Dworkin' It

Qoutes from Andrea Dworkin that she doesn't get as much credit for!

“Genocide begins, however improbably, in the conviction that classes of biological distinction indisputably sanction social and political discrimination”

“By the time we are women, fear is as familiar to us as air. It is our element. We live in it, we inhale it, we exhale it, and most of the time we do not even notice it. Instead of "I am afraid," we say, "I don't want to," or "I don't know how," or "I can't.

" Undernourished, intelligence becomes like the bloated belly of a starving child: swollen, filled with nothing the body can use.”


“The genius of any slave system is found in the dynamics which isolate slaves from each other, obscure the reality of a common condition, and make united rebellion against the oppressor inconceivable."

“Men renounce whatever they have in common with women so as to experience no commonality with women; and what is left, according to men, is one piece of flesh a few inches long, the penis. The penis is sensate; the penis is the man; the man is human; the penis signifies humanity.”


“Men who want to support women in our struggle for freedom and justice should understand that it is not terrifically important to us that they learn to cry; it is important to us that they stop the crimes of violence against us”

“While gossip among women is universally ridiculed as low and trivial, gossip among men, especially if it is about women, is called theory, or idea, or fact.”

“Wild intelligence abhors any narrow world; and the world of women must stay narrow, or the woman is an outlaw. No woman could be Nietzsche or Rimbaud without ending up in a ********** or lobotomized.”



Some of these statements you may agree with others might invoke aversion. I felt it important to show that Andrea Dworkin had a lot more to say than the few qoutes so frequently used against women by various misogynists and other anti-feminists....

I would love to discuss these with the various members of this group!

Vivagalore Vivagalore
31-35, F
8 Responses May 14, 2012

“Men renounce whatever they have in common with women so as to experience no commonality with women; and what is left, according to men, is one piece of flesh a few inches long, the penis. The penis is sensate; the penis is the man; the man is human; the penis signifies humanity.”<br />
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gypsy said...> is this where the saying "I DONT WANT TO BE A MAN I JUST <br />
<br />
WANT to live like one..." comes from ?

Hmmm...haven't heard the statement before.

yea i heard it, gosh..... maybe 10 or 15 years ago ...

iv heard it said among some women,

who say in jest .....

I don't want to get married,

I just need a house wife....

LMAO

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I fail to see anything here that should stoke admiration for Dworkin or counteract the many heinous and shockingly hateful and recklessly false things she said. <br />
<br />
"Men renounce whatever they have in common with women so as to experience no commonality with women;" That's a bizarre thing to say when most men's closest relationships are with wife and with mother. But it is quintessential feminist thought.<br />
<br />
I know this will make the feminists mad, but they don't want to understand the real reason why not being girly is and always will be part of male culture. It's because men are powerfully driven to have female mates. And women reject men who show evidences of not being so masculine. A man even has to be careful about being overly talkative with a woman, especially about his feelings. Because her wuss-detector radar will spring into action! Being very talkative doesn't seem manly to women as well as to men. Women get turned off by wussiness so as to either not let the man get to first ba<x>se, or to lose interest after she is committed to him. Women are hard-wired to prefer masculine men, just like in the animal kingdom, where the alpha male also is the one for whom the female creature spreads her legs. Nobody "makes" women be that way, and in fact the extreme pickiness of women is not at all something that is in the interest of the male sex as a whole. It is in fact a grief to the male sex. It does seem to well accord with Darwinist concepts, although I resoundingly reject the common tendency to treat evolutionary psychology as gospel truth.

You fail to see that while most men find the "pickiness" of women perplexing and a boon.... those preferences are ingrained as part of a patriarchal society.
A lot of people fail to realise that partriarchy doesn't only come at the expense of women, men too are harmed, this would be one instance.

Men not free to be who they really are for fear women won't choose them because they are not masculine enough.

And to be fair, most people no matter the sex don't enjoy overly emotionally needy people... truthfully both sexes have coined terms to show disapproval regarding this.

Hysteria
Man-Child
Nagging
Panty waist....

Its the same thing for both sexes.

It's not from "patriarchal society." You are really straining credulity, to hold that....if only if weren't for that evil cultural artifact known as patriarchy, then we could confidently expect to see the mating behavior of female humans be drastically different from the mating behavior of female animals.

P.S. noone is suggesting that someone should either admire or villify Andrea Dworkin.

Its a discussion about her views on things other than what made her infamous or famous (depending on who you ask) which was rape.

Hope this clears up any confusion

Excuse me but, if you can't recognize the influence of our society on gender and therefore sexual interactions then you would be better to post on another subject in another area of EP. Patriarchy is not a cultural artifact as you suggest, if you are unable to see it present in our current culture then I would once again suggest posting on another subject. Finally to suggest that the sexual habits of the modern human is merely "mating" shows a lack of understanding on the issue, I suggest a few entry level courses at the local community college on human sexuality.

Sexual behaviors of various species do drastically differ from one another.

Sexual behaviors of the same species in different geological areas also vary greatly.

Sexual behaviors of various species do adapt and evolve.

Sexual behaviors in many species are not merely for "mating".

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“While gossip among women is universally ridiculed as low and trivial, <br />
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gypsy said..> I work in one of the most gossip environments there is .... I'm not seeing where female gossip is considered to be on the low end of the totem pole, and trivial... <br />
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iv seen gossip bring down the strongest among us ... undermine a whole work environment, destroyed careers ..... bring two or more people at total odds with each other, to the point where one had to quit or be wrote up.<br />
<br />
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so in mho.... gossip among women can be very destructive and powerful..... far from trivial <br />
<br />
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(in some circumstances I can see where gossip could be used as a useful tool, but percentage is low)

Someone please tell knight that he is not allowed to post fiction or libel on my stories and that he really shows a serious lack of character in even posting on my stories at all seeing as he has blocked me and almost every other female on EP.

I find it a bit distasteful myself but, to each their own.

He is only following Greenie who has done the same.

It is a LOT cowardly, Thomas. There are many women and men the anti- feminists have blocked. Anyone who questions their stories and "facts." They obviously have so little confidence in their rhetoric, they have to cut out the opposition. It's kind of like a toddler covering his face with his hands to hide from someone. Ha! They are cowardly and childlike.

@ green you may post useful relevent information on my stories (even though you don't allow me the same privileges and have blocked me) however you may not use them to attack ANYONE.<br />
This is not up for discussion or debate... you may post only to comment about the topic...anything else will be reported.<br />
<br />
If you continue to abuse this privilege or harass anyone on my stories, you will be reported and if needed censored.<br />
<br />
Show some couth and common decency or go elsewhere to post your same song filth.

Thank you goliath...

Hahaha..here come the clowns! I think Greenbare and Runner should grow some balls and stop blocking like girls.

@lilt.... lmao....you are on a roll today!

I agree, MissFree. The most derogatory insults to a man involve some reference to being feminine. It starts early..."you throw like a girl." Then proceeds to the genital parts. Maybe it's just me, but I am not digging the, now very common phrase, "grow some balls." I know they are just words, but they are telling words. Balls are strength. ***** is weak.

Until the philosophy which hold one race superior<br />
And another<br />
Inferior<br />
Is finally<br />
And permanently<br />
Discredited<br />
And abandoned -<br />
Everywhere is war - Bob Marley<br />
<br />
Fits with respect to the battle of the sexes, until both agree that neither is superior, just different, then a state of "War" exists. <br />
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“Wild intelligence abhors any narrow world; and the world of women must stay narrow, or the woman is an outlaw. No woman could be Nietzsche or Rimbaud without ending up in a ********** or lobotomized.” I give the cases of Simone-Ernestine-Lucie-Marie Bertrand de Beauvoir, Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace, Andrea Dworkin herself as refutation to this statement. Causes can be corrupted by ego very easily, we are moving into an age where women will shine as brightly as the sun, as they always have to the enlightened, if they allow themselves to.

I would have to question your use of Dworkin herself as a example of refutation...she was villianized on both sides of the issue her motives and sanity were often called into question and openly mocked...while not lobotomized in the literal sense wasn't she often relegated to the status of "*****" or "lobotomite" by the public opinion.

Good, I tend to disregard her as well, That was the point, some of us have sisters that display "Wild intelligence" and are neither "******" or "lobbotomites". Can you think of an example of a woman in your life with such intelligences that also breaks Dworkin's thesis?

I believe you have to take this qoute within the context of the time it was given... I believe often times women of great genius were relegated to the fringes of society or their genius disregarded simply because it was a woman who thought of it... I feel there are always exceptions that prove the rule... I also believe we are making great strides in this general area at least within western societies.

"While gossip amongst women is universally ridiculed as low and trivial, gossip among men, especially if it is about women, is called theory or idea or fact."<br />
<br />
I do believe this is so very true and is in fact the very essence of sexism, stereotypes, and misogyny.<br />
It is for example common rhetoric that women are considered emotionally weaker and mentally frailer and therefore easier to manipulate and this is why men make more capable leaders. I cannot tell you how many times I have read this particular theme of sexist garbage on EP by both men and women! Despite not a shred of scientific evidence nor scholarly study this nonsense is spouted as fact!

When you live in a patriarchal society there is no need for "proof" or "evidence" because there is no questioning of their "facts, ideas or theories"...

Thomas you cheeky one! LMAO!

Haha!

Female theorists and thinkers from Hypatia onwards have been sidelined or pigeonholed, sadly. To take your above point, gumshoe, the idea that women are somehow 'emotionally weaker and mentally frailer' is the complete opposite of the truth. I have always sought the counsel of women for my own myriad emotional frialties because of their emotional intelligence.

Awh miz this is sweet, i have to say I've relied on many good men for support and emotional guidance... men while taught to hide it and repress it are often quite deep and emotional underneath the surface

Aww mizzen you are a complete sweetheart. I have a feeling that you would be wonderfully supportive and highly emotionally intelligent.

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