Ok, now let's take away from those stats crimes committed with legally owned guns, then cut from that statistics related to gangs, then cut from that the ones that were stolen, and you'll have a ridiculously low percentage. Around 5% nationwide. So yes, take the guns away from the people who have criminal background checks and are traceable. That logic is flawless.
When you have hundreds of millions of guns to begin with,.including AK-47's etc,..well who cares if they are legal or not ?? The bullets still hurt just as much.
Gun control doesn't mean taking guns away from people who have completed criminal background checks. In fact, the most popular gun control proposal is to REQUIRE background checks on all gun sales (ie close gun show loop holes).
A gun ILLEGALLY PURCHASED. IF you commit/plan to commit a crime do you purchase a gun from the gun store, thus making yourself the documented owner of the weapon, thus making the gun shells easily traceable back to you? NO, you don't.
Neither dose a drunk driver.....ban cars or alcohol?
And along with that, there is the tiny print underneath making it even harder to legally purchase a firearm, or outright makes it nearly impossible.
No, you buy it from a gun show. That is why gun show loopholes should be closed.
"Existing gun laws apply just as much to gun shows as they do to any other place where guns are sold. Since 1938, persons selling firearms have been required to obtain a federal firearms license. If a dealer sells a gun from a storefront, from a room in his home or from a table at a gun show, the rules are exactly the same: he can get authorization from the FBI for the sale only after the FBI runs its "instant" background check (which often takes days to complete). As a result, firearms are the most severely regulated consumer product in the United States -- the only product for which FBI permission is required for every single sale. Denver congresswoman Diana DeGette says that 70 percent of guns used in crimes come from gun shows. The true figure is rather different, according to the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Justice. According to an NIJ study released in December 1997 ("Homicide in Eight U.S. Cities," a report that covers much more than homicide), only 2 percent of criminal guns come from gun shows. At the most recent meeting of the American Society of Criminology, a study of youthful offenders in Michigan found that only 3 percent of the youths in the study had acquired their last handgun from a gun show. (Of course some criminal gun acquisition at gun shows is perpetrated by "straw purchasers" who are legal gun buyers acting as surrogates for the individual who wants the gun. Straw purchases have been federal felonies since 1968."
The argument about cars or drunks is just so lame and irrelevant to guns..Mind-boggling non-logic does nothing to convince a sensible person.
Otherwise why don't they send drunk drivers to go and fight the wars ?? (rolls eyes)
That is for dealers at gun shows. If you are a casual gun seller, federal law does not require you to perform a criminal background check. You don't even know what you are against. Get a clue.
Casual? What do you mean casual? If you're selling at a gun show you are REQUIRED to have a license to sell. If you are selling to your brother, not at a show and such, then you don't. Otherwise you REQUIRE a license to sell a gun at a gun show, which means that you are REQUIRED to background check whoever you are selling to. "Such checks are required when buying a gun from a federally licensed dealer." Now go re-read my post, all dealers at the show, in order to sell, must be federally licensed. Look at yourself if you're looking for people who need a clue. The only individuals who do not perform those background checks are the straw man sellers, and that is a felony.
From the ATF: NON-LICENSED RESIDENTS OF THIS STATE:
MAY acquire long guns and handguns from FFLs licensed in this state.
MAY dispose of firearms to any FFL.
MAY acquire from and dispose of personal firearms to non-licensed residents of this state.
CANNOT acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed resident of any other state.
So licensed people can sell to unlicensed? That doesn't negate what I was saying.
It says that unlicensed people (people who do not have a license to sell guns) can sell guns to other unlicensed residents of the state.
No. It says any Federally licensed individual may sell to unlicensed and any unlicensed individual may sell to licensed. Either way, Licensed people selling to unlicensed - background check. Unlicensed selling to licensed - background check.
"MAY acquire from and dispose of personal firearms to non-licensed residents of this state." What do you think that that means?
That doesn't mean that the individual is not licensed. It means the individual is not licensed in whatever state you are referencing. And what state is that?
Those are guidelines that apply to all states, the ATF doesn't have guidelines for individual states. The reason it says "this state" is so that it applies to whatever state the gun show happens to be in. And, "non-licensed resident of the state" means a person who isn't licensed to sell guns and is a resident of the state the gun show is in. The ATF doesn't concern itself with state laws, it lets the states take care of that. Once again, get a clue.
I see. The aforementioned stats still stand and I admit to being wrong on that count. So, go shove it :)
I can't see why not, as I said, the statistics support what I have been stating. Rarely, do people who purchase guns legally commit crimes with the guns they purchase.
True, but over 60% of the people who buy guns legally have them stolen and used in crimes or sold on the black market. No one's saying that legal and responsible gun owners go on rampages, what we're saying is that their inattention and carelessness about storing the weapons secretly is what gets them stolen. Where they will be used in crimes.
Did you miss the stats I showed you before. As per the FBI statistics - 11 out of 13 guns involved in crimes are not legally purchased.
Because it has become an emotional doctrine in the US. It was very easy in Australia. We haven't had a major shooting since we did it in the nineties.
Guns don't kill people? Harder to go on a mass killing spree with a knife.
Precisely..Watching American TV tonight showed exactly how many people can be shot in an instant ,by anyone willing to pull a simple trigger..So much gun violence promoted by Hollywood..They also love car chases but not many people end up dead in one second.
I'm beginning to think they deserve everything they get.
really?? hmmm, ted bundy,dahmer, zodiac killers,green river killer,no guns envolved, the list is endless...maybe we should ban all knives also?
Sorry douwant2rock - you serial killers killed one at a time, not 5, 10, 20 or more that can be done with a gun. If you can't follow simple logic, don't try to debate.
gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, but it does seem that the USA is plagued with violence. I blame Dr. Benjamin Spock for starters. Gun crimes are not being committed by people who simply want to protect their home and family. They are being committed by criminals. Just look at the demographic and the motives. Gun ownership is a wise choice for people in some areas. It's a necessary evil. The problem is not gun ownership, but who owns the guns.
I guess it depends on the source of the stats.
You should only be using the Uniform Crime index, it's the national crime database that all states report to on crimes and it's released annually. They are all available online most from 1960-2010. Take a look it's an eye opener.
from 2011 to 2012 , as I said, gun crimes decreased in the majority of states according to FBI uniform crime reports
People who are set on it will always find a way to get their mitts on guns, just like addicts will always find a way to get hold of drugs.
In Australia,.in my town,..if we all owned guns,..there would be so many dead people each week...No shortage of crims and nutters here...
How about locking people up for life if they have an illegal gun or if they sell one illegally ? Why are we so against putting people away for a very long time ? We have plenty of room to build more prisons here but we always let the guilty out too early . I don't think we should waste anytime trying to reform prisoners. Guns aren't the problem its the losers using them. If that idiot in Colorado couldn't get his hands on any guns then he would have driven his car into the crowd or blew something up to get noticed . Anyone trying to take away guns from honest law abiding Americans should be shot !!!
At the very least ban assault weapons. There is just no reason for them to exist other than for the military.
After the slaughter in Aurora no one wanted to talk about gun control but they sure brought up a ban on costumes at the movie theater.
That was a civilian AR 15. You could use that for hunting. It was not a military issue assault rifle.
WTF sort of loser hunter needs an assault weapon on an animal???
SilenceEvermore people just don't seem to grasp that fact. the only difference is the stock and magazine compared to a regular hunting rifle.
I'm sure those were just a few isolated bad apple acting independently of each other. Just like abu-gharib, blackwater, the walter reed scandal, the traitorous bastard who leaked the story that exposed Valerie Plame...I think I'll just stop there.
What society needs to ban is hypocrisy and ignorance.
Until it stops denying the real causes of all crimes, things like gun laws are no more than public perception exercises being used by politicians to decieve the people into believing they are doing something about the kind of people who got them into power in the first place, the rich, greedy and corrupt.
What next? Will all cars be reduced to 10 kilometres an hour to reduce the road toll? Will alcohol be banned to stop violence in the home? All of these crimes are committed by people who refuse to control themselves.
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
We zap and maim
With the bravery of being out of range
We strafe the train
With the bravery of being out of range
We gain terrain
With the bravery of being out of range
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
there are plenty of stories like this.
hmmmm, the rate of murder by knife or other cutting device is a lot higher then any by gun(FBI Stats)...maybe we should ban all knives and ba
these are directly from the stats that the FBI puts out per state and what type of weapons used or not used
Washington D.C. 31.5 per 100000, chicago is second
Idaho and about 10 others states with lowest: 11 per
besides it really isn't about gun control, it is about fixing our broken justice system that allows criminals to get out early and get the guns. If we locked up the criminals for a very long time: at least 10-20 yrs for possesion of a firearm if they have a felony then the question is un-needed
also: the states that have the strictest gun control have the highest gun deaths in the nation
Numbers calculated by using the Uniform Crime Index of California and Oklahoma. California, most restrictive gun laws: 4.7 homicides per 100K citizens in a population of roughly 37 million. Oklahoma, one of the least restrictive: 5.2 homicides per 100K citizens in a population of close to four million. So douwant2rock, the numbers don't lie, there are less murders per capita in California than Oklahoma, In fact it's half a point difference. Perhaps it's the restrictive gun laws?
the stats are directly from the FBI web site regarding all crimes. google it and you'll find it
Where is your data to back up that statement?
I believe you are incorrect.
Crime Statistics > Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 (most recent) by state
Rank States Amount
# 1 District of Columbia: 31.2
Crime in District of Columbia
# 2 Alaska: 20
Crime in Alaska
# 3 Louisiana: 19.5
Crime in Louisiana
# 4 Wyoming: 18.8
Crime in Wyoming
# 5 Arizona: 18
Crime in Arizona
= 6 Nevada: 17.3
Crime in Nevada
= 6 Mississippi: 17.3
Crime in Mississippi
# 8 New Mexico: 16.6
Crime in New Mexico
# 9 Arkansas: 16.3
Crime in Arkansas
# 10 Alabama
i don't know what system you have when you buy guns in america in australia after the martin bryant massacre they had an amnesty where you could hand your guns in no questions they also had a buy back scheme for high powered and automatic weapons and registered arms. it was just not worth keeping them because they would check and you'd be crucified. you can still get gun licences here but it has restrictions and the police do come to your house and check every gun and your gun safe.america is made up of lots of states and they have to join in together. it is so sad to read of such instances when they could be avoided. you need to shake your government up. hand guns are a real no no. here. petition your government and rally. whatever it takes
You forget, in America all the gun owners have to say is, "It's in the second amendment to bear arms! You know hitler and mao illegalized guns when they rose to power. blah blah blah..." It doesn't matter that Germany outlawed guns to prevent hitler's followers from obtaining them long before he even ran (and lost) for Chancellor, or that Mao stated that since guns bought China it's freedom they should always be at hand, Or even that other countries who have implemented gun control see far far less gun related deaths. All they have to say is, "First the come for the guns, then they come for the gun owners." As if that makes any sense...
. i watched bowling for columbine and it's something deeply inbeded in america. it seems hopeless. that everyone feels that they have the right to carry arms. and maybe statistics aren't that bad tell that to the families who lost love ones.
the problem I would have with that is having the police entering my house without a warrent just because I may have a gun?
never thought of it that's just the way it is we don't find it offensive. they are quite friendly about it. we are allowed guns just not semi auto's anything that can shoot lot's of bullets and hand gun's. at first people didn't like it as it seemed a knee jerk re-action but it's worked quite well. my husband own's a few gun's he's a shooter. also if there is an incidence of domestic violence etc you loose them. i'm sure crims own gun's but they only seem to use them on their kind. which nobody seems to care about. they don't treat you like a crim when they come over the reason for it is so no one can steal them and children can't get a hold of them. the also check to see your bullets aren't kept with your guns and that your safe is not removable. not perfect but it works for us
very simple crooks dont obey the laws
Because people don't understand that over half the guns used in violent crimes were stolen from "responsible" gun owners and sold on the black market.
That's incorrect. 11 of 13 firearms used in crimes were obtained illegally
As per FBI.gov
Also incorrect, see above.
From the district of Justice - "By definition, stolen guns are available to criminals. The FBI's National
Crime Information Center (NCIC) stolen gun file contains over 2 million reports; 60% are reports of stolen handguns." Also, if 11 out of 13 guns used in crimes are being obtained illegally I'm pretty sure most of those are stolen guns being sold, since my same DOJ source says, "Studies of adult and juvenile offenders that the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services conducted in 1992 and 1993 found that 15% of the adult offenders and 19% of the juvenile offenders had stolen guns; 16% of the adults and 24% of the juveniles had kept a stolen gun; and 20% of the adults and 30% of the juveniles had sold or traded a stolen gun." Even though this is an old source, I'm pretty sure the numbers are still relavant since trends like this tend to not change much. Especially since a 2005 story from USA today states that states with higher crime see a higher rate of guns stolen. Lastly, Ernie is right, after all "responsible" gun owners buying large quantities of guns and then selling/giving them to others was the whole problem behind the "fast and furious" faux scandal. Maybe if every gun bought had it's serial number logged in a database we could trace how many guns are being "stolen" from the same people and who is buying them. Or is that a communist plot too?
Gun control is difficult here in The United States because a vast majority of people do not believe in gun control. For every person I have read stating that there should be limits on guns after this incident in Colorado there is another that will write that if there ere somebody in the audience that had a hand gun, more people would be alive.
Politicians have lost elections promoting gun control. Politicians promoting gun rights do not lose elections because of such promotions.
Why is gun control so hard? Because Weapons-R-US. The US is the largest exporter in the world and weapons are our largest export. The state I live in is infamous for selling any Yankee that visits a gun show a dozen weapons at a shot which they then take back to the big cities and sell on the black market. It's big money and the US has the best justice and government money can buy.
Don't forget you can buy grenade launchers and RPGs at gun shows, of course they won't sell you the ammo at the show, that requires some legwork and convincing. Or a couple grand in a paper bag...
I want a nuclear tipped cruise missile myself.
Because the USA is a deeply paranoid , violent country so afraid of itself that it thinks more guns are the answer to everything.
thinking more guns are the answer to everything is a pretty big leap. but they can certainly be the answer when one needs a chance to try to save one's children. EP Link
Robberies, rapes, assaults, and murders can all be accomplished with things other than guns. I'd rather risk being stabbed than being shot anyday.
because it would cost time and money(of which comes from taxes) to that, think about how many people in America own guns and how easy it is to hide something as small as a desert eagle in the back of your pants
Obviously you have never been raped or had someone try to take your kids from your house at night or was in a home invasion?? So shut the **** up.