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Don't Dabble

Seriously. I have been doing this for a long time (over 10 years) and it can be very dangerous, not just to you, but to those you care most about. My church is a non-denominational protestant church. I am a member of Glory River Ministries International (as a pastor) and the IPN (International Prayer Network). I am being certified as an exorcist through the American Association of Exorcists. I received my ordination on March 15th, 2009. I was baptized by immersion in the Wabash River (in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) on September 8th 2002. I received (accepted) my calling as an apostle the third time God told me that I was to be an apostle (I didn't think I was good enough, but God has faith in me) last spring. I have studied spiritual warfare and paranormal activities since 1999. I grew up in the church (Methodist), left and discovered things for myself, and came back as a non-denominational Christian.
Let me share some tips I have learned over the years:

What is it? / General concepts

DISCLAIMER: Do NOT attempt if you are an amateur. You could become physically or spiritually injured. DO NOT DABBLE! If you enter into spiritual warfare or astral combat unprepared you could become possessed or otherwise cause serious harm to yourself or others.

Spiritual warfare:
Spiritual warfare is a blanket term used to describe any dealings or encounters with spiritual beings of a less than friendly nature. It includes such things as: Baptism, deliverance, exorcism, prayer, and so on. The general spiritual warfare that we deal with everyday could be as minor as resisting the temptation to spend money that you could donate to charity on candy; it could also be as major as commanding an evil spirit out of a house or out of a person... complete with power failures and projectile vomiting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to blame everything bad on demons, its just that they are often involved in the situations that I am discussing.

In the case of baptism, sins are removed from a person, sometimes including minor negative energy entities, and the holy spirit fills in the space left so they cannot come back.

Deliverance is the same except that it is on a larger scale: it often happens soon after baptism, if there are larger and more powerful demons that must be removed to make room for the holy spirit.

An exorcism is similar to deliverance, but is not absolutely tied to baptism. It is very much more forceful removal of evil spirits, and the subject must consent and then agree to make life changes and/ or get baptized; otherwise the demons will come back and bring along friends, making the original situation worse.

In prayer, we often pray against bad things happening of against the actions of demons. We ask God to intervene on our behalf. This type of prayer, or a prayer for someone to get well when an illness is caused by a demon is also spiritual warfare.

There are several books on spiritual warfare, if you like:
A divine revelation of spiritual warfare by Mary k. Baxter
The bondage breaker by Anderson
The spirit world by Rev. Clarence Larkin
I own these two and they are very good books if you want to do more research on it.

Specifics of types of spiritual warfare and examples of their uses

Baptism: A baptism happens when someone makes a personal commitment to change their life for the better and accept the salvation offered to us through Jesus' sacrifice. It is performed on new Christians and old ones alike. One might convert without being baptized, but do it later on when they want to make a more definite commitment. It can be done with the sprinkling of water on the forehead or being submerged in a pool or a river. The symbolism is that we are buried with Jesus and, based on this, many believe that it must be a full submersion to be effective. Some people *coughcatholicscough* believe that you must be baptized to go to heaven. I believe that it is going to help, but not absolutely needed. Since it removes sins that you could also remove by repenting for each and every one of them, it makes the spiritual journey a much easier one.

Deliverance: As I stated before, deliverance is related to baptism. Deliverance will happen when someone capable of performing the deliverance is present and:
A: The subject has a lot of negative energy that is not their own
B: The subject has been baptized or otherwise made a commitment against the dark side
C: The subject is possessed and has asked for the Holy Spirit in one way or another, such as praying for a spiritual gift like tongues.
Not all of these factors need to be in effect, but at least one should be for a deliverance to happen. One does not usually choose to be delivered as they would with an exorcism or a baptism. It may just happen. This is because it happens when we invite the Holy Spirit into us in one way or another, without knowing if there is space for it or not. If there is not, then God will make the space by kicking out demonic energies. Someone qualified to perform a deliverance will be there most of the time; because it is such a person who assists in spiritual growth in a Christian sense, and it almost always happens at times when we want to grow spiritually. Such a person is needed Because they can prevent the demonic energy from attacking someone else, re-entering the subject, or otherwise making a nuisance of itself.

Exorcism: A forced removal of spirits and/or devils, including demons and ghosts from a living host who is possessed or otherwise being harassed by said spirits. A good case is seen in the movie "The Exorcism of Emily Rose". That movie is based on a true story, and well put together. In the ritual itself, a priest or other qualified person will read scripture, pray, and speak to the spirit to be exorcised. Holy water, anointing oil, and religious talismans and symbols will be used. The exorcist will command the spirit out of the subject, and God willing, it will leave. Any observers will become potential targets for the spirit's wrath if they have not been blessed and/or anointed in advance. When the spirit comes out, a physical reaction will happen. For example, the subject may scream or cry and the spirit come out with the tears or sound. Vomiting the spirit out is not uncommon as well. The spirit, now angry, must be sent away; removed from this world back to it's own. A second stage of exorcism is performed, where the spirit is commanded out of our world. Failing this, it is usually possible to command it from the house or property, and bind it from harming the subject ever again. This indirectly brings me to another form of exorcism, in which the second stage is the only one performed. It is a casting out of evil spirits from a home or property. There is no possession of a person in these cases. It most closely resembles a mild to severe haunting by evil spirits, and is actually easier to perform than a body exorcism. As I mentioned before, you need to be possessed to have an exorcism. There are more ways to become possessed than most people realize. Here are some examples: In voodoo rituals, the participants deliberately allow themselves to become possessed; Any form of channeling allows a person to become possessed, because the spirit must enter you for it to work, and there is no guarantee that it will leave afterwords; ouija or spirit boards are a form of channeling, and participants regularly become possessed; Tarot can cause possession in certain cases (please do not jump my case for this, its actually a rare one, but it DOES happen); Practicing any witchcraft, druidic, wiccan, new age, pagan, or satanic religions can attract unwanted spiritual attention as well (I am not trying to disrespect those of you who may be a part of these faiths, and I am sorry if I have, so if you question me on this please keep it nice and polite or pm me).

Symptoms of possession:
A possessed person usually will exhibit a dramatic personality shift 'overnight' they could become hostile towards family and friends; sometimes violently so. Their taste in music and food will change as well. Keep in mind that there are little or no medical problems caused by this change save, perhaps, malnutrition after a prolonged period of time. This is why I prefer to interview the family. Religious symbols, particularly Hebrew and Christian symbols can cause anywhere from disgust to physical pain. Pain would only be exhibited from direct contact with the skin. The one possessed will develop a sudden distaste for church, sometimes to the point of becoming violent when presented with a suggestion to attend. The music in particular causes discomfort, disgust, and even pain to the possessed. I have found that Christian music or, to a lesser degree, any uplifting music can cause physical reactions in possessed individuals. The reactions range from demanding irrationally that the music be changed, to fleeing the sound, to becoming violent. There will usually be a physical reaction to holy water, and a stronger reaction to anointing oil. I only use the oil failing to get a reaction from the water, but with other signs of possession present. The subject may react in pain, as if the substance were hot or somehow repulsive; like it had a hideous odor. The sensation may last for hours or days, depending on the severity of the possession.

On Angels And Demons:

General Information

As far as qualifications to say I know what I know: I have done literally years of research, as well as had MANY undeniable experiences that seem to prove my research. I am Christian, but, I'm not one of those Christians. I believe in angels AND demons. many people seem to believe in just one or the other, or even neither! one cannot exist without the other because demons WERE angels, so by acknowledging the existence of one, you acknowledge the existence of both. (unless you do not believe in the fall from grace) I have actually SEEN demons, and heard them, and the experiences cannot be explained away as ANYTHING else. I am a firm believer that the bible is the word of God, though it is misused/ misquoted often enough. well, let me know your opinions, ask me any questions, and I will be pleased to answer them.

Okay, here is a BRIEF summary of my research. Any ideas that are my original theories, I will state as such.

Section 1: What are angels and Demons?

What are angels? Simply put, angels are divine beings. They are God's messengers and servants; in fact, the Hebrew for angel is 'messenger'. The Greek "Angelos" also means angel or messenger. What they are and their roles are quite a bit more complicated than that, though. What are demons? Demons are angels who, through sin, are no longer divine. They cannot be forgiven, as humans can, because they had an understanding of God and the universe, and sinned anyways. We have no such knowledge, therefore, we can make mistakes without fully understanding the consequences, and can be forgiven because of this.
*I will get into the difference between demons and devils later on, for now, consider demon a 'blanket term' that covers both of them.

Section 2: What do they do/ look like?

What do angels do/ look like? Angels are the protectors of the faithful and the innocent, as well as the dealers in divine retribution. They have a variety of tasks, which include maintaining order in the universe, and aiding in the worship of God. They have a variety of forms and sizes, but when they appear to us visibly, they tend to look human, with some fantastic quality or striking look, like seeming to glow or even be scary. Angels supposedly number in the millions or billions. What do demons do/ look like? Demons corrupt, spread lies and hate, dominate, and endeavor to destroy when ever they can. This is like trying to hurt God because he hurt them (even though he was justified in doing so). Hurting us to hurt God: Humans are God's greatest creation, which he loves very dearly. Any corruption or destruction against that which God loves, is for that purpose. Demons have a variety of forms and sizes, just as angels do, but they have no physical forms (those were destroyed when they fell). When they appear they try to take on a pleasing form, usually. They sometimes show their true forms to frighten people. In that form they look like a large, vaguely human shaped shadow, with claws, and glowing eyes. (yes, I have seen them). It is believed that one-third of the angels became demons. (See Revelation)

Section 3: Historical, and specific angels and demons.

There are only two angels mentioned by name in the bible: Michael, who’s name means ‘Who is like God?’(yes his name is a question); and Gabriel, who’s name means ‘Hero of God’. Michael is the general of the armies of heaven, and fights Lucifer (Satan) at every turn. He showed up on the battlefield a couple of times in the old testament, to aid God’s people. He appeared to a catholic monk, and that monk later built St. Michael’s cathedral on that same location. Michael is also thought to be the angel who appeared with and entire regiment on horseback and helped win a decisive battle against the Nazis in WWII, and vanished after the battle, only leaving the allied troops he rescued. Gabriel is more of a messenger. He is the angel who appeared to Mary to tell her about Jesus, he appeared as the star to guide the wise men to Bethlehem, and he was the one who rolled away the stone from Jesus’ tomb. He is also considered to be the angel of death, although that is a role shared by many angels. Michael and Gabriel together were the angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. There were others not mentioned by name, but referred to as “the angel of the lord”. Raphiel, who healed Jacob after his fight with the mysterious being or 'dark angel'; and Uriel, who is thought to be an angel of punishment, and may have brought the great flood. He probably was the one guarding Eden with his flaming sword.
There are several demons of note: Lucifer (of course), meaning ‘morning star’ was his name as an angel, when he fell, it became Satan; meaning ‘obstacle’. This is who we refer to as the devil. He was the most beautiful of angels, and became vain and hateful; he wanted more and more, and he was cast out of heaven. He is known as the lord of lies and deceit. Michael throws him out of heaven in Revelation. Azazel: Azazel spread forbidden knowledge to corrupt humanity; he spread metallurgy, weapons, cosmetics, and jewelry. It was his influence that caused humans to become so evil, that God destroyed them with the great flood. He was imprisoned in a desert somewhere so could no longer influence humanity, he must remain there until judgment day. Belial: Is a demon who had a strong following in early parts of the old testament, and his followers were called the sons of Belial. The prophet/ judge, Samson killed many sons of Belial. Belial also means ‘worthless’. One more of note is Beelzebub: Name means lord of flies. Also called Baal or Baalzebub. The Baal worshipers were the largest opposing religion to Judaism at the time. The prophet Elijah challenged the followers of Baal, saying that their God could work no wonders. For 2 days, prophets of Baal prayed for him to light the alter with his powers. Then Elijah soaked his alter to God with water, prayed one prayer, and fire from heaven consumed the alter, stones and all.

Section 4: Miscellaneous and angelic script/ sigils.

The angelic scripts are a complicated language, very similar to Hebrew. The characters can be translated to Hebrew, and subsequently, to other languages, but we do not know how to pronounce them in angelic. Each angel and demon has its own sigil, and most of them are very complex. Symbols you might know: The ankh, or Egyptian cross is at the center of the sigil of Lucifer. The eye, the Egyptian one called the eye of Horus, also used by the Illuminati, is the eye of Lucifer, it is also a part of his sigil. Many of the Egyptian gods were actually demons.

The difference Between Devils and Demons

Okay, it can be complicated telling the difference from meeting/ seeing one, though the difference is fairly simple:

Devil = Fallen Angel
Devil = Immortal (has nothing to do with life span, they just cannot be permanently destroyed)
Devil = Very powerful

Demon = Negative energy creature or automaton
Demon = Not immortal (still nothing to do with life span)
Demon = From very weak all the way up to powerful, never as strong as a devil, however

To be more specific:
Devils comprise one-third of the original population of angels which fell from grace when they choose to follow Lucifer instead of God. Demons can be created with negative energy or with chaos energy. They are like negative energy golems, under the control of their masters, and can show up in VERY LARGE numbers. I would also describe them as 'barely sentient blobs of negative energy'. Devils usually appear alone or in small groups. To actually encounter a large number of devils is extremely rare unless you walk into hell itself. Demons even account for quite a few supposed hauntings. With devils, this is the rarest of the rare and I only know of two modern occurrences of a devilish haunting; paranormal researchers and ghost hunters coined the term 'malevolent inhuman entity' to describe these hauntings.

VincentValentine VincentValentine 31-35, M 168 Responses Aug 10, 2009

Your Response


I ran across this site in some of my research and found it very welcoming.Some of the response very very concerning but everyone has their own image.All things evil are demons ,from what I have read.This includes all your Hollywood monsters and mythical creatures.When I almost lost my life in a car wreck I began to notice certain things around me that had been out of sight before.I am far from crazy and have had many test run by doctors to prove there were no damage to my brain to cause what I have been seeing or feeling. I have spent my remaining years researching everything from ancient myths to demons.I believe in people who can pull the evil from a person but I also believe there are chosen ones who search and fight in the name of our lord.If my thoughts are false,please let me know.there are many verses in the Bible that state the fact of people chosen to physically search and fight this evil.What are the signs?I learn more everyday but every book can be read a million different ways my each person who reads.The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make people believe he did not exist!

I want to become a hunter. I want to defend us from these evil beings. Vincent, can you tell me the ways? I know that this is my calling. I feel it.

Hi. This was very interesting to read. I am new here, so I understand if you do not have time to respond or anything.
I am not of Christian faith, but I do believe in God. I believe that God is all powerful. Yet I read here that you believe that demons are evil to the core.
I do understand how it makes sense that to know God and then to turn against God would make someone ultimately evil. But God is all powerful. If God chose to, could not God forgive or redeem a demon that even for a moment helped another being?

Hi Vincent I'm looking for some serious advise, my son and his friends have been plagued by demons for yrs now ... I found out 2 nights ago more about how bad it actually is.
They have told me stories in the past about random encounters, my son belIeves one is now residing in his friends girlfriend. I have trIed talkIng wIth them about ways to avoId these dark thIngs In the past based on my expIrences.... but the other nIght when I watched her faInt, obtaIn a fever In mInutes and lay on my couch In a semI conclusive state... when I accessed her as to a possible medical emergency my son pulled me aside and told me there was a demon in her I questioned it! HIs frIend was sitting over her and I was talking with her whIle she was layIng on my couch about how to rebuke, I then realized there was something in him also it instantly turned on me and I could see and feel instantly that it was in control and angry for me tellIng her how to rId herself .... as soon as I explained rebutal ..... I then turned to him rebuted it, told it to leave it was not welcome In my home....anger flared my walls shuddered and groaned for lack of better words. Another of his friends was also in the room apparently afraid and was attacked mentally into thoughts of death... I left the living area for a min. to think about the confrontation which is very out of character and the responses which were very strong... we I came back in the air seemed to have cleared all the kids where sitting up laughing and talking as normal... she no longer has convulsions or fever ect. He apologized for disrespecting me in my home ... I am not sure what to do wIth this event, I know how to personally protect myself but not others that dont belIeve the same as I do.. I'm feeling strange about it, like it's not over.
I know I have successfully rid some lessor dark things hang around this group of youngest people but not sure about my sons friend and girlfriend, I love these young adults and I'm worried about them especially my son. There is to much to explain in this post so I would like to call someone or have some one contact me plz.

Send me a private message and tell me about your beliefs and the beliefs of the others, I will do what I can to help.

Look man i have a few questions. about a year ago i was messing around with some stupid satanic ****, and i heard about the unforgivable sin it basically is a one way ticket to hell no refunds. Well i did it and i was so mad at the holy spirit that i meant it. well anyway i saw a demon that night if i were to find it, maybe kill it exorcise it. Could i possibly have a chance to get back in gods good graces? Not that i care about the whole christianity thing, hell just doesnt sound like a great option.

You committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Are you sure? If this is true... killing a demon won't change anything...

I don't think you would wan't to be back in Gods grace if you had. It would probably change your want's permanently. The fact that you desire to be under God indicates you should seek out God for the grace of his son and abandon your previous ways. God is a lot more awesome than most realize and If you really know the Holy Ghost of God its almost inconceivable turning back with the awesome experiences he brings and the personal relationship with God you acquire.

Anyways ask the forgiveness of Jesus then seek out to understand the Bible then read about the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost that Jesus promised. Read into the "kingdom of God" and I recommend reading the chapter of Luke 11 that says to be persistent in asking God for the Holy Spirit to dwell in you. Then John 14:26 that the Holy Spirit will be your mentor and guide you in a more personal manner and things will begin to make even more sense though of course that will take time and even then mystery remains as we in this body will never know it all. You will learn personally who God is by interacting with the Holy Spirit and that He is a lot more interesting than most people realize. Though we know him now as through stained glass we will know him better in the beyond.

Some churches if you need people to pray with you that understand the Holy Spirit can be um, Four Square, Vineyard, Pentecostal ect (some don't understand it). It really depends on the maturity level of the people who are all in the progress of growing so ask God where you should go to learn more and if He is there he will hear you and direct your path. Learn to be lead by the Spirit of God and to receive more of it and seek out the word of God if you haven't read the Bible front to back I recommend it.

I think until you have really experienced Holy Ghost you can't deny it. If you really know The Spirit of God I highly doubt you would deny Him and if you did well then I doubt you would want to know Him as you say.

Thank you for this, DTW. It gives me hope - I think even to this point, though I had experienced the Holy Ghost's presence, I was missing the meaning. I was not in a position to find that faith. Perhaps, perhaps it is possible that He will grant me the power to understand how I could have missed the nature of the significance/power I felt back then. That way, I myself might be able to come back.

It grows with time. Baby steps is all it takes. One experience at a time. Some days I wonder if God is there but then I remember all that has happened to me and I can't deny it that He has been there for me. But I go through my bad days from time to time just like everyone.

Luke 17:6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you. (it doesn't take a huge amount of faith to move God just a little)

Mathew 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Math 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
(faith starts out small [we have faith to test the hypothesis] but becomes huge [by our experiences with God {waters our roots}] and becomes the fine strong structure of the kingdom of God in us which is not easily up rooted - faith is not only believing but does start growing that way because it allows us to test the hypothesis and take the risk.)

Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD [is] good: blessed [is] the man [that] trusteth in him.


Also it was the 2nd time I received the Holy Ghost that my relationship with God really started to grow. I kinda went my own way after my 1st experience with God. My teens around 15 or so is when I was drawn back and received the evidence of an unknown tongue by the Holy Ghost then I ended up reading the Bible all the way through later discovering some of the other books like enoch. I am not sure I understand all the strangeness of my own experiences or the Bible completely, hence I seek out other peoples experiences and knowledge as well, but I am still eager to share with other people if I can.

Precisely as with me after my first experiences, adding that when I turned my back, God tried - or was still there trying just the same as always - offering, perhaps. I saw those offerings, and I rejected. I didn't know what it was, noone was having similar experiences, and it seemed even weirder than I was at the time. When I continued my rejection, my life became monotone. I did not take care of my back, and my misery grew in terms of lack of opportunity at work and being underpaid compared to the bosses and even others in the same field.

Now, those demons that came for me then (I can only assume they preyed on my weakness), are turning Zulu people away from me now. They are not sure about me. I came to this place with a beard, hiding something. This side of me. Now I am opening, I have shaved, they see - and they are shocked by the scars I am sure. They are talking to me now, because they know what it is they see - or at least they believe they do. But I do not know if they will ever be able to accept me - as much as I do not know if I will be able to accept myself, my relationship with God, etc.

Thank you for your kind words, your patience with this off-topic discussion, your help, your knowledge of the Bible, and your experiences. I too am eager to learn from others, and also to share. That is another evil working in me: I may be eager to do something, yet it does not happen. It is a common evil, or will of some form of higher being - but I know it not - nor often do I find strength to fight it.

PBWY on this one, everything you have said has helped, nothing you have said is waylaying me - or adding confusion. It's all appreciated.

Your on the right path to acknowledge your inadequacy. Then give it to God and ask him to make you what you need to be. Then just spend time with him from time to time and see what He can do in you rather than focusing on your own inadequacies. If God is God then you will find out. Good luck or blessings my friend.

Many thanks DTW, I think you have hit another nail on the head there.
I also read M Scott Peck Further Along the Road Less Traveled some more today, and found out more about growth. We all abandon opportunities that are presented to us sometimes, and though it does not serve one to belittle what has happened in the past or generalise too far, it is a helpful construct for rationalising :)

I find myself a little too impersonal some times. Maybe its a fault in mine in relating to people but I wanted to try and step out of that and say that I have found some very interesting people and glad I have. You (desper), Vincent and many others. Thanks for sharing your own personal experiences with me.

Do you honestly think God wants you to spend eternity apart from Him in the place the Bible calls hell? No, He doesn't. Instead, He wants you to be with Him in heaven because He loves you. The Bible says, "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance"(2 Peter 3:9).

Those words were written by the Apostle Peter—and if anyone was guilty of denying Christ, it was Peter. Do you remember? Jesus had warned Peter that he would deny Him, but Peter strongly disagreed. Then Jesus was arrested, and when someone asked Peter if he also was a follower of Jesus, "He began to call down curses on himself, and he swore to them, 'I don't know this man'" (Mark 14:71). But Peter repented, and God forgave him—completely and totally. And He will forgive you.

Yes, Jesus said only one sin couldn't be forgiven, and that was "blasphemy against the Spirit" (Matthew 12:31). But what does it mean to blaspheme the Spirit? I have studied Jesus' words very carefully, and it simply means this: To deny the Holy Spirit's witness to Jesus.

In other words, the only sin God can't forgive is the sin of rejecting Christ. But why reject Him any longer? God's promise is for you: "Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:18). Commit your life to Him today.

Brother, heads up on this. To deny the holy spirit, one must first have a complete understanding of what the holy spirit is and entails. It's the same as seeing the sun at noon, and while looking at it, believing with ever fiber of your being that it does not exist. The vast majority of people on this Earth will not be able to commit this sin in their life-times. Just saying that you deny the spirit means nothing. It is the permanence and completion that is in direct opposition to what it talks about in Revelations about having the countenance of God upon you. Keep staying strong, and when you fall, get up. God loves us too much to let us go, even when we do things that we believe are contrary to our eternal design.

8 More Responses

Do you need a werewolf for your team? I'm a very powerful one.

Sorry, this is not a role-playing group / story. I am actually an exorcist and I actually cast out real demons from real people. I do not larp, nor do I play d&d. I wish you well in your endeavors, but please do not treat this sort of thing as a game or you will be attacked by demons in one way or another.

That's unfortunate- I was going to ask if I could be the DM some time for you guys. Don't worry about me getting attacked by demons- I have a lot of HP to soak up the damage from any surprise attacks, and my claws do close to 20 D6 of Holy damage.

^ sarcasm alert ^

I also have a question, which is: Is it possible to turn a bad demon good? I feel like it's probably possible, if you put enough work in.

no. all demons always have been and always will be evil to the core.

They always have been? Some people say they're fallen angels. What do you think, VV? I don't see any reason why a demon couldn't be turned to the light side of the force again.

They are fallen angels. What I mean is that evil is what makes a demon what it is. They can not be redeemed, they cannot become angels again. From a certain level of evil there is no turning back. Having a full knowledge and experience of God and yet defying Him and corrupting His creation while trying to usurp His throne is an act of ultimate evil. You can't come back from that.

Where is that in the Bible?

Let me clarify that actually: Where in the Bible does it talk about a level of evil from which one cannot come back?

One of the gospels (I think) refers to "the unpardonable sin" which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and Revelation states that all who take the mark of the beast or worship his image cannot be forgiven. The Bible also states that hell was created for "the devil and his angels" which alludes to the fact that they cannot be redeemed.

So a person who worships Satan cannot be saved, and is guaranteed to go to Hell?

The beast is the anti-Christ of the end times, not Satan. A person worshiping the anti-Christ (or receiving his mark) cannot be saved and is guaranteed to go to hell, as you said.

It seems odd to me that worshipping the Beast is somehow worse than worshipping Satan. Surely the two stand for similar things, and would like to see the same things happen? How is the Beast worse than Satan? Is the Beast supposedly more powerful than Satan?

No, it's not like that at all. Satan cannot be seen for one, while the beast will be seen. This affects how humans perceive each one, for example, the beast would seem more real in a psychological sense. But besides that, I personally believe that a part of worshiping the beast will be a verbal rejection of God, possibly in a sort of sworn oath. I think it is fairly certain from Revelation that to worship the beast or take his mark one must openly reject his or her salvation / faith. Of course it's true that most satanists never find their way back to God as well, but it does happen sometimes. They frequently mock God, the Bible and Christianity, but I don't think they reject salvation in the manner that is implied in Revelation relating to worshiping the beast. I imagine some satanists have openly rejected their salvation and may not be able to be saved again, but that would be difficult to prove. In any case, the beast will be Satan's mouthpiece on Earth, so there won't be a big difference in worshiping one or the other, save perhaps a ritual rejection of Christianity. So Satan is worse, but people will sin against God in a worse way while following the beast.

That is interesting that you say that the Beast is the Antichrist. I've heard people talk about the Unholy Trinity being The Beast, The False Prophet, and the Antichrist.

As far as I know there is no "unholy trinity". The evil side is not some sort of 'equal opposite', it's a real rebellion against God's sovereignty - meaning that for everything of God there is not always a demonic counterpart. The devil does not rule over hell, he will be a prisoner there the same as any other damned soul, for example. If you read Revelation, you will see that anti-Christ is one of the descriptions used for the beast; and besides that the Bible says (I think its in the book of first Peter, not sure though) that all those who are against God are 'anti-Christs'. There may be room for debate as to whether the beast or the false prophet is THE anti-Christ to be sure, but I think the language used in Revelation is pretty clear if you study it a bit.

I wonder how a human exorcist would do in battle against The Beast. Is it like Godzilla sized, or smaller?

The beast will be a human being.

Ah, that's not very exciting. :/

Hi, I'd like to intrude. Sorry if not welcome!
I am now coming to realisation of these things for myself. I rejected Christ for a while. He did not seem to be a sensible thing to believe in, and I did not see how crises would be allowed to occur on Earth if He existed. I could see free will being a gift, and we were to do with it as we pleased. I could see that in every crisis people were tested, and that if one chooses then one can see great opportunity for love and light in any disaster. It just seemed like for a God to be out there and in here, presiding or watching over it seemed superfluous to my own world/universe view.

Now, however, a great many things have been changing my mind.

I do not know if I have sufficient time left on Earth to repent and accept Christ in all His glory, however I did feel His energy and life (aka love) coursing through my veins as I read this thread. So, I have hope that I am not just forever getting from my current state, half way towards complete acceptance. If you are always getting half way, no matter how close you are you will never make the final leap to completion.

I see that my power now is limited because of my past. Naturally some negatives in life are necessary to achieve balance and understand the positives. But I do not know whether God will grant me the power and love (within this lifetime) to understand/overcome things, feelings, emotions etc. I have allowed to dwell in me.

Finally, the fight against people (true fights, wit vs wit, mind vs mind, emotions and instincts, etc.) is the most interesting of all. To find a weak spot in a dragon is short-lived, but a true fight with another person - that is where the most exertion will come - and the greatest rewards.

Thanks for continuing the discussion on this topic, it's fascinating. I think I'm gonna start studying :)

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I agree with you that going into asstral combat unprepared/unprotected is definitely a bad idea. There are all sorts of diseases you could get.

I always thought that demons are the spirits of people who went to hell and have been tortured.

nope. those spirits are in hell, not messing with us here on earth.

I must carry a generational curse, because I have been tormented for most of my life. I finally pieced together what was happening recently after years of discernment following very frightening experiences with dark forces.

The voices in my head during one of these experiences claimed to be the Greek goddess Diana. I am absolutely positive that all of the "gods" outside the Judeo-Christian faiths are devils. "Diana" claimed that her life sucked, she lived in a cave, and ate raw flesh all day long. The Bible states that the Nephilim were cannibals. Devils must gain something from the consumption of human flesh, which also explains the significance of Christ's Body and Blood.

Imagine being in heaven and then ending up in a cave eating flesh all the time! What a fate. I'd feel bad but they put me through hell.

Correct, all false gods are devils.

It's not just the flesh, it's the blood. The life is in the blood.

Very comprehensive post. Some are called for this, but as you mentioned, don't dabble, in my experiance play with fire and you will get burned. I just think we are given insight/tools as much as we need, not more. Somthing of a question, what are your (maybe some other with experiance) thoughts on males in a bloodline that are more prone (not limited but more likely/often) to experiance the supernatural and why?

That is caused by generational curses from ancestral occult involvement.

Thanks, appreciate the reaponse. I know curses are carried for generations, but is the opposite posible? Encounters/manifistations arround people of strong faith bloodline (almost equiped by God) or do you think that has to be of some kind of 'dark' origen?

Encounters and manifestations in a bloodline always have a dark origin. Now, blessings can be passed on as well, but they always take on a different form and tend to be non-paranormal.

Thanks allot, I am doing some investigation into our history trying to get to the bottom of it but the more I uncover the more it seems to go that route. Appreciate the feedback.

I agree with you there, that we are given as much insight, and all the weapons/energy that we need. Which worries me a bit, because I am gaining a lot of insight and energy lately :/ Thanks for the warning. Everything happens for a reason, including this seemingly irrelevant/tangential reply...

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Demons are b-itches and need to be in the dark pits of h-ell yet again. They have no place on Earth. I know this from my years of experience in the field. It is sad to say that I am 19 and have been in this line of 'work' for 14 1/2 years. I started training when I was 5 to go into the business. I know it sounds cliche but we have been doing this since the early years of the hunters. My ancestors we some of the original hunters. I know it's crazy but I USED to think it was fun, an adrenalin rush you could say, I was young and stupid. I now envy my family for not having to hide it from one another. I am in constant misery in not allowing myself to tell my husband of the life style.

interesting info, i am not a hunter myself, but i found this interesting. though from what i gather Azrael is the angel of death (he bring souls to heaven), gabriel means 'messenger of God' i thought. Uriel is the Archangel of wisdom and means 'God is light'.

sorry, i'm prattling :) but i agree, I fear some people will find Demon hunting as something fun, but it is very dangerous


From what I know, there are various angels of death, rather than just one. Angel means "messenger of God". Gabriel means "God is my strength". Uriel does mean "God is my light", however his exact role is unknown due to overuse on pagan and / or new age ideas in relation to various angels. He is not mentioned in the Bible.

Most people see it as a fun thing and have even romanticized it to a degree, besides that wrong information from new age and pagan circles lead people into even greater danger of their lives and souls.

that is indeed what they are doing, making it seem like something fun and fantasized rather than explain the risk and danger that it is.
part of my higher self remembers Lucifers falling, I still feel the pain and the sadness, all of the angels felt it. and my brothers and sisters who followed him no longer acted out of love and light, but out of hatred and darkness.

I feel pained thinking about it, that is why we must stop it. I cannot simply sit here and watch humanity forever torchered by these dark forces.
While i have not found my calling yet I am thankful there are others such as the demon hunters who can lower their numbers and keep them in line for now.

All demons are evil. Evil is what makes a demon what it is. Why on earth would you believe that they are not all bad anyways? <br />
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I do not speak for the others in this group, but I am an expert, a professional exorcist.

ok so are you saying that a demon by species that is in no way evil in fact was very kind would not be a demon.

No, I am saying that there is no such thing as a demon by species. They are spirit beings that do not reproduce, but that were created by God as angels, and who turned against their creator and His creations, thusly becoming demons. If they are anything by species (despite the fact that species is a classification of plant and animal life, not spirits) then they are angels who chose to be evil, and chose to become demons.

Just to ask what do you lot actually know about this sort of thing? cos you could help me.

Why do you hunt demon's there not all bad?

For those who dont believe - thats 1000% truth that demon can be cast out with any happy song. I once cast one out just singing Hava nagila. No, seriously.

I don't know why I was taken to a random page because someone commented on my comment out of 166 comments. I still like the story. I like the "*coughcatholicscough*," good sense of humour. I enjoy good religious material. But if you ask me, it's human demons who are putting my power out and toying with me in every way they can. If demons are more evil than humans then I would hate to have low energy vibrations or die and go to some low energy plane. Or stick around here for that matter. G-d bless. I didn't read the whole article over again because I was turned off at 'demons causing power outages'. Kinda distracted my attention there. :)

You do know that the OP is not a *cough*Catholic*cough*, no?

'barely sentient blobs of negative energy'<br />
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lol this phrase made me laugh

Willarc, a call for humility from someone who claims to have hidden knowledge that no one else has falls a bit flat. I posted on your comment to clarify things you thought I was doing wrong, btw. I need to point out that I don't just do research, I have years of hands on experience and am guided by God as well. I am a pastor and an exorcist. I do not claim things lightly, nor do I brag or boast. I state the truth of things, as simply and clearly as possible. The fact that you think you know better is fine with me - everyone thinks they are an expert, and everyone has a different opinion. What you are claiming to know however is contradictory to sc<x>ripture, so I doubt you know as much as YOU think you do.

I do understand that sometimes it is difficult to refrain from posting our qualifications. It's kind of a catch 22 situation. I relation to experience- I never said that all you did was research. I just wanted to put it in perspective in relation to your other comment about being an expert. No one is an expert. It is a continual learning process. I have been involved longer than you have been alive. It was only about ten years ago that I learned what was perhaps my most important lesson. I learned it from two unknown (?)older ladys in a church prayer room. It lead me to an entirely new perspective on a specific tactic that evil employs. Everyone is capable of a different perspective and if the body would ever truly get together and co-operate with one another only then would victory be assured.----------------------------I don't believe that I made any comment on what you were doing wrong In fact I commended you for what you were doing. I have never been called to do an exorcism of an individual. We appear to be called to do different things. My comment was in relation to an assumption which I detected on you part. That you were as close to an expert on the subject as was humanly possible. You also in this post said " I state the truth of things, as simply and clearly as possible." As possible or humanly possible imply as good as any human would or could ever do. It was as good as you could do at that time. To imply other wise is to say you have arrived. Which was my point. If you say it you might begin to believe it and that leaves you at the point of not being open to learning. It is important especially when involved in spiritual warfare to not allow any openings for the enemy to use against you. Words are very important. What we do now is less important than what we do when the proper time comes later. This is a learning experience and we learn from failures as welll as victorys. We need to learn as much as we can as quickly as possible because time is getting very short. Believing that they know everything is what is the Churches biggest short comming. ------------------------------------------------------------My intent was never to try to discredit you. Only as you say that you do- to pass on information that might be of some use to individuals under the right circumstances. ----------------------------------------As you say anyone can claim anything on the internet. So it is better to claim as little as possible. I try to let my postings and statements stand on their own merit. We should try to learn to discern the spirit and intent of each individual posters comments..

I disagree when you say no one is an expert. But remember that expert does not mean "knows everything". Experts in many fields learn new things all the time. Just because I know more than most in certain areas of study does not mean that I am not still learning, nor should that ever be assumed by my readers.

My original post didn't take. In it I complemented you on the differentiation between Devils and Demons. In one of your other Stories I noticed that you stated that Demons were once Angels. Well I realized that one didn't match with your desc<x>ription here. When I re-read your Story I found that you posted two contradictory definitions here.<br />
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In your General information section 1. The it states that Demons were once Angels. In the last part of your Story "Difference between Devils and Demons" it states that Demons are negative energy and can be destroyed while Devils are fallen Angels who are immortal. Conclusion that Devils are not Demons. <br />
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It appears that you do a lot of research. There are however problems that arise out of research. There are often errors that are passed on as fact. In the other post I referenced - it was in your response that you gave that definition so I assume that was what you believe then. That your research has led you to this new information.<br />
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You claim that you have been doing this for a long time- 10 years to be exact. Also in one of your other storys claim to have as much knowledge in this subject as is humanly possible. First of all 10 years is not relatively that long a time. I suppose with your resources and research for what you do that time might suffice. I do think you do a valuable service and commend you for it. But howerver don't believe that you know as much as you think you do. There is knowledge that comes from research ( which by the way isn't always true). And then there is a discernment that comes only though the Holy Spirit and it's refinement via experience. The demonic spirits involved in possesion are only one of level spirit. Be aware that there are higher level spirits and warfare that you and the other Church experts are yet not even aware of. So it might be good to acquire a bit more humility. The reality is that the Church is getting it's rear kicked in spiritual warfare. Even when they think they are winning it's only an illusion. The reason is arrogance. They think they have all the answers.

I also said that people in general use the term demon universally, and although I prefer to make a distinction between the two there is not really a difference from the spiritual warfare perspective (ergo the enemy is the enemy, whatever the specifics are) so I tend to use the terms interchangeably unless I need to get technical, like in this story.

I did not say "as much as humanly possible". I did however make a generalization about knowing more on the subject than anyone, but in context of what I was writing at the time, it was clearly a hyperbole.

"The reality is that the Church is getting it's rear kicked in spiritual warfare. "

And wherefrom do you presume to get this piece of information?

I tried to find the comment but didn't so I also made a general guess. It was in the Hunters Code story. In it's re- reading it wasn't totally clear to me if you meant that statement to blanket all Paranormal experiences or just the field of excorcism. I will assume you meant the field of exorcism. Even so it is a constant learning experience and more is constantly being revealed. So we should always be cognizant of our ignorance.

Any time we have the opportunity to educate people in this subject it should be taken. I complemented you for doing so because I have always been disappointed in the lack of specific differentiation on this issue. I do disagree on it not making a difference. One always needs to be aware of what one is dealing with. It's assumptions and what we don't know that that will get us in trouble. Their power comes from deception and illusion. Recognition ( Truth ) is what they fear. In any kind of battle one must always be aware it what whe are facing. Remember when the Apostles tried to exorcise a demon and got beat up. And Jesus told them that this type needed a lot of prayer. There is a scripture for you. It's about discernment first. This is what I mean when I say that it's a constant learning process. Discernment needs to be refined with time.

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Fallen Angels are immortal because what is created by God is immortal. When they fell they became a distorted image's of the Angels that they were created to be. Remember a lie is a distortion of the truth. Demons were not created by God but were a product of Angels in their fallen state. They are in essense a manifest result of the distortion of fallen the Angels reaction to the Law of Matter and thus not eternal. This sort of makes demons the creation ( children ) of the fallen Angels. Which is why they are their responsibility. Authority and Responsibility are tied together and this is why we are authorized to cast out demons but not take authority over them. There is a distinct difference. Just a basic explaination as to why one is immortal and the other isn't. It wasn't something that the fallen Angels necessarily did consciously. Initially it was a consequence of their additude in reaction to the Law of Matter. It was a consequential result of their goal displaced rebellion against Gods purpose in midigating finite matter for the redemption of souls. This interferance and effort to hinder though distortion of the proper use of the Law and thus keeping lost souls from Grace is still their continual driving purpose. I did also mention a third grouping. Because of distinct differences they should not be catagorized as either demons or devils.

It's good to hear someone actually recognizing that every evil driven entity is not a demon. I think you are on the money about your differentiation of the two. I do think that there is another catagory that you have not included. Although they might be catagorized as Devils. They are the most difficult to recognize which is why they are the most dangerious. They are also the last to be recognized. The most powerful being the most subtle. It must be remembered that the core source of the power of evil is deception and illusion. I think the most important thing in dealing with all catagorys is discernment. You must know what you are dealing with. Unfortunetly a lot of people involved in spiritual warfare haven't a clue. This is why it is important to recognize laws and follow rules.I don't mean just the laws of men.<br />
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I don't consider myself a Hunter. But if you have a purpose and are called for a task you will end up having to deal with these issues whether you seek them out or not. It's a war and they will know you before you know yourself and will try to hit you before you can understand what's happening. I did not get my information from study or reading but though experience. Some of the things that are written are complete or just not correct. Bottom line If your not called to it, don't get involved. Even those that believe they know what they are doing are vunerable. Especially if they think you know it all.

Wow, thanks for this story.. Very informative! <br />
God bless you with all your work for the Lord!

This group is very interesting to me. Glad to see that someone is fighting the good fight.

There is a reason people like us work alone. The more you expose yourself to stopping demonic activity, the more you expose yourself to danger. Of course, danger comes with the job. But are you prepared to lose your friends and family? You can't let your war seep into their lives. Keep it secret. Protect your family by working alone. This is a trying job, but someone has to step up and do it. Stay tough, and God bless, Jophiel. <br />
Adfero lux aeterna.<br />
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Protecting Nor Cal, <br />

thank god another person who knows the right answers.i have been studing demonology and everything here is what i have read your the real deal.<br />
you are my new ideal in demon hunting.i would love to ask you more questions if you wouldnt mind? please im a info. sponge i need to learn more.

So I've had many encounters with dark spirits and demons etc. But there are some that are really crazy that have happend to me.the last one was a few weeks ago when my friend wanted me to check out his house because he's seen a shadow figure. Right when we got there we were walking and we saw it and it pointed right at him my friend kept saying that it wants him.I know it couldn't be a demon it was to weak.

demons can give off the appearance of being weak. It is a way of manipulating people.

is that why they tend to mimic children at times?


Absolutely! They might actually really trying to engage you in a confrontation. It serves two purposes. 1. It might be used to distract your actual purpose. 2. A set up easy victory it will give you a false sense of confidence and make you believe this was your calling and you actually knew what you were doing. You would be getting set up for a big fall later. Especially if the method you used violated proper authority. The spirit you believe you are confronting is just the worm on the hook. Use an incorrect method ( break a spiritual law) and you step outside your given authority and in fact intrude into the authority of a more powerful and subtle spirit that is only using the subordinate minion that you were dealing with much as a fisherman would use a worm. ( as bait ).

Absolutely. Also sometimes the demon that is sensed is only the bait used by a far more powerful and subtle entity to draw you in. It would serve two purposes. They will often try to engage a confrontation in order to either draw you off your real path and objective or to give you a false sense of security. They might let you have the appearence of victory. This could be for two reasons. One would be to let you believe that this is what you were called to do. This is a set up for a bigger fall later. If in the process you stepped outside of you authority, breaking a spiritual law, by rather than casting it out, instead bind that spirit you would be stepping into the authority of a more powerful and more subtle spirit. When this is done ( many in the church do this in spiritual warfare) you set yourself up to either attack or subtle control by and under the control of the superior spirit you don't even discern to be there.. I think the most important thing involved is spiritual discernment. In recognizing the spirit involved, when to act and when to walk away. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should. One needs to pray for discerment and guidance for each one of the aforementioned issues.

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I always knew the Egyptian gods were fallen angels. I believe that other gods as well are fallen angels.

The higher level ones are perfectly capable of passing them selves of as such even in this day. There is one that passes himself off as God himself. Another as Micheal. How would the average person know otherwise if a being of light claimed to be such. Christians should follow the chain of command set up by Jesus if they claim to be christians. God- Jesus Christ- the Holy Spirit. Any constant communication that steps outside of this while though not totally impossible, should never the less be cautiously suspect.

Yes, this does happen. They will try to trick you into doing something to invite them back in as well.