Male-dominated Culture - Response To " Hijab Is My Feminism" By Sapphiresun

You completely missed the actual joke in societal expectations.

No I didn't.

No, you did. The entire point isn't someone being in a bikini, it's that women in the west are expected to be constant objects of beauty where a woman's sexual appeal is her main asset of any worth.

I agree with Sapphire, you missed the point. The joke is about people's perception.

My dear friends, no need to explain, I got it. But I disagree with what is implied, namely that women merely follow social expectations everywhere. Being able to show some flesh is just some basic human right. Salutations.

Yup, just like covering up said flesh, if it's a personal choice, is a basic human right ;)

Big if.

I couldn't have put it better myself, EarthlingWise -:)

Women do follow social expectations everywhere though, and for that fact so do men.

Well, I don't wear a bikini just because it's a "social expectation", I wear them because I genuinely feel comfortable in them.

Arguably you feel comfortable in it because that is what you have grown up seeing and be use to. If you took a man and a woman from Coney Island beach in 1905, took them to the present, and put them in a bikini and swim trunks, they'd probably feel a level of nakedness we can't even comprehend anymore.

Yes, that's true, it only shows fear is a feeling easy to instill ; but we really have no reason to feel ashamed of our bodies.

Nobody should feel ashamed of the body they inhabit, at the same time though our bodies shouldn't be a marketing tool where we're pressured to essentially publicly sell off our sexuality to whoever wants to look. Case in point
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110810133015.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120515131719.htm

Well said, Sapphire.

And thanks for the links!

I know this. I just thought it was funny yet thought-provoking.

In western culture women choose to.dress the way that they do. Then complain that men force them to dress that way.

Maybe Western women not forced at gunpoint to dress that way, but the subtle message sent by the media and entertainement industry is that a woman's appeal is her sexuality. Read SapphireSun's story about it; she hit the nail on the head.

The most attractive women I have ever seen were the ones that lived for themselves and had a mind of their own and ignored the media. The problem is not what the media says. Its that people are so stupid that they can be that's easily controlled. No ones says that we have to do what the media tells us.

No, but there again, the message is being hammered at us on every poster in the street, every advert on TV, every magazine. Unless you live in a cave it's difficult not to be affected by it in some way.

Who is the problem? Our idols or the people that made them idols. Why do we continue to pretend that peoples stupidity is someone else's fault. When someone gets pulled over for a DUE do we write the bartender the ticket or jack daniels. When are we going to start holding people accountable for their actions? If a woman dresses like a **** then that was her choice and hers alone. No one or nothing is responsible for her decisions. And she has no right to expect people to not judge her by hownshe presents herself in public. (And no feminists. That doesn't give someone the right to rape her.)
If feminism can only be held responsible for one crime it would be this. Just because a person has internal reproductive organs doesn't give that person immunity from the responsibility for their own actions. Feminism's idea of equality is to turn women into children. As children are incapable of being held responsible for their actions because they are children. As a MRA I hold women to a higher standard than that. I hold women to the same standard that society holds men. That of being an adult. A adult accepts responsibility for what they do. And if they don't society does it for them. Between feminism and the MRM the MRM is the only group that wants women and men to be equal.

Your version of feminism may differ from mine, but mine is not about dressing like *****.

"The most attractive women I have ever seen were the ones that lived for themselves and had a mind of their own and ignored the media" - totally agree with this KR. Media is tough on men and women but especially on kids. I think they are under such pressure to conform to certain standards, etc. I love it when people walk their own path and buck trends; they are usually the most interesting people to talk to as well.

" they are usually the most interesting people to talk to as well." most definitely.
I think that the media is harder on kids. Between the boys and the girls I think its harder on girls. I maybe wrong about that as it is my opinion and not based on studies or evidence.