Rape!

For some puzzling reason there is a persistent idea that rape is a sex crime. It isn’t. At its worst it is a crime of hate, a wish to subjugate and demolish the victim, destroy their confidence and self esteem. It is also worth noting that men also run the risk of being raped - not by homosexuals but by HETEROsexual men. Yes! Furthermore male rape is not as uncommon as most people realise. Lust driven? Not at all. It can be because the rapist envies a guy his car, his woman, his income! The rapist wants his victim to lose face and feel bad about themselves.
Whenever I hear men say that women lie about being raped I shudder, because I think that what they want is the right in law (which they practically have anyway, because it is such a difficult crime to prove) to rape away to their heart’s content. Reporting a rape is so traumatising in itself, irrespective of the gender of the victim because of that loss of face, instances of false accusations are extremely rare. The preliminary investigation is like a fresh rape in itself. The demoralising effects of a rape cannot be sufficiently stressed. For that reason alone huge numbers of rapes go unreported.
Everyone can agree that when a woman (or any other type of human being) says ‘no’ she might not mean it. But ‘no’ NEVER means ‘yes.’ It NEVER means ‘feel free to dive in.’ What ‘no’ that doesn’t mean ‘no’ actually means is, ‘persuade me a bit more.’ And in circumstances like this you know you’ve raped someone if her response is tears and revulsion, and yours is anger instead of concern for her well-being and remorse.

Thinking of rape as sex is a red herring.  Rape is a crime of violence NOT even remotely motivated by sexual lust.  Substitute 'knifed in the stomach" every time someone says 'rape' and you'll get an idea of how incongruous it sounds to mistake it for sex
damselfly damselfly
56-60, F
34 Responses May 18, 2012

Hylier - I went to check out the link you posted re: the rape of that 11 year old girl and I couldnt find your post when I came back (Thanks EP! Love how I have to scroll through every thread each time...)

What I wanted to say is that from the article: "All in all, 18 teenage boys and men in their twenties are now charged with participating...." My god, how do we get to that place in society when 18 boys/men gang rape an 11 year old?? And them some BLAME her for it??

Texas and the Cult of Football.
High School football players can get away with a LOT down here. Like Steubenville, only it's the whole freakin' state.
Too...
Since the little girl was Latina and the men were African-American (not sure if all were, but some were) there was racism stirred up-I know Quanell X decided he needed to intrude upon this and get himself on the news...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanell_X

Quanell's more than a bit of a local media wh0r3...

Thank you. I just read the link and what Quanell X said about the 11 year old.... no wonder victims are terrified to speak up sometimes!

I hate this post.
Are you a rapist? Then how can you claim to know what motivates an attacker?? It's true that rapists all have different motives. But they center around the same idea. And it's NOT a hate crime. It's lust.

What? Everyone has known for the past 30 years or so that rape has nothing to do with lust. It's about control. Asserting their power over another person and causing them great harm.
By saying "it's lust" you make rape almost sound like a compliment. Which is most certainly isn't.

Woow, hold on a second lohla.
Rape might have little to do with sex, but i'm 100% sure that lust is a factor. Lust is diverse.

The problem with the whole "rape is a compliment" bullsh*t is that rapists and rape-enablers (a.k.a. almost the entire society) really do believe that.
It isn't a compliment, it's a freaking crime, but rapists do justify their actions with that stuff, so it does play a part in their motivation.

Lust and rage overlap, just like sex and violence. It shouldn't, but it does. Don't ask me why though, i wish i knew the answer.
If anyone knows (Hylie?), please tell me. ;)

Wait- I'm the one that said "rape isn't a compliment."
And I guess if we are talking about lust in the sense of "lusting for power" and not the sexual lust - then I could get on board with that line of thinking. The do "lust for control and power" over another person. I read a book called Protecting the Gift which explained why some straight male rapists would rape little boys. It was about domination over same sex but not sexual lust.

Since vulnerability in the victim is the leading factor and sexual attractiveness is most definitely not, lust can be ruled out as motivation in the huge majority of rapes. Unless you're talking about lust for criminality, and not sexual lust

But isn't the vulnerability what makes the perp feel sexual lust? If the sex industry is any indicator of sexual lust: it tells us that domination and vulnerability of the other is "hot".
I think you cannot devide this as strictly, it would be othering. I refuse to believe that rapists are a rare, special, sick kind of human.

"Rape is a crime, videotape and distribute it and it suddenly becomes p0rn."

You say " I refuse to believe that rapists are a rare, special, sick kind of human."

But why? The truth is- they are a rare special sick kind of human..

No they're not! A lot of people have the potential to rape, just like a lot of people have the potential to kill.
If you refer to serial rapists: yes, i might agree. But rapists really are common in the broader sense of the word.

That's the whole deal with rape culture and blurred lines. An entire society doesn't blur lines to protect a few sicko's, blurred lines are there because a lot of men operate in that grey area of consent!

And seriously, i'm going to make myself a sandwich before i start to play a game if "rape or not?" with hardcore p0rn clips, because this convo ****** me off!

But I don't see why you're pissed because I don't see anyone arguing that blurred lines isn't rape. No means no and is rape. No one is arguing that.

However, I spend a lot of time on ILIASM group and I will say that I've seen hundreds of men say they do not like sex with their wife is they feel she is not enjoying herself and only doing it as a duty. They want an enthusiastic partner. So I don't believe "rape desire" is a default emotion for people.
But that doesn't mean I think there is any excuse for rape...
It feels like my words are not being taken at face value.

Thank you for restoring some faith in humanity for me. Married, loyal people who want a consenting, enthousiastic partner, i'm glad they still exist. :)
Maybe it's partially a generational problem too, i don't know, if i look around me, tons of guys around my age only want to have violent sex with "hot chicks" without any responsibility.
Those men could as well be rapists, they don't care about real consent or the girl in their bed. I do believe that people like that are not 'rare, special sicko's', i believe they're quite average.
And that is a cultural problem that we HAVE to acknowledge and than eradicate. We have to admit that we are raising rapists in this pornified rape culture full of "blurred lines", so we can stop it and start doing some actual rape prevention.

In ILIASM we refer to sex given not with joy but with the attitude of ticking a distasteful chore off the list as "duty sex."
I got duty sex. It's HORRIBLE. It's like eating a candy only to find cardboard inside. Like tasting a cake baked with salt, not sugar. Like near beer, or decaffeinated instant coffee.
...For me, the primary desire I have is to please my partner and bond with them.
I want this more than I want my own org@sm...I mean, I can get those when left to my own devices...Yes, THOSE sorts of devices...:p

Well, there you said it: you hope most people can tell the difference. I believe that we have reached a point in time where the difference is blurred too much.
Maybe a few decades ago, people would see violent sex, a woman crying or gagging, mumbled screaming with an expression of horror on her face and en masse say "that's rape".
You know what's a likely response from guys my age now? "Hot! She likes it rough! I wanna do that sl*t like that too".

Do you see my point now? Sex has become so violent and so widely accepted as violent, that the difference with consent really IS thin. Indicators of nonconsentuality (like crying, agression etc.) are not percieved as such anymore, wich feeds rape culture on a whole new level.
How many rape cases resulted in acquital because of the "she likes it rough"-defense? This is why sexposi's are our fifth column: they only enable this problem in society. When everyone is looking out for "rare sicko's", they are not noticing the young man who's main sex ed has been hardcore p0rn for all of his adolescent life. What do you think happens when he sleeps with a sensitive, insecure girl? Doesn't anyone feel responsible for that?

Bloody shame... and now we're acting all surprised when boys and men rape women like p0rnstars. Do you really think a guy can respect sex with a girl after daily/weekly seeing a teenage girl being raped in the throat? Anally raped by 2 or 3 penisses at the same time? Violently f*cked without even a "good afternoon" by 6 men, for 3, 5, 10 years of his life?! Wake the **** up!

Unless we can get into the mind of every rapist during every rape, we cannot truly understand why they do what they do .
I think they are driven by different things at different times.
Even one rapist could rape for different reasons on different occasions.

Yes we can understand why people do what they do. We can observe. That's how we know

We cannot observe them .. they don't rape with an audience, and even watching them wouldn't tell you what's going through their mind.
In one rape alone, the rapist may initially be driven by 'lust', but when they are rejected, it changes to 'control', and may turn to 'hate'. There could be a combination of reasons why they do it.

I hope it's the truth. The 'rape is an expression of lust' line means that all men are potential rapists but that most manage to keep their urges in check. I think it's nonsense - rape is mostly an expression of anger at the female sex, a way of humiliating and punishing women. The word 'lust' has confused the debate - lust isn't necessarily sexual: we talk of blood lust and lust for life. If one were to say that rape is not an expression of sexual desire, everything would be much clearer.

Thank you RedBandit, that's what i am talking about.

People seem to forget that motivations to rape are more than just the mindset of convicted serial rapists. What rape is qualifies in this discussion too, just like how "the desire to rape" in a cultural context is relevant too, not only "they who raped without a doubt".

Just admit that masculine sexuality has become violent, denying it and claiming "just a few sicko's" is not going to help.
Fact is, most men do not take into account consent in their ideas about sex, proof of that is the mass objectification of women (with hardcore p0rn as the literal and ultimate example). So please, do us all a favour and stop denying it so we can create a safe culture if consent instead of this rape culture.

Freaking sexposi breeders... you can't have your cake and eat it too you know.
I love men too and i thimk sex should be fun, but sex cannot be fun or safe without getting rid of violent sexuality as the mainstream!

Hmpf, i shouldn't have called anyone a breeder, that wasn't very nice. Sometimes i just get mad that my fellow feminists are the opposing party in some debates.
I apologise.

I didn't know what sexposi meant. I pretended you were trying to compliment me. :p

...Wait, people think I'm a guy a lot...O.o
*Snort* considering my gender issues, it tickles me no end when they do.

Hylie a guy? Nah, Hylie is queer as hell. :D

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It's good to see this so clearly stated and it's distressing that good people don't understand that it's true. Perhaps the problem they have accepting it is that it ascribes a motivation and explanation to rape which the perpertators themselves would deny and it doesn't fit so well in the blurred area of date rape, which can start with consensual sexual contact born of mutual lust and then turn into something malign. The problem is that for as long as we think men are driven to rape by lust, we will think that their victims are to blame for inflaming them.

Diolch yn fawr, Cariad

You're more daff than taff, petal. And you're welcome.

Ahhh Garcia, thank you for posting this. Yes.... exactly.

(He called me petal, rubies.) Yay!

That was pretty sweet. (You should see what I get called.............)

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I strongly disagree with you. I would love to know where you came up with something so preposterous. The woman afterwards feels very degraded and demoralized. She has been broken; but that's the afteraffects that she deals with. The reason men rape is lust. There also are the men that crave dominance and to be in control of a woman. That too, is purely a sexual desire. I have been there. Had a man on top of me trying to force me to be his pleasure (on more than one occasion) I assure you, it wasn't because he wanted to demoralize me. He couldn't care less how I felt. He just wanted his pleasure.

I believe it is the same for male rape victims

I think it's about power foremost, lust second...but that's based on my own experience.
I've said before it's *entirely* about power. I guess that's not entirely true...
I suspect if one took a bunch of rapists and plotted their motivations on a grid (not that you'd actually be able to, but saying you could) I suspect one would find it was more about power than lust, in the main, but not absolutely one or the other, if that makes sense?
Social behavior in populations is notoriously fuzzy like that.

If having that power over someone else turns them on, then it's a sexual desire.

No it isn't. That's like saying fancying steak and chips when you're hungry is a sexual desire. There are more kinds of desire than sexual, and grabbing what you want when you aren't entitled to it is criminal

...And it's a weird sort of lust. A desire for copulation regardless of what the human being they are using thinks or feels. They project whatever feelings they *want* the victim to have onto the victim.

It's wrong no matter what and rapists are selfish people

Of course it's horribly wrong...but the thing is rape victims get blamed for being too "tempting," right? or maybe they were gay and "wanted it" in the case of raped men?
...So the argument makes me really nervous. There may be some truth to the matter, but it comes REALLY close to saying, in effect, "well, he(or occasionally she) couldn't help themselves..."
Which is the hugest piece of bullcrap. Of course it was 100% the perp's fault!

To add on this -as i too believe rape is often a sex crime too-: it wouldn't be weird for a rapist to think stuff like "rape is like using a prostitute when you're broke". I honestly believe some rapists are like a dark type of Johns: they view all women as there for their pleasure and for some reason, don't think it's worth the money.
I can totally see a rapist regarding rohypnol as "cheaper than a callgirl". That is so often the problem: the feelings of entitlement and just.not.caring.

It's what they learn in this society anyway: girls are objects, use them.

@ Hylie: i disagree, it comes awefully close to "men's default setting is rapist". But that is not biology! It's socialization! That is what Patriarchy does to buys and men, this **** is what they get teached from a very young age! Look around, how can we expect boys to not grow into pervy pushers when THIS is the world they grow up in?!
We have to change this culture!

(I came up with this from working for VIctim Support directly with rape victims for around 15 years)

What you are mistaking is the way the victim feels and the reason the attacker strikes. The attacker doesn't care how the victim feels, he\she just wants the sexual satisfaction. The feelings victim feels are a result of the trauma! Not the reason the attacker strikes

sexual satisfaction can be had with one hand and a tissue. Taking someone else down is about power. And the main difference between women getting raped and men getting raped is the way the victim is responded to afterwards. Women get **** shamed for dressing, behaving, talking provocatively, for being alone (etc); and men get sneered at for their lack of manliness. It's all devastating, and that is the aim

You're wrong. It's that simple. I have been there. Not just heard it second hand.

And an fyi, using your hand and a tissue is NOT as satisfying as doing it with someone. It's about sexual passion. That is all. And yes, being in control (if it turns them on) IS a form of sexual desire

Rapists are motivated by different things: an extension of rage, those who have a need to control/ have power over their victims, and those who obtain sexual pleasure out of inflicting pain on people.

It's a a criminal pathology for which there are differing opinions as to the contributing factors.

@ J...mine was about power. He wanted to compensate for the way he felt powerless, and for the anger he had at his wife.
...Anecdote, no matter how awful, isn't statistic.

Research says that rapists do it in general because they are angry at women and they feel entitled to sex.

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AS a man I cannot for the life of me understand anyone who commits rape! for me there is no bigger excitement than a willing partner, My only reason on being against castration is the fear that they would then bring about a terrible vengeance on another victim!

I fear that too.
The problem lies in their brain, not their **** !

I see rape as being in two groups. you have what people call statutory rape. meaning any young female under the age of 18 is classified under that group. some examples are: 15 yr old female sleeps with 18 yr old or vice versa. then gets mad and tells on him. guy goes to jail and is now a ********* for the rest of his life. you also have the parents who don't like the guy same thing guy is now a *********. then you have the state...which at this point I don't agree with, if the girl has consented, the parents have said it was ok they wish not to press charges, then why does the state assume it can? where is the legal justification of that? now while on this same subject you have unconsent those would be your child molesters, date rape, ect ect ect. then you have of age group. anyone above the 18 yr old line. in that case its simply male word vs's female word. I know of one case where a guy and girl both of age, decided to have anal sex, however anal sex is illegal in texas, my state, so the guy dumped the girl and guess what? hes now being charged over anal rape cause of some hurt feelings by her. they both had moved on from the previous relationship, but because it was a "rape" case only due to the fact of it being illegal the d.a. decided to pursue it anyway. date rape falls under both groups cause no female can consent when their being drugged that is where it is a sex crime. either way you slice rape is wrong.

good post.

Thank you for posting this story.....articulately written, and I agree with you whole heartedly.....that's why I find it unfathomable that some women on EP have a "rape fantasy"......I truly believe that they really wouldn't want to be traumatized in such a horrific way, but merely like the idea of "rough sex".......rape is calculated, evil...a crime of power and domination, and in no way should it ever be fantasized about nor made to seem exciting......and all offenders should be castrated with a blunt butter knife....!!!

Thank you for taking the time to write this story to educate all on the damage that rape can have....

Love your avatar....Private Benjamin was a terrific flick.....:)

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Although rape isn't something I fantasize about, I have a lot of sexual kinks that I'm not proud of and would lose immediately if I could. You cant blame someone for what they like or fantasize about! Rape is a horrid crime, but you should be talking badly about rapists! Not women/men who ENJOY thinking about being raped or simulating rape because the fact is if they enjoy it and ask for it, it's not rape nor a crime

You can disagree with me all you like, but if you've actually READ some of the "rape fantasies" that have been posted on this site, I would like to think that they would turn your stomach.....whatever kink or fetish that you have in regards to "rough sex"...is all on you, but there is an inordinate amount of EP'ers on here that think that a rape fantasy is something dark, and sexy...whilst it is not.... the idea of being forced to do something against your will, shouldn't be considered a fantasy......as for speaking ill of rapists....my opinion on them should be made evident in my post......they should all be castrated....force fed their penises, have their mouths sewn shut....THEN lit aflame....how's that for subtlety....? When a woman clearly states that she has a "rape fantasy"...it leaves no doubt to the mind that they are in fact referencing the CRIME of rape....unless they otherwise state that what they really seek, is rough and violent sex......there is nothing wrong with having certain fetishes and kinks....I have a very open mind about that...but when it comes to fantasizing about a crime which is based on VIOLENCE, HUMILIATION, and POWER...I have every right to take offense.....you've obviously misunderstood the point that I was making.....too bad for you...!

this above post of mine is in response to the EP'er...Ummmokay.....

I was responding to Ummokay, but I do appreciate your reply, Hank.....if women out there persist on having "rape fantasies"...then perhaps labeling it by another name would be less offensive....because when I see the word "rape"....I get quite agitated....as you can tell....and to me referring to a fantasy of that nature, would seem to be a slap in the face to the many brave rape survivors out there.......as for those other types of fantasies you've mentioned...to each their own....;) we all are different, and different things arouse us.....so live and let live.....

As for castration...that's just the 1st step in how all convicted rapists should be punished...! Good thing I'm not a judge....because I'd be a hanging one....;)

@ blackgirl71: you mean ravishment? I think it was the artist formerly known as Dente who wrote a good story about that.

@Scar....ravishment is the ideal word to describe that particular fantasy.....!

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I like your story, but i cannot agree with you. Sometimes rape IS a sex crime. I was raped by someone who really wanted sex no matter if it was consensual, he didn't hate me, he didn't want to damage me. In fact, nothing about what he did was about me, that was the whole problem: it was selfish, his pleasure was a priority over my pain.

So can we stop feeding this myth? It doesn't help the cause, saying rape is (always) a violent/hate crime makes a good defense to acquit guilty rapists.

You saved me the trouble Scar ... rape is not always about a violent act.. sometimes it's about being selfish , and about ownership of another .

Women can rape....... and when adults rape minors its a selfish act .
Some women do lie about rape ... when they have regrets the morning after ( during their walk of shame ). They can be 'all in ' tonight and cry rape tomorrow . You can't hold a guy responsible for that.

Don't lump Scar into your disgusting display of rape apologia.

I only agreed with her on the "someone who wanted sex no matter what ".What's your issue ?

Not too aggressive Dente, i think happiness means with "some women", that "the walk of shame" could be a reason who a few women do make a false accusation. It barely happens, but it could be a motivation.

I once knew a girl who made a false rape accusation, but she was mentally ill (borderline PD) and did it as punishment, she was 15, he was 19, she wanted a relationship, he just that one night of sex.
The MRM shouting about evidence is strange, she had a full condom she fished out of the bin, how many victims have that? People are stupid really, because their attitudes blame victims , but prove great cover for the few psycho's who do these things.

Needless to say, i broke contact with her after she confessed that story, he actually did time, dangerous girl.

Oh wait, that last line is dodgy... you totally can hold a guy responsible for that! If a girl is drunk, she cannot consent, same goes for guys of course.

Scar -

Hapiness is using **** shaming as proof of false rape accusations.

When damsel said " In the UK ( a police officer told me this at a Victim Support seminar) that any rape victim coming forward to report a crime against her who appears to be high on recreational drugs will first be arrested and prosecuted before the crime against her is even considered"


Happiness answered " And that is a very good example to all women .... don't get plastered !"


This person is very much a rape apologist.

Happiness didn't put walk of shame in quotes because happiness thinks it's real and that people should be ashamed.

Oh damn! I disagree with that! Happiness, girl, wake up! You're smarter than this. :)

I know - I'm utterly sickened by people blaming the victim, but I can't help thinking they do it to make themselves feel better in some way.

However, heed the message. Ladies, never step outside the house unescorted by a chaperone, always remain wrapped in in shrouds, if you fall asleep do it in a locked room, alone, and never under any circumstances be alone with a man - otherwise whatever is forced upon you is YOUR FAULT and your fault alone! How can any man reasonably be expected to keep his willy to himself in the presence of a woman?

But what if the chaperone is the rapist? Oh sorry, of course, it must mean you flirted, totally asking for it!

Remember Dan with his "flirting 11 year old girls who were asking for it" argument?

WTF ?
I never blamed the victim !
Scar ... yes , some women regret it the morning after and cry rape . It's wrong , but it happens .
Dente....**** shaming ? I don't even consider women to be *****. not using quotation marks make you think this ?
I do not excuse ANY cases of rape .
I was sexually molested at a very young age , by a total stranger.
I was raped by a boyfriend at 15 , because I dumped him.
I happen to have 2 brother in laws in the police force ( 20 years each ) '
One is in charge of a station , the other investigates sex crimes.
ALL cases are treated seriously !
"a very good example to women "...absolutely ..keep your wits about you , the world can be evil ... we all know that .
"Wake up ".. I woke up long before you did about the dangers in this world . And none of this has turned me into a man hater . I have had women in my life that I hate more than the men who hurt me.
I do not take **** from anyone , male or female .
I will be the first one to put my hand up to execute sex offenders .

I have to say that the 'don't get plastered' line looks like ****-shaming and victim-blaming whether that was your intention or not. It betrays an underlying attitude that it's the victims' fault. The responsibility for rape lies squarely with the rapist who makes that decision and nobody else.

Happiness why then do you even think a walk of shame is possible?
Why is your answer "women should not get plastered"... I'm sorry but that type of rhetoric is victim blamey and **** shamey.

@ Scar "Oh wait, that last line is dodgy... you totally can hold a guy responsible for that! If a girl is drunk, she cannot consent, same goes for guys of course." You say the girl was 15? Most place that is regarded in law as too young to give consent, and if he's 19 he's and adult - therefore it's rape and not a false accusation

Oh my god... how can i be so dumb? You're absolutely right damsel, she might have reported him with a wrong mindset, but it's indeed statutory rape.

"don't get plastered "... this is not **** shaming , victim blaming , it's common sense!
Plastered, wasted, pissed, blind , off your face... call it what you want ... they all put you in harms way !
When you get yourself into that state bad things can happen to you.
Fall down the stairs , lose your phone , purse, get hit by a car, get robbed, bashed, raped or murdered. You judgement and ability to protect yourself is greatly impaired.
When you're that impaired, you can't really give consent to having sex, and you can't tell them to **** off either ! That is no excuse for being taken advantage of , but YOU have reduced your ability to control any situation. That is dumb, no matter how you look at it.
Dente...of course 'walk of shame 'is possible. Many people make bad decisions that seemed like a good idea at the time. The morning after... it's easy to regret things you've done. Whether you had a fight with your best friend , made a fool of yourself, kissed someone else's partner , or had sex with someone. Hell.. sometimes people don't regret the sex ... they regret that it was unprotected... last night , that wasn't an issue, but now it is.
The shame , is their OWN shame and regret , nothing to do with the rest of us.

Now that really is rape excusing, robbery excusing and murdering excusing.

Incredible !
Avoiding risks ( that will always be out there ) is common sense.
It has nothing to do with what I think of the perpetrator !
I am not excusing any or them .

Anyone who rapes a drunk is a 100% criminal just as much as if the victim was helpless because s/he were comatose in a hospital. (And yes, it DOES happen) And anyone who is too drunk/sick/disabled/young to give consent is not inviting sexual intercourse by being too drunk/sick/disable/young. Suggesting that a victim who has not given consent is in any way at fault makes you a rape excuser

FOR THE LAST TIME .
Anyone who rapes another is 100% guilty of the crime .
The Victim is 100% innocent of any invitation for that to happen .
My Mum was sexually assaulted by a "student doctor " during the night , while in hospital after a miscarriage .
What do you think I am ?

I'm on your side ... but I refuse to accept that it is a good idea to make it easier to become a victim. We know bad things happen ... protect yourself the best way you can at all times. Give yourself a fighting chance . Would it be better to be unable to fight back and allow some monster rape you, or would you prefer to be able to inflict great pain on him and get away ?

This really is rape apologia and victim blaming. Sorry but it is.

\" Would it be better to be unable to fight back \"

It would be better not to have to behave in certain ways merely because I have a vagina.

The logic you are using is the same logic that has women in the middle east wearing burqas and unable to leave their homes without a male guardian.

LOL... there is no point me trying to reason with the unreasonable !

Unable to fight back because you got yourself so stoned, or drunk, or both is a stupid thing to do .
You can argue with this as much as you want .

I basically look at it as, \'Would a man be advised not to get drunk/party/etc in the same situation?\' and the answer is inevitably \'no\'. We kinda \'high five\' guys in regards to heavy drinking and getting drunk.

The line of thinking towards women, \'Well, you WERE drinking, so you can\'t be TOO surprised\' is unfortunately quite ingrained in our society.

OH bloody hell EP, now there is a formatting issue when we post? *weeps*

I will give my sons the exact same advice ... don\'t put yourself in a position of being unable to defend yourself .
What is the point of them learning Martial Arts, all their lives, if the time at which they may need to use it for self defence, it is useless because they can\'t see straight .
I am not telling people to not enjoy themselves , i\'m saying , if you are not in a safe place, where it is unlikely that bad people can approach you, don\'t lose your ability to use all your senses .
Before I had kids , I only had to worry about myself ! Now I see the dangers differently . Any parent would want their kids to be safe at all times . Unfortunately , we can\'t control other people , but we can protect ourselves.
Like I said , the victim is never at fault ... but if I jump into the sea, I had better be able to swim , especially when I know that there are sharks out there .

Happiness since the majority (vast majority) of rapes happen at college should women not go to college? Since the vast majority of rape is date rape, wherein the rapist is a known and trusted person to the victim, should we never trust men ?

happiness I really do think your heart is in the right place, but you are kind of missing the point of who is to blame for rape. It is always the rapist, never the victim. Once you start blaming the victim you are excusing the rapist. Men are quite capable of controlling themselves no matter how drunk or attractive a fellow human being is. Rapists have to make that decision, consciously. In fact it isn\'t unknown for women to become pregnant while in a coma in hospital - not so common since DNA fingerprinting; none the less it has happened

I think Happiness has the point.
She has been violated and abused in the most heinous ways. If she wants to protect herself and others from this crime, she has that right. I think it is incredibly insensitive for anyone to question and challenge her voice.

Thank you Lilt .

How many times do I have to say it ?????
The victim is never to blame is a rape situation !!!!!!
Good advice is good advice, take it or leave it !

You are turning this into a ridiculous argument over nothing .
No matter what I say , you want to find fault with something and try to make out that i\'m blaming the victims.
Dente...should women not go to college? Should we not trust men ? Ridiculous ! Come on.

My parents told me many times , to stay away from my boyfriend , and that he wasn\'t good for me .I didn\'t listen .
He is no less guilty of what he did to me, but I should have taken that good advice. I wish I had .

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I think rapists have different motivations, I think a lot of date rape is sex driven

What, like a perversion?

Is it a perversion when it's socially acceptable?

It probably qualifies as a perversion when the person it's being done to is distressed by it, and especially so when the victim's distress enhances the perp's pleasure

I think in date rape abduction rape by intoxication the feelings of the victim are wholly irrelevant to the rapists.

Mmm - selective sociopathy. You have something

The whole notion of "nice guys can't be rapists"...

Just like how most clients of prostitutes are "happily married, great father, great grandfather etc.", they can only be that nice because they save their aggression up. On their free day from work they take it out on a young girl her @ss untill she cries and bleeds and begs him to please be less rough insidenof her.*

* True story, their family photo's were awkward to see.

Oh dammit Dente I just read this - it's 90% of the cases I get. I'M SUPPOSED TO BE ON A BREAK!

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if rape is not a sex crime, then what is?

read teh sotry

i did. hence my question. what is, to you, sex crime?

A crime of violence...

In all honesty, rape should absolutely warrant capital punishment. However, with the protection of the police forces these days, I don't believe a woman ever has a reason not to report a rape. The offending man should be immediately tried and if found guilty, executed. Women shouldn't be scared to share their stories, and if the woman truly felt endangered, she can and should seek protection in a number of places.

Police don't always (in fact, rarely) take rape very seriously

That's untrue (I've reported on six rape cases) because of new laws, a police officer is required now to investigate any rape allegations whether or not they have a cause.

Sorry, I meant substantial evidence.

Freudian slip, I think.

In the UK ( a police officer told me this at a Victim Support seminar) that any rape victim coming forward to report a crime against her who appears to be high on recreational drugs will first be arrested and prosecuted before the crime against her is even considered

And that is a very good example to all women .... don't get plastered !

" And that is a very good example to all women .... don't get plastered "


Are you kidding or seriously one of the most disgusting people ever ?

How about this: guys, don't rape!!

"And that is a very good example to all women .... don't get plastered !"

Oh my goodness! How wrong is this? This train of thought is part of the problem.

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usually, its all about power and control, but occasionally it is about sex; i`ve worked with sex offenders and have explored this subject many times. Even when sex is a major factor, the aspect of power and control is still an important element; occasionally, and usually when its rape of an ex partner or someone who has `wronged` the offender, it includes a strong element of hate, and as you say, subjugation and humiliation.

DozerDan/Greenbare, you hate feminists and you do not believe in equality. You have no business posting on this story. You have told the mother of a rape victim that her child was basically ripe for picking. You have insulted me, my children, and countless other people on this site. Your hate towards others will not be tolerated. EP has already kicked your pathetic *** off of here. Yet, you return, with the same boring diatribe. Mr.MRA...my balls are the biggest...why don't you show us what you are really made of??? How about you have a real discussion about men's rights and allow people to participate without blocking and deleting their comments???

yep, i will and have flagged green dozer..... told e/p he is here sewing his same bullcrap under a different name.

men who go after children have no man balls .. they are intimated /scared of real women, that is why they go after helpless children...

yep, green dozer we will let you hang ur self, just like u did before ..................just keep writing,ur theme of convincing people ur love for rape and children is virtuous...NOT!

Flagging, blocking, deleting comments - any attempt to censor - losing your temper, stooping to a level, name-calling etc. isn't doing the cause any good. It isn't the way to win hearts and minds. Integrity, rationale and patience will.

do you know about greenbare dozerDan and his antics? he doesn't deserve any integrity from me or any one !! he is a child lover ( to put it lighty) and will do /say anything to justify his behavior to him self and others .....

e/p asks it members to flag, to help them flag ( weed out) the bad ugly of e/p

last thing i want to do is win some ones heart over to my side who is guilty of saying such things as ..>child was basically ripe for picking. now any one with one ounce of common sense knows what he is saying ........ what he is conveying

he blames women for all the problems of the world

People are entitled to disagree with you. They have a right to be wrong. Knee-jerk reactions, condemning without understanding - it's really not the way to go. Please have some discretion about flagging; it's meant to be a last resort not used as a threat to stifle discussion.

yep i agree ! but with green this is not a knee jerk thing. its been going on for a long time not just weeks but months...

but if u want to see his side, be his guest..... for warning though, he doesnt belive in peein, unless u do it on a park bench.... true fact...

Yes I do know about his antics. But I also see that this is supposed to be a serious discussion about rape - and the man has wound you up and diverted your focus

im replying to ur comments here,its not like i started a new chapter.... or a new story line... im going with the flow of comments.

actually I'm commenting on what u have said ...not green bare,,,

the topic /story was 3 weeks ago. i thought it was dead untill i got a message that you and lilt had posted a comment. like many stories it leads to other exchanges ... we could start a new post if u like....

no no! LOL! Lets not start a 'knock greenbare' post! LMAO

He sings the same ole song. Took 2 seconds to figure out it was him.

How can anyone defend him? Wow!

keep i hear ya

What I'm defending is fair play. Condemning someone without understanding just isn't right. Neither is saying someone's a paedophile when they are not, or trying to stifle freedom of speech, or abusing the flagging and blocking system.

I'm not abusing the flag system... ( if that is what your saying to me ) it clearly says on e/p we as members can help rid of such people as green, who advocates child abuse ..........its against the law what he is portraying........................ saying such things to a mother of a rape victim, that her child was basically ripe for picking..... in my book is lewd and abusive and against the law ....how is flagging him for saying such things, stifling his freedom of speech ? when it clearly is against e/p rules and might as well say against the law....... speaking of blocking. he has blocked every one of us females who are part of the women's movement here on e/p...

you do seem to be on greens side .. under the blanket of "abuse of the flagging system" here on e/p

People like greendan are the reason we need the flagging system. Hate is not allowed. He as well as many others spews hate. I dont have a problem with someone with opposing views. That is not the argument in this case.

I don't take sides. Dozeydin is not a reasonable, rational or articulate person therefore his opinions and views carry scant credibility with anyone. Ignoring him would be the better option because 1) flagging is too much of a loose cannon approach, not always consistently applied or dealt with at the EP end of things and 2) attention seekers really hate being ignored

absofabo i agree .and by the way, i like or plant flowers keep calm logo...

ok i settle my case

Integrity is something you owe to yourself

He won`t, he`s what we in the U.K call an absolute `******`.

The topic is Rape, and if this person is a ********* why are you arguing?

Yes, the topic is rape. Before you jump to conclusions about everyone's distaste for Greenbare/DozerDan, please understand there is some history here. No point in getting into it all, my original comment covers that. I have never personally accused him of being a *********. But the man has said girls as young as 13 are old enough to have sex with. His hate for many members here is inexcusable.

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Fortunately EP has a group for that: <a href="http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Want-To-Be-Raped/359782" target="ep_blank">EP Link</a><br />
<br />
That group has more than 5x as many members who share that desire than this group.

<p>3 people here have blocked me from replying on thier comments <br />
hmmmm...... i know one of them well,<br />
and know why they did..<br />
but the other 2 <br />
i have no idea why</p>

...then quote the comments and add your contribution anyway. I'm sure it will add something positive

@knightreject<br />
<br />
Its illegal to threaten people with legal action in an attempt to intimidate witnesses to a crime.

We know what was here. I know the intended recipient received the message. This is a monument. The offer of help remains.

I don't know about where you live, but intelligence he state of TN it ks perfectly within the law for.a person to use force to protect himself, his family or his possessions from direct danger. This includes the use of firearms. I have said nothing that is against the law. I will defend myself and my family from any person that is a direct threat to the safety and well being of my family. Another words if a person physically attacks or attempts to physically attack me or my family I am well with in my rights to use any force necessary to stop them. This goes for my wife as well. She has the same rights to defend herself as I do.
You attempt to portray me as a blood thirsty lunatic that would go vit and look for people to kill just because i disagree with their ideas will not go unnoticed. Not by EP and not by the law.

You would do best to stop trying to bully me and start posting in legal ways.

I suggest you learn about "fighting words" as they can and have been prosecuted.

EP is investigating you. Do you think the numerous times your comments have been deemed unhelpful that ep wasn't aware?

You can say everything you want but I warned you it is being reported.

Also harassment online is illegal. Might want to check up on that too !

oh ur in tenn lol lol

those comments made by him and mr. greenbeans should have been enough to get them bothe booted off of here. he denies that they were made; he is a liar.

i agree that he's not acting safely or sanely but i wish you much luck in getting him to see that. i don't know that it's possible.

you do a good enough job making yourself look like a nutcase. no assistance from anyone else is required.

but intelligence he state of TN it ks perfectly within the law for.a person to use force to protect himself,............................................................gypsy said..&gt; speak english please

"Another words if a person physically attacks or attempts to physically attack me or my family I am well with in my rights to use any force necessary to stop them". Um, you might want to check with a lawyer about this because its not true in all of the states I know of. "In other words" if someone tries to punch you and you pull out a gun and shoot and kill them, you are likely to go to prison for murder. You are only able to use like force to defend yourself or others, and not "any force necessary to stop them" as you seem to believe.

Good point lady. There are actually very few states where one can use deadly force for anything other than immediate danger of ones own life.

6 More Responses

<p>sex is a tool that is used to rape... <br />
not that all sex is rape...<br />
you can rape a female with a coke bottle for that matter... <br />
<br />
just that sex is one of the tools that is used to rape...</p>

You can rape a man with a coke bottle too. It isn't unheard of. Rape isn't simply a feminist matter or even a female-only matter. But while there are those who insist that the motive is lust or sexual desire, it will never be taken seriously as a crime of assault with long reaching consequences.

yes i agree both genders cab be raped ,, im not disputing that at all...

Damselfly, thank you for this posting. I agree wholeheartedly.

I have never advocated for rape. I have never advocated for murder. You are all insane liers. All of you. If I start having trouble with child services ba<x>sed on your lies I will file law suits. I will find out who all of you really are and drag you into court. You have been warned. Lies of this magnitude and false allegations are what we are fighting against and carry legal consequences. I will take this as far as needed to protect myself and my family. Again you have been warned. <br />
<br />
Now here are a few men and women that agree with me. <br />
<br />
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoiceformen/2012/05/04/sax-pron-and-self-selected-victimhood<br />
<br />
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoiceformen/2011/07/13/the-weaponization-of-sex<br />
<br />
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoiceformen/2011/10/19/rape-hysteria<br />
<br />
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoiceformen/2011/03/16/cry-rape-the-plague-of-false-accusations

Here are statistics I found:<br />
<br />
A false accusation of rape is a false allegation of a forcible sexual assault. As a scientific matter, the frequency of false rape complaints to police or other legal authorities is difficult to determine and the absolute value remains unknown.<br />
<br />
FBI statistics:<br />
<br />
FBI reports consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. The average rate of unfounded reports for Index crimes is 2%. However, "unfounded" is not synonymous with false allegation. Bruce Gross of the Forensic Examiner's says that:<br />
<br />
"This statistic is almost meaningless, as many of the jurisdictions from which the FBI collects data on crime use different definitions of, or criteria for, "unfounded." That is, a report of rape might be classified as unfounded (rather than as forcible rape) if the alleged victim did not try to fight off the suspect, if the alleged perpetrator did not use physical force or a weapon of some sort, if the alleged victim did not sustain any physical injuries, or if the alleged victim and the accused had a prior sexual relationship. Similarly, a report might be deemed unfounded if there is no physical evidence or too many inconsistencies between the accuser's statement and what evidence does exist. As such, although some unfounded cases of rape may be false or fabricated, not all unfounded cases are false.<br />
<br />
British Home Office:<br />
<br />
The largest and most rigorous study was commissioned by the British Home Office and ba<x>sed on 2,643 sexual assault cases (Kelly, Lovett, and Regan, 2005). Of these, 8% were classified by the police department as false reports. Yet the researchers noted that some of these classifications were ba<x>sed simply on the personal judgments of the police investigators and were made in violation of official criteria for establishing a false allegation. Closer analysis of this category applying the Home Office counting rules for establishing a false allegation and excluding cases where the application of the cases where confirmation of the designation was uncertain reduced the percentage of false reports to 3%. The researchers concluded that "one cannot take all police designations at face value" and that "[t]here is an over-estimation of the scale of false allegations by both police officers and prosecutors." Moreover, they added:<br />
<br />
"The interviews with police officers and complainants’ responses show that despite the focus on victim care, a culture of suspicion remains within the police, even amongst some of those who are specialists in rape investigations. There is also a tendency to conflate false allegations with retractions and withdrawals, as if in all such cases no sexual assault occurred. This reproduces an investigative culture in which elements that might permit a designation of a false complaint are emphasised (later sections reveal how this also feeds into withdrawals and designation of ‘insufficient evidence’), at the expense of a careful investigation, in which the evidence collected is evaluated.<br />
<br />
Police in Victoria (Australia):<br />
<br />
Another large-scale study was conducted in Australia, with 850 rapes reported to the Victoria police between 2000 and 2003 (Heenan & Murray, 2006). Using both quantitative and qualitative methods, the researchers examined 812 cases with sufficient information to make an appropriate determination, and found that 2.1% of these were classified by police as false reports. All of these complainants were then charged or threatened with charges for filing a false police report.<br />
<br />
Kanin's report:<br />
<br />
In 1994, Dr. Eugene J. Kanin of Purdue University investigated the incidences of false rape allegations made to the police in one small urban community between 1978 and 1987. He states that unlike those in many larger jurisdictions, this police department had the resources to "seriously record and pursue to closure all rape complaints, regardless of their merits." He further states each investigation "always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects" and "the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false." The number of false rape allegations in the studied period was 45; this was 41% of the 109 total complaints filed in this period. The researchers verified, whenever possible, for all of the complainants who recanted their allegations, that their new account of the events matched the accused's version of events.<br />
<br />
Critics of Dr. Kanin's report include Dr. David Lisak, an associate professor of psychology and director of the Men's Sexual Trauma Research Project at the University of Massachusetts Boston. He states, "Kanin’s 1994 article on false allegations is a provocative opinion piece, but it is not a scientific study of the issue of false reporting of rape. It certainly should never be used to assert a scientific foundation for the frequency of false allegations." According to Lisak, Kanin's study lacked any kind of systematic methodology and did not independently define a false report, instead recording as false any report which the police department classified as false. The department classified reports as false which the complainant later said were false, but Lisak points out that Kanin's study did not scrutinize the police's processes or employ independent checkers to protect results from bias. Kanin, Lisak writes, took his data from a police department whose investigation procedures are condemned by the U.S. Justice Department and the International Association of Chiefs of Police. These procedures include the almost universal threat, in this department, of polygraph testing of complainants, which is viewed as a tactic of intimidation that leads victims to avoid the justice process and which, Lisak says, is "ba<x>sed on the misperception that a significant percentage of sexual assault reports are false."The police department's "biases...were then echoed in Kanin’s unchallenged reporting of their findings."<br />
<br />
Bruce Gross writes in the Forensic Examiner that Kanin's study is an example of the limitations of existing studies on false rape accusations. "Small sample sizes and non-representative samples preclude generalizability." Philip N.S. Rumney questions the reliability of Kanin's study stating that it "must be approached with caution". He argues that the study's most significant problem is Kanin's assumption "that police officers abided by departmental policy in only labeling as false those cases where the complainant admitted to fabrication. He does not consider that actual police practice, as other studies have shown, might have departed from guidelines."<br />
<br />
A selection of findings on the prevalence of false rape allegations. Data from Rumney (2006). <br />
Number False reporting rate (%)<br />
Theilade and Thomsen (1986) 1 out of 56<br />
4 out of 39 1.5% (minimum)<br />
10% (maximum)<br />
New York Rape Squad (1974) n/a 2%<br />
Hursch and Selkin (1974) 10 out of 545 2%<br />
Kelly et al. (2005) 67 out of 2,643 3% ("possible" and "probable" false allegations)<br />
22% (recorded by police as "no-crime")<br />
Geis (1978) n/a 3–31% (estimates given by police surgeons)<br />
Smith (1989) 17 out of 447 3.8%<br />
U.S. Department of Justice (1997) n/a 8%<br />
Clark and Lewis (1977) 12 out of 116 10.3%<br />
Harris and Grace (1999) 53 out of 483<br />
123 out of 483 10.9% ("false/malicious" claims)<br />
25% (recorded by police as "no-crime")<br />
Lea et al. (2003) 42 out of 379 11%<br />
HMCPSI/HMIC (2002) 164 out of 1,379 11.8%<br />
McCahill et al. (1979) 218 out of 1,198 18.2%<br />
Philadelphia police study (1968) 74 out of 370 20%<br />
Chambers and Millar (1983) 44 out of 196 22.4%<br />
Grace et al. (1992) 80 out of 335 24%<br />
Jordan (2004) 68 out of 164<br />
62 out of 164 41% ("false" claims)<br />
38% (viewed by police as "possibly true/possibly false")<br />
Kanin (1994) 45 out of 109 41%<br />
Gregory and Lees (1996) 49 out of 109 45%<br />
Maclean (1979) 16 out of 34 47%<br />
Stewart (1981) 16 out of 18 90%<br />
<br />
A 2006 paper by Philip N.S. Rumney in the Cambridge Law Journal offers a review of studies of false reporting in the USA, New Zealand and the UK. Rumney draws two conclusions from his review of literature. First, the police continue to misapply the "no-crime" or "unfounding" criteria. Studies by Kelly et al. (2005), Lea et al. (2003), HMCPSI/HMIC (2002), Harris and Grace (1999), Smith (1989), and others found that police decisions to no-crime were frequently dubious and ba<x>sed entirely on the officer's personal judgement. Rumney notes that some officers seem to "have fixed views and expectations about how genuine rape victims should react to their victimization." He adds that "qualitative research also suggests that some officers continue to exhibit an unjustified scepticism of rape complainants, while others interpret such things as lack of evidence or complaint withdrawal as 'proof' of a false allegation."<br />
<br />
Rumney's second conclusion is that it is impossible to "discern with any degree of certainty the actual rate of false allegations" due to the fact that many of the studies of false allegations have adopted unreliable or untested research methodologies. He argues, for instance, that in addition to their small sample size the studies by Maclean (1979) and Stewart (1981) used questionable criteria to judge an allegation to be false. MacLean deemed reports "false" if, for instance, the victim did not appear "dishevelled" and Stewart, in one instance, considered a case disproved, stating that "it was totally impossible to have removed her extremely tight undergarments from her extremely large body against her will".<br />
<br />
Dr. David Lisak's study, published in 2010 in Violence Against Women, classified 8 out of the 136 (5.9%) reported rapes at a major northeastern university over a ten year period to be false.<br />
<br />
"Applying IACP guidelines, a case was classified as a false report if there was evidence that a thorough investigation was pursued and that the investigation had yielded evidence that the reported sexual assault had in fact not occurred. A thorough investigation would involve, potentially, multiple interviews of the alleged perpetrator, the victim, and other witnesses, and where applicable, the collection of other forensic evidence (e.g., medical records, security camera records). For example, if key elements of a victim’s account of an assault were internally inconsistent and directly contradicted by multiple witnesses and if the victim then altered those key elements of his or her account, investigators might conclude that the report was false. That conclusion would have been ba<x>sed not on a single interview, or on intuitions about the credibility of the victim, but on a “preponderance” of evidence gathered over the course of a thorough investigation."<br />
<br />
DiCanio (1993) states that while researchers and prosecutors do not agree on the exact percentage of false allegations, they generally agree on a range of 2% to 8%.<br />
<br />
Taylor (1987) wrote that "suspicion and disbelief of women who charge men with rape have for centuries had a stranglehold on [...] laws nominally designed to protect women against rape. As a result, many women did not report or prosecute rapes because the process was so often humiliating."

"The US DOJ has a whole "women" section that is hired specifically for the purpose of twisting all their data and statistics into misandrist promotion of feminist hate." Then I guess knightrejects comment that DOJ statistics support his false rape claims were just more BS from him. The comments you two guys make are just getting more and more irrational and nutty. The lunatic comments you make just support what the rest of us are saying more and more so please keep up the good work which will eventually prove to everyone how wacko you are, and will likely get you kicked off of EP.

I agree with Pennonymous. (which is now almost 30% of the time!!)<br />
<br />
Damselfly, you posted a story that was thoughtful and important to you. That is what really matters. And will matter to someone else. We share experiences here of support. Your story was just that, an open door for someone who might need help. Instead, it became a hostile place, with extreme views. I don't feel good about my part in this. <br />
<br />
Harlequins made the first comment on your story. <br />
She should have had the last comment.

discourse is ok. If we rally around our common distaste for morons, I don't think that's bad. Don't let Greenie and his ilk suck you into the hate. That's what he wants.

Gives us more to report and hastens the end of them too though.

No, I think he's projecting his anger about a lot of social integration issues - and most probably himself. That's usually the case when people keep on not quite getting what's actually being said

Greenbare is an ignorant asshat. Why try to reason with a moron? He is the single least informed and hateful trouble-maker on this site. <br />
<br />
He has blocked me, so, would someone kindly copy and paste this on his whiteboard? He's an asshat and he knows it.

Anyone who blocks another member simply for having an alternative point of view is really a weak hypocrite. An obnoxious way of silencing free speech, and to be condemned as reprehensible. These people are power- crazed enough to eat batteries

Yeah, that is great, Greenbare. Too bad everyone who is raped is not prepared with camera equipment to document the assault.

Lilt, those two are beyond redemption. They try to justify rape!!! I pray neither of them are a father, they can't be.

I am a father and I never justified rape. You are lying.

You never justified rape? You've even denied there are consequences for the victim!

Enjoy choking on your lies knightreject. I want you to stop making up "facts". <br />
<br />
According to United States Department of Justice document CriminalVictimization in the United States, there were overall 191,670 victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005. 1 of 6 U.S. women and 1 of 33 U.S. men have experienced an attempted or completed rape. (according to Colorado Coalition Against Sexual Assault) The U.S. Department of Justice compiles statistics on crime by race, but only between and among people categorized as black or white. The statistics for whites include hispanic and non hispanic whites combined. There were 194,270 white and 17,920 black victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2006. <br />
<br />
However, the report does give a note that for the instances of white-on-black rape the statistic is ba<x>sed on 10 or fewer sample cases. According tothe RAINN about 3.3% of rapes in the US are black-on-white and 3.4% are white-on-black. Some types of rape are excluded from official reports altogether; the FBI's definition for example excludes all rapes except forcible rapes of females, a significant number of rapes go unreported even when they are included as reportable rapes, and a significant number of rapes reported to the police do not advance to prosecution. <br />
<br />
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male. Denov (2004) states that societal responses to the issue of female perpetrators of sexual assault "point to a widespread denial of women as potential sexual aggressors that could work to obscure the true dimensions of the problem." <br />
<br />
From 2000–2005, 59% of rapes were not reported to law enforcement. One factor relating to this is the misconception that most rapes are committed by strangers. In reality, according to the Bureauof Justice Statistics, 38% of victims were raped by a friend or acquaintance, 28% by "an intimate" and 7% by another relative, and 26% were committed by a stranger to the victim. About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim's own home.<br />
<br />
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr. <br />
<br />
Is the FBI NOW a feminist hate group too knightreject?<br />
<br />
FBI reports consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. However, "unfounded" is not synonymous with "false" allegation. The largest study, published in 2005, was ba<x>sed on 2,643 sexual assault cases and found 8% of false reports. A much criticized 1994 study of 109 rape complaints made between 1978 and 1987 found 41% of false allegations. THIS WAS A SINGLE STUDY DONE In 1994 by Dr. Eugene J. Kanin. It was later disproved as it counted all rape cases not persecuted, not actual false claims.<br />
<br />
" In 1994, Dr. Eugene J. Kanin of Purdue University investigated the incidences of false rape allegations made to the police in one small urban community between 1978 and 1987. He states that unlike those in many larger jurisdictions,thispolice department had the resources to "seriously record and pursue to closure all rape complaints, regardless of their merits." He further states each investigation "always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects" and "the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred.She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false." The number of false rape allegations in the studied period was 45; this was 41% of the 109 total complaints filed in this period" <br />
<br />
A 2006 review of studies of false reporting in the United States, New Zealand and the United Kingdom concluded:<br />
<br />
"Two conclusions can be drawn from this review of literature on the prevalence of false rape allegations. First, many of the studies of false allegations have adopted unreliable or untested research methodologies and, so we cannot discern with any degree of certainty the actual rate of false allegations. A key component in judging the reliability of research in this area relates to the criteria used to judge an allegation to be false. Some studies use entirely unreliable criteria, while others provide only limited information on how rates are measured. The second conclusion that can be drawn from the research is that the police continue to misapply the no- crime or unfounding criteria and in so doing it would appear that some officers have fixed views and expectations about how genuine rape victims should react to their victimisation. The qualitative research also suggests that some officers continue to exhibit an unjustified scepticism of rape complainants, while others,interpret such things as lack of evidence or complaint withdrawal as ‘‘proof’’ of a false allegation. Such findings suggest that there are inadequacies in police awareness of the dynamics and impact of sexual victimisation and this further reinforces the importance of training and education.However, the exact extent to which police officers incorrectly label allegations as false is difficult to discern."<br />
<br />
Critics of Dr. Kanin's report include Dr. David Lisak, an associate professor of psychology and director of the Men's Sexual Trauma Research Project at the University of Massachusetts Boston. He states, "Kanin’s 1994 article on false allegations is a provocative opinion piece, but it is not a scientific study of the issue of false reporting of rape. It certainly should never be used to assert a scientific foundation for the frequency of false allegations." According toLisak, Kanin's study lacked any kind of systematic methodology and did not independently define a false report, instead recording as false any report which the police department classified as false. The department classified reports as false which the complainant later said were false, but Lisak points out that Kanin's study did not scrutinize the police's processes or employ independent checkers to protect results from bias. <br />
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Kanin, Lisak writes, took his data from a police department whose investigation procedures are condemned by the U.S. Justice Department and the International Association of Chiefs of Police. These procedures include the almost universal threat, in this department, of polygraph testing of complainants, which is viewed as a tactic of intimidation that leads victims to avoid the justice process and which, Lisak says, is "ba<x>sed on the misperception that a significant percentage of sexual assault reports are false." The police department's "biases...were then echoed in Kanin’s unchallenged reporting of their findings." <br />
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Bruce Gross writes in the Forensic Examiner that Kanin's study is an example of the limitations of existing studies on false rape accusations. "Small sample sizes and non-representative samples preclude generalizability." Philip N.S. Rumney questions the reliability of Kanin's study stating that it "must be approached with caution". He argues that the study's most significant problem is Kanin's assumption "that police officers abided by departmental policy in only labeling as false those cases where the complainant admitted to fabrication. He does not consider that actual police practice, as other studies have shown, might have departed from guidelines." <br />
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More to choke on for greenbean and knightreject<br />
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FBI reports consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. The average rate of unfounded reports for Index crimes is 2%. However, "unfounded" is not synonymous with false allegation. Bruce Gross of the Forensic Examiner's says that:<br />
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This statistic is almost meaningless, as many of the jurisdictions from which the FBI collects data on crime use different definitions of, or criteria for, "unfounded." That is, a report of rape might be classified as unfounded (rather than as forcible rape) if the alleged victim did not try to fight off the suspect, if the alleged perpetrator did not use physical force or a weapon of some sort, if the alleged victimdid not sustain any physical injuries, or if the alleged victim and the accused had a prior sexual relationship. Similarly, a report might be deemed unfounded if there is no physical evidence ortoo many inconsistencies between the accuser's statement and what evidence does exist. As such, although some unfoundedcases ofrape maybe false or fabricated, not all unfounded cases are false.<br />
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A 2006 paper by Philip N.S. Rumney in the CambridgeLaw Journal offers a review of studies of false reporting in the USA, New Zealand and the UK. [12] Rumney draws two conclusions from his review of literature.First, the police continue to misapply the "no-crime" or "unfounding" criteria. Studies by Kelly et al. (2005), Lea et al. (2003), HMCPSI/HMIC (2002), Harris and Grace (1999), Smith (1989), and others found that police decisions to no-crime were frequently dubious and ba<x>sed entirely on the officer's personal judgement. Rumney notes that some officers seem to "have fixed views and expectations about how genuine rape victims should react to their victimization." He adds that "qualitative research also suggests that some officers continue to exhibit an unjustified scepticism of rape complainants, while others interpret such things as lack of evidence or complaint withdrawal as 'proof' of a false allegation."<br />
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Rumney's second conclusion is that it is impossible to "discern with any degree of certainty the actual rate of false allegations"due to the fact that many of the studies of false allegations have adopted unreliable or untested research methodologies. He argues, for instance, that in addition to their small sample size the studies by Maclean (1979) and Stewart (1981) used questionable criteria to judge an allegation to be false. MacLean deemed reports "false" if, for instance, the victim did not appear "dishevelled" and Stewart, in one instance, considered a case disproved, stating that "it was totally impossible to have removed her extremely tight undergarments from her extremely large body against her will".<br />
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DiCanio (1993) states that while researchers and prosecutors do not agree on the exact percentage of false allegations, they generally agree on a range of 2% to 8%. <br />
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Taylor (1987) wrote that "suspicion and disbelief of women who charge men with rape have for centuries had a stranglehold on [...] laws nominally designed to protect women against rape. As a result, many women did not report or prosecute rapes because the process was so often humiliating."

WE ALL KNOW WHAT WAS HERE. The suggestion for help remains. The rest has been said and heard, its job is done.

Im not breaking the law. I never have. I do NOT advocate for rape. Never have.

At not time have advocated for rape. Prove that I did you can't. DO NOT THREATEN MY CHILD.

A woman bravely tells of being a victim of a crime and you call her psychotic, laugh at her, and spew your hate. Knightrunner, no one is interested in your story. You have been reported...again.

and yet ep lets them go on and on, spewing their hate on this site. maybe these two are actually members of ep admin or screwing admin to be able to remian here. there's got to be some explaination for why they are allowed to do what they do.

I never advocated for that and you know. Stop lying. I said that the end scenario of our current path is violence and that the mrm is trying to this before it gets to that point. You know this. I explained it to you many times. Your a lier.

I didn't laugh at her. Laugh@ fly. Can't you read.

This has given me an idea for a story that I may rewrite in the future. Look for it.

Lmao@ the fly.<br />
Thanks for the compliment Harley. To you Im not a real man. Meaning I won't put up with your bullshit. Thank you.

knightrunner I'm appalled at you. Greenbare I expect this sort of over-emotional I-hate-all- women from, but you - well yes I did think you were a real man until a few minutes ago

Yes green our of the corner stones of the mrm is that men get to desire what a real man is and is not. Women have no say so in the matter.

I've seen and heard of the fall out about false accusations. I will tell any victim of rape that I feel bad about what happened to them. But I will not back down on my position. I don't care who Im talking to. <br />
I call bullshit on the idea that I should keep quite about a epidemic of false allegations just because I might hurt someone's feelings. To anyone that that thinks i should can f off and die.

Rape is a violent crime, Greenbare. Not a feminist agenda.<br />
Your ignorance has no boundaries.

Ernie, I know there is no making sense to someone so delusional and ill. But I refuse to ignore the hate he spews.

well you should

It would be surprising if even 8% of "rape" accusations have any factual basis at all. Most of the time she is bragging about the value of her stinking crotch, needs an excuse to be late for dinner, or wants to justify an abortion. (Roe v. Wade)"~~~that is Greenbare's opinion of rape. You tell me to ignore that, Damselfly? You write an important post about a horrible crime, and he comes along and basically says rape does not exist. Go ahead and ignore those comments, it's your story.

Noway damsel, have we learned nothing from our past? Ignore this? You're kidding me! Keeping quiet has led to so much destruction its not even funny.
For a brief example:
Nazis
Rwanada
Darfur
South Africa
GITMO

When good people remain silent evil prevails.

Because they came here to be bullies and they do it everyday, they seek out victims to injure and I can't stand it.
Its one thing when they do it in the groups which allow them but its quite another to seek out people to torment.

And unfortunately they do have influence because this behavior is exactly what victims fear, that they won't be believed, that they will be blamed and like I said earlier often times they don't report because of this.

amen, lilt!

amen lilt and dente!

they are attention-seeking trolls. Ignore them and they will have nothing to argue with. Their nonsense has little influence on anyone of sense

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20% of accusers admit that they lied. Another 20% are proven to be false allegations. Its estimated that 10% of men convicted of rape are innocent. That's 50%. No women don't lie about rape. Of course not.

These facts are everywhere. Department of justice. Saveservices.org
False rape society
Etc etc etc.

I don't suppose you lie about stats either. But I've worked with victims of rape and I tell you, you really wouldn't be cavalier about it if you'd seen the fallout I've seen. That includes death

No they aren't. Women very rarely lie about rape. They rarely stab themselves in the back or beat themselves up and give themselves a black eye. Some do, but it's exceptional. You won't find any verifiable facts to back up these stats because they simply do not exist anywhere. Probably not even in your own head, if you are honest

I'm going to defend my friend, I do know that some men accused of rape were totally innocent of it, but not all women who have said rape were indeed lying. I know knightrunner didn't say all women lied but I don't think they all were telling the truth. Knightrunner I know what you're saying.

I've seen the facts and the stats. They fact that you won't go and look them up for yourself via the sites I listed shows that you know that Im correct. Rape isn't a feminist conspiracy. The rape industry is. And yes it is a industry.

Wake.you are exactly right. Not all women lie about rape. When one women does about rape that hurts all the women that are truly are rape victims. Notice how our opponents won't acknowledge that false rape accusations exist. Which means that they aren't worried about the fact that these false rape accusations hurt real rape victims. They seem to be only worried about hiding the truth at all cost. More worried about portraying men as evil. Men are always the perpetrator.

I don't think I would go that far green.

You can't possibly know that some men accused of rape were totally innocent of it. What you mean is that you prefer to take their word for it

67% of all people have experienced some sort of sexual abuse. 33% of all soldiers experience sexual abuse while in the service. 100% of what I just said were numbers formed in my head, but nearly 75% of you were willing to believe it because 150% of the time you believe what you read on the internet and 4 9% of you are brainwashed.
Sorry, just get annoyed when people spew numbers about topics they have no real knowledge on.

false accusations of criminal behaviour is a completely different crime - slander. We aren't talking about slander - this topic is rape

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