I am just terribly curious about one thing: why on earth is there an ongoing war between the Gaza ***** and the state of Israel? Who do you think will win?
deleted deleted
26-30
11 Responses Aug 28, 2014

They are the Hatfield's and McCoy's of the mid-east.
They just hate each other. Not all of them, but enough to keep the fighting going.

well, I'm afraid, there is no winner and never will. Except the war ended once and for all, but that doesn't look real :(

Those with strenght enough to get out of the enchanted circle.

I think it is mostly due to religious animosities between the two groups, not just a matter of land grabbing. Where religion is involved though, Nobody wins :(

Yeah, I suppose you right there dear. Unfortunately :(

No one will win because scores of people are dying and many lives are destroyed. That is not "winning". Jews and Arabs are cousins - all descendants of Abraham. It's a family feud over land, wealth and inheritance. Such feuds never end especially when it transcends more than 1,000 generations.

not true

they are cousins what is wrong?

Oh man, the jews were a culturally diverse mixture of peoples who served as slaves in Egypt.

A large and influential group of them originated from Canaan. There was a drought or a famine or something went wrong in Egypt that made it so they couldn't feed their slaves. So many of the Slaves who had formed an Apocalyptic Monotheistic Cult the migrated to to Canaan.

They were familiar with agriculture having been agricultural works and lived in the mountain ranges, they had written languages so they kept contact with each other (see Judges).

Their biblical tradition was a narrative, verbal and written that had the laws codes, agricultural methods and traditions that were carried from Egypt wrapped into an Epic. There was never a God, who liberated them, it was a bit of bad luck for the Egyptian Empire.

But they asked god for deliverance and delivered they were.

As they flourished and expanded from their prosperity, they descended from the mountain ranges into the valleys displacing the residents who sought refuge in Syria (Phoenicia) and Lebanon.


It took a while because the Israelite were not warriors they were farmers. They had high tech farming stone age military skills.


They had a completely different cultural identity they were more genetically diverse, they had descendant from everywhere the Egyptian empire conquered, and brought back slaves and every where Egypt traded with.

They made the hills arable, communicated and preserved their traditions and formed the state of Israel made up of the Tribes, or the communities that lived in the mountains.


It is likely that the latest conquest was raids were on the Canaanites so they knew of somewhere to go. But they were marginally Semitic.

They had scribes who could count, (they were farmhands) but they couldn't write in hieroglyphics so they made a written language based on numbers.

Religious solidarity was needed to hold them together as a group so the Moses tale and all the other bullsh!t was cobbled together to induce sense of unity.

"So not mix fabric of two different cloth" 'That is because they shrink at different rates and pull the thread apart. Not because God gets hurt.

"Do not grow two types of food in one pasture," that is because invasive plants like wheat overrun turnip patches.

It is the first draft of an almanac.

"Sodom and Gomorrah" That was a lesson in hospitality because the Benjaminites from mount ra ra ra didn't welcome Shemites from hukka lukka doo, but they were all the same peoples, so god enforced Rite of Hospitality.

The lesson, don't rape benjaminites when the show up, because they might be angels that kick your a$$ open.

Secular bible scholarship sux. Nothing worse than finding out there isn't a santa clause. I am tired of going over this and getting nowhere.

I could tell you about the garden of Eden too, that is a hoot!

Huh? Isaac and Ishmael are the two known sons of Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Isaac and Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. The Bible, Koran, Torah and history books are all consistent about this. The fight is about ownership of a small territory once occupied by Arab Palestenians which Jews contend was promised to them God. Jews also contend that they won most of the lands in various wars going back to the period before King Saul and after King David. Arabs contend that it is their land and that the Jews are settlers and interlopers etc. Add to that the conflicting religious claims to Jerusalem which has passed from Jewish to Roman to Christian to Muslim to Christian to Jewish control. All three religions lay claim to holy "temples" and sacred "shrines" in the old city. The issues are intractable from generation to generation. Hatred from all the killings will not help. So no one is winning

Wow that is an interesting perspective.

Huh? Isaac and Ishmael are the two known sons of Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Isaac and Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. The Bible, Koran, Torah and history books are all consistent about this. The fight is about ownership of a small territory once occupied by Arab Palestenians which Jews contend was promised to them God. Jews also contend that they won most of the lands in various wars going back to the period before King Saul and after King David. Arabs contend that it is their land and that the Jews are settlers and interlopers etc. Add to that the conflicting religious claims to Jerusalem which has passed from Jewish to Roman to Christian to Muslim to Christian to Jewish control. All three religions lay claim to holy "temples" and sacred "shrines" in the old city. The issues are intractable from generation to generation. Hatred from all the killings will not help. So no one is winning

Huh? Isaac and Ishmael are the two known sons of Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Isaac and Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. The Bible, Koran, Torah and history books are all consistent about this. The fight is about ownership of a small territory once occupied by Arab Palestenians which Jews contend was promised to them God. Jews also contend that they won most of the lands in various wars going back to the period before King Saul and after King David. Arabs contend that it is their land and that the Jews are settlers and interlopers etc. Add to that the conflicting religious claims to Jerusalem which has passed from Jewish to Roman to Christian to Muslim to Christian to Jewish control. All three religions lay claim to holy "temples" and sacred "shrines" in the old city. The issues are intractable from generation to generation. Hatred from all the killings will not help. So no one is winning

Welcome to EP.

Huh? Isaac and Ishmael are the two known sons of Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Isaac and Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. The Bible, Koran, Torah and history books are all consistent about this. The fight is about ownership of a small territory once occupied by Arab Palestenians which Jews contend was promised to them God. Jews also contend that they won most of the lands in various wars going back to the period before King Saul and after King David. Arabs contend that it is their land and that the Jews are settlers and interlopers etc. Add to that the conflicting religious claims to Jerusalem which has passed from Jewish to Roman to Christian to Muslim to Christian to Jewish control. All three religions lay claim to holy "temples" and sacred "shrines" in the old city. The issues are intractable from generation to generation. Hatred from all the killings will not help. So no one is winning

Interesting question! you're adorable he he he: cough.... wheeeeez.

The Muslims always had a certain affection for the Jews. Not they didn't occasionally oppress them but no where nearly as much as the Christians did.

In fact part of the reason for the Inquisition was Southern Spain was part of the Muslim world for hundreds of years. Christian communities were in the dark ages and Toledo and Barcelona were majestic cities with fantastic architecture plumbing universities.

That is where the Renaissance started in Muslim areas of Spain.

When the Christains took over spain they drove out the Muslims and the Jews.

The Leader of the ottoman Empire the Omar or Pasha I forget which, left Muslims waiting at the harbors and sent his fleet to rescue the Jews who were in the North and suffering extermination, at a much more rapid rate, they were interspersed with the Christians more.

Muslim sailors who sailed to Spain to evacuate the Jews were volunteers; the Spanish Armada was the most powerful Navy in the world, They would have been massacred if they were attacked but they went to get the Jews.

That is why there were numerous Jewish communities throughout the Middle east and Northern Africa from 1500s -1948.

he - he - he yummy.!

There was segregation, Jews were not allowed to practice their faith except in their Townships. And there was a little bit of rivalry.

Jews earned money through banking and usury, charging interest or paying interest is a sin in Islam. Jews were affluent, they were successful at trading with the Europeans having relatives there, oriental products like fabrics, rugs and crafts manufactured in the middle east were shipped to Europeans and sold by Jews.

They were welcome in the Levant, Moderate Muslim leaders thought they would bring them into the 20th century.

The problems started with the English Mandate after World War 1.

Most of the Officers in the army were facinated by the Arabic Culture. They learned how to speak the language and respected their values and traditions.

Political leadership in England, influenced by Prestigious Jewish bankers Businessmen and Jewish Parliamentary Ministers and American and French Jews took the side of Jews on issues of Zionism.

The arguments and contention was actually a fracas between the Military Authority on the ground and Parliamentary and Diplomatic Corp officials and ambassadors from the UK. With official policy serving the Jews in Palestine and Administration of those polices supporting the Arab Populations.

The contention that they are "mortal enemies" is patently false. fabricated and Propaganda


The first wave of Zionist emigres to the Levant from the west were leftists, communists and idealists. They were the ones who made the "desert bloom".

The Zionist movement in the 1800's was made up of western Europeans from the US England and continental Europe.

It didn't hit a watershed until Eastern Europeans from Lithuania Poland and Russia escaping the Pogroms and persecutions They were more religious and when they were settled creating Religious communities and right wing Orthodox Jews wanted to establish Hegemony over Jerusalem and and reestablish the possession of the Temple Mount.

They had papers giving them rights but, the army didn't force their claims. that is what caused Negev and the Stern group to resort to terrorism to drive their cause.

The leftist were fine with the Muslims. And the Muslims saw them as a an opportunity to get rid of English rule and protect them from Colonial subjugation.

(he- he - he lol cough wheez, adorable ; P)

Read what I wrote a few times, and you will know more about the Palestinian conflict than most people who attended the Camp David Summit. It was European chauvinism not a Natural innate enmity that cause the problem.

That is a ruse, perpetrated by the Allies, Primarily England and the US. Because they mismangled the situation like it was a game of Simm City.

The zionists went to the Jewish Communities in the Middle east after the war of 1948 to enlist the Jewish Populations to migrate to Israel.

There was propaganda campaigns to convince the Jewish people the the Muslim communities were planning to exterminate the Jews within their countries. It was a hoax, they needed workers and settlers in Israel.

In Morocco they still maintain the Synagogues and Mellahs, hoping that one day their Jewish neighbors will return. The Job of maintaining a Synagogue, Jewish holy sites or a Jewish Cemetery is an honor, and a sacrosanct duty to Muslims.

They don't tell you that on Fox News! (he he he Megan Kelly cough hmmmm...Gams! : P)

9 More Responses

The answer to that depends on who you ask.
Israel has had to fight long and hard for it's independence. It is surrounded on all sides by Arab nations.
So every now and then one nation or another tries to pick a fight to get more land. Always quoting some long forgotten treaty or agreement or war victory from long ago. As grounds for going to war!
Unfortunately for Israel. It's leaders of the last 100 years or more. Keep trying to put settlers into land that they don't own. Although they'd like to as it gives them more of a barrier between those who worship Judaism. And the Arabs who are Muslim.
Clear so far?
The Arab nation that does own it says "OI! Get off my land!!"
At which point a war takes place! there's a winner and a loser!
Boundary lines are redrawn and the whole sorry mess starts again.
Now. To you and I sitting where we do. We say for goodness sake kids grow up!!
Over there they say "this is about our right to exist" etc.
In the early 1980's. Much of the Arab nations were wealthy,prosperous western loving nations.
Unfortunately. In order for the Arab nations to be this way. They jailed/imprisoned/tortured(allegedly)killed many of those who were opposed to this westernisation of the Muslim world.
Thus A religious Ayatollah made his way back to Iran. Having been exiled. Gathered a following along the way. Overthrew the government of Iran. Imposed the Muslim doctrine on it's people and so began the last thirty odd years of anti western feeling in the Muslim world!
Still with me?
This left Israel in a difficult situation. Step forward the U.S.A!!! We'll protect you!!!
Why?
Because there are lots of wealthy Jewish Americans.....And they all have a vote worth buying!

Gettit?
So. In a nutshell. It's all either about territory. Which is ridiculous. Since even the U.N gave up on that one.
Or
It's about religious freedom. Which is ridiculous! Not much freedom to be had if you're not allowed the right to chose!
Or. It's about revenge over the Arab playboys who forsook their faith in return for lavish lifestyles.
Or..... See where this is going?
And this has been going on for centuries!!
One day. A woman will stand in the middle of Saudi Arabia. Will remove her burka. And will scream at the top of her voice. Why did you sacrifice our children? For what?
When that day happens. The Middle East will be overthrown by women!!
When one considers that even male dominated societies like India or Pakistan have both had female leaders despite not having a voice in society! Then maybe. Just maybe there's hope for the Middle East.

Good point about the style of leadership in Arabian countries and Persia.

The thing to remember is that oppressed people turn to religion in the face of poverty and despair.

The Muslim Moses isn't going to come out of US and Israeli foreign policy. The ayatollah Khomeini, PLO, the Taliban and Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were there to stand up to their oppressors.


We are like the Plantation communities getting hyped up with fear against the next Nat Turner. Oil is Cotton.

The biggest problem the Palestinians have is choosing leadership.

If there was a peaceful resolution after the Yom Kippor war in 73, Arafat would have been a petty mayor instead of a Freedom Fighting rock star of the Middle East.

This conflict was exacerbated by Lukid, because Fatah and Hamas were making inroads to a reconciliation.

Israel gains very little from a two state solution. That is the equivalent of the 15th amendment of the US constitution giving black the right to vote. Right of statehood would mean they can build defenses form armies create seaports control their commerce.

Bee bee don like dat....

Status Quo works better for the state of Israel. They just have to deal with token resistance and manageable causalities from terrorism to maintain an iron grip on Palestine. They have a number of Israeli Casualties they can sustain before the People of Isreal demand a change. they just have to keep it in the margins. they don't have to solve it, solving it cuts their options.

this land is not belong to Israel, they were withdraw by Roman Forces since 2000 years back and now they came back by establishing Zionist movement in 1887 after total control on USA and EU economic and than they plan World War 1/2 to pave the way for Establishing State of Israel and to restore the King Solomon Kingdom once more time but unfortunately they don't know that his kingdom was based on Faith/Love/Spirituality and their kingdom is based on killing and hate, We should wait for Jesus PBUH come back and solve all the issues.

Point taken, but the key is to have a strategic partner from among the Palestinians to get a similar deal as was offered at the Oslo accords.

Without the poison pills that Arafat and Militant factions of Knesset insist on installing in every peace treaty.

Abbas has potential but, He ain't no MLK

And anyone who cares enough about the Palestinian people to make the tough choices and concessions wouldn't be supported by them. they have fought to hard to accept a crappy deal. but that would be all they could hope for at this point. I wish that wasn't the case but it is.

All israel has to do is put a condition "for the security and protection of the state of Israel" and the rest of the document is worthless. Israeli paramilitary can create chaos on the borders and the IDF has carte blanche to clean it up.

Until the Palestinian Authority has the power to police it's borders (without armor or sophisticated weaponry), and Israel controls it's right wing there is no hope.

The blew it when the liberals were in control of the Knesset, they hoped the wind would turn their way, and it hasn't.

The only solution is a mutual security force made up of Israeli border patrol and Palestinian border forces trained together and autonomous from political influences the Palestinians are screwed.

If the US put their Military aide into a program like that the conflict could be resolved in a generation If the Propaganda was created that Border Units were sacrosanct, and the units loyalty to their mission was stronger than their loyalty to their nation.

Israeli Brainwashing is up to snuff for something like that, they managed to create the illusion that they are the hapless victims.

You do have some perspective.
I think you are wrong that it has been going on for centuries. I don't think the hornets nest got stirred until the Jewish Orthodox Community started to move to Palistine and wanted unrestricted access to the temple mount in 1940's not sure the date couldn't find it.

Muslims have never put restrictions of the practice of other faiths in their communities. The do insist that the respect Islam in public areas and maintain their curtail their worship to their sub communities.

That is something Christians have never acquiesced to.

The contention has always been fomented by Theocratic Extremists and fundamentalists of all three Abrahamic Faiths. Moderate musims held more political power until radical Jews began creating contention over control of the the Western wall. But, having to ask for access and observe Muslim Control regulations and dictum was a slight they stomach, up until that point they were welcome guests, but then they wanted to move into the master bedroom.

British intervention in installing the Mufti of Jerusalem was another big log in the conflagration. (you d!cks)

I have done a lot of research on a lot of things, it is one of the benefits of being a misanthrope. I am not emotionally attached to an agenda.

all ideologies based on fictitious and fanciful revisions of history disgust me equally.

If you have been alive a few years you get to see how the jive works. And you can read a news paper sideways. You can see what people's goals are by their narrative. It isn't to find the truth.

The truth isn't in the middle, it is smelted out of the bullsh!t.

I didn't go into the Jewish Roman wars because it was a brief history.

To cover that I would have to go into the book of Maccabees, Jewish customs Roman religious customs, Alexander the Great, Slavery in Rome and Herod the Great.

Basically Building a temple to your Gods, was like meerkats making a latrine to mark their territory.

The Israelite built their Latrine, the Romans wanted to use it to dump their effluence in the Jews didn't want that, Rome kicked their butts, the Muslims stayed in Jerusalem and they built their latrine.

That is about how complex that is...

There is no God involved in the process, Abraham never went to sacrifice Isaac, Mohammad never walked to Jerusalem and their is not an apocalypse. They were later invented to lay claim to "holy sites"

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Israel killed more than 2000 woman and children and more than 10000 got injured, but Hammass Group kill only 70 Israeli Militants, I think Hammass win the war, if you don't eliminate the paper currency from this world, wait for 3rd Word War.

People need to understand it, the biggest problem is that the US is like the corrupt town sheriff. And the state of Israel is their son.No matter what pyromaniac sadistic, cruel, ill tempered and ruthless policies and actions Israel takes against it's neighbors. The US will back it up. That is the problem in a nutshell. The way the Palestinians are treated is much worse than the Blacks In the deep south were treated prior to the civil rights act. The best of them are punished for the worst of them.It is the worlds largest outdoor maximum security prison. Terror tunnels: Bullsh!t. The "terrorists" were helping people carry stretchers with their family members out of Gaza so they could get medical care.They have no strategic defense what so ever, they are not even allowed to build bomb shelters. Almost all of the Knesset are former Military, if there was peace in Palestine they would lose seats. Prior to parliamentary elections they expand settlements. Palestinians organize peaceful protests, but IDF forces arrest peaceful activists at and leave everyone who is of hooligan age there. Then they let in the News crews and break out the tear gas and rubber bullets. That justifies the perception that the Palestinians are knuckle dragging troglodytes. They want to keep the contention going. They have very sophisticated strategies of fomenting the tensions, without needing to resolve it. the best analysis for my buck, is Cenk Uger on the Young Turks. He is as impartial an opinion as you will find. He is on YouTube "the young Turks / Gaza"If you want more detail I would love to go into more.(That is a cute little teddy on your profile pic. he he he I got a bear like that....cough cough hmmmmm. : P)

Modd096 is a female, MisterHerbert, and she's at least 18. Now what's that you were saying about your teddy bear?

yes it is true but such a question really need explanation.

Israel

I guarantee nobody will win.

Because the land originally belonged to the Palestinians, and the Jews suddenly went "nope, our land." That's overly simplified of course, and I suggest reading literature on the subject.