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tommiatkins tommiatkins 51-55, M 6 Answers Jun 3 in Community

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When a woman comes in a doctors office and complains about a pain in her penis, would you really expect her to be treated the same way as a man would have been?

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that's just silly...how about a valid complaint, like getting a speeding ticket?

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of course it is, and of course they are treated differently. thats because we are all different, and being treated the same would be insulting.

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hardly, if 5 out of ten women get a speeding ticket while 9 out of 10 men get tickets for speeding, that is not fair...equality was what I thought we all wanted.

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not me. We are all unique and nobody is a machine. Equality is BS that communists tried to achieve, and we all know how well that worked out. The only thing that should be equal is opportunity, and in my company it is.

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Depending on the complaint.

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Ok, then let's say it concerns equal pay, or abuse complaints.

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Well that's the kind of thing I meant. Complaints are often treated differently in situations such as those.

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Yes, I know for a fact they are. If you don't believe me test it out. Go tot he store, buy something, open it, bring it back with some complaint. 9 times out of ten the employee doing the return (esp if they're male) will get annoyed and try to get it over with asap. If the customer is male and the employee is male they usually offer more help and try to ensure satisfaction. Why? Women are seen as emotional, nitpicky, and hard to please. Men are seen as decisive, sensible, and easy to please. This is no more evident than in politics. A politician who takes charge, stands up to opposition, and is passionate, if Male they are seen as a "bold, strong willed, and effective leader." If they are female, they are seen as "Bossy, bullying, and overemotional."

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I think you have broadened the concept, I am speaking about complaining, as it is seen as wimpy when men do it and coming from women it is considered a woman in distress, like a car breakdown, and three guys are trying to help where the guy will get laughed at, so you see things are not all balck and white.

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yeah, because men are taught never to ask for help, and women are taught to be decoration or out of the way. I can change a tire, but I've never had to, I've literally had the tire iron yanked out of my hand because "I'd do it wrong." So yeah, men may get razzed on, but women end up feeling frustrated and angry because men view them as helpless.

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this sounds true, and yet, watch a guy try to cook in front of any number of women, or do cleaning, dress a child...it's the same thing. He is treated like a moron, and we all know there isn't one right way to do anything, especially when men are told they aren't doing enough already? It doesn't make sense, men can do anything, but give birth.

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Obviously you've never known any real cooks, in the food industry literally more than half probably close 75% of professional cooks and chefs are male. It's funny, they told women to stay in the kitchen, then when they try to get into a kitchen to cook professionally, they're told go home. Despite the fact that men are stereotyped as idiots when it comes to kids, the issue is women are stereotyped far more and with far reaching consequences. I'm sorry, but a woman getting annoyed with a guy for cleaning is not the same as a man getting mad at a woman for "getting in his way" while changing a tire.

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...and women dominate education and nursing, libraries, secretarial pools and dozens of other places. I think everyone knows that men are the best chefs in general, and that seems to be because in a fast paced and demanding kitchen men tend to make the most capable workers. Often women work shorter careers in the top cook spot and move on to other jobs, by choice. I don't see where this conspiracy is that you insinuate in the food industry. Today an owner will hire who ever does the best job be it man or woman, so that just doesn't fly. Look at the competitive cooking show on reality tv, the women are there, they tend to do well, but more often than not they don't go into the top jobs for some reason related to wanting a home life or desire less stress, I don't know, but I doubt it is a hiring wall by the owners, who are always happy to hire who ever makes them money. So I am not buying that as some kind of design to discriminate. Unlike the hospital, where male nurses are shoved down by female supervisors, I have worked there and the men don't get an even chance, in grade schools, men only sweep the floors and fix stuff. In retail sales, in cultural nonprofits, men aren't even considered for most of those jobs, largely because the supervisors won't put men in with the gals and cause trouble, on can only wonder??? Where is the work place equality when it comes to dirty work, dangerous work, late night work? Men are stuck in these jobs like so much disposable minions. My sister has an IT company and she will tell you to your face she has a no men policy, and gets away with it! Even in this conversation, women are entitled to complain about weather we continue to use a word like 'bossy' but men are expected to shut up and get back to work...now!

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Gnatfree, I don't think there is a differance in telling anyone they can't do something right just because they are one gender or the other....you may be biased against men, possibly?

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"and women dominate education and nursing, libraries, secretarial pools and dozens of other places. " Gee perhaps because those were typically FEMALE JOBS for decades? "I think everyone knows that men are the best chefs in general," Your sexism is showing dude. " I don't see where this conspiracy is that you insinuate in the food industry." It's not a conspiracy it's sexist attitudes that women can't handle a real kitchen, you even did the exact same thing, "that seems to be because in a fast paced and demanding kitchen men tend to make the most capable workers. " You're assuming, have you ever worked in the restaurant industry? A lot? No? Then you don't know what I'm talking about. "more often than not they don't go into the top jobs for some reason related to wanting a home life" Yeah, because women have been pushed to believe they can either have a career or family, my mother caught a hell of a lot of flack for working while I was a child, so don't you dare tell me all women 'want to be moms or desire less stress'. "Unlike the hospital, where male nurses are shoved down by female supervisors" Oh good, maybe then they'll realize that's what happens to women all the time, suck it up we've dealt with men slapping us down for centuries. Parents tell their little girl to stop playing int he mud, they tell them to not rough house or wrestle, they tell them to act like ladies. I was skateboarding once, and a little girl asked me if it was hard, I said only at first and you know what she told me, "Mommy says girls can't skateboard. Tommy, when you state that it's hard for a male nurse because he has to fight the fact that it's typically considered a female profession, did it ever occur to you that EVERY job was once considered, A "Man's job"?

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You are the only sexist in this conversation. I own a food service missy. I have worked in the health care profession, I am not speaking from some assumed knowledge source and the mythology fed to women over the past 50 years about how men have been responsible for all their problems. You are so very typical of women who are all about women's issues and couldn't give a hang if men are loosing their rights...don't even imagine that men have it equal in sentencing, parental rights, and when it comes to spouse abuse and sexual assult. I know why women leave high pressure jobs like the commercial kitchen, why women refuse to advance men when they prefer to give the boost to a woman. Sure women had it differently and there have been a tremendous number of advantages for girls, but not boys.
This began with the question of weather men could be heard as not whining when they have the same complaint as a woman and your misandrist response has answered it for me just as I had expected. Men are being unfairly punished by women and society and most of your gender only say "good, they deserve it" even if you are talking about a boy who has never made a sexist decision in his entire life. Women are getting the best wages in the 19 to 26 age group today and think it is only fair to shaft the guys, (like the pay diferential is rven his fault?) Women are attending, and graduating from higher education in rapidly increasing numbers while boys are at risk in school in higher numbers than ever, dropping out and flunking. Because the education system favors girls is run by women and girls do better in all categories, boys are getting shafted by women and you think I am speaking from a position of misogyny????? REALLY????? Our prisons are full of boys who would not even be there in most other countries, why, because men are afraid of these boys? I think not.
Why do you site examples of women holding back girls doing boy stuff? Is it because women have always been a big factor in weather a girl went into the men's world to work, or choose not to have a family? YES, you speak truth, women have helped hold younger women back, expecting girls to dress and conduct themselves in a respectable way according to proper women's valuse, since the beginning of time. Sure men do that in a big way too, but you are in denial if you do not admit that a big part of sexism for both genders, is coming from, women, just like you.

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Depending on the circumstances.

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yup

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