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Feminism Never Looked So Good

Vivagalore Vivagalore 31-35, F 17 Responses Nov 9, 2012

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My grandmother placed me in them when I was around eight or nine yrs. old. Too much pressure for a kid. I wanted to go to sports or computer camp. All those events do is objectify people. Even if I won "best facial bueaty" it wasn't good enough for grandma because it wasn't the ultimate crown. PEACE.

?wut?

I HEARD YOU 7!!!!
Controversial... Controversial...

NO ONE ACTUALLY LANDED ON THE MOON!!!

9-11 WAS A HOAX!!!

HILTER ISN'T DEAAAD!!!

IT WAS THE JEEEEWWWWSSS FAULT!!!

(There, I hope that's enough coals.)

. LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO

.omg we're all going to hell..............my Catholic nana will be so upset. Not really. She totally called it but, still....

*Crying* with both laughter and shear gratitude! I thank you!

lolly lol.

. btw, hitler is dead (finally) and 9-11 was a semi inside job. Just sayin!

^^Word

^^^^ FACTS

Yes but have we adequately proved these facts? Where is our evidence? Hmmm? RAOTFL!

Are you saying the Jews were killed by coals???? Provide links.

Hitler wasn't a feminist

Actually I don't think we know the truth about 9-11 but, it wouldn't say its a hoax because it did happen

Dente you s0d I nearly wet myself!

The moon landing was sexist. The Challenger was blown up because of the MRAnti's

The Bush gov't did it so that there was reason to move over seas.

The whole point of 9-11 and the wars and stuff that are going on right now is because the US wants ALL OF THE OIL!!!! The ones who control the oil have the power.

"Hitler wasn't a feminist"

LINKS OR IT DIDN'T HAAAAPPPEEEENN!!!! Baaahahah!!!

I agree with us not knowing about the truth about 9-11, my wetting my self referred to dentes previous comment!

It's only my opinion, but I think that countries do a sort of... Book burning so to say... On their own country's histories. Because those in power control the books.

I'm from Canada... Our books are written by the Chinese... Just saying...

No I think the pentagon was blown up because it is in the shape of a vajajazzler

However, since it was in the shape of a vajazzy it didn't blow up... see birth videos for proof

RAOFL!

I think it's horribly, horribly wrong of them to do so, but it's also reaaaally funny if you think about it.

I remember from my history class, there was a section in it, like a page long article about this protest that they were having somewhere in China.. Somehow it managed to twist it so that it was the people protesting who were in the wrong.

It was all you would hear my peers talking about in the hallways for a couple of days, it was quite funny.

VAGINA POWA!!!

In the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) programme of 25 points published in 1920 stated that it disapproved of women working. Adolf Hitler claimed that the emancipation of women was a slogan invented by Jewish intellectuals. He argued that for the German woman her "world is her husband, her family, her children, and her home."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERwomen.htm

During the election campaign in 1932, Adolf Hitler promised that if he gained power he would take 800,000 women out of employment within four years. In August 1933 a law was passed that enabled married couple to obtain loans to set up homes and start families. To pay for this single men and childless couples were taxed more heavily.

When Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933 he appointed Gertrud Scholtz-Klink as Reich Women's Leader and head of the Nazi Women's League. A good orator, Scholtz-Klink's main task was to promote male superiority and the importance of child-bearing. In one speech she pointed out that "the mission of woman is to minister in the home and in her profession to the needs of life from the first to last moment of man's existence."

Plus feminists wear different moustaches.

Well... That "is" war for you... "MAKE BABIES SO WE CAN SEND THEM TO WAAARRR!"

I like how you found articles though :)

You can read Chinese?

remember the guy who got run over in Tiananmen Square? He was fighting for women's rights and look what they did to him.

I can't read Chinese, but that's where they are edited and printed.

thank goodness Chinese people can't read Canadian

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

I know eh, Canadians and their damned beavers and beer!!!
That's probably why they get Chinese to edit their social studies text books, we're too drunk to do it ourselves! Bahaha!

Dente,
I am sure one of those anti feminists will claim that Hitler was in fact a feminist, after all all of us feminists are just as bad as the nazi's according to their ( anti feminist) logic. LOL

Just read the part where you wrote that feminists wore a different kind of moustachio. lol!

See 7 I'm twice as funny as you first thought ... And likely half as aggressive :-D

I thought you were pretty funny for awhile, kind of aggressive, but funny non the less :)

@gumshoe... did you see when Jani compared feminists to Nazis...and then condemned ALL GERMANS for Nazism... it was as enlightened as Knightruiner...and as intellegent. Funniest part Concept had to stick up for her

AWH 7 i thought you were funny too

HA! I'm afraid poor cc has his work cut out for him with many in that group.

People always make Hitler out to be such a bad guy, he was just trying to protect us from the plague of human looking rats that were taking over. Haven't you seen the hard hitting Goebbels documentary on the subject? The moon landing was not faked, it is just the moon is not away as people think and can be reached with a ladder from mount Everest. As for 9-11 we have all seen those tricks where magicians make buildings and bridges disappear, well they made it disappear but forgot how to bring it back so had to make up the whole terrorist thing to justify it. You guys and your crazy theories.

Oh noes... no more coppy jew theories...

Stop blaming them for your circumcision ... lets work on getting you funding for your research on "forethoughts on foreskin re-growth forever" project

How did you know I was circumcised? Who told you? Ediez is the only person I ever sent **** pics to! The thing is if the grow it on the back of a mouse I couldn't kill the mouse so he would have to live attached to my ****. This could lead to issues when trying to entice a girl to get close to it. Not tgat I have ever been successful in the past, but if anything, I am a man with high hopes.

imagine stretching whats less...not foreskining a mouse ( The mouse with the ear reference is very impressive though)

less, works but, i meant left

http://www.circumstitions.com/Restore.html
Apparently you just keep pulling on it...
Jokes aside though, I don't think we ought to be mutilating the little boys of our little boys.
Male circumcision ought to be an informed choice made by a consenting adult.

Dente "However, since it was in the shape of a vajazzy it didn't blow up... see birth videos for proof"...

*snorting milk and cookies from sensitive nostrils*

Dente.. don't make me stretch my skin out before it is time. When I get older I'll have extra skin for days, can't I just pretend then?

True...
My dirty old man friend says his nuts fall in the toilet when he goes to take a poo.
Thinking he needs a nut-bra.

Do they make nut bras?

omg, did this just become an adult circumcision discussion?? Don't y'all know? It happens! I can witness, it's not a viable option!!

Everything eventually dissolves into some sort of penis conspiracy theory on EP...

and now I am aware not only of the need for nut bras but the existence of nut bras on amazon ...

Might need me one of these. My balls have had the run of my pants for far too long. Time to crack down on these crazy nuts.

Do they have "nut tucks"? For the vain men who want to go "balls out" well into their 80's?

And nut bras?? I will be washing my brain out with soap, eternally.

http://www.wpurology.com/Services/Signature-Services/Adult-Circumcision/default.aspx
It happens, and it takes longer to heal...
But the fact that it hurts like crap is still not justification to whack on the tallywhackers of babies who can't give consent...it'd be like taking off my cl!t hood as a baby.
I'd feel pretty annoyed someone cut on my happy parts without asking me when I got old enough to think about it.
Mind you, I have to ...um...tuck things down there in when I go bicycling, if I leave them hanging they get pinched.

We should put this on the Anti-feminist agenda.... blame feminism for bike seats, pinching nuts = misandry!!

@ hylierandom...please do allow a different perspective. I was with the same man who had to, for medical reasons, have an adult circumcision. Pain? You have no idea. After a couple of good years, sex was never again tolerable. He wished, more than anything ever, that he had been trimmed as a baby. The ruins of his sex-life was the destruction of his marriage, self-esteem, happiness. Nope, I have to say, your understanding is limited.

Maybe feminists run around taking off foreskins...
If you collected foreskins, could you sew them into coinpurses...that turn into suitcases if you rub them the right way?
Just askin'

How common are medical foreskin problems? I mean, I really, really feel for your guy, but I still am inclined to think that there's not enough justification for the wholesale removal of foreskins at birth, the way we do.

Oh no Simply thats heartbreaking. There are many perspectives. I actually recently read the APA findings for 2012 (update from the 1999 findings) ... many perspectives ...

I have known of only one man who had adult circumcision (elective) and he was happy with the result.

I did know of a man who lost sexual function of his penis as complication of diabetes and it destroyed him and his first marriage. He later learned that sex didn't have to revolve around a erect penis and is happy and remarried. It was a long and difficult journey for him.

<---- doesn't collect foreskin but, I actually have been accused of that by a very special member of the MrAnti's

I can't comment on the commonality. I can, though, speak as one person that has been deeply affected. My one single voice, crying, is pertinent to the convo.

My own honest opinion is that unneeded surgical procedures ought not to be done on the genitalia of children...I think it's unethical.
I think it's a milder version of female genital mutilation; also what's done to intersex babies...
...The parents choose what genitalia the baby gets to keep in most cases...and when the child grows up, it is often found that the wrong sex was picked.

Did your husband get any counseling?

Husbands tried counseling, did not want to continue. I left him, eventually. A decade later.

What happened to you was a tragedy, I agree. But how common is that tragedy?
...It also sounds like he had a VERY suboptimal adult circumcision result.
...If less than 1% of adult males with foreskins need to have them removed for medical reasons, and only a small number of those have problems that last more than a month... Then would that justify surgical alteration of the genitalia of millions of infants to prevent?
Rare bad things happen.
Another rare bad thing that happens is the accidental removal of all or part of the infant penis during a circumcision operation.

It took a few failed attempts of counseling of my previously mentioned friend before he, as he put it 'was able to realize the situation wasn't changing, so his feelings about it had to' (paraphrasing)

I am sure it is in some ways different. Especially pain related. However, commonality in some ways.

I am sorry to hear that things never improved. A decade isn't a minute... sounds like heartache.

Hylie the issue with intersexed children did you ever see the documentary about the twins....?

This is the funniest and most surreal convo I've read this week. I love my circle.

Again, I will not, cannot comment on commonality or pervasiveness of sub-optimal results of this stuff. I can say that I am utterly affected. And what are the odds of having such a completely random conversation, in such a tiny circumference, where one person pops up and says, "bejeesus, cutting at birth may have saved my marriage??"

Simply I hope you aren't feeling picked on... or dismissed.
I don't negate your view nor how affected you are. I can only imagine (even then I doubt what I imagine is close to the real thing)! It took/takes a ship load of courage and fortitude to deal with that at all, let alone 10+ years and then to be forced to let go.

Fox your circle loves you too!

jeebus....*checks coffee* Nope...no whiskey......*goes to get some*

while your up put your nut-bra on!

Not at all, Dente! I only offer a perspective to add to your discussion. None of this is about me.

Simply.. sorry for the real life problem. Though I must counter you argument as I know someone who had a botched circumcision as a baby and grew up having severe problems with sex, as to have it hurt! So the moral of this story is man or baby man things can go wrong in this very sensitive area and **** up lives.

*popcorn*

Probably kinda offtopic in this crazy discussion, but I have slept with 3 circumcised men in my life and ALL 3 were rubbish in bed. So... I tend to prefer my men intact.

Breaks my heart kid. I am cut. I guess this is it for us.

@Copper, not sure how you read my argument...I don't advocate circumcision for anyone - in fact 10 out of 10 infants interviewed are strictly opposed. But I stick to my experience that it's not so great for adults either and HE wished he had not been left intact. I didn't care either way, before the surgery.

" in fact 10 out of 10 infants interviewed are strictly opposed" <--- YEAH but babies cry about everything !

And babies are dreadfully out of shape ... Look at them that fat and all they do is lay around !!!

*notes fox likes peenees in turtlenecks *

"The whole point of 9-11 and the wars and stuff that are going on right now is because the US wants ALL OF THE OIL!!!! The ones who control the oil have the power."

What did 9-11 have to do with oil? Osama bin Laden was the one who brought about 9-11, and he didn't have any control over oil or oil fields. He was a fugitive who lived in caves in the mountains of Afghanistan. This is the problem ignorant people have always had. They linked Osama bin Laden and 9-11 with Saddam Hussein and Iraq when the two had no connection.

Osama was protesting feminism. And clearly he had a small penis !

Plus he listens to Creed !

@ Simply...it is a dreadful thing to have happened you you and your ex...
@ Dente...I read the book "As nature made him," which details David Reimer's story...which, of course, all started when a doctor accidentally cauterized the boy's penis instead of removing the foreskin...An "as nature made him" is a read I highly recommend; it is why I am opposed to infantile alteration of intersex children.
(...Maybe Bin Laden had a bad circumcision...)

Bin laden was a burned CIA operative. his real name is Henry Jacobs, but had surgery to make him look the part. He was double crossed by the obahma administration when he wanted to be on obamas second term cabinet. He had to be taken out before the truth was told. He actually thought the assault choppers were there to transfer him back to the States. Suprise! They were not and he got shot in the eye. He was not cirumcised. Where do you nut jobs get your info from anyway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khitan_%28circumcision%29
Most Muslim boys are circumcised, even though it's not in the Koran.

So speaking of rubbish in bed, my yorkie thought it would be fun to get into the trash and enjoy the spoils of his raid on my bed!!! Also he resents being "fixed".

You know I love the way this random silliness has switched back and forth between some serious topics that arose from it! This has yet again been a laugh a pleasure and education all rolled into one! Thanks guys!

"Bin laden was a burned CIA operative. his real name is Henry Jacobs, but had surgery to make him look the part. He was double crossed by the obahma administration when he wanted to be on obamas second term cabinet. He had to be taken out before the truth was told. He actually thought the assault choppers were there to transfer him back to the States. Suprise! They were not and he got shot in the eye. He was not cirumcised."
HAhahahahaha!!!! Are you kidding? THINK for a minute instead of just believing crap from people you never question. Why on earth would a CIA operative have surgery to look like bin Laden and do the things he did, and then think there would be any chance he would be made part of the Obama cabinet, particularly if he looked like bin Laden, and did the things he did? Are you kidding?
"Where do you nut jobs get your info from anyway?"
Ditto. Stop believing such ridiculous bullshit and try using your brain.

...That whoosh you felt was Coppy's strange sense of humor going over your head...:p
...Though Bin Laden most assuredly did get money and training form the CIA when he was a "freedom fighter" against the Soviets, so it wasn't all BS.

...From...not form...

Hylie got my back.. *fist bump*

./<---- loves coppys sense of humor

"...That whoosh you felt was Coppy's strange sense of humor going over your head...:p"

Oh damn, that was my total mistake. If I would have realized it was Coppy I would have known it was his sense of humor and would not have written what I did. For some reason I thought it was the silly slave girl whose comment we are all responding to here. Maybe because their avis are the same color. Could also be because I was tired.

Sorry coppy.

:D coppy happy and demands a dance party :D

Are we going to address the fact that enough people have had such ridiculous ideas that we can't detect a satirical poe on EP anymore ?

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This guy dosent have the balls to be a woman! Wait, that doesnt sound right...I'm not much of a feminist, but I'm a feminist supporter. Of course I'm not much of an athlete, but I'm an athletic supporter!
Okay, enough with the jokes, I truly am a feminist. my mom brought me up to respect all people, especially women. She was way ahead of her time. I'm glad that Obama got elected. he may have a chance to appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices, and if Romney had been elected it would have been a setback for all women in the United States, and of course, the USA is soo "Da Balls"(there I go again) that I'm sure it would have been a setback for women everywhere - lol!

Your mom seems like my kinda Lady....she has a pair of brass ovaries !

She was school nurse from 1958 to 1974. She was trying to set up sex and drug education classes at the high school. She held a number of open meetings but after a which they were always interrupted by the local John Birchers. "I was at a sex ed class in such and such town and I saw kinder-gardeners fondling plaster molds of genitalia!". She got so fed up with not making any progress that she gave the school superintendent an ultimatum - "Either we get sex and drug ed classes started or I'll quit" and she did. She was a wonderful , caring Mom who brought me and big sis up right and always gave us unconditional love. When the war in Vietnam was raging and I dropped out of college in 1971 and lost my student deferment, she offer to give me all her money if I wanted to go to Canada...

Did you enjoy Canada ?

^^Lovin KB and his momma!!!!!!!

I didnt go. I lucked out of the draft. My draft number was something like 81, but I dropped out of school in October and Umass didnt report it to the draft noard. I couldnt supply student deferrment papers the following Autumn and on December 1st, I became 0ne-A which menat that I would be drafted. At the end of December I was told that I would be drafted during the 1st three months of 1972. Congress stopped the draft until April and I didnt have to go! The war was raging at that time, so I probably would have split! When I dropped out I hitchhiked through Canada and the US, ending up in San Francisco., Canada wasnt a lot of fun back then in 1971. The French and English speaking Canadians were at each others throats. Politicians were being murdered and kidnapped. My friend and i were stuck hitchhiking outside of Montreal at the entrance to the Trans-Canadian Highway for a day and a half. A young woman told us that we werent getting rides because we had long hair and knapsacks and a lot of people probably thought that we were secessionists carrying explosives. We had to get short rides across the Highway stopping at their equivalent of Howard Johnson,s Restaurants (I forget the name) and go inside to ask people for rides. It took us a while and some crazy rides, but we eventually crossed into the US over Lake Huron into the city of Port Huron, Michigan. A few hours after we got out, Montreal went under marshal law. I have visited Quebec, Montreal and Torono as a tourist

Thank you so much Edie, She was a wonderful, loving Mom. She once told me that even if I murdered someone, she would hide me from the law. Unfortunately, she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease in the mid 70s (I'm sure she had it since 1966 when she noticed memory loss and went for testing but the results were negative) When my dad died in January 1981, I moved her into our house and my whole family helped take care of her, but I was the main caregiver. She went downhill quickly and soon had to be kept in the house, posyed into bed at night, she wore adult diapers and soon I had to feed her and shower her. Very difficult. At the end of 1986 we could no longer care for her because of physical health issues. I had to place her into a nursing home and she died there in 1994, not knowing who I was and I hope not knowing who she was.
I never ever cried at a funeral until I found myself sobbing at my Mom's. I was shocked, but I realized that I wasnt crying for her, she was out of pain and in a better place(any place was better), I was crying for my loss! her birthday was July 4, and for the next 4 years I got terrible upset on that day. I chose to remember her as the beautiful(and she was - inside and out) Mother of my youth. I still start crying when I think of those days(like now) but it's good for me to remember...Thanks for the memories, Edie :)

. oh sweety =( she sounds like a wonderful lady *hugs*

even when we intellectually understand that the dead are better off and that we mourn for our loss ...it still feckin hurts just as much.

(((( hugs for kb))))

I took care of my tat and tatta when they needed me. It was no joke...I didn't have to deal with alzheimers only sun downers and brain surgery ... And it was crazy!

It is sad when we become our parents or grandparents parents. The only thing that might be sadder is when a child dies before her/his time and leaves grieving parents. Life can really be a *****! We must be able to accept god's will and move forward. Unless we do accept, it is impossible for us to do so. Do you remember the Terry Schiavo case here in the States a number of years ago?

I do remember the terry case...have you seen the movie the butterfly and the diving bell or read the book of the same name... Amazing really

No, I'll have to check it out...Thanks!

you have to read the book and watch the movie, they aren't the same ...they are like complimentary more than the same.

@ KB ((((HUGS))))
@ Dente...yeah, even when you know it means they aren't in pain anymore...it hurts like hell.

((HUGS)) hylierandom, nice to meet you!

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:D! GOOD ONE :)

I fully support Dente and Ediez on being feminist.And they do NOT hate men.

...... <3

I'm willing to bet they aren't Jewish and they don'e hate chopped liver either. Oh the curse of needing reading glasses I can't tell whether I typed liver or lover

tee hee hee

I was being deliberately gruesome there

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You have to admit though... he's rather pretty.

.indeed

For a girl.

:D

^^Hater

I am a slave because not everyone is made equally.

re-word or delete this post

.wtf?

Judging by this persons other groups they are into slave/master fetish play, which is a bit out of place for this post.

.that's why i was confused.....

Every one is made equal in America, at least. The problem is that life isn't fair.

equality of opportunity, not of outcome is why I am a feminist.

However, I believe all people are 'made' equal but, are not treated as such, not even in America.

I agree with that dente. If only it were a perfect world.

Lol, actually, I mixed up the group title for the name of the post. I left it anyways to stir a pot.

And for the record, it's not a fetish, or in play.
I am human property, buyable and tradeable... Kind of like what African people used to be. :)

No you aren't, BabySlave7. Hate to be a spoilsport but African slaves had no choice whatever in who they were sold to or what use they were put to; their lives were criminally oppressed and it was not their sexual fantasy.

Babyslave, consensual slavery - if you will - is nothing like what African slaves endured. Nothing. I understand what you are trying to communicate, but one is nothing like the other and I imagine many African Americans would find this offensive.

You people are so touchy. It is consensual, but I still don't have a choice in what I have to do. I created a simile with African slaves in the way that I do not have a choice, of course I made the choice to not have a choice.

Better simile - it's closer to Greek or Roman slavery. It's not sexual. It's "You need to do this because I said so, because it's what needs to be done." Which happens to be pretty much the same as the African people, apart from how they became slaves... Which is not the point, slavery is slavery.

Either way, the point I was making is that people are not born equal, as your government would have you believe.

Equal opportunity SHOULD exist, I definitely agree with you people there, men should be able to get financial aid from their wives after a divorce, I feel bad for many of them, women eat them alive.

. <----is not touchy

Lol, the others who were seemingly getting offended were :)

... *touch* baha!!!

Rather than touchy, let's go with realistic and considerate in regards to historical wrongs ;-)

. i have a feeling Baby has no clue what she's in for. No good will come from this

This has nothing to do with history, I am being as realistic and considerate in my comparison as possible.

It is your unwillingness to accept my truth that creates your offended demeanor.

Not touchy just being real...the truth is that every time you CHOOSE TO OBEY...because you are not a true slave, you choose to be there, choose to stay and can leave at any time.
You also must be confused because actual slavery had nothing to do with "doing what was best for the slaves" if you knew what real slavery was you'd know it was about keeping livestock working not doing what was best... And if you are in a situation where your chosen master takes into account what is best for you and you agree with him and stay with him and chose to do what he commands then you are not a 'true' slave.

@Edie... yeah... I'm thinkin' this aint' gonna turn out well....sigh.

Baby.... perhaps quit while you are ahead. I'm a sub and I'm guaranteeing you that consensual slavery is nothing like the plight of African American slaves. If you think your lifestyle choice is "realistic and comparable" to African slaves you need to go back to school. And I don't say that unkindly.

.lmfao

I know what "true slavery is," it just so happens that my Master is a very kind and caring person who doesn't treat His humans like livestock, He states very clearly to me regularly that people are not animals and should be treated like people. That does not make me less of a slave.

Also, contrary to what you may believe, I cannot leave of my own accord.

And contrary to another believe you have: African slaves, and Greek slaves, and Roman slaves did CHOOSE TO OBEY. They didn't have to obey their masters, they could have gotten beaten or killed instead, a crappy choice, but they still had a choice.

Just because I am given a good life as a slave, doesn't mean I'm not a slave at all. It means I found the right circumstances, and am a naturally submissive person.

Therefore, I am not made the same as each other individual, nor are they made the same as each other. Thus proving further that people are not equal.

I could go as far to say that people should not be treated equally either. They should be treated WELL, but not equal.

"Your truth"... You are just full of your truth aren't you? Funny thing about truth it is usually devoid of **** ...yet you and your truth contain nothing but **** ... I guess you know as much about truth as you do about slavery .

Are you trying to tell me you are not free to leave your master ?

Oh for God's sake. You can leave when you want. Tell yourself otherwise but unless you are in an emotionally damaging relationship with a psychopath, you can walk at any time. I get it.... you do what he says; he's your Sir. (I'm a sub, remember?)

"And contrary to another believe you have: African slaves, and Greek slaves, and Roman slaves did CHOOSE TO OBEY. They didn't have to obey their masters, they could have gotten beaten or killed instead"

This is not your situation. If it is, you are in an emotionally damaging relationship with a psychopath (see above). Otherwise.....I'd really just stop...

Are you telling me that you made no choice in becoming a slave?

That your master kidnapped you and now holds you against your will and that the penalty for leaving or disobeying your master is death and or severe permanent disfigurment ?

I definitely know what I'm in for.

DenteAvvelenato, you just said my truth is devoid of **** (apart from slight logical errors which I have corrected), something cannot be devoid of something and full of it at the same time, that is a logical fallacy...

RedRubies - you are a sub, and probably only play your 'scenes' and what not. Although I'm all for you being submissive and being openly honest about what you are, you have never taken a glimpse at my life. Also, I'm not a quitter :)

I am a slave Dente, follow through with whatever threats you have. Your ignorance cannot change the truth.
This is why it's so hard for gay people to get married. People get upset and offended about the fine details, they don't look at the big picture.

I made the comment "I am a slave because not everyone is made equally." as an example of why feminism will never work.

Me thinks Baby is an attention ***** that is posting only to get others riled up, so that she can get the attention she desires.

No baby what I said was that TRUTH is DeVoid of **** ... You and what you label truth is nothing but, **** and therefore is not truth no matter how much you want it to be. I then elaborated that you are full of **** and therefore not capable of knowing truth!

Oh Baby.....lol

Kindly make no incorrect assumptions about me because I told you that your lifestyle was nothing like that of African American slaves.

"That is why t's so hard for gay people to get married"

This conversation has nothing to do with gays getting married. Go back to school.

*** hoc ergo propter hoc

I'm ignorant but you claim to be a true slave just like the slaves from Africa.

And yet I ask...

Were you kidnapped ?
Sold to your master?
Held against your will ?
Threatened with death or severe permanent disfigurment if you leave?
Threatened with death or severe permanent disfigurment if you disobey ?

If you have children will they also be forced to be slaves for their entire lives ? Can they be sold against your wishes ? Will they be beaten and bred at the whims or their masters?

Or are you full of shite

.Baby, told you to let it go...... *sigh*

Equations which have slavery and gay marriage as equivalents are works of fiction.

/<---- fully willing to put baby in the corner !

.<----laughing so hard

Oh, well Dente, sadly you are not allowed to decide what I am capable of knowing.

RedRuby - This has everything to do with gays, as much is it has to do with all oppression. It seems as if you are just refusing to read between the lines. Also, you keep discrediting that I corrected myself to be more closely related to the Roman/Greek style slavery, but I still hold to my notion that in a way it is similar to African slavery.

Dente - There are still people out there whom treat their slaves and slaves children in the way you have describe. My Master has learned from them, and is blood related to some of them. He has chosen to keep slaves in an entirely different manner, that does not make it any less slavery.

The definition of a slave is as follows:
A person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.
Although 'legally' (by government standards) I cannot be legal property, that's not to say that there aren't other ways in which it can be enforced and governed. I am also forced to obey my Master.

Anyhow, this has gone incredibly off topic. Not one person has tried to intelligently explain their views on why people are equal. I came on this thread to converse intelligently and learn something new, no one has attempted to meet that desire, you are all far more focused on attacking me as an individual.

.<----has not attacked

Ugh, sadly I've been put in time out for poor behavior before... It was rather upsetting, considering my upbringing.

A highly effective punishment I might add :) lol
(thought you guys would find that amusing, but more than likely somehow try to twist it and use it against, which is also amusing)

Edie - Then I thank you for that :)

Baby lets keep it simple you said " I am human property, buyable and tradeable... Kind of like what African people used to be"

Were you kidnapped ?Sold to your master?Held against your will ?Threatened with death or severe permanent disfigurment if you leave?Threatened with death or severe permanent disfigurment if you disobey ?If you have children will they also be forced to be slaves for their entire lives ? Can they be sold against your wishes ? Will they be beaten and bred at the whims or their masters?

Baby.... you really need to go back to school. I don't say that unkindly but your arguments are all over the place and still do not support your claim that you are a slave: "I still hold to my notion that in a way it is similar to African slavery."


A BDSM relationship is healthy under the safe, sane, consensual umbrella. If you are too scared to ever leave your Master and not have that choice (should you be ever feel your life is at stake), then we are talking something else altogether, aren't we?

As African American slaves were indeed killed for leaving their "masters" it insults all those (and their families) who have actually been part of this travesty.

Please grow up.

slav·ery : the state of a person who is a chattel of another
very is a system under which people are treated asproperty to be bought and sold, and are forced to work. Slaves held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand compensation.

Dente, I already answered your questions: "There are still people out there whom treat their slaves and slaves children in the way you have describe. My Master has learned from them [the masters who treat their slaves like that], and is blood related to some of them [the masters who treat their slaves like that]. He has chosen to keep slaves in an entirely different manner, that does not make it any less slavery."

To be a bit more in-depth: I sold myself to my Master. I will never have children, and if I did, my Master would allow them to choose what sort of life they wish to lead. As I have my Master has decided to do things differently. He is aware that not everyone is made equally, if I were theoretically to have a child who was dominant in nature, He could potentially teach it to become a master as well, if that is what they wished.

Where my Master is different from most others is that He believes people should not be forced into slavery, but many of them have a predisposition to follow direction rather than lead. You know?

I am only trying to make the point that not everyone is equal. Feminism is a great idea, and I don't believe that the wife should always be the one to "do the cooking and cleaning for the man." That there should be equal opportunity for women, which there already is, and that men should also have the choice of being run by a woman. It all ties in to what I've been trying to say, sometimes I just "DURP WORDS" but I am really just trying to have intelligent conversation.

But lets get back to your claim that 'not all people are created equal' and that this inequality justifies 'slavery'

"I still hold to my notion that in a way it is similar to African slavery." -

On a side note, for a slave you do seem to have unlimited access to the internet...

Equality doesn't mean of outcomes ...it means equality of choice and opportunity.

What you are living is chosen servitude and is not slavery like the Romans or Africans.

You should be careful in your statements especially since you want an intelligent conversation.

RedRuby - I'm not arguing anything, except the fact that I am a slave.

My 'arguments' are as follows:
"I am human property, buyable and tradeable... Kind of like what African people used to be. :)" - African people used to be buyable and tradeable. Not saying that would ever happen to me, but it is a possibly, an offer has been made on me before.
The I corrected myself saying: "Better simile - it's closer to Greek or Roman slavery. It's not sexual. It's "You need to do this because I said so, because it's what needs to be done." - I stated this because I was not forced into slavery like Africans had been, I sold myself into it.
After that I pretty much reiterated using different language each time.

A BDSM relationship is healthy under the safe, sane, consensual umbrella. If you are too scared to ever leave your Master and not have that choice (should you be ever feel your life is at stake), then we are talking something else altogether, aren't we? <- As for that, yes, we are talking something different than a BDSM style relationship, we are talking slavery. I would be completely scared to leave my Master, I would have to begin living for myself again, it's not all that great. In other words, I don't have a reason to want to leave my master at all...

Also, I'm not insulting anyone, I made a simile, if those aren't allowed than shoot the poets :)

You misunderstand equality to mean sameness and use that to attack feminism.

"As for that, yes, we are talking something different than a BDSM style relationship, we are talking slavery. I would be completely scared to leave my Master, I would have to begin living for myself again, it's not all that great."

If you are scared to leave due to insecurities about being alone, this is night and day from being scared to leave your Master because you are afraid he might kill you, as would happen to Romans or African slaves. It is not, I repeat, not, the same thing.

Please be careful that you did not enter such a relationship out of weakness as opposed to strength

I agree with ruby on this. Your trying to equate your chosen servitude, which you freely admit keeps you out of benefit and not by penalty of death, and it is disrespectful to actual slaves.

Your enamored with being labeled a slave, why?

Dente - The Romans/Greeks did choose their slavery. The Africans did not. I'm not speaking of the choice. I am speaking of the slavery, it does not matter how it came to be, what matters is that it is.
When I am speaking of equality, I am not speaking of outcomes either. I am saying that humans are not made equally, we are each made for a specific purpose, and that purpose isn't always the same as the purpose of others. More clearly, I am a slave (Or a "person who serves another", so we aren't confused by words that has historical bias) because that is what I am and not something I can choose to change. This is where that notion ties into feminism; not all woman were made to have equal opportunity as men (and vise versa).

Also RedRuby's - My Master has 5 slaves to whatever He needs done, He's not going to have things for me to constantly be doing, there literally isn't that much stuff to do. Also, as I have said, He believes that His humans should be treated like humans, He is allowing me to have down time :) He also likes it that I educate myself through the internet. "Knowledge is important to growth," and my Master wishes for me to grow into the best person I can, because that is useful for him.

This isn't about my being a slave! This is about equal opportunity, in every aspect.

I am trying to speak that feminism has gone so far as to start oppressing men, but they can't do anything about it because it would be considered sexist and oppressive. What I'm trying to speak is that women already have their equal opportunity and now they're getting greedy and simply want more and more and more until they have men in total submission.
It should be freedom of choice. Some men lead, some women lead. Some men follow, some women follow. It can't be equal for everyone.

What feminists should be worrying about is how to make things better. Not how to make things better for women.

Sweetie..... "He also likes it that I educate myself through the internet."

The above is the heart of the issue, I believe. You are using the internet to "educate" yourself. No good can come of this.

Your choosing to obey a Master (and I will assume since you have not indicated otherwise, it was a choice) is nothing comparable to how slaves have been historically treated.

Perhaps (and I mean this genuinely) you might consider taking a college course on this very topic.

it's worse than I feared ... Are you saying some people are born to be slaves and cannot be anything other than what they were born to be?

Baby the Roman slaves didn't choose their slavery ...you can't rewrite history like this ... Lets not devolve into silly attempts at revisionism...lets all be clear that slavery in Roman times was met with a rather well documented slave revolt. Don't tell me your name isn't spartacus!

I have said the very thing that equality is about choice and opportunity not of outcome.... That is exactly what "freedom of choice is".

" I am trying to speak that feminism has gone so far as to start oppressing men" <---- How? In what ways are men oppressed? What feminists are doing this?

From what I've looked into, the Romans did choose their slavery, the sold themselves into it. I could probably do more research on this though, which is the fun part of debate. I'm quite sure the revolt happened because the economy got better and the slaves figured they could be better off on their own, and so wanted out. (Please, call me Spartacus, I like the way it sounds)

"Are you saying some people are born to be slaves and cannot be anything other than what they were born to be?" - I'm saying that you wouldn't try to convince a fish to be a cat would you? They can successfully be something other than what they were meant to be, but not without fighting their basic nature, it's far healthier mentally to be what you are, rather than trying to change it. I mean, if you have the means to be an incredibly great athlete, why waste it by becoming an unsuccessful writer. It's a matter of reaching ones full potential.

To touch on oppressing men, I only have a few examples, but they're ones that I find pretty alarming. Such as a woman who wants to work in construction, if they were not hired over a man (lets say this man is more physically capable and better adept at doing the job), the female is capable of putting up a stink and calling it sexist favoritism and filing a lawsuit, while logically the man was simply better suited to the job. It's not unfair, the woman just wasn't physically suited for the job, no one took away that choice, that is simply how it is.

Another way is how women can hold children visitation, etc. over top of a man's head after divorce in order to get what they want. The legal system is so flawed in this way the a woman (once divorced from a man) is still able to divert the man's income from him and to her, leaving him with nothing, even though he has worked hard. I've seen men go bankrupt because they have to pay for their ex-wives living expenses, while their ex's lay around on a beach somewhere.
That's probably something I could research further in order to create more examples, but so far these are my observations...

RedRubies - I am actually learning a lot from the internet. I am learning about human nature, what sorts of things people find to be taboo, how to have intellectual debate (which I'm getting better at, I used to get really worked up about the smallest things) and things of that sort. I'm also learning about current events, and what sorts of things that people believe are important, which in turn is helping me think of solutions and ways these things could possibly be fixed. Mostly though, I get to read a lot, which is good for the brain. :)

RedRubies - I also think it's very important that I get other people to think, whether they agree with what I say or not :)

Baby, I think it is important to get other people to think as well, but that is not what you are doing here; you are just re-stating ignorance. I think you are probably a very decent person; just uninformed and that can be remedied. I really recommend not relying on the internet for "truths".

The legal system is flawed in many ways; this is not the fault of feminism.

" I've seen men go bankrupt because they have to pay for their ex-wives living expenses, while their ex's lay around on a beach somewhere."

Really, Baby? Or is that just a slightly exaggerated? Courts have mathematical calculations for alimony and support; no court is going to calculate an amount that makes anyone bankrupt. Please cite a specific case if you truly know of one so I may read about it.

" the female is capable of putting up a stink and calling it sexist favoritism and filing a lawsuit," okay so how does this relate to 1. Feminism and 2. Oppression of men?
And more importantly can you please site the legal cases where this has ever happened ?

Feminism doesn't oppress anyone! Feminism is all about civil rights

" no one took away that choice, that is simply how it is." <---- Once again as I have said feminism is equality of choice not outcomes... She had a equal choice/ opportunity to apply for the job ...whether she gets it or not is the Outcome.

*Waits for legal citations*

.<-----doubts legal citations will be found. Will wait as well
I feel like im at work. jeebus

" Another way is how women can hold children visitation, etc. over top of a man's head after divorce in order to get what they want. " <--- actually witholding visitation is illegal and is considered as a "negative" influence on children, in fact and in law there are 2 ways to guarantee losing custody of a child, not using your visitation time or inhibiting the other parent from using their visitation time. Lawfully after a custody agreement is ruled upon it is "contempt of court" to do anything to interfere with the parenting time of the other parent.

I am not re-stating ignorance, I have been re-stating ideas that you do not agree with, that does not make them ignorant. The internet holds a lot of truth, but also a lot of "untruths," I do not learn solely from the internet, I learn from people too, which are also full of "untruths." I rely on myself and using my observations in a logical manner to figure out what "truth" is really true. I do not believe something just because someone has told me to.

Also, I am not exaggerating: my Master had a child, when Him and the woman He was with separated, she took Him to court and wanted Him to pay child support, He had to pay a certain percentage of all of the child's cost to live, so they spent money on His child to the extreme so that He couldn't possibly pay anymore, and that is after this lady had maxed His credit and put Him into dept already. He just recently finished His bankruptcy.
A second example is of my friend, whose parents were recently divorced (Well, about two years recent), the amount of alimony that he has to pay leaves him with barely enough to pay his mortgage and food, more than likely he will have to sell his house and rent in order to sustain himself. My friends mother doesn't have a job, sits around on the computer all day, and is planning a trip across the seas with his money. All the while, he is working his butt off to make ends meat and support her lifestyle.

" The legal system is so flawed in this way the a woman (once divorced from a man) is still able to divert the man's income from him and to her, leaving him with nothing," <---- in which country because this isn't true in America

""" I've seen men go bankrupt because they have to pay for their ex-wives living expenses, while their ex's lay around on a beach somewhere." <---- how many times have you 'seen' this? Please name a few actual cases because I have never seen this.

I don't have any "citations," I speak from personal observation. I don't see how that's not enough.

Also; feminist uproars are caused by outcomes, such as in the example where the female has been declined the job position.

Dente - I have stated these situations in a previous reply.

Sorry my phone doesn't update as smooth as it should.

Anyways because no-one else has jumped onto this I will.

Your Master who is a MASTER by BIRTH somehow looses credibility in my book when 1. he can't manage to keep his baby mama under his control 2. he can afford 5 slaves but, not his duties to his child 3. He is your leader and master but, doesn't seem to have the knowledge to file a "modification" to adjust his "child support" it is a DIY form so maybe you can look it up on the Internet and help him out!!

.<-------not hating on baby but, wants her to rethink her choice of a master

How does feminism oppress men, BabySlave?

Ugh, I could explain to you why the situation didn't work out as perfectly as you say it should.

We'll just say the circumstances were not how they were originally intended, and its all in the past now. Dealt with, donsky. That was 10 years ago.

Damselfly, I have already mentioned various ways in previous replies.

Yeah, you can tell me but you can't understand for me, right? I guess I'm just not seeing any examples because I'm not seeing any examples

Baby you have talked about 2 instances of treatment you felt was "unfair" but, provided no real facts .... anyways even in your instances you have not shown a correlation between these and feminism or the oppression of men.
Is your Master oppressed?
Is your friends dad oppressed?
HOW is this the result of feminism.

I don't provide facts that I can copy and paste. Which shouldn't be necessary anyways.

The correlation between those and feminism is the fact that women fought to have these rules in place so they could have equal opportunity as men. The reasons these court rules (alimony) have been put into place is because women, having been stay at home moms in the past and unable to go seek education in order to sufficiently support themselves, did not have a way to provide for themselves after divorcing their husbands. I used to consider alimony a positive outcome of feminist ideas, until women started abusing it.

It's the result of feminism because alimony is a feminist idea, and now women everywhere can abuse their rights to alimony, and many of them.

Damselfly, if you look a few posts back to the reply where I begin by saying "I am not re-stating ignorance." That is where those examples are. Oppression is this: "Prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control." The fact that women can abuse alimony is unjust. The fact that women can use their children to manipulate men into being controlled after divorce is also oppression.
I can see that you are being air-headed for the sake of being air-headed. Being oblivious does not make me wrong, it makes you oblivious. You are using logical fallacy.

"feminist uproars are caused by outcomes, such as in the example where the female has been declined the job position."<-------- feminist uproars??? Over outcomes... provide ACTUAL verifiable examples please

"I do not believe something just because someone has told me to."

" I am a slave"


these two statements are exclusive of one another.

I don't have any other than examples from friends and family and random news bits I have heard over my life time.

Just because it's not "verifiable" by means of showing you a news article doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

If the female is upset enough by the fact that she hasn't gotten the job, I've heard of them trying to file lawsuits and the like.

Dente, if they are exclusive of one another, then look upon me as an oxymoron, because I have just proved you wrong. Also, again with logical fallacy, my being a slave still has nothing to do with what we were just talking about.

It has to do with people not being equal, but it has nothing to do with where the conversation was at. I can see you are trying to make a circle conversation out of this to try and somehow catch me at a contradiction, but that will not happen.
I have used this technique in arguments as well, I am not a fool.

I have not heard of this, and I am sorry but, with the internet things can be easily verified... asking you to do so isn't unfair. It is unfair for you to make baseless claims and eat my time, the time of others and space on my thread with baseless accusations and fictitious claims.

It is not fictitious, I simply would rather not waste my time looking at articles to verify my real life stories.
If you wish for your time to cease "being eaten" you are more than welcome to end our conversation.

If you are a slave you must do what your master says "because He says so" ... you have made that claim yourself. I am not trying to do anything but, point out that if you are the slave you claim to be, then you do in fact do things because He tells you to... end of discussion. You are either lying about being a slave or lying about doing things because someone told you to.

the reason slavery is brought into the equation was not of my doing but of your own... you stated people are not created equal and that is why you believe in slavery.

You have made several claims about feminism... and about people not being "equal" yet, you have provided nothing but anecdote, hyperbole and fictions... Provide a single verifiable claim, or verifiable fact or move along.

My story ... MY rules...of course I am free to do what I want...afterall, I am not a slave :)

. this seal snack time is quite painful

I don't deny that I do things because He tells me to. I still hold strong to my belief that people are not created equally.

If you are trying to make your statement in relation to the fact that I don't believe in something that I am told to believe just because someone told me to believe, it holds the same for my Master. The only difference is that I don't disagree with Him because He is right.

The most intelligent and logical person I have ever met in fact. He doesn't give me reason to disagree with Him, and even asks of me that if I don't agree or understand something He tells me, that I ask. He doesn't want me to be blindly following Him. As I stated before, knowledge is important to growth, and He wishes that I grow into the best person that I can be.
How is that so hard to understand?

I'm sorry, I do not follow your rules. The internet is not yours to make rules upon.

You are a slave, just in a different way. A slave to the ideals of others, but that's only my observation.

I don't need to provide a verifiable news story, I'm surprised you have never heard of any cases like the ones I have mentioned above, but that's not my problem.

Yet you state you are not free to do as you choose and not free to leave. Is he intelligent enough to file a child support modification ? Is he logical enough to keep his baby mama under his control?

All of this irrelevant of course.

Because you have yet to prove that 1. people don't deserve equality of opportunity and equality of choice 2. that some people are born not having the right to the equality in #1 3. That the solution to inequality is slavery and 4. That feminism is exclusive of equality.

Baby you may call me a slave all you like, we have seen the depth of your knowledge in that regard. I see the depth in your knowledge of feminism, of the court system and of relationships. You and your depth leave me worried that you do in fact need some water.

cheers drink it up.
It seems a rather dismal pattern.


I am not a slave just because you say I am....

a verifiable source isn't a news story silly goose. It shows a lack of interest in knowledge and growth of knowledge when you can't even bother to verify if what you "believe" has any factual basis. In fact that is downright ignorant.

and this is my story and therefore MY rules... want proof?

Baby, still no citations? Links to credible sources?

"I don't need to provide a verifiable news story, I'm surprised you have never heard of any cases like the ones I have mentioned above, but that's not my problem.

Oy........

RedRubies - I don't need to link you to news sources, I have provided stories that have been passed by word of mouth. It's up to you whether or not you want to believe them, I'm not sure how many times I need to explain that.

.... baby, do not test the waters.....Orcas have rules. *sigh*

RedRubies - http://www.dailycommercial.com/News/LakeCounty/022212alimony

Your wish granted. Oppression to men in the form of monetary gains by women.

"RedRubies - I don't need to link you to news sources, I have provided stories that have been passed by word of mouth."

Baby please.... stop. You have no idea how bad you are making yourself look. Honestly, I am saying this to you for you own good; I am cringing for you. Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it true. Please look up "Argumentum ad nauseam"; preferably not on the internet

RedRubies - I don't look bad in my eyes. That's all that matters. You know the saying "stand up for what you believe in even if you're standing alone?" More people should do that, I'm not concerned with how it makes you feel. If you want this to stop, then stop conversing. :) Agree to disagree, that's all that it takes.

If word of mouth is insufficient for you, that is not a problem of mine.

Baby- you made another oopsy.... that article was about a state having "antiquated alimony laws" and how the senate was voting to fix the situation. OOOPSY

"The group moved closer to their solution on Feb. 23, when House Bill 549 passed in an 83-30 vote and advanced to the Senate. The bill is intended to overhaul what FAR says is the state's antiquated alimony law.

"This is a great day for families in Florida," said FAR co-director Alan Frisher. "Florida is joining the rest of the country in creating alimony laws for the 21st century.""

That's not an oops. :/

There was proof in it of people facing situations of crappy alimony agreements. I gave you solid stories. Just exactly how you wanted.

Feminism and oppression are what caused the need for reform of the alimony laws.

Thanks for the link Baby, but the story you linked to was regarding Florida being one of the few states that awarded permanent lifetime alimony. The senate was noted as wanting to change this.... so this isn't applicable to your argument.

I appreciate you wanting to stand up for yourself, but sometimes if you are wrong, it's best to just acknowledge this and learn from the experience.

oh wait though someone didn't read the article because it talked about how feminism didn't mind reform as long as "older stay at home wives and mothers" still got "fair" treatment. SO again it is a oopsy. It also shows that this is AN EXCEPTION to the rule in terms of alimony. AND if that is the case is there only feminism in florida?

Reform is good :)

It wasn't a mistake that I posted that article.

lets talk about facts regarding alimony Traditionally, alimony was paid by a husband to his former wife, but since the 1970s there have been moves in many Western countries to gender equality (ie feminism) with a corresponding recognition that a former husband may also be entitled to alimony from his former wife.

Alimony has been discussed in ancient legal texts including the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi (#137-#142)[2] and the Code of Justinian.

The modern concept of alimony is derived from English ecclesiastical courts that awarded alimony in cases of separation and divorce. Alimony pendente lite was given until the divorce decree, based on the husband's duty to support the wife during a marriage that still continued. Post-divorce or permanent alimony was also based on the notion that the marriage continued, as ecclesiastical courts could only award a divorce a mensa et thora, similar to a legal separation today. As divorce did not end the marriage, the husband's duty to support his wife remained intact.

Some state statutes, including those of Texas, Montana, Kansas, Utah, Kentucky and Maine, give explicit guidelines to judges on the amount and/or duration of alimony. In Texas, Mississippi and Tennessee for example, alimony is awarded only in cases of marriage or civil union of ten years or longer and the payments are limited to three years unless there are special, extenuating circumstances. Furthermore, the amount of spousal support is limited to the lesser of $2,500 per month or 40% of the payee's gross income

In Maine, Mississippi, and Tennessee alimony is awarded in marriages or civil union of 10 to 20 years and the duration is half the length of the marriage barring extenuating circumstances.

Alimony is still unfair and oppressive. It's good that it's changing.

If you look closely at it, feminism is the only thing in the way of completely getting rid of alimony.

Feminism has worked in terms of alimony to include new family models, "working couples", "working wives", "stay-at-home dads", etc. there are situations where some parties to a divorce question whether traditional economic allocations made in a divorce are fair and equitable to the facts of their individual case. Several groups have proposed various forms of legislation to reform alimony parameters.

"Alimony is still unfair and oppressive" - Baby...... how is it unfair? If one spouse (traditionally it has been the woman) has stayed home to raise children she and her husband created, and their marriage ends in divorce, how can you say it is fair that she lose everything and not have some help to obtain additional skills and/or to live?

I know of a situation personally right now where a friend has had to pay a HUGE amount of alimony to her husband. She was the main worker in her business, and he had a small role and took care of their child. Now she is being ordered by the court to give him alimony. So be it. Is that unfair too?

Soo, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make about alimony there, but it's still interesting :)

It doesn't negate the fact that 40% of income is incredibly high. Say someone makes $2000 every month, has to give up forty percent of that is $800. That leaves you with $1200 for money to spend on your lively hood. Average rent for a single room apartment around here is $800, plus cellphone/tv/internet is another $100 or so (between $50 - $100), that leaves you with about $300, take off car insurance/bus fair, that's another $100 or so a month (monthly bus passes around here are $85, and car insurance is usually more than $100), that leaves you with about $200 for groceries and entertainment... The average person live on about $100 worth of food per week, give or take, so already that's putting you $200 in dept and gaining every month.

That's assuming the one paying alimony has gotten out of a mortgage, or car payments, and does not have to pay any remaining legal fees, etc. Which will dent their pay even further.

RedRubies - Webpage link or it's not legit and I don't believe you :)

Also, even though you have that story, it doesn't change my view that alimony is silly because people can abuse it.

I think it's good that it is changing.

I just said it happened to a friend. I know directly of the situation; it is not an internet rumour or urban legend :)

I posted two stories specific to people I know.

Links or it didn't happen :)

So because of TWO (per you) stories specific to people "you know" you deem feminism as a whole "Oppression to men in the form of monetary gains by women"?

By all means dear, if YOU can provide links or a valid argument as to how an antiquated alimony law in Florida is a good reason to dispense of feminism, please feel free to do so. I'll wait...

People can abuse cold medicine too whats your point baby?

Baby are you saying all forms of alimony are unfair? And that NO alimony should be allowed? THAT alimony should never ever be allowed?

*allows time for Googling*

I don't feel like going onto google for this.

I was making a point that because you discredit me for having stories that involved friends, why can I not discredit you for doing the same?
This has digressed. All you guys are looking for now is a weakness to pick upon.

I can see that it doesn't matter what sort point I make, that you are so deluded that it couldn't possibly matter.

What I am saying is that alimony was created due to feminism. Many people are capable of and will abuse their rights to alimony.
The reform that I brought into the topic is good, but feminism is not what has created reform, feminism is the cause for needing reform.

I brought up cited examples. Is this not good enough?

Incorrect Baby. My dear, you stated you directly that you knew two men hard done by alimony. I stated I knew a woman who was.

The difference is that you are prepared to disband feminism over the stories of two people you know. I am for the greater good; not just what may be good for me or my friend. So… unless you can provide a decent, *factual* argument (not just how you “feel” about something) that demonstrates feminism is responsible for the abuse of alimony, your point is moot.

Also, since you chose to post on Dente’s story, perhaps you could be courteous enough to answer the questions she asked:

“Because you have yet to prove that 1. people don't deserve equality of opportunity and equality of choice 2. that some people are born not having the right to the equality in #1 3. That the solution to inequality is slavery and 4. That feminism is exclusive of equality.”

The fact is that you discredit me because it's not a cited story.

You are for your own selfish greater good. I am here because your greater good is not equal to that of what the overall good should be (not saying that mine is what needs to be done). I'd say I've been quite factual. You just don't see it as because you don't want to give me credit because I do not agree with you. When faced with adversary, you get defensive and shrouded, and don't think of things objectively as you could.
As I have said before, quite clearly, and more than once (I might add) that feminism is why alimony exists in the first place, its not the reason for the abuse, but it is the reason it can be abused in the first place.

Also, allow Dente to speak for herself. I already answered those questions, multiple times, and even once after she wrote that message. (That is to say I answered those questions before she asked, AND afterwords in a more chronological order)

I don't feel you answered my questions. I also don't feel you are reading my responses. Because BABYcakes, alimony was the creation of religion and predates feminism. Also, I made several factual claims about why you should re-investigate your claims. You dare accuse me of not "listening" to you ... thats offensive because I have done nothing but, listen to you and repeatedly demonstrated that I am doing so.

And you will not accuse anyone of selfishness when you have absolutely no proof. THAT my dear is disgusting in its ignorance... you are quickly earning the title of bigot.

My dear you discredit yourself with statements such as:

"He also likes it that I educate myself through the internet."
"I do not believe something just because someone has told me to." followed by " I am a slave"

You did not answer Dente's questions; you spoke of how you "felt" about things and what you'd "heard" but did not answer. I am the third person to ask you for specific clarifications.

So to repeat:

“Because you have yet to prove that 1. people don't deserve equality of opportunity and equality of choice 2. that some people are born not having the right to the equality in #1 3. That the solution to inequality is slavery and 4. That feminism is exclusive of equality.”

I'll throw one in as well:

If feminism is the reason alimony was created, should men then not receive it either?

It seems as though my past comment either did not post or was deleted. Allow me to write it again.

1. I need not prove that people don't deserve equality of opportunity and choice, I do not disagree with that.
2. I need not prove that people are born without the right to equality, I did not argue that.
3. I need not prove that the solution to inequality is slavery, because that was not a point, or even a solution I had mentioned.
4. I never once said that feminism is exclusive of equality.
5. Men should not also receive alimony.

Clarifications:
1. People deserve to be treated in the way they need to be treated in order to reach their fullest potential.
2. Not all people are born equal.
3. Slavery is how I am able to live to my fullest potential, others may find it in other ways.
4. Feminism is in its own way causing some forms of oppression, such as in the two examples I have provided.
5. The government should create "get you back on your feet" programs and abolish alimony so that the ex spouses no longer have to be relied upon for the choices made by those who are receiving the alimony. The reason people need alimony is due to their own insufficient means of livelihood and should we should not be penalizing the ones paying it for the poor choices of those receiving it.
Once a divorce is finalized, it should be finalized.

Prove that "not all people are born equal".... your wording is wrong. Equal doesn't mean SAME ... no-one thinks people are born the same, they believe they are born EQUAL.
if not then provide some sort of verifiable proof.

The two incidents of "oppression" you claim are caused by feminism are disputed. so you haven't proven anything.

alimony is a "get back on your feet" type of program....why should tax payers be asked to foot the bill for failed marriages?

Baby, thank you for answering the questions posed of you, but have distinct concerns:
“The government should create "get you back on your feet" programs and abolish alimony”

So…. taxpayers should pay to support people who divorce so that one person in the marriage does not have to pay alimony? Which services would you like to cut to find the funding for that?

“The reason people need alimony is due to their own insufficient means of livelihood and should we should not be penalizing the ones paying it for the poor choices of those receiving it.”

So if a person decides to stay home and raise their children, that is a poor choice? Wow, that’s pretty dismissive of stay at home moms. They work very hard and that choice is completely valid.

You realize that to have any options at all in terms of “livelihood” for women was a direct result of feminism? You contradict your beliefs with these statements.

"He also likes it that I educate myself through the internet."
I agree with RedRubies. If you want to be educated you really should find another source since everything on the internet is not true, correct, or educational.

"What I'm trying to speak is that women already have their equal opportunity and now they're getting greedy and simply want more and more and more until they have men in total submission."

This may be true for some women, but not all of them (look in the mirror honey). You should replace the word women with some people and replace the word men with people. From what you claim, you are a completely submissive slave to a man, and find nothing wrong with it. If that is true shouldn't women be entitled to the same if they want it, and why should people like you feel that is a bad thing for women, but an OK thing for men, and that men who want to be masters are good people, but women who might want the same aren't? Can you see how biased your thinking obviously is?

"From what I've looked into, the Romans did choose their slavery, the sold themselves into it."

That is not slavery. That is more a kin to indentured servitude which is also illegal in the US and almost everywhere else, just like slavery is.
For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would sell themselves to another person to become they equivalent of their employee. Why not just work for them? And how on earth could your "master" afford to buy 5 slaves if he was forced into bankruptcy by his wife because he had to pay excessive child support? Honestly . . . it sounds like you have been duped.

"Such as a woman who wants to work in construction, if they were not hired over a man (lets say this man is more physically capable and better adept at doing the job), the female is capable of putting up a stink and calling it sexist favoritism and filing a lawsuit, while logically the man was simply better suited to the job.  It's not unfair, the woman just wasn't physically suited for the job, no one took away that choice, that is simply how it is. "

That's right. That is how it is. Companies are not required to hire PEOPLE who are less capable of doing the job they need done than another person is. Companies don't have to hire a woman no matter what. And anyone is capable of "putting up a stink" and calling it sexist favoritism and filing a lawsuit", regardless of their gender. Men do it too. Its part of equality.

"Another way is how women can hold children visitation, etc. over top of a man's head after divorce in order to get what they want. The legal system is so flawed in this way the a woman (once divorced from a man) is still able to divert the man's income from him and to her, leaving him with nothing, even though he has worked hard. I've seen men go bankrupt because they have to pay for their ex-wives living expenses, while their ex's lay around on a beach somewhere."
Oh please . . . this isn't true. As Dente mentioned, if a woman tries to cheat a man by limiting his ability to, or refusing to let him, visit his children she is going to find herself in serious legal trouble. And if a woman who divorces a man is capable of working, or getting an education so she can begin working, she is going to be required to do so. The payment of long-term alimony is becoming less and less common, and a man or woman should always have to pay to support their children if they divorce. A spouse should never be entitled to just walk away from a marriage and their children scott free If a woman tries to do it she is considered an evil ***** who viciously and selfishly abandoned her children, but when man does it he is often viewed by people like you as doing what men should be able to do, and he gets sympathy when he ends up getting caught and hauled off to court to be ordered to do what a good, honorable person would have agreed to do in the first place.
And just as a fish should not be convinced to be a cat, a person should not be convinced to be a dog or a beast or burden, ie. slave as you claim you are.

"I am not re-stating ignorance, I have been re-stating ideas that you do not agree with, that does not make them ignorant."

Clinging to the notion that facts that are false or incorrect are ideas that are correct is true ignorance. A fact and and idea are two completely different things. If you continue to claim that facts that intelligent people know are false are just ideas that you believe are true, you are proving your ignorance.

"I rely on myself and using my observations in a logical manner to figure out what "truth" is really true. I do not believe something just because someone has told me to."

That is a good thing and mistake. You should never believe something just because someone has told you to (like your master). An intelligent person objectively researches something thoroughly from a factual standpoint to find out if it is true or false. Simply relying on yourself and your observations to determine if something is true or false can also result in ignorance.

"He had to pay a certain percentage of all of the child's cost to live, so they spent money on His child to the extreme so that He couldn't possibly pay anymore, and that is after this lady had maxed His credit and put Him into dept already. He just recently finished His bankruptcy.  My friends mother doesn't have a job, sits around on the computer all day, and is planning a trip across the seas with his money.  All the while, he is working his butt off to make ends meat and support her lifestyle."

Its "meet" not "meat", and just as you stated above you shouldn't believe something just because someone has told you to, or because they tell you it is true. The laws in almost every state require that a person pay a percentage of their earnings for child or spousal support. It is not based on a "certain percentage of all of the child's cost to live" as you indicated your master told you.

"I don't have any "citations," I speak from personal observation. I don't see how that's not enough."

Because what you merely observe and have had explained to you about what is happening, or happened by someone who wants you to believe it, may not be what is actually happening, or actually happened.

"If you are a slave you must do what your master says "because He says so" ... " "I don't deny that I do things because He tells me to. "

Which may also include believing things which are not true.

"The only difference is that I don't disagree with Him because He is right."

How do you know that he is right if you don't take the time to do your research and find out?

"He doesn't give me reason to disagree with Him, and even asks of me that if I don't agree or understand something He tells me, that I ask. "

Ask who? Him? And do you really believe that if he wants you to believe that something he tells you is true he is going to provide you with answers that won't support what he is telling you. Simply believing what someone tells you, and then if you aren't sure asking them about it, and then believing their explanation is called being gullible.

"It doesn't negate the fact that 40% of income is incredibly high. Say someone makes $2000 every month, has to give up forty percent of that is $800. That leaves you with $1200 for money to spend on your lively hood. Average rent for a single room apartment around here is $800, plus cellphone/tv/internet is another $100 or so (between $50 - $100), that leaves you with about $300, take off car insurance/bus fair, that's another $100 or so a month (monthly bus passes around here are $85, and car insurance is usually more than $100), that leaves you with about $200 for groceries and entertainment... The average person live on about $100 worth of food per week, give or take, so already that's putting you $200 in dept and gaining every month."

ARE YOU COMPLETELY INCAPABLE OF SEEING IT FROM THE WIFE'S PERSPECTIVE? If she has been a stay at home mom and housewife, because that is what both she AND THE HUSBAND wanted her to do, or if its what just the husband wanted her to do, she will not have any job kills or employment history that will provide her with the ability to get a job and support herself right away. If she is in the situation you wrote about above she will only be getting $800 per month to live on, and the husband will be getting $1200 per month. That leaves her with only $800 to spend on her livelihood. After adding up everything you believe a man requires for his livelihood, if she requires the same she will be $600 in debt and gaining every month. And that is assuming she has gotten out of a mortgage, or car payments, and does not have to pay any remaining legal fees, etc. which will dent her ability to survive even further. And if she has to educate herself in order for her to find employment and as a result has to pay the fees associated with obtaining that education she will be dented even further. Does that seem fair to you? How on earth is she going to get "a trip across the seas" with the husband's money under those types of circumstances? Do you really believe alimony is unfair because after a divorce stay-at-home moms and housewives should just get the boot and perhaps end up homeless and begging on the street as a result to survive? Do you really think that would benefit society as a whole?
Here are some links for you to bring you into modern day reality : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/10/us-divorce-women-alimony-idUSBRE8490YW20120510
http://www.divorce360.com/divorce-articles/alimony/information/women-who-pay-alimony.aspx?artid=1065
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/role-reversal-wives-angry-paying-alimony/Story?id=8662940&page=1#.UKG2m4dfAwA
http://www.learnvest.com/2012/05/more-women-pay-alimony-as-gender-roles-shift-123/
Want some more? And the downside is women can be just as pissed off, and feel as ripped off as men do when they have to pay their husband alimony and child support, but that is the way equality plays out, except many people (like you) are still far more accepting of men having to pay the consequences and suffering as a result, then they are of women.

/<------agrees with ruby ....on every statement.

.<-------- and agrees with ladyblu.

.<-------------------------agrees with Dente and ruby :-)

Damn LadyBlu, good points! (lol thx Dente)

I would also like to add that slavery is illegal. If you truly are a slave as you claim, your master would not let you be writing about it on the internet where what you write can be traced by the authorities resulting in your master being hauled off to jail. If you were truly the kind of slave you claim to be you would be spending all of your time when he is around waiting on him hand and foot, and being watched and monitored to ensure you aren't running away or ratting him out, and when he isn't around you would be locked in a box under a bed, or locked in a basement, or the like, with nothing more than a mattress to lay on, and a bucket to relieve yourself in. You wouldn't be given the opportunity to do what you are doing here on EP.
I think you are full of it and are the kind of troll who likes to write things that you think will stir people up so I won't be wasting anymore time dealing with your silly claims.

In real slavery, the slaves gaining knowledge is actually not beneficial to the Master, despite Baby having access to the Internet I worry she isn't finding much knowledge but, is instead causing much stirring and titillation... but, I won't hate on her for doing her thing.

LadyBlue, I stopped reading your comment after you made a shot at my grammar. Again, more evidence that I am being attacked for having a different view point than the majority.

Also, all of the claims made about mine not being a "real slave," happen to be completely false, whether or not you wish to agree with it or not, it's not my problem.

Also Dente, gaining knowledge is actually beneficial to my Master. I am learning about people right now :) As I have said before, learning is important to growth and my Master wishes for me to grow into my full potential.

Let me rephrase part of that, I am not learning about facts. I am learning about human behavior.

BabySlave, now I've heard what you've got to say I totally believe that you are a real slave, without any civil rights, 100% answerable to and dependant upon your master, and that for you there can be no way out of it, ever. I'm convinced. I just hope he doesn't beat you too hard and too often, and that he gives you enough to eat

Damsel - he can't afford to feed her, he pays *gasp* child support, for his child, that he made, with a lady who *gasp* defied all the odds and, *super gasp* escaped him and then took him to court, and collects money from him, for his child, whom she raises without the guide of the Master.

Yeah well the other woman doesn't sound like she was his slave. Duh! Honestly Dente, for an educated woman you are remarkably dense at times!!! Get a grip!!! BabySlave really IS a slave. Her master can't possibly afford to run another 'free' woman with rights and reasonable expectations if he's been forced to pay child maintenance to the last one. Baby probably signed a legally binding contract of total subjugation. Gruel is cheap. Anyway if he dumps her she'd prefer to live rough on the streets than accept alimony. This isn't just her sexual fantasy, you know. Again dente - duh!!!

Damsel- Good points all around but, I can't just believe what someone tells me unless they are my Master.

That's coz you're one of them new-fangled civil rights feminist types

"In real slavery, the slaves gaining knowledge is actually not beneficial to the Master"
This is entirely true and is why blacks were not permitted to attend school until after slavery was abolished.
"despite Baby having access to the Internet I worry she isn't finding much knowledge but, is instead causing much stirring and titillation... but, I won't hate on her for doing her thing"
Neither will I, I just won't bother with her nonsense anymore. The only reason I ever exhibit hate is because the person I am exhibiting it to has exhibited it as well. I am trying to overcome that and be more like RedRubies.

You better watch out Dente because maybe "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" - LOL.

Awww Ladyblu..thank you. I think you are pretty pretty cool too! ;-)

Your welcome RedRubies. I really do think this person is a fake. If someone truly was an uneducated slave, like she claims she is, they would be more humble and subservient, and wouldn't write the way she does, and exhibit the arrogance and egotism that she does. I think she is someone who claims to be a slave to attract the attention of people who are attracted to slaves. Either that or she is someone who is pretending to be the kind of person they wish they could find. I also wonder if she might really be that "kaveman" guy or knightruiner, and they are pretending to be the kind of woman they claim they have, or wish they could have, but never ever will, because that kind of woman doesn't exist, and if a woman like that did exist, she would never want to be with a men like them.

I can't believe that you don't believe her! What possible reason would she having for making stuff like that up? LOL

correction ... Ladyblu it isn't knightruiners dream to have a slave because he is a man going his own way.

Oh that's right. I forgot - LOL.

Lol, you guys are so full of contradictions. Making arguments, then arguing against and for them at the same time.

Please, continue. I wish to read more :)

We're behaving like mad people, aren't we?

You're behaving like people people.

@Damsel Satire and Wit is a gift only appreciated by the intelligent and informed. I'm incredibly amused by our new friend!

It's being a slave what's made her a satyr and a wit

It's being who I am that has made me who I be...

@7
im happy you like being you but your comments have no regard towards the article? You say you left that first comment to "stir the pot" which means you are only looking for drama.

@7
you say your like the African slaves but they didn't have a choice, you do in the matter so you are nothing like them, comparing yourself to actual slaves is rather selfish of you in the fact that some of those african slaves you were talking about were raped or murdered, some of them had their friends or others killed in the process, wore chains and made to work for Masters in fields and houses and sometimes basements. There is nothing wrong in the lifestyle you chose for yourself but comparing yourself to people who were kidnapped and tortured is disgraceful to the dead, grow some self respect.

Too long, did not read.
Finished talking about this as well.

You are quite right. These so called educated people know nothing!

The too long didn't read comment says it all... It reflects poorly on her Master because it shows she is not using the internet to 'better herself ' or 'attain new knowledge' we don't know if this disobedience is willful or caused by lack of the ability ...however it clearly demonstrates that Master isn't 'keeping ' his slaves very well.

No Dente, it means this is a circle argument that isn't worth my time at the moment.

I think that this comment thread is a record for EP. It's the longest comment thread on a single comment that I have seen here. All starting with a young girl pretending that she is in real slavery for attention.

Yep, I'm totally pretending ;)

Don't want to deviate away from this but, serious question here. 7ofScribes, do you know how much cash changed hands for you? I ask seriously because I'd like to know if there is an actual marketplace for slaves and what the going rate is, and what it's based on (stuff like beauty, youth, virginity, educational qualifications that can be put to use, state of health, etc) This is actually quite an interesting story

It's just my curiosity though. I'm not writing a book on it. Yet

As I said previously I gave myself to my Master.

He has told me what I'm worth on the market, I didn't want to be made aware of it before, but He told me anyways... I'm thinking it was to help me realize that I am worth keeping.

LOL! ... yet... *shifty eyes*

If you've never read the trilogy by Laura Antoniou; The Marketplace; The Slave; and; The Trainer I recommend them. My husband's DD circle of men loved them and they normally don't have time for novels

Interesting, I'll have to look them up. Are they legit, or more for kinksters and fetishists?

@ affinity I think a thred between jani and I got to 300

I love it when a slave dismisses the lifestyles of others as 'kink and fetish' how very open minded and inclusive of them o_O

I'm referring to the people who take the terms "master and slave" and use them in the bedroom.

That has nothing to do with open mindedness. I'm getting really annoyed by all of the comments associating things that have nothing to do with each other, they don't make sense and I dislike things that aren't logical.

They are legit, but definitely erotica

Hawwwt, I'll probably check them out ;)

(I may be a slave, but that don't mean sex isn't hawt) ahah!!!

.<-------------keeping this thread alive.

Lets go for 400 comments!

lolol AIM HIIIGH!!!

. LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO

. we need a new thread. this thread is giving me a headache with all the scrolling! D: *whale cries*

Please I beg you start a new thread, I'm getting RSI! I love this thread and have been following it avidly, this has to be one of the best comment threads I've ever seen in on my time here, it's had the lot for me but I can't hack all this freaking scrolling any longer and fear I will have to abandon it if you guys don't take it to the top of the page *Troll drops to her knees in supplication to you*

*cries for Troll* my wrist hurts. I know your pain

Lol!

Baby, I'm presuming that's you having a Lol! How could you do that to me, you made me scroll all the way down here for a freaking Lol! Have you no shame at all woman? LMFAO! I Repeat can you all please take it to the top of the freaking page before I lose the will to live! *Stomps of sulking*

AHAH!! Sorry, quick! Someone post something controversial in another post!

Not interested in reading your comments because this conversation has long burnt out and I'm not interested in reiterating statements I have made previously.

I'm glad to know that you're interested in perverted movies, I for one am not interested in "pervertedness," the lifestyle I am in has nothing to do with being a pervert :)

@7
Actually it deals a lot with the lifestyle you are in, depending on how one takes it and how you feel about it. Just saying. A person who doesn't know about that lifestyle and finds out you are a slave might think you are a pervert for example, its wrong for them but not to you, that is being you are an actual slave and not a troll, but since you just called me a pervert but that movie is in the category of what you are actually about, I reckon your a fake ;D

@7
lol so your just a troll right?

@7
what do you really know about the lifestyle in which you are engaged in?

Oh yes, I am in fact quite fake. I think I already agreed with you on that, why are you arguing?

I know enough about the life I am living to know what it is, if you do not believe me then by all means you are entitled to your own opinions.

@7
I know I am entitled to my opinions, hence why I put my opinions out there lol. I was just merely curious and making conversation, you are taking it the wrong way and making snide comments, just people in that kind of lifestyle usually are not so rude, which is why I called you fake because people in that lifestyle usually get judged a lot so why judge others? Normally it doesn't get that way, which is why I called you a fake. Plus I was just curious why you would relate in your previous comments to african slaves who were murdered? Just curious lol thats all.

I am a slave in the way that they were slaves, they served their Master. My Master might not be violent, but He is a Master regardless.

I don't believe that anywhere I have been snide, or have judged others. I speak intelligently and logically, if that is rude, then sue me.

@7
Why would I sue you? I don't need your Master's money lol I got my own :D. You can speak intelligently and logically and still be rude, you act like that doesn't go in the same category sometimes, its ignorant to say someone's intelligent and cannot be rude. That's like saying someone who goes to college will be deserving of getting a better job over a poor person even though the poor person is perhaps smarter lol just because you are smart doesn't mean you cannot be rude, it doesn't exclude anything, its rather stereotypical to say such a thing.

plus i still don't understand how you can be judgemental leading the life you lead... ummm if its anyone who gets misunderstood a lot its the lifestyle, lol never thought I would see the day but I guess it happens.

Low I actually think 7s judgmentalness Is a sheild ...she doesn't like being called a pervert and feels it's negative effects rather keenly so she uses the word as a weapon against others who only do what she does on a part time basis ...it is ignorant but comes as a internal defense not a judgment against others as much as of herself this is why she is blind to it's duplicity

All I read is blah blah blah blah blah "let's fault her for the faults we see in ourselves." I'm really getting bored of this.

@Dente
I like how you explain things, you explain in a way that I understand when no one else does lol why is that? Why didn't they just say that??? I would of understood I guess, I was only being nice and trying to suggest a movie which is good in my opinion but might not be in others, I like the movie because even though its not based on a true story its based around a lot of issues in which this lifestyle brings, not bad issues just how others can be judgemental sometimes and have pre conceived (if I spelled that right) notions about society. But oh well I guess it was a lame attempt at apologizing for getting carried away earlier whoever they are just didn't catch on quick enough lol.

@7
lol I'm not blaming you for anything so what "fault" are you talking about?

Calling me ignorant and judgmental and blind. Those are considered fault, or in other words character flaws, however you wish to look at it.

But if I do recall correctly, I was never judgmental to anyone, the statements I have made are not out of ignorance, and I can see quite well even without my reading glasses, thank you.

I never said you couldn't read or see thank you :D I said maybe you should read all of the statements rather than parts and then drawing your own conclusions before you are even done reading, that ACTION is ignorant, I didn't say you yourself is ignorant, had you read all of my comments previously I said in one comment the movie mention was a lame attempt at an apology for jumping on quick judgements that I made earlier, had you read all of it, you would of known. I didn't call you judgemental either, again its your actions that state otherwise in a couple of comments you sent to me even if you don't feel like you are doesn't mean somebody else wont take it another way, sometimes that happens, but I don't know you so how can I say that you are a judgemental or ignorant person? A couple of your comments seemed like you were just a tad bit, so I just mentioned what I felt about it, that is how you say, my opinion of your comments but not who you are as a person being as I don't know you so I can't make those judgements.

I was talking about what Dente said, you agreed with Dente, in turn that means you also think these things.

Anyhow, I'm finished talking to you unless there are other illogical things I want to point out to you.

@7
OK well since your too good to read what I actually wrote, I'll just let you be after this. By the way you turned this conversation onto Dente, this had nothing to do with anyone else, nice try though its really not healthy. Its not illogical to wonder why someone would relate to African slaves lol, like I said you say they chose to be with their Masters, but if they did than why were their lives endangered back then? Made to work, families killed etc etc, that doesn't sound like a choice at all.
If you want to be a slave or submissive than by all means go ahead and do you, its not a bad lifestyle just do it for yourself and never compare yourself to an entire race of people who were made to be oppressed, its disrespectful to the dead who chose to die for that exact same reason.

You're frustrating to talk to. Read what I wrote before jumping to conclusions, you are putting words into my mouth that I did not say. Also, I did not turn this conversation onto Dente, if you read what I wrote it clearly is about you. YOU agreed with what Dente said, therefore they are also your thoughts. This has nothing to do with her, in fact I don't even think I replied to anything she has said recently. Therefore - Illogical, go back and read a bit more, get things straight, and I promise I'll read what you have written as well :)

Also, I don't have to do what you tell me to, I can make comparisons to which ever group of people I feel like. Example: I have tastes similar to Indian culture because I like hummus.

"As I said previously I gave myself to my Master."

But, that isn't what you said which suggest further that you are not being honest here since people who are lying often cannot remember what they previously said (or wrote). You wrote above:

"To be a bit more in-depth: I sold myself to my Master."

So which is it? Did you "give" yourself to your Master or "sell" yourself to your Master? Which claim are you going to cling to now?

Ladyblue has got you there, 7ofScribes. You did say that. In fact it's what prompted me to wonder what the going rate for a girl slave of your age is. (I'd still like to know)

Yes damelfly. If she in fact sold herself to her Master as she originally claimed, then she should know how much she was paid and should be willing to tell us.

Well she doesn't HAVE to tell us. She might not have fetched a very good price as she brokered the deal herself, or maybe she wasn't a virgin. There are all kinds of reasons why she might want to keep it to herself. Plus of course it might not be a simple cash deal, either. She said he objects to paying child maintenance. Anyway, no matter how fishy it sounds there is probably some extraordinary and complex explanation beyond our combined imagination

I meant "sold" and "give" as the same thing. "Technically I sold myself to my Master" because I was really far into debt, and by "selling" myself, the debt was no longer my concern. I think of it as a trade I supposed, which is why it's "like" selling and giving at the same time.

Apart from that, an offer was made on me in the past. I won't be specific, because you guys wouldn't believe the price if I told you anyways, but girls my age vary in price... Age isn't the only thing they take into account when pricing out a slave, it has to do with sex, weight, height, fertility. I'm not sure other specifics, those are just what I'm aware of.

Also, I'm really confused, I don't think I said anything about my Master "objecting" to pay child support... :/

7, did he take on your debt when he already had issues with child support payments?

The child with the crazy lady was over 10 years ago... I came to Him a little over a year ago.

He used to have a lot of money, but crazy lady maxed His credit cards and stuff.

That was part of why He was unable to deal with the child support stuff, from my understanding.

He didn't pay my debts Himself, He has control over all of my income, so He paid it all off and is working on making my credit immaculate (yeey!!)

Who needs good credit of their own when you have other people to have good credit for you?

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I agree with what this guy is saying for the most part. Though, I still don't consider myself a femenist.

I don't know about wanting to drop my panties for this guy though, he's kinda young for me.

Your one of the "I'm not a feminist but" feminists!

Well, there's a lot of bashing of men that I don't agree with, but I do believe in equal rights among the sexes and ethnic groups. People should be judged by their abilities to perform a job, not by their skin pigment or sex organ.

I also let my son play with dolls and my daughter play with trucks. My son use to brush my daughters barbie's hair and dress her up, while my oldest daughter played with his dump truck. Sorry to burst anyones bubble on stereotypes, but my son is still strait. My daughter turned out bisexual, but I don't think it had anything to do with playing with a dump truck.

I agree with everything you say!

oh and when my son was 4, he thought it was fun to put on my high heals and walk in them around the house. All my kids did it actually.

I agree totally.

Of course, kids will play with whatever they want to play with. It will not change them.

I don't have to identify myself as any group if I don't choose to. Just because I don't call myself a feminist, does not mean that I do not agree with equal rights.

affinity, are you saying you aren't up for equal civil rights for everyone by saying you aren't a feminist? Because let"s be clear, it's what the video seems to be about. And what man bashing?