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cpgnatly cpgnatly 41-45, M 6 Answers Oct 6, 2012 in Community

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deeeeeep. now pass that fatty to the left ;)

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preaching to the choir here. lol

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hey its BB...

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and your still a classic after all this time =D hiya mate

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Your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow the premise.

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Really? I would be interested in that if you can demonstrate it.

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I'd think the onus is on you to prove your idea. BUt anyway...
1. There might be a God that created a finite universe that defines justice. Therefore justice would exist
= Or
2. Fate may not be real because free will might exist.

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Well, my understanding of God is that She has to have infinite energy to even exist. If the universe is all there is and it's finite, then I know for certain anything within the universe is vulnerable. I also know if the universe has a beginning or end, then it's impossible to recover from an ill chosen abortion, much less some of the pain infliction humanity has invented, so it's impossible to create justice. Justice actually requires the benefactors of injustice to live the lives of their victims. If the universe is finite energy, you also only get one shot at any of your decisions, which are not really decisions at all anymore but rather just energy transitions before you expire. For choice to be real, both paths must exist. If the other path does not exist, there was really no choice at all.

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Possibility 1 - The universe is finite, but existence isn't.
Possibility 2 - A finite 'God' yet still capable of delivering justice.
Don't agree with premise that justice requires victims to live the lives of their victims. There are many theories of justice that don't require this at all.
What about restorative justice, as an example. I steal ten cents from someone. To make up for it, I admit my wrong to them and give them a dollar.

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Well, for starters, if the universe is finite there is no place for existence to be infinite. This is so elementary and obvious, I'm curious how you think you will fit an infinite thing into finite space. You fail to understand the basic concept of murder and pain. Torture can never be restored. The U.S. isn't about to sail back to Europe and give North America back to the Americans. If $0.10 is your example and you think you understand justice, I'm thinking this is why you think you'll fit the infinite into the finite. I'm sorry this is harsh, but you don't seem to have a handle on some very basic concepts and you don't seem ready to deal with this issue.

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No, there's nothing wrong with my conception of these ideas.
A. The universe is time and space and matter. 1. Physicists are currently talking about multiverses as a possibility, as though existsnce may go beyond this universe. 2. The judeao-christian concept of god is that he is outside of the universe (immanence/ transcendence). So there are two examples of space or existence to be infinite beyond a finite universe. B. You need to read up on restorative justice and other concepts of justice. I didn't say 'torture can be restored'. I don't have space here to explain basics to you. Your concept of justice seems to be one you have created yourself, and there is a huge body of work that you haven't grasped that differs from your definition. You're talking to someone who has studied philosophy, and you speak as someone not used to academic debate.

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Well, separating any God from the universe seems silly. The universe is everything. If the God is real, it is including with it. Not sure who thought up a universe that doesn't include God with the God still being real. Sounds inherently flawed to me. Justice is very straightforward stuff. Doesn't take books to understand. Justice is simply receiving what you give or a fair exchange. I don't need a certificate to think. I'm thinking the certificate is not a good insurance policy at this point as well.

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'Seems silly' based on your presupposition that the universe is everything. What if the universe isn't everything? If the universe is created - as per christian/muslim thought - then God has to have existed before the universe, so is separate. Re justice: Sometimes it's not possible to receive what you give in fair exchange. I kill five people, I only have one life to give back. Is justice still possible? I don't think it's straightforward in all situations. That's why people have thought about it in different ways. When is it justice, when revenge, where is the space for reform, is punishment more important than becoming a better person and giving back to society? I think there are lots of nuances to justice.

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I think you should look up the definition of a universe. I mean, do you want me to make up a new word called superverse to include everything and start calling the universe a subverse? Thank you for proving justice doesn't exist in terms of easy math, btw. Justice is more straightforward than you think. You are pulling the old lawyer trick where you question the obvious and create complicated linguistics to hide the concepts. Old and tiring trick I don't mess with anymore. My apology for running out of patience with you, but your lack of understanding isn't worth trying to burn through because you are deliberately choosing to not understand.

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Ok, you can't follow basic logic. Conversation is a waste of time. My definition of 'universe' doesn't come from the oxford dictionary, your head or what you saw on tv when you were a child, but in the discussions of scientists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe#Multiverse_theory
Don't bother looking it up - you won't understand it.

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The universe continues to expand and has no boundary. It is infinite.

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Its a multiverse.

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Actually, if the amount of energy in the universe is finite and it continues to expand forever, it will approach a point where it doesn't matter anymore and the condition holds.

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