stereotypes promoted by the news and by whatever "sissy" norms-views you picked up while growing up, including whatever your parents drilled into your brain as you were being normatively socialized.
But views of the medical/psychological field and society are advancing so consider doing some growth yourself as being transgender becomes more and more open and socially acceptable!
What you are talking about is your idealised view, not the reality of the situation. I can't put it any better than my comment above. It is hard to see a transgender person as being the same as someone who was born that gender. Perhaps I'm the only person on the planet who sees it that way but I suspect not.
...the truth is the truth it never changes...a man is born a man n a woman is born a woman...u cant change that ...
It's not trans-sex, it's trans-gender. Gender and sex are not the same thing.
Gender is socially constructed. Sex is physiology.
People born and raised being the female sex are socialized a certain way.
People born and raised being the male sex are socialized another way.
Therefore to be a female gender means you are the way you are because that's how you were socialized to be.
Everyone has unique experiences, but males and females have unique experiences that are shared by others in their gender groups. I am not trans* but I would guess that trans* people have their own unique experiences that intersect with both female and male groups.
Therefore you can't just present female and then be accepted as female. To me that is like putting a feather in your hair and calling yourself American Indian just because "you feel like you are". It's appropriation of another's experiences and culture. If you want to feel what it's like to be female, go ahead and present that way, and you'll probably eventually understand what it's like to be female. But I don't think you can just say "you feel female and therefore you are".
Hey, I know this is a few years later, but if you get this, I just want to say that you are awesome and I know people are attacking you, but you're fighting for something and that's important. Valuing human rights over primitive, sexual norms and all that jazz. I'm pretty sure you know all the old arguments. Go you and keep fighting <3
Thank you LilChrissy!!! That was a great response.
LilChrissy said it very well. I also want to add people who convert from one religion to another. It's funny how you get people who go around trying to convert people from one religion to the other, yet say that you can't change your sex.
How about people who move from one state to another, or one city to another, or who choose a career path that's not what their parents approve of.
According to this logic, we should all:
1. Accept the religion we were assigned at birth. Born again Christians aren't real Christians.
2. Move back to your hometown, state, or country. US Citizens who were not born in the US aren't real US citizens then, right?
3. Take over the family business. If your father was an engineer and you want to become an artist, then you aren't a real artist because you were supposed to be an engineer by birth.
4. Throw out those treadmills and cancel your gym membership. Sorry, but we have to accept weighing 300 pounds, because anyone whose BMI is not considered to be obese isn't a "real healthy person", and is still really obese.
5. Move back into the hospital we were born in. Afterall, we need to accept our birth circumstances, right?
6. Stop brushing our teeth and eat lots of sugar and let our teeth rot. Because fillings or crowns aren't real teeth.
Apparently the only thing you're allowed to do by your logic is eat, eat everything in site, and eat lots of sugar. To gain weight and let your teeth rot. Because that is the natural thing to do. Wait, sounds a lot like my father, who opposes everything except being a workaholic and eating whatever I want.
LilChrissy is right, we are not the same person as the one were born as. None of us are. In fact, none of us are the same person we were yesterday, an hour ago, or even a few seconds ago. I am transgender and I transitioned a year and a half ago. I am not the same person as I was when I first started typing this post. I will be a different person once I hit the "Post" button and submit this post.
"ok brain, change my xy chromosomes to xx. I chose to be a female." damn i tried and it didnt work. Truth is, you can't change your sex. neither can a plastic surgeon. It is unchangable idk why people this it is. if it were then just by thought i could have a vagina. Its all in ur head. if u feel like ur a woman than get plastic surgery and bemone one but ur still gonna be man in women's clothing. Kinda like Caitlyn Jenner. all the real women saying she shouldnt have won woman of the year say she isnt a real woman to win that award. Why? because transgenered woman and real women face different judgement and discrimination.
Because they are Men.
Hmm because they are not?
And the simpleton award today goes to ....MxxGago!
Cause your not. Soz. Your still XY not XX
Were your genes tested at birth in order to assign you a sex? No!! Then stop trying to enforce unused criteria onto other people! But make a law that EVERYONE in the country and at birth MUST be DNA tested and they must go by that aspect and that alone ...then come back and demand that trans-persons go by such falsely applied criteria! BTW ..gene combinations go way beyond XX and XY and many people don't even know their's is not perfect! ...so you would force thousands of persons to become either the opposite sex or become some type of INTERSEX ....LOL!
So go ahead ...make your "DNA rules" law ...see how far that big mess would go!!
Because wishing does not make it so. You cannot change your sex. Like your race and ethnicity, your gender is determined prior to your birth. It is no different than being born Caucasian and "deciding" that you are a black person because you have always "felt" that you were black on the inside. The most one can ever do is take hormones, have extensive surgery and mimic the opposite sex. Sorry. Those options will only result in a facsimile of the desired sex, not the real deal. There is, of course the rare intersex person, but even they tend to be more one sex than the other.
It all comes down to how you define a real woman.<br />
I don't believe they are. I do believe they are real human beings with feelings and desires of being a woman. Some of them are even more womanly than many women, but when it comes down to the genetic level, they are still men. To me, a woman is XX and a man is XY. I'm not trying to be mean or sway anyone's views on the matter. It is just how I define a man and woman.
You said " when it comes down to the genetic level" ...oh! ...and when did you have your genes sex-tested? And your mother's? Or anyone in your extended family for the purpose of sex-determination? Never?? ..not surprised! It's amazing that haters like to make up rules that they have never been applied to themselves, nor would EVER be allowed to be forced onto them and their family.
Besides DNA is NOT the end-all be-all that people claim it is for how a person's body and mind turn out. Get real! ..medical science has shown us that all kinds of variations and flaws happen along the way from going from the intial DNA blue-prints to the final building-baby! And some variations are so common as to be quite normal! ...as with being gay or transgender, or Bisexual. ...or to have some interactions of genes that bring out a "recessive gene" characteristic in the person. Get real!...in society we DON'T USE DNA to make sex-assignments at birth (a few Intersex cases may use it as ONE factor) but not the rule. So stop trying to make up rules to prevent someone from getting a re-sex-assignment later on in life!!
Why does someone have to be an insecure "hater" simply because they disagree with the concept that anyone can be any sex they choose? No one hates you. We simply believe that trains women are not real women. Hey, I choose to be an elephant. I REALLY feel like an elephant in my soul. I can have a surgically added trunk and have my ears lengthened! I can get tusk implants! I can dye my skin grey and gain a lot of weight! I can move to Africa and roam around the Savanna. Will I then be a REAL elephant?
Haha indeed, at best you will be imitation Elephant
Outside genitalia are a expression and result of the XY or XX Chromosomes, that is why we dont need to test such DNA to confirm if a person is Male or Female unless the person appears intersex. you literally disprove your own statement in your reply to Oppa. We are not hating on Trans people for calling them not Real Women or Men, we are simply stating fact. Sort of like when I call imitation vanilla flavor not real vanilla or when some one dressed as superman and acting like superman is not really superman despite the fact they think they are
This is sad. It seems that transphobia goes beyond being obsessed over someone's genitals, or people believing that if you were raised as a man than you can never be a woman.
It's really sad that some people believe that chromosomes define gender. Not genitals, nor social upbringing, but chromosomes. My belief is that it's really our feelings and knowing who we are that defines us, not chromosomes, genitals, legal assignment at birth or social upbringing. I guess that many people don't have well-developed intuitions, along with an inherent lack of empathy.
if the Humanity was to colonize a new world and pair 100 Men with 100 Trans Women, the Human population of that world would go extinct in no time, want to know why? because Trans Women are not real Women they are merely Men imitating women by surgery and hormones. I can dress and act like superman all I want but I will never be Superman as much as I believe myself to be
What's a real woman? I sometimes have a feeling that trans-people try too hard to fit the cliché instead of just being themselves. It makes the whole thing look fake.
mmm let me think.
Seems you blew a fuse in your think-box. But for someone who feels they have the whole world figured out, as well as the complicated aspects of being a human being ...that is to be expected when something doesn't fit your narrow way of thinking!
Because they are not, if you believe that gender is mainly a social construct. As a woman, I was raised by society a certain way. Men are raised by society a different way. Whether men and boys reject that treatment or not, they are still awarded privilege. Even if there are some intersections between the oppression of women and the oppression of trans* people, their group experiences are unique from each other. I often see men who are trans* presenting as what I consider is a very male-oriented idea of what female is or looks like. Someone who was raised female simply presents as one's self, which is inherently female. I do think that if a boy is young enough when he transitions to presenting female, then that boy who is trans* could be socially a "real" female. But most of the time, these are post-pubescent men who present as their male idea of what it means to be female. And, men are usually dominant in our society and females are not. For example, the lead singer of the rock band Against Me! recently transitioned to presenting female and is quoted as saying, "However fierce our band was in the past, imagine me, six-foot-two, in heels, ******* screaming into someone's face." The singer is highlighting the fact that s/he will be using the previously gained dominance (gained by being male) and ironically twisting it to be a dominant female. The mention of heels and screaming into someone's face highlights the male idea of what a female should look like, or what would make a female sexy. Had the singer been raised female, the chances of her achieving that same level of success and being that dominant in it is a lot lower, and probably negligible given the statistical differences between male and female success in punk rock bands. In essence, males are raised with male privilege, and most of the time they don't really know what it's like to be socialized female from birth.
Most of us were raised as men and transitioned later on in life because society forced us to hide. We had no choice but to "man up" and stay in the closet until we were 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60, or later. If society were more accepting, most of us would have transitioned socially much younger. I hope the future generation of transgender women can transition in Kindergarten socially, take puberty blockers, and hormonally develop as women.
But what about the many of us who had no choice but to delay transition until later in life?
May I tell my story? I was raised as a male, and I transitioned last year, at the age of 34. I have that male programming. Although I was never macho. I never played sports. I was teased and called gay. I never participated in the military. I was never married nor fathered any children. I have never even been in a relationship until after I started my transition.
Honestly, I deep down inside would love nothing more than to lose all my male behaviors. Do you really think I enjoy the male behaviors I do have? I admit, I have some male behaviors and I hate them. I so badly want to be rid of them, and many of them are the subtler, harder to detect kind of male behaviors - like asking for things directly, or male mannerisms that I am slowly letting go of. I certainly will never be talking about dominating another human being. I don't scream into people's faces. I don't use my height (6 foot tall) to try to intimidate people. I was never even intimidating as a man. Every day I pray to God to please take away any learned male behavior.
You also forget that there are many relationships where the woman, who is supposedly supposed to be so submissive, walks all over and dominates her man, who is supposed to be so dominant. If you don't believe me, turn on the Lifetime channel and start watching Wifeswap. There are enough episodes of these marriages where the wife dominates over the husband. I knew one such couple in real life when I was growing up. Even my mom, who was born and raised female, and carried me and my two brothers, will vouge that the wife was incredibly dominant over her husband. My mom can testify that the wife behaved more like the stereotypical husband and was very abusive towards her husband. Oh, and the bitchy dominant wife was also a natural born female, who carried her own two children - she was not raised as a male. Her husband was a natural born male, raised with male privilege, and he couldn't exercise it in his marriage.
You also forget that some women do use their femininity to get their way. I don't at all believe it's the norm, but it does happen. My therapist, who was born a female, will testify on that one, that some women do use what God gave them to get ahead.
Can I give an analogy? People who converted to Christianity. I am one of them. I grew up atheist and without established religion. I converted to Christianity around the time I started my transition. Do you honestly believe that me, or any other person who converts from one religion to the other, cannot truly understand what it was like to be raised as a Christian? Do you believe that I have an atheist's view of what a Christian might be like. Do you really believe that I try to assert my will over God's will? Because this is learned atheist behavior. I certainly try to consider God in every decision I make.
Do you think it might be kinder to, instead of regarding transwomen as illegitimate women, to develop programs that can help to socialize us as women, and to break down learned male behaviors and attitudes? God does work miracles. I personally know a guy who served in the Marines, and believe me he is quite de-militarized from what you would expect a Marine to be. God can totally work to break down male behavior as God can work to break down Marine behavior. I don't know what your religious/spiritual beliefs are, and it's okay if you have different beliefs than me. Btw God is genderless to me.
Also, another question. Do you believe that men should act and behave a certain way? Is it okay for men to cry, or do you expect men to "man up" and not cry and "take it like a man?" Is it acceptable to you if men want to talk about their feelings, or do you expect men to keep quiet about their feelings? Do you expect men to act within societal norms of what a man should be like, or is it okay for a man to act more feminine, be more emotional, softer, and not dominant?
And finally, how do you feel about transgender people who go in the opposite direction? People born as women, but transition to be men?
Non-trans people are generally so insecure in their own genders that they need doctors to tell them who they are, or absence/presence of some piece of flesh instead of just being themselves and realizing there is no "real" men or women, anymore than fake men or women. Many of them completely rely on tests (e.g. chromosomes, though ironically they rarely get them tested) and urban myths/misconstrued scientific facts to uphold their narrow views. I think they don't see us as real because our realness and authenticity makes them question their own. Non-trans people who are comfortable in their bodies and genders usually are the ones who don't care, and see us for the gender we are. <br />
Trans women, vegetarian women, black women, queer women, old women...all these are women. Real women.
U have got to b kidding me??? U can dress how u wish...n wear all the Lanco'me u choose...u r born a man...n u will die a man...
What klaatu888 said one year and ten days ago...
"Because of their preconceived, socially conditioned 'beliefs'. "
They believe that people who were 16 without parts on their chest and born with parts going outward in their genital region cannot be women....which is not true.
Wishing and hoping (and hormones and surgery) do not make it so. Transpeople are surgically created facsimiles.
chromosone say so. If you ever go to gaol you'll find out
Because they aren't. In cases of transsexual people, it doesn't come down to gender, but to preference. If she was born a man and wants to live as a woman, it's a choice. Doesn't mean I don't accept that, but it is not the same.
They don't have a whom so as they can't reproduce. They can't breast feed. No matter how much a man modifies his body to appear female it dose not change the fact that he is a man at the chromosome level. Transgender's will always be bigger, faster, stronger, and no matter how feminized there behavior is affected by there environmental development from childhood there brain will always function like a man's. No amount of hormone therapy in the world can change this. Im not against people doing what they want to there body. I am however against social recognition of men becomeing women. Transgender's should not be allowed to participate in female sport's, get the same benefits as single mother's should they choose to adopt, or get the same benefits as a women in prison, or anything of the sort. Transgender's should always be legally recognized by there gender of birth.
How do you explain women who were assigned female at birth, yet
1. Have XY chromosomes
2. Can't get pregnant
3. Are 6 foot tall
4. Are physically strong
5. Have angular jawlines, or other masculine physical features
6. Who are in engineering
7. Have masculine personality qualities
Did you know that many models are 6 foot tall and have angular jawlines?
I have a few questions I want to ask you.
1. May I ask you, do you believe in feminism? Do you believe that women should be allowed to work in male dominated fields such as engineering? Or do you believe that women should be relegated to the kitchen, cooking & cleaning, barefoot & pregnant?
2. I am transgender so I guess you don't think I'm a real woman. I am also a Christian who was raised in an atheist household. Do you think I am not a real Christian?
3. Are you male or female?
4. Hypothetically, if tomorrow morning, you woke up, and suddenly found yourself in the body of the opposite sex, what would you do about it? Would you just accept your new life as the opposite sex, or try to change your body to be back to what you feel it should be?
5. Are you racist, homophobic, or sexist?
6. How do you feel about immigration? Should people only be allowed to carry citizenship of the country that matches their DNA?
Women like the ones you described are born this way... And it's rare. Intersex people and transgender people are not the same. It's not transphobic to state a biological fact. Most women "assigned females" can have children, no women "assigned males" can. I was "assigned" female at birth and would never claim to be a man trapped in a women's body or some nonsense such as having a 'male' brain as I have never been in a male body and don't know their 'struggle' but I can empathize with people with such a struggle and treat them like the human being they are as masculine women or feminine men because that is what they are.
Transwomen are real women in terms of their gender. Their sex, female/male is not female. They are to female as orange drink is to orange juice.
Because most people are too insecure with themselves to let someone else be happy and be who they are.
They're bigots, and they don't know who they're offending. Lots of these comments on here just plain stab me in the heart, and then it's twisting around like a sword.
biological women have x and y chromosomes. for a good article on this (and how it compared to the recent transracial issue) check out this article :http://wide-awake.kinja.com/is-it-just-me-or-have-other-women-wondered-about-this-1714939635
Because they are not the same thing. It trivializes both to lump them together. The world is not binary. Calling transwomen just plain "women" is force-fitting & inaccurate. It makes as much sense as handing someone a mango, then saying, "All fruit is either an apple, or an orange. Which one is this?" The proper response is not to just pick one or the other label, it is to say, "What the **** are you talking about? It isn't either one, it's its own thing. It's a mango, you idiot." And whether transwomen like it or not, biologically-born women deserve the right to hold exclusive ownership over the words "woman" & "female". For a group claiming to be so obsessed with respecting people's rights to their labels & identities, trans* people sure do seem to have no regard whatsoever for the rights of biologically-born men & women to own those labels.