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Butches Who Doubt You're Gay(ness)

Hi Ladies,

I was just curious if any of you have ever encountered what I will call "butch or boi disbelief" in your queerness, because you looked too straight. It's one thing for straight men and women to not believe that I am gay, but when I have people in my own queer community describe me as NOT GAY enough because I lean toward appearing heteronormative on the outside, I feel very annoyed an alienated. I am also a femme for femme. I don't think everyone should perscrive to this type of relationship, but just because I find other femmes attractive doesn't mean that I hate butches or do not appreicate everything they have contributed to the gay community. Also, just because I like other femmes does it mean that I am a sell out to the Patriarchy. I often see cute boi dykes with other boi dykes, and I don't discriminate.

msriot msriot 26-30, F 21 Responses Apr 12, 2010

Your Response


Dear Miss, I am MBA working in US ,Indian by birth,perfact looks,gentle,honest cool fun loving partially gay tendency,looking for a lesbian girl for MOC, i have seen your request .looking forward to hear from
saurabh11000 at mail dot com

You like what you like and it's no one's business....that's my opinion. I'm totally femme and if a woman doesn't look like a woman anymore I just can't feel atraction. Doesn't mean you're not "gay enough" (actually we're more gay in my opinion lol) it's your preference. I have nothing against butch girls but it can be too much for me. My gf is the "sporty type" but she has long hair and very feminine features...that's were I draw the line.

"I am also a femme for femme. I don't think everyone should perscrive to this type of relationship, but just because I find other femmes attractive doesn't mean that I hate butches or do not appreicate everything they have contributed to the gay community." I know how you feel on this part.

That's not fair, and to be gay yet discriminate against specific gays is totally hypocritical and makes absolutely no sense. I'm a girl that likes girls. So how is it so strange that I look like a girl and prefer girls who look like girls. I don't discriminate against women who like women who look like men or m2f transgender who are attracted to females. My reason for liking girls isn't because I feel like more of a male. I like girls for exactly what they are. Feminine. I am a female who feels like a female who happens to be attracted to females. If there's ever such a thing as a "real" lesbian, which by definition means a female who is attracted to females, then it would be a feminine girl who's attracted to other feminine girls. But I'm not narrow minded, so I know there's no black and white or right and wrong when it comes to anyone's sexuality.

most people have a "type"they are attracted to! you dont need to justify your choices! dressing or acting yourself is brilliant,honest and shows strength! dont listen to the critics! you will attract the right girl for you because you are genuine and not fake,and that is a quality worth gold!

Yes! I fall into this category as well! And have often faced discrimination in one form or the other because I appear straight. Butches saying I'm so girly so they should act like I am less than, or even having to prove my "gayness"..... It's extremely annoying to be a "minority" within a "minority"

I'm a femme as well, although i do enjoy tomboyish activities and all of my friends are straight males. I'm not out yet, and 99% of people assume I'm straight. Even my best friend doesn't beieve im a lesbian. He thinks I'm joking! Oh well, someday ill come out and who cares if peopke believe me or not?

i think label is not so important..just be yourself and be happy with whom who live with!!! Let's spread our breed hahahaha

From my opinion, it does make femmes hard to differentiate from straight or bisexual women. But, be proud because femmes are equally desirable among lesbians.<br />
For me, if I ever came across a femme, I will have my doubts too. Not to discriminate, but because femmes are quite hard to identify. For me, it is more because of my insecurities. When I see a girly girl who defines as lesbian (especially if I like her), I would have my doubts. It is my way to keep me from being hurt. It's like defense mechanism I guess. I have had crush on straight girls, so I think I tend to associate it with that experience. I hope you can understand my explanation. The structure is awful but, I tried, haha.<br />
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I have never visited gay bars - I guess I'm not too social - but, I think I wouldn't like it either if that happened to me. Actually, LGBT people need to talk about this thing rather than brush it off. For me, it's good to talk about your thoughts rather than set it aside. I believe the first step to create a better anything is to talk about it together.<br />
In the end, each of us is just a human being wanting to be accepted just the way we are.

I feel a bit of an outsider here as I am a m2f T. but felt the need to respond to a part of your post regarding "talking" about it.
I haven't spent huge amounts of time in gay bars either but on the occasions that I have, I've had some confusing interactions with others. At a predominantly male gay bar I was approached and and asked why I dressed as a women, then without waiting for an answer was told that if I wanted to pick up a gay man that I should loose the cloths and just be the gay man I want to be. All without even getting to know who I was or anything about my life's story.
At another place I was told by a butch that I wasn't welcome there trying to pick up the Femms, all because I was talking to one about where we find clothes, we were about the same height and build, I'm 5'13" and 140.
Lastly I was told at a leather bar that I was in the wrong place and should take my "sissy ***" someplace else. None of these people caused me to leave and after interacting with others found that I was indeed welcome, and should disregard what I had been told, At the leather bar It was the manager who invited me to the bar and made a show of buying me a drink, Telling me and all those around us that I was welcome there and to come back soon.

I guess my point is our own communetity has a ways to go in understanding each other. Opening up to each other on a personal bases and sharing can't hurt.

Live life to suit your happiness.

I get sick and tired of people telling me that I don't look lesbian because I am Femme. My wife is Butch and she says people are stupid to not see it, but it still hurts to walk by another obvious lesbian and have her blow me off because I don't look like some preconceived notion of a lesbian. Oddly, most gay guys seem to pick it right up. I find it very odd.

I get sick and tired of people telling me that I don't look lesbian because I am Femme. My wife is Butch and she says people are stupid to not see it, but it still hurts to walk by another obvious lesbian and have her blow me off because I don't look like some preconceived notion of a lesbian. Oddly, most gay guys seem to pick it right up. I find it very odd.

sayyy what? okay this is like the second post in the experience that i've read about people giving femmes grief. What?!? I dont dabble in the community. So i really don tknow, and even if i did encouter that. I would simple class that persons intelligence, and social common sense are sub par. but thats ME being rude, ( i guess). I think its SILLY to think that femme/Femme is selling out to "patriarchy" it would make more sense to say that over masculining yourself is "selling out". because you are then taking on TRADITIONAL TRAITS ESTABLISHED BY MALE AUTHORITIES. (sorry to go all soap box FEMMEnist on y'all). being femme/ femme oriented is more HOMO (same) than Hetero because it doesnt at all mimic heteronormative relationships ( visually). <br />
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Sorry, anyway that was doofus. Forget about those people. be yourself. let them be themselves ( dunces) and live your life. They had to be jealous or label zealots or something. cause thats just dumb. <br />
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Side note im from L.A. Ca, and femmes want for nothing out here when it comes to being a lipstick lez, from what i see or hear its the butches that have a hard time. Other areas stick the relationship dynamic of our gay herstory. but thats a whole other experience to write about.

labels labels labels..... be it in straight or gay community no difference. <br />
i dont determine mine or others sexuality by appearance the obvious appearance is obvious no need to questions. the one who keep it in the mystery, well if you curious enough why dont just ask (how? depends on your creativity)<br />
as for me, i dress as i like, i dont care what people say, sometimes i appear to be femme with heels (i hv a long hair) sometimes (mostly lazy day) i just wear jeans and t-shirt and flip-flops so hell with what others think. :) <br />
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but i wonder which category i fall into LOL

I completely understand! I am very femme with a hint of "I'll kick your a$$ in these 4 inch heels." I've AlWAYS gotten the whole 'you are not gay enough.' I was even on a rugby team in college, and the team captain (who was also dating my first girlfriend!) was constantly telling me there was no way I was gay. Just because I wore heels to class and payed attention to fashion week, in between tackling chicks and pride events. What?<br />
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The thing that really confuses me is that chicks will tell me I'm not gay enough, but I don't care. (I was the only one in my community who kept my hair long and my own style when coming out in high school.) So then they try to get me to prove it with them, and I tell them off. Then they think that my since of self is hot or something and start pursuing me. What's that all about? (And I'm talking dozens of times, not just once or twice)<br />
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Anyone else get this?

Yeah, but sometimes I have wondered about the motives, too. I was at a party (pretty much all LGBT) and this one very butch was telling me how I didn't look lez and all but told me that I had to go to bed with her to "prove" i was a lesbian... HAH... then my wife came up and I blew the butch off with a very passionate kiss to my wife. What a creep she had been.

I can relate. It is ignorant for gay/ lesbian community to give a label to a femme lesbian or a macho looking gay male who all look straight. They hate to be labeled and branded yet they do the same

I've had this happen to me as well because I am femme and look hetero BUT I like it because the bois/tomgirls/butches/dykes are mostly (not always anymore but old school ones) are attracted to the femmes who look straight. <br />
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I am mostly attracted to butch but am not opposed to being with a femme either.

I haven't had butches,or bois if you prefer that term question my dykeness because I'm so femme as much as that my primary partner is a transman & we appear to be a het couple.<br />
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As for the concept that femmes are only supposed to be with butches. I have actually run into people so adamant regarding this that it's almost like another form of homophobia. I find it hard to fathom though. I'm an old hippie free love sort of gal. I love who I fall in love with. I have had mostly butches or transmen as partners but I also have been in quite successful relationships with other femmes.

I love a womam to look comfortable as/in whatever style etc she chooses.I was A real tomboy growing up but as I get older I really enjoy all aspects of being a woman.Still I feel most comfortable in my jeans but I take love+give love,I don't think im butch but attract other woman that to me appear more feminine but clothes off+we are both woman.

This is why...I don't dabble in the homosexual community any more than I need to. All these labels to describe WHAT KIND of homo you are...I had no idea all these descriptions and types existed...People who doubt you don't matter. That's their business and you shouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy your sexuality. :)

I totally relate to this. I too am femme and if you didn't know I was in a lesbian relationship there would be no obvious give-aways. My partner is also pretty femme in appearance and while I have no problem with butches and other bois I don't understand why we too have to buy into society's pigeonholes!