AVFM Comes To India! (3000 Words)

Yaay!! My favorite misinformation movement has landed on Indian shores! *Imagine me welcoming them in the traditional Indian way with a garland of yellow marigolds and a platter full of incense and sweets*

Okay, so Anil Sharma has become the new Indian mascot for AVFM. The following is his article on Monster Misandry in India. His statements are in bold and enclosed within asterix to impart the sense of emphasis that MRAs so covet. My rebuttals are in plain text or italics. Get yourself some popcorn!


A Passage From India
http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/a-passage-from-india/

***In response to Paul Elam’s request to hear from the men of India, I have the following to say. I am what you may call the average Indian male and I fall into the category that is the most hated, a young Indian male. Now, I cannot really provide you with statistics as I am no researcher, but I can provide you with accurate descriptions of misandry I have seen and experienced throughout the country. I have seen it happen countless times and have been subjected to official discrimination based on my sex as well.***
Let’s see…
 
***In New Delhi, which is infamously called the Rape Capital, men are treated like beasts. Since the preconceived notion is that men are the perpetrators and a woman cannot lie about being troubled by a man, even the slightest hint of discomfort shown by a woman could mean doomsday for a man. ***
To begin, this guy gets his facts from the same cesspool of generalization as other MRAs. Men treated like ‘beasts’ in New Delhi? The beast must be a privileged creature! Preconceived notions that women cannot lie about being troubled by a man? Declining sex ratio (866 women for 1000 men in New Delhi, 2011), female infanticide, female foeticide, rampant eve-teasing, acid-throwing, dowry harassment and deaths, honour killings, a culture which sweeps sex under the carpet… I could go on and on. And the preconceived notion is that women can and do lie about rape and eve-teasing – which is why the police are so hostile towards victims and often refuse to register their complaints. There have been incidents in which rape victims have been raped again in all-male police stations.
And what exactly do you mean by ‘doomsday for a man’? Conviction rates in India are abysmally low for almost all crimes, due to overpopulation in prisons and a sluggish judiciary. The statics for rape, according to the Hindustan Times are:

(In 1990, 41% rape accused were convicted. In 2000, the figure was 29.8% and in 2011, 26.6%)
 
***The rapes that actually do happen are mostly at night when girls roam around unguarded in isolated places, but the media portrays it as a crime that happens around the clock in every possible area. ***
I want every reader to read this line again - The rapes that actually do happen are mostly at night when girls roam around unguarded in isolated places – doesn’t it sound a wee bit as if…. Attention ladies! The bar for rape-tolerance has been lowered! While the AVFM article ‘Challenging the Etiology of Rape’ claimed that it was okay to rape scantily-clad women  who got drunk and flirted with men in nightclubs, our newest star Anil Sharma believes that rape is more understandable if girls who roam around unguarded in isolated places get raped! What are these MRAs going to ask for next? Four male witnesses, perhaps?
Rape is a crime that happens can happen at any time of the calendar or clock (humans don’t have a ‘mating season’, right?), to a woman who might be wearing a burqua or a bikini-bottom, and yes… it can happen in any possible area. For your information, the accused in the recent Delhi gangrape drove the bus around for two hours on some of the busiest roads in the city. What more proof do you want?
 
***I do not know anybody who has known rape victims personally but I know many who knew murder, attempted murder and assault victims. Statistics would easily tell you that murder and assault are more common in New Delhi than rape, and that men are murdered and otherwise harmed much more frequently than women. No one is rioting on the streets about what is happening to men.***
Anil Sharma does not know anyone who knows rape victims personally, leave alone knowing a rape victim personally. The people at AVFM have obviously chosen a very well-informed mascot to represent MRAntism in India. One can fully trust the unbiased nature of his opinions.
When you blame misandry for mostly men being victims of murder, assault, etc., you forget that most murderers, assaulters etc., are also men. Of course, I’m not saying that it’s okay for a guy to murder another guy. What I am saying, is that most men are not murdered/assaulted due to misandry. But the MRAs don’t seem to be blaming the murderers - a guy can’t take a break, right? They just want to draw attention away from women’s issues – pulling women down to elevate themselves.
 
***It is an attitude you see reflected in many other ways in Indian culture. Our buses have seats reserved for women; the front half. One row is reserved for senior citizens and one more row is reserved for handicapped travellers. Now, the rows reserved for senior citizens and handicapped travellers may or may not always exist. But every bus will have seats reserved for women. I stand up out of courtesy for middle-aged men and women. I believe that they deserve respect as they are an elder to me.***
Okay… for my readers from Western countries, I’d like to make one thing very clear. A public bus in New Delhi has about 40 seats. Out of 40, 8 seats are reserved for women. Anyone who can do simple arithmetic knows that this is one-fifth, not ‘the front half’, as claimed by Anil. 2 seats are reserved for elderly people and 2 seats for the handicapped. Moreover the seats reserved for senior citizens and the handicapped always do exist – I have not seen a public bus where they don’t – it is the law and a public bus conductor is liable to face penalty if it is violated.
 
***But I have seen girls, young college girls, making old men sitting on seats reserved for women stand up so that they can have the seat.***
The old men have reserved seats of their own. They can just as easily ask the ‘young Indian men’ sitting on their seat to get up. Just as you have seen able-bodied women asking old men to rise for them, I have also seen the hated (according to you) ‘young Indian men’ brazenly occupying the seats reserved for old people.
 
***I come home after working for 10 hours in the office. I never get a seat in the bus. The back of the bus is always full and if the front half is empty, I can only sit there for a few minutes unless I am really lucky. As soon as a girl enters a bus, I am out. Due to sheer embarrassment and fear, men continue to stand even when the seats at the front are vacant. Due to this, buses are often very crowded at the back. Men never take the front seat unless they feel really lucky and all the seats at the back are full. A few air conditioned buses do not have reserved seats (I travel in these as far as possible). You. In the back!***
I’d like to note here that public transport in Delhi is woefully inadequate due to corruption in the administration. The network of roads is also inadequate compared to India’s billion-strong population. A commute of as little as twenty kilometres can sometimes take an hour due to horrible congestion. India is ranked as one of the most corrupt nations in the world and many social activists are fighting to correct this. Dissatisfaction with public buses is not unique to men. If you remember, the victim of the recent gang-rape had to board a private bus with tinted windows after waiting for an hour for a public bus to come by. This ghastly incident could have been avoided…
 
***In Delhi metros, there is a coach reserved for women. This coach can remain empty but men cannot enter it. Apart from this, we are also constantly reminded (through announcements) to give our seats to ladies if they are standing. I would be willing to give my seat to an old woman or a pregnant lady. But young women? Healthy college girls?***
A Delhi metro train has 10-15 coaches. Out of this, one coach is reserved for women – who comprise approximately half the number of commuters. As a woman, I can tell you first hand that travelling in a crowded metro becomes extra scary for women. Anil, how would you like to have hands snaking down your backside and groping your breasts, while lewd comments are whispered in your ears? Eve-teasing is so endemic, that the administration (as an expression of defeat) resorted to crushing roughly half the commuters into just one ‘ladies carriage’.
A personal friend of mine was pushed off a running bus by a group of men when she told them off for teasing her. The entire left side of her body is still paralysed.
 
***There is more. I was recently standing in a very long queue to buy an interstate bus ticket. After waiting for more than an hour the queue had hardly moved. Why? A smaller queue had materialized next to our queue. A queue for women only. The tickets were being given to them first. A few women buy, they leave and then more women come, while the men wait. I got my ticket after 2 hours. It was 2am. I wanted to board the midnight bus.***
Separate queues for women were also suggested by the administration as a expression of defeat in countering eve-teasing. If it wasn't for some men, women wouldn't need them. Shouldn't the real MRA battle be against those men who eve-tease?

***If you try to make people understand that even men can be raped, they don’t believe it. It took me some time to convince my friends, all of whom are well-educated. Imagine how difficult it is going to be to make the entire country believe that this crime exists. In India, it is assumed that no girl likes sex whereas sex is all that men can think about.***
It is true that there is a lot of misinformation about male rape. I attribute this to the same male-chauvinistic mindset that feminists are fighting against. (“Women are weaker, they can be raped. Men are strongest, they can never be raped.”) After recent events, feminists and other social workers have been protesting to make the rape laws gender neutral. Recently, a bill to introduce sex-education in schools was vehemently opposed by conservative elements as being 'against Indian values'. Shouldn't the real MRA battle be against them?
 
***Most of the discotheques in India are openly sexist. The entry fee structure is usually something like this:
Ladies – FREE/negligible (Wow! I guess I never knew that about Delhi!)
Couples – 1000 Rs., since you are getting a MAN (rapist, demon, molester) with you
Men – 1500 Rs., or NO ENTRY
The justification? The same as it is in the west. Girls attract crowds. Girls will attract men and men will pay. Okay, so sexism is a business decision. But many discotheques don’t even allow men unless they have women with them. Recently, I saw a man trying to go alone inside a discotheque. He was denied entry. So, he went out and asked a random girl to accompany him to the discotheque. Now get this. He was still denied permission because they had seen him before without a girl.***
Well, I can’t speak first-hand for discotheques because nightclubs are not really my thing. However, it seems that the arbitrariness of bouncers in admitting people is not limited to any one corner of the world – it is a common complaint.
Why is it that girls attract more ‘crowds’ than boys? Is it because of misandry, or is it because of a mindset which  sees every girl as a ‘game’ to be ‘scored’? Is the extra attention always pleasant for the girls?
 
***Our Constitution is **** in written form. According to our Constitution, nobody can be discriminated on the basis of gender. But, if you read the sections related to dowry, rape, other sexual offences, etc., you’ll see that our Constitution itself is hostilely  misandrist. In cases of adultery, only the man can be held guilty. There were efforts made to make this law gender-neutral. But take a look at the following article which provides 1. the justification for having such a biased law and 2. the reason why it was proposed to scrap the law (it’s not because it’s against men).***
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/consider-scrapping-adultery-from-indian-penal-code/1/163101.html
Of course, MRAs know what’s best for the Constitution. Too bad they were never consulted while it was being written. The rebuttal to Anil’s allegations against the constitution is too vast for the scope of this article.
 
***The “modesty of a woman” is a common phrase in our laws. It is not even clear what modesty of a woman really is but it roughly makes a woman’s body a treasure which every man wants to possess by force (Read Section 354 of the IPC for more information).***
The ‘modesty of a woman’ is more of a cross that women have to carry throughout their lives, than a benefit. The same phrase is used by many members of the vigilante moral police when they threaten to throw acid on women who wear jeans and talk on their cell-phones. Girls who lose their virginity (even due to rape) have the hardest time finding husbands.
 
***In general, men are considered evil everywhere in the country. Videotapes of women beating men are showcased here and any acts of violence against women (even if its self-defense) are condemned. You already have a lot of videos on your blog. 
When the Delhi girl was raped, newspapers, magazine articles and Facebook walls were flooded with brutal remarks calling for barbaric punishments like public beating and castration. The physical violence involved in the crime against the man was completely overlooked. Nobody was concerned about the girl’s friend (probably her boyfriend). He saw his friend getting raped and he was beaten up by the men, too.***
The physical violence to the man was completely overlooked!? What the hell are you talking about, Anil? The 28-year old software engineer who was engaged to Jyoti Singh Pandey, being the only non-accused living witness, is in demand from many newspapers and TV channels for interviews! He has already appeared in an interview for Zee News. The police sued Zee News because the interviewee made the police force look inefficient! – which it is.
Let us now look at the nature of injuries to Jyoti Pandey and her fiancée. The boy was hit on the head with an iron rod till he was unconscious. Then he was tied to a seat in the bus. He also suffered a fractured leg from the scuffle. Jyoti was brutally raped by six men and had her intestines drawn out of her vagina with a rusty iron rod. Her head, abdomen and genitals were badly injured. Both victims were dumped naked on the street in mid-winter. The seasoned doctors in the hospital, on seeing Jyoti’s condition claimed that they had never seen anyone so brutishly assaulted. They gave her the highest possible dose of painkillers, but she was still awake with agony. Her intestines had to be removed completely. She died after two weeks. And the MRAs grudge the fact that the girl was given priority in the matter.
Moreover, as a matter of fact, the boy did not see his girlfriend getting raped. He was unconscious. Of course, that doesn’t make it any better. I’m just pointing out a factual error in MRA research.
I have a challenge for you Indian MRAs. I dare you to ask Jyoti’s boyfriend if he thinks he was given a worse deal that Jyoti herself. That should help in bringing AVFM outside the realm of online misinformation and give it a dose of reality.
 
***During the protests, a policeman was killed while performing his duty. There was hardly any news about him. Indians are concerned only when a woman is the victim and the concern is doubled if the woman is raped.***
There was plenty of news about the dead constable Subhash Tomar – but only if you read the newspapers. The crowd management strategy of the Delhi Police was slammed left, right and centre. Interestingly, the accused in this incident claimed that Tomar lay dead on the street for an hour before his colleagues carried him away. This is a case of gross police inefficiency which affects both men and women, not directed misandry.
 
***A film actor (Shiney Ahuja) was convicted of rape a few years back. The whole country went berserk. Later, the victim changed her statement and said that she was not raped. This time nobody cared. Many people are still not aware of this development.***
Shiney Ahuja is a little-heard-of Indian actor whose fifteen-year old domestic-help claimed that he had been raping her. (The accusation was made after the girl attained adulthood.) And the whole nation did not go berserk. If I remember correctly, there were only one or two scattered newspaper articles. Why was a minor girl working in has house as a servant in the first place? MRAs haven’t heard of the Child Labour Act, have they?
Clear evidence of rape was found, and Shiney Ahuja confessed to the crime. And yes, the victim did change her statement later. We don’t know why… Was she lying in the first place? Maybe. Did she agree to keep quiet in return for monetary compensation? Was she blackmailed and harassed by a male-chauvinistic police force like many other rape victims are? Probably. Some even say that this was a publicity stunt to help Shiney’s sinking career make its way back into the glossies.
It would help to keep in mind the disparity between the two parties – Shiney is an educated,  reasonably well-to-do actor while the help was an uneducated, poor fifteen-year old girl. Anil, if you want to prove that women are capable of lying about being raped, this was a very poor example. Any average well-informed citizen, male or female, could argue better.
 
***Yes, in our country some women are raped, tortured and subjected to humiliation. So are men. But we do not recognize those crimes against men. There are no laws to save or help men, only laws to attack them and keep them down. You can see the results of that on our streets in recent days. But I was already aware. I saw the real problem with my own eyes; in a queue to buy a bus ticket, and in the eyes of old men, forced out of their seats to stand on a bus so that smug, entitled college girls can have a comfortable spot to rest their *****. I seem to remember hearing of similar rules, in one of the darker chapters in the history of America.***
How very poetically tragic, Anil… keep up the good work!
cameronr cameronr
18-21, F
2 Responses Jan 16, 2013

Great commentary !!! Thank you for adding parity to the situation.

Thank you, Dente... its a bit long, but I didn't want to miss out on anything. Anil's whining about buses and metros and queues and the Shiney Ahuja case is just.... nauseating and also a gross misstatement of facts. The ugliest part is when he complains that Jyoti Pandey's boyfriend is a victim of misandry. I'm going to write another article soon, about a YouTube video on an Indian MRA.
I read the article you linked to - very succinctly stated.

I would love for you to post more about the "eve teasing" this is something I know very little about.

Oh, absolutely! I have many, many newspaper cuttings too. Eve-teasers are getting bolder and bolder - many of them are organized criminals. The time is long gone when a good thwack from Aunty's umbrella could shame them.

- I have a friend who was pushed off a running bus after she told off a bunch of men for teasing her. The left side of her body is still paralyzed.
- A few months back, a 19-year old girl from Kerala called Liji was run over by eve teasers on motorcycles.
- I think, in 2008 and 2009, two women were ******** naked in the streets by eve-teasers after they came out of a New Year Party.
- A few months ago, a girl from Assam was ******** naked on the street by a mob of about fifteen men.
- A few years ago, a rickshaw driver was shot dead by eve-teasers after he spoke up for a woman who was being molested.

I will show you the original newspaper articles with links as soon as I can. there are many more incidents. Apart from these major incidents, there are many, many minor incidents - butt pinching, lewd comments, groping and other violating behavior. These are never reported.
Eve teasing is rape in infancy. It is very, very humiliating and degrading. Perhaps I should write an article about it.

Please please do write a article. WHY do they use the term "eve"... I understand it is sexual harassment at its worst...but, not sure I understand why or how "eve" comes into it.

Oh, that's my mistake. The report of a study conducted by the Gender Study Group of the University of Delhi says, "In India, sexual harassment has been disguised, made to appear harmless by its name; the term `teasing' conveys the apparently harmless intention of the act, successfully veiling the pernicious violence lying behind the mask." Therefore, someone making advances at you in a crowded place is not `fun'. I admit the correction. I'll call it sexual harassment in future.

Eve-teasing isn't new, albeit I think we don't know/use the name in western society for it.
I don't know if you can second this, but the minor forms of it (butt-pinching, pulling up a girl's skirt, groping, frotting ("accidental" repeated touching in crowded places) and pretty much all the way too second degree sexual assault) are totally common where I'm from (western europe) at least.
When you go out to a club or bar or other place where drunk strangers are, you already know it will happen at least once... only when you're a girl (the prettier you are or the more revealing your clothes are, the more it happens) of course

It's not considered eve-teasing or minor sexual assault though, when a guy randomly feels up your skirt or dress, you're not supposed to complain about it.
"Don't be so overly sensitive" is how people react (both men and women).
Personally when someone tells me, I show support, it's very taboo to call it sexual assault though... the law might think it is, but society doesn't really think it's a crime as it seems.

I had never heard of it... as "eve teasing"

The behavior isn't new, and it seems very extreme in India, the term harassment really doesn't seem to cover what is actually being done... Pushing someone from a bus, is vicious.

Scar - 'minor' forms of it are so rampant that we've learnt to ignore it. Once, I was sitting in a bus. A man came and stood beside me --- and started rubbing his penis against my shoulder. I endured it for a few minutes, firstly because I wasn't sure if it was for real, and secondly, I didn't exactly know what to do. Thankfully, there was a guy about my own age sitting beside me. He understood my discomfort and offered to change places with me. That was very nice of him. So now, I sat in the window seat while he sat in the aisle seat. The creep went away since he obviously has no interest in guys.
I hate it when people say 'Don't be overly sensitive'!

Dente - I just finished writing the other article on Indian MRAs.

I hear you cameron, if I have to tell all these instances, I'd better create my own group for it, it just happens so often that a lot of people indeed consider it normal by now.
Thinking about these things even makes my head hurt, it's just a difficult subject with all these powers playing a part in the world.
Maybe I should make a new storytopic about it in this group? I don't know if that would be appreciated.

Needless to say these things are way worse in India of course, I don't understand why of all places they let someone from INDIA speak about "misandry", India is one of the most misogynistic countries on Earth!
Misogyny and misandry (if it even is a real thing) can exist side by side I think, but come on... India?!

7 More Responses

"doesn’t it sound a wee bit as if…. Attention ladies! The bar for rape-tolerance has been lowered! While the AVFM article ‘Challenging the Etiology of Rape’ claimed that it was okay to rape scantily-clad women who got drunk and flirted with men in nightclubs, our newest star Anil Sharma believes that rape is more understandable if girls who roam around unguarded in isolated places get raped! What are these MRAs going to ask for next? Four male witnesses, perhaps?"


OMG loving you so much for this. I was just saying something very similar the other day on
http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Was-Raped/148221#comment_9240862

The Abel 2001 study showed most reports indicate that on a global level women with lower socioeconomic status are more often victims of rape.

I gues since universally women living in poverty are more likely to be subject to rape, women should protect themselves by not being so stupid as be poor.


Date rape is a "non-domestic rape committed by someone who knows the victim." This constitutes the vast majority of reported rapes, 80-85% percent of all reported rapes.

College and University campuses are prime locations for date rape, A college survey conducted by the United States' National Victim Center reported that "one in four college women have been raped or experienced attempted rape." This report indicates that young women are at considerable risk of becoming a victim of date rape while in college.

I guess women should stop attending college as well.


57% of rapes occur on dates.
I guess women should not go on dates.

Over half of all rapes and sexual assaults take place in the victim’s home or within one mile of home: 40 percent occur in the home, 20 percent occur in a friend, relative, or neighbor’s home (while 1 in 12 occur in a parking garage.)

I guess women should be homeless and stay out of the homes of neighbours and relatives.