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Yes I Am Gay, and Yes I Am Saved

I wanted to compose my thoughts before rushing out and posting here, because claiming to be a gay Christian is a very touchy subject for some people. I'll try to keep it as short as I can.

I know what the Bible says about homosexuality. I know it's wrong, so does my fiance. It's an uncomfortable, hurtful, confusing and torturous position we're both in, because we are in love and will always be in love and never turn away from our homosexuality. It's just not going to happen. Am I prepared to pay the price for that? Absolutely. Because I can't help who I fall in love with anymore than the next person.

I don't think it's fair to claim that I can't be a homosexual and be saved. God made it eternally clear that there is no sin that can separate us from heaven except the rejection of Jesus Christ. All of us fall short of the glory of God. No one is good enough to enter heaven because of who they are and what they do. And all sin is sin in God's eyes, my homosexuality isn't any worse than your murdering/stealing ect.

Jesus died for my sins. He didn't die for everyone's sins except homosexuals, and to suggest that homosexuality is the one sin that will remain punishable is to deny God's power.

I'm not an informational convert. I didn't just agree to being saved and was saved, I've felt God and his presence, and know what it feels like to feel the Holy Spirit. That is my testimony. I have felt God, and that is the primary reason why I know He is real and alive. No one who is saved can explain that sudden rush of understanding, that feeling of total consciousness that God is there. It's like feeling God's personality.

And you know what? I've heard God say He loves me. You can call me crazy, but there was a time I was so emotionally destroyed that I prayed, "God, just once, tell me you love me."

And I heard Him tell me He loved me for a whole minute. I knew it was God, you want to know why? Because He always goes the extra mile for his children, and He knew I didn't need to hear it once, but a hundred times.

That's all.

Konrad Konrad 22-25, M 93 Responses May 6, 2009

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Ok its my turn. I am appalled at some of the reprehensible and incoherent statements I've seen here. What passes as Christianity is embarassing at best and is at worst heresy. First off Konrad, ignore this nonsense about spirits and visions and stick to true faith. As an old time reform, 5 point Calvinist I rebuke all pentacostal crap and it isnt welcome at my door. Konrad, if you are saved, then you are. I am a homo, though i don't live that life anymore. I know, not believe, im saved for several reasons. I have on many occasions have seen prayer answered which doesnt happen if you're out of fellowship with God. Another is i have fruit in my life which wouldnt happen if i were not walking in faith. I do not seek to sin, though I do at times. And when I do i know I have Jesus to go to for forgiveness. Konrad, i wish i vould speak to you in person since i think we would undestand each other. Dont listen to bizarre babble about tongues, I've seen it and it scared the crap out of me, nothing Godly about someone going bah bah for 15 minutes and drooling on themselves. I hope you still monitor this, id love to get a reply. I will keep you in prayer, Merry Christmas.

I will be praying for you.

Konrad, I BEG YOU, please listen and take great heed to what I am about to tell you. I beg of you, please take serious concern to what I am about to tell you.

You are a Believer in Jesus Christ (John chapter 3 verse 16; and Romans chapter 10 verses 10 and 9)! Okay. GREAT! Very good!!! Absolutely. This is the first step to Salvation/being Saved (from Hell and entering in the gates of the Kingdom Of Heaven).

But, please if God's Spirit ... Holy Spirit begins convicting you of Homosexuality. And you turn away from it, you put it down, you repent, you turn away from it. And God then gives you the Baptismal of Holy Spirit (you go to prophesying and speaking in tongues, or and having visions-in-dreams) I BEG OF YOU ........... please do not go back. Please do not go back to being Gay. If you do you will end up like me. You will end up like repro1 (though, he did not receive the full Baptismal He did turn away from the sin of por* at the convicting of Holy Spirit yet went back to por* and He continued on to the point that He grieved Holy Spirit, sadden Him by repetitive willful sinning, so bad that He left out and an evil spirit entered into repro1).

PLEASE YOU DON'T WANT TO END UP LIKE US!
And does God send evil spirits to persons? Even to Christians, Messianic Jews?
Yes!!!!!!! He did so with repro1 and I. Don't believe it???
Read 1 Samuel chapter 19 verse 9.

'And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul (who was a Believer as this man had received the Baptismal of Holy Spirit ... Read 1 Samuel chapter 10 verses 1, 9, and 10), as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.'

Am I trying to be judgmental towards you? No. For one is to remember the parable of the log and splinter. Matthew chapter 7 verses 1 through 5.

I hope and I do mean I hope that you are one of those meant for the Faith, and not for the Call. (Because many if not most of those receiving the Call are loosing the Call by having gone back into Carnal Living - Repetitive Willful Sinning). Those He created for the Faith are those whom He has guided and shaped their lives so they will be taken (Raptured). Those He created for the Call are those that are destined to receive the Baptismal of Holy Spirit (the prophesying and speaking in tongues/having visions) which is mentioned in Acts chapter 2 verses 17 through 18 and talked about in Romans chapter 9.

Konrad, you are a Believer (John 3:16, Romans 10:10 and 9). But, there is a difference between a Believer and a Follower. No one ever said to me, 'Tracy! Yes, you are a Believer of Jesus Christ. And that is wonderful. But you are not a Follower of Jesus Christ, because you don't DAILY align your life up with Exodus chapter 20 verses 1 through 17, Matthew chapter 22 verses 36 through 40, and take heed to Matthew chapter 5 verses 27 and 28. Tracy, if you do go to Following Jesus Christ and you receive the Baptismal of Holy Spirit which is accompanied/shown by prophesying and speaking in tongues you are NOT to turn back/go back into repetitive willful sinning, carnal living because if you do you will grieve Holy Spirit so bad that He will leave out and a demon will enter in. And YOU WILL end up being Diabolic Possessed, Tracy!' Konrad, NO ONE every sat me down and told me any of that.

It is my hope that you take into consideration what I've written to you. And those that have read/are reading my messages here ... I am not trying to judge or harp on Konrad (because atleast He does Believe in Jesus Christ and was even blessed by Him with His presence and has experienced that which the Holy Bible calls as the 'still small voice of God' found in 1 Kings chapter 19 verses 11 through 13). I just wish for Konrad to not end up like me, repro1, and countless others.

One other thing, Konrad please go to spiritlessons.com and read those stories as they are real. Particular that of Mary K. Baxter as when I had Holy Spirit He gave me the knowledge that her testimony was true. She really had placed her fingers through Jesus' holes in His hands. Also, began reading on Susan Davis and Sabrina Jann. These are truly divine prophetesses of the Lord God Most High! As I once worked side by side with these ladies (so to speak) in my calling. And boy did He give me a calling. I wish the absolute best for you, Konrad. And I hope you make it (Raptured)! I really do!!!! :-) I don't wish for you or anyone to go to Hell. For Hell is for eternity just as Heaven is. Konrad, here is there website Godhead blessed them with. http://end-times-prophecy.com/blog

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

2 More Responses

If anyone reading this story is a Christian or a Messianic Jewish then please read this person's story (repro1 - it was the sin of por*) as it could very well happen to you. Also, scroll down (through the comments) and read the comment written by tsthompson07 (lusting with they eyes, mind, and heart).

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-Afraid-I-Have-Lost-My-Salvation/1262906

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

yes it's hard to get some christians to understand us. Ask if they would start to throw stones in their own china shop.

That's really beautiful how God told you he loved you :)

Trying to justify your sinful lifestyle will not saved you from the reality of doom. When you get there, remember that you did it to yourself. No human being can just stop being homo/bi. Only Jesus can save you and deliver you from homosexuality.

Then why has no one been? There has been no successful attempt to overcome homosexuality, whether through prayer, or ex-gay therapy. It just hurts people. That's why I left religion. I got tired of people telling me how to live my life. I also finally found out the truth about God and his existence. I'm no longer living a life of misery and loneliness, and I'm glad.

Yes, there have been plenty of testimonials from ex gays who were delivered by JESUS. NOT "gay conversion" therapy. No one can "ungay" themselves. Only Jesus has that power. Now, as with any sinful lifestyle, it's always possible to choose to return to it after being delivered from it. I made that mistake, sadly and am now paying dearly for it. After having been washed by the blood of Jesus, I went back to wallowing in the mire of sin.

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

You are delusional if you think you can continue in sin and remain in God's grace. He is not mocked and you'll surely reap all that you've sewn to your flesh.

You know the old saying, "he that protest the loudest has something to hide", I really think it applies to you

I do not care what you think human. God has made it clear in His word. He will not be mocked. You cannot continue in sin and enter heaven, fool.

I want you to understand that this is not an attack on you. It is merely the truth. We cannot deliver ourselves from the deception and power that sin holds on us. Therapy certainly cannot do it. Only Jesus can do this. You did not choose to be gay. It is evil spirits. I know from personal experience that they can make you FEEL that you ARE a certain way or HAVE TO DO certain things. You need deliverance. Now, you are free to accept or reject what I've said. Just wanting to help.You

You hypocrite it is an attack on them,
http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

You are the one who is a hypocrite. You're a shining example of hypocrisy. You try to claim Christ and play righteous, but you sweep sin under the rug because it's your cherished sin. You're only fooling yourself.

Ok. Why don't you ask yourself: What's so bad about it? Would God really condemn you for loving someone? I really find it hard to believe that God would condemn people who cannot change their sexuality. I'm finding the bible hard to believe, since it was written by 2nd and 3rd hand accounts of people with their own faith and beliefs. I.e. Paul's letters to the Romans which included women not speaking in church, and husbands being authority of their wives. Think about it. Why is the bible so contradictory? It says the Earth is a circle, when it's actually a sphere. It says the Earth is 6,000 years old, when science had proved otherwise. There are so many contradictions in the bible, that I found it hard to believe any of it. I think it's good to study other religions and see what they have to say on this matter. But, do whatever makes you happy. Just don't expect everyone else to do the same.

You have a problem with the bible or anything God has said is sin, take it up with Him. According to those of us who believe, this is His show and He makes the rules. He really doesn't care whether we agree with what He does or not. He is God and you are the human. If you no longer believe in God, then why bother asking questions about Him or His word? Because you still care. Those who claim to be separate from all religion spend so much time obsessing over it. Seriously. "Do whatever makes you happy. Just don't expect everyone else to do the same". Take your advice as well

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

Some people believe otherwise.

Also, like I said before, the bible was written by 2nd and 3rd hand accounts, of people with their own religions. So, who even knows what God really said, let alone if he's real or not?

Actually this is one of the best posts you have written.

I'm srry, but I think that's stupid. Why wouldn't Jesus work through ex-gay therapy to help heal homosexuality? Why through prayer? And isn't prayer a part of ex-gay therapy anyway? It makes no sense. Therefore, I believe there are no ex-gays. I think it's just a term people use to try to convince others that they've changed, when their same-sex attractions will always remain. Even if people can come out of their sexuality, it's probably very rare. People's sexual orientations change naturally, not through human willpower.

Though I did hear of a guy who was homosexual @ a church and fell to the floor shaking, speaking in a voice that was not of his own, and when he got up, he was delivered from it. He now has a gf. Idk how real that is though.

Once again, so-called "ex-gay" therapy can never deliver one from sin or homosexuality. We cannot save ourselves from ANY sin. Only Jesus can deliver us from demonic oppression, possession, and delusion. It is spiritual deliverance. All "conversion" therapy can do is try to convince you to stop having gay feelings. This will never work as you still have the spirit of homosexuality in you. This would be no different from someone trying to convince me to stop thinking I have cancer and this will make it go away even when I ACTUALLY still have cancer! Only Jesus can deliver us ALL from the bondage of sin, whether It's homosexuality or anything else.

Everything I have said is in all due respect. "Though I did hear of a guy who was homosexual @ a church and fell to the floor shaking, speaking in a voice that was not of his own, and when he got up, he was delivered from it. He now has a gf. Idk how real that is though" In the end, what you choose to believe is up to you. No one can force you. I wish you the best :)

Sorry for any typos. This site doesn't seem to like my phone anymore.

It just seems pretty odd to me, that someone is demon possessed, just bc they have same-sex attractions. Ex-gay therapies are meant to help people come out of homosexuality, not convince them that their feelings are gone, that's an absurd statement. If Jesus wanted to help heal anyone from homosexuality, he'd do it any way possible. After all nothing is impossible with God, right? Do you think prayer is going to change the way you feel? People have prayed before about it, including myself, and their prayers were never answered. I wish you the best as well. I hope you have a happy life:)

No, you do not understand the therapy at all. The whole point of the "conversion" therapy is to try to convince gays that their feelings are abnormal, and need to be converted to straight or at the very least "turn off" their gay desires.

So you admit it's impossible then to come out of homosexuality? I was reading an article just earlier about some homosexual guy who has been practicing sexual abstinence for 15 years, but still has same-sex attractions. You can't change your sexual orientation, just your actions. I think these people that claim to be "ex-gays" aren't really. I think they just gave up acting upon their feelings. An "ex-gay" is someone who is no longer gay. I don't believe anyone actually is.

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

"SSo you admit it's impossible then to come out of homosexuality?" Now, you are deliberately trying to twist my words as if you don't understand what is being said. I clearly said ONLY JESUS can deliver one from all sin which is a spiritual problem, including homosexual desires. All the so-called "therapy" really has to offer is humans trying to get other humans to change their homosexual desires as if it were merely physical issue when in reality it is a demonic spirit causing homosexuals to feel the way they are. Human therapy can never deliver a homosexual from their spiritual bondage of homosexualitHu

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

Annoying typos.

Ok. I understand what you're saying. I did not deliberately twist your words. No one can change their sexual orientations, only how they act upon them. Demonic spirit? Really? Demons make you do evil things. Homosexuality isn't evil, it is just a sin. Fornicators will also not inherit the kingdom of God, and adulterers. Do you think they're evil as well? I think you're overreacting. I find it weird when people say stuff like that.

Sin IS EVIL! What about this do you NOT UNDERSTAND?! SIN WILL SEPARATE YOU FROM GOD FOREVER! Wake up before it is too late, dreamer! If you actually took the time to read my story on here you would see that ALL SIN LEADS TO DEATH (Permanent separation from God) and not just homosexuality. Wake up and stop making excuses! Excuses will not save you on that day, dreamer! Wake

ALL SIN is EVIL and will get you killed (permanent spiritual separation from God in the lake of fire). All the sin you mentioned will separate you from Him just as well as homosexuality will! There is sin unto death. Wake up and repent of your rebellion or you will join us lost souls who had more than enough chances to repent but rejected Him. The ball is in your court. I will not waste any more time here. You know the truth. What you do with it is on you.

When you die in your rebellion, don't cry and say no one warned you. You were warned plenty of times as I was but I stupidly refused to listen and kept making excuses. DO NOT JOIN US IN THE PIT!

Look stupid, if you don't like homosexuality you shouldn't be on a gay page. Unless you are trying to find a date.

Excuse me, but I'm not making excuses, bc I currently, decided not to act on my feelings, as a homosexual. Also, you say sin will separate us from God? Well then I guess we are all separated from God, bc we all sin. Or do you think we're all perfect? Get real. We are all sinners in need of God's grace and forgiveness. Do you think that once we accept Jesus into our lives, that we no longer sin, and are perfect? I'm srry, but it seems like you're the one who's dreaming. We all stumble, and when we do, we need to repent. Does that mean we won't ever sin again? No. It means that we need to acknowledge that we've sinned. Just bc people struggle with all sorts of sins, does not make them evil. "DO NOT JOIN US IN TH PIT!" Are you admitting that you think you may go to hell, just bc you slipped up? We all do. God knows we're not perfect. That doesn't mean he considers us evil, bc we all sin. Idk what church you go to, but you have a different opinion of things, and what is evil. You seem to think all sin is evil, and will separate us from God, when, like I said, no one's perfect.

We all need to repent for our sins. And lucky for us, God is forgiving. Yes, that does not give us license to sin, but we will all sin. In the past, present, and future. God will always forgive us, but he wants us to acknowledge that we've sinned, and ask him for forgiveness. Again, that does not mean we won't sin again, bc we all do, and no one is perfect. I also seen that you refer to homosexuality as a "lifestyle". What is your opinion of what homosexuality is? Bc when most people call it a "lifestyle" they think it refers to having sex with multiple people. I'm srry. But when I was an active homosexual, I was looking for someone to love, and who would love me. The same as a heterosexual would. So do not say that we all lived a "lifestyle", Bc not all of us did. We just lived in sin.

Living in sin is a lifestyle. Just as being in Christ and continuing in righteousness is a lifestyle. I am not going to argue with you about God "always forgiving" because this gigantic misunderstanding comes from ignorance that can only be cured by knowing and understanding His word. I have said all I will on this.

Ok. But even though we live in righteousness through God, WE STILL SIN. What part of that do you not get? It seems like you think just bc we are saved, we are made perfect human beings. I'm srry, but we will never be until we are made new by God, when we go to heaven. "I am not going to argue with you about God "always forgiving" because this gigantic misunderstanding comes from ignorance that can only be cured by knowing and understanding His word." Um. It's not ignorance. It does seem like you don't want to hear anything I have to say, bc most of the time, you want to end the conversation. Look, Idk what kind of interpretation you take from the Bible, but I do know that everyone sins, even Christians. The difference is, is that we, as Christians, know what we're doing is wrong, and have to continuously ask for forgiveness. I can see where you might be going by saying that Jesus might not always forgive, if you don't confess your sins to him, and repent, that makes sense, if that's what you're trying to say. But if you're saying that after we accept Jesus into our lives, we no longer in, you are sadly mistaken. Everyone sins, whether you're a believer or non-believer.

*We no longer sin,

"Ok. But even though we live in righteousness through God, WE STILL SIN. What part of that do you not get? It seems like you think just bc we are saved, we are made perfect human beings. I'm srry, but we will never be until we are made new by God, when we go to heaven" I already said I was done. I have thoroughly explained myself. Your lack of understanding isn't my problem. Think whatever you like and put whatever meaning you want into what I've said.

I am not adding to your words and I did not misunderstand what you said. You think sin will separate us from God. DELIBERATE sin will, but not unintentional sin, unless we choose not to repent for it. Idk why you're getting so angry, and choose not to hear what other people think, besides your own thoughts. Your god must be unforgiving, bc that's what you seem to be implying. That can also come from dwelling on stuff. I believe Jesus's saying is "Repent, and you will be forgiven". Though the bible says the only unforgiveable sin is "rejecting Jesus Christ". You shouldn't live your life, thinking that you will do something that God will never forgive you for. Unless you are constantly rejecting him, or are unrepentant.

I think this also comes from the bible being 2nd and 3rd hand accounts from people with their own religions. Did you know that the part in the bible that God supposably said in Leviticus about people not practicing sorcery, was added in there by a king? Or that the bible seems to contradict itself on a lot of things? Yes, I do believe God is real, and he's with me everyday of my life, but I do not believe the bible is all there is to him. I mean, who really knows what God thinks anyway?

Your ignorance must be bliss. Keep rambling.

Interesting, you must have changed your mind because this is not what you told me!

What did I tell you?

I meant for that post to go to AaronForever91. Sorry for any confusion.

My mind has changed on this subject, since that last post. Why don't you look @ the date, and not just the response? Ty:)

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Gay-Christian/3634746#comment_11484678
Really you need to go read that page, it was written just for you

43 More Responses

"God made it eternally clear that there is no sin that can separate us from heaven except the rejection of Jesus Christ." And Christ made it clear that accepting Him means obeying Divine Law and that includes obeying the ones He gave authority to. What you are suggesting - to justify your sinful lifestyle which will indeed lead you and your partner to hell if unrepented - is that anyone can sin as much as he wants so long as he claims to believe and accept the Lord as his Saviour. That is mocking God. And no, salvation is not the price of that. 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1 contain a list of sins that if unrepented will bar you from receiving life eternal.

Yes you are right, we can NEVER justify our sins and then expect to make it to heaven in that condition, if that was the case his dying would be in vain, and everybody could stay in their sin and go to hell. You need to be delivered from thatt spirit. This is the ONLY problem I have with gay people, you all think your special when it comes to God. But ALL must come out of their sins! All that includes you too, another scripture say that to him to knkow to do right and wont do it that is sin and he will be whooped with many stripes! Make your mind up! Either you will denounce that spirit and serve God purily or you will die in your sin if you dont REPENTand CHANGE! I love you my brother, but there is no justifying sin... for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is life eternal Romans 6:23. You need to be delivered, Yes God loves you, but not the SIN, reread Romans the first chapter ask God to take it away from you and He will, but He will not force us He gave man one of the most powerful things on the earth and that is CHOICE! Choose this day who you will serve- Joshua 24:14-15.

I think we have to do some soul searching here.<br />
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For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.<br />
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done. They are filled with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice. They are rife with envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, senseless, covenant-breakers, heartless, ruthless. Although they fully know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:26-32 NET)<br />
While it's true Jesus does have compassion on sinners like us (Jesus had compassion on prostitutes, murderers...) Having a Gay marriage still angers him. If you are saved by God, wouldn't you want to please him in all areas of your life?<br />
<br />
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Some of you once lived this way. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NET)<br />
Indeed, before we are saved, we were infinitely evil, but now with Christ, he gave us power over sin (sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals). He clearly wants us to get rid of it.

God does love you. and he always will, though you have accepted christ, it dosn't mean you can sin though. Just remeber what would Jesus do.

It would be a sin if I a gay person had a hetereosexual relationship to go against Gods nature I have been created to please the idols of church and church people.

The Bible doesnot condemn a Godly gay relationship. For goodness sake you cannot make a doctrine over a few sc<x>ripture which only condemn a same sex act that is condemned in idol worship.<br />
Most of the sc<x>riptures condemning homosexuality had to do with idol worship. The bible cannot have all information to help with modern society today. The traditional norms do not fit.<br />
<br />
Here are some questions.<br />
<br />
Why isnt hermaphrodites spoken in the bible and how would you fit the one flesh doctrine to those who are born with both sexes.<br />
<br />
If the old testament was written for sexual example why arent lesbians condemned as well.<br />
<br />
As one who has been a pentacostal minister and someone who is fanatical about doctrine I have honestly realised that the Bible does not condemn a holy same sex union. The Church in all reality is a same sex union as Christ will be married to men. With this in mind dont feel condemned for when you where created you were wonderfully made

Hey Pentalcostal Minister, You better get it right with your messed up mind and sin filled ideas to please your flesh, the bible says that God is angry with the WICKED everyday! Stop misinforming these lost souls on here, let me get it straight. Lesbians are punished, all are punished who remains in their sin! Fornicators, murderers, liars,doubters,witches,warlocks, thieves. All sinners! Stop trying to condone your sin, and COME out in the name of Jesus! Old or new testament God says homosexual practices are wrong! Accept it or not! He made man and woman to procreate the World get over it! Marriage is ordained by God for man and woman Gen 1:26-28. God is not sick or perverted. He is never going to change His word to fit you or I. But please don't lead these souls wrong, your going to be held accountable with blood on your hands, but I won't stand by and let you! If we remain in our sin we die and go to hell I don't care what sin it is... Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death, BUT the gift of God is everlasting life! Whoever on here that can see this turn to Jesus NOW! in a hurry! This world is going to end soon, and Jesus when he comes back is only coming back for a righteous and pure people! No flesh shall ENTER in. He will judge sin and all sinners will have their part in the lake of fire that burns with fire and brimstone! Revelation 21:8 Cant you see? Jesus is coming soon, and no unrighteousness will stand before him, yes he loves all man what He created, but He won't tolerate sin from nobody. REPENT for the kingdom of heaven is at hand! Accept Jesus into your hearts and believe with your mouth that He is the TRUE son of God Romans 10:9-10 and thou shalt be saved from this wicked generation! It breaks my heart everyday for the LGBT Community I love them as well, they are beautiful people but they got to come out of that lifestyle like everybody else! No we don't condemn them to hell, but I will not back down from God's Word for nobody I expect the same with my issues! The great Deception to them is that they are special, no! god is serious about SIN, and He will judge it! He is a God of love mercy, and compassion, but never forget He is also a God of judgement and executes righteousness on the earth, He is JUST , and no one can stand against His judgement! I love you whoever you are, but I won't stand by and let you mislead these precious souls! God loves and so do I!

Hey girl. You need to read all of scripture and not just the bits you like. As a woman you need to have your head covered and remian silent. Thats right. You have no authority over men period. So be quiet and let the men in your life do the talking!

God does condenm homosexual practices in Roman chapter one and leviticus 18:22! It is a spirit! I know it is, but anyone who wants to break out, I am here to tell you that you can!God can free you completely if you want Him to. What planet are you on? He is not talking about Idol worship pertaining to ungodly acts! He have spoken and made it plain, now either you will accept it and come subject or die in your sins and go to hell where the worm dieth not and their is eternal madness forever. The biggest devastation is that a person is forever seperated from God, no more prayers, or singing, or calling on Jesus name in hell, and if you do he cannot help you! God don't send people to hell, we send ourselves! Hell is real just like heaven is did you know that pentecostal minister? And those that know better have the harsher punishment in hell! No, nobody is born gay! Stop putting that LIE out there. It is not the same as being white or black. They change partners quickly, I cant go and change my color at all. It is a lifestyle choice! Weshall know the truth and it shall make us free john 6:32! That spirit enters in them, when they are raped, and sexually abused most likely by the same sex, as children. That is a tramatic act that they unsubconciously have to battle with all their life, but I have some good news, there is HOPE! If they turn to Jesus, he will forgive them, and continue to love them. But they to renounce that spirit! Like we all had to do, I don't care what sin it was, it had to be renounced! If you are gay looking at this and want to change, God has sent me to tell you that you can, Ask Jesus to come into your heart and life and change it, will He do it? Yes! Will it be easy? No, homosexuality, like drugs, is a power demon, but God is able. you have to want it though. Jesus loves you and so do I.

So, are you also saying asexuals are sinners? They do exist, you know.

1 More Response

Read Luke 17:34.

I truely think that everyone is children of God. And you are as well. God has created you in his image and therefore it is okay to be gay if you're that way bc that cannot be changed. <br />
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God bless :)

It is not okay to be gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And it can be changed, they have to want the change! Stop lying to these people, so they can continue in their ungodly pleasure of practicing Sin before a righteous God! Stop it!

More verbal nonsense from an ignorant woman. Ones sexuality cannot be changed just as you cannot be forced to become lesbian. Once again I will remind you of the New Testamants advice for women, to have their heads covered and to remain silent. You have no authority over men. Read your Bible woman and remain silent.

Oh I also want to know just when did you choose to be attracted to men and not to women, was it a choice ?

I´m agree with you God loves us ´cause He made us perfect

No we are not perfect, God is!

How people equate being gay to being a murderer, thief, ********* is beyond me. <br />
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They say that ignorance is bliss, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is willing to harbor that much hate in their is finding much bliss. You can agree or disagree with whatever you believe being gay entails, but hate only propagates the negativity that we experience on a daily basis. It is only with love for one another will we make strides towards a better future. Love is the answer! Hate does nothing!

Love don't mean ACCEPT sin from NOBODY!

How people equate being gay to being a murderer, thief, ********* is beyond me. <br />
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They say that ignorance is bliss, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is willing to harbor that much hate in their is finding much bliss. You can agree or disagree with whatever you believe being gay entails, but hate only propagates the negativity that we experience on a daily basis. It is only with love for one another will we make strides towards a better future. Love is the answer! Hate does nothing!

your story is great

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)<br />
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Although God would want that all be saved, He doesn't force anyone to spend eternity with Him. So, all must freely make the choice to seek after Him or reject Him.

so true

I am Christian (although not gay) and do not for one second look down upon those that are gay. EVERYBODY has their "thing" that they struggle with and at least yours involves LOVING another human being, you know? A few of mine, for example, are smoking cigarettes & swearing too much. Both, of which most certainly have nothing to do with love. What is most important is that we realize that we are saved by grace through our faith in Christ- THAT is what makes us Christian, NOT our works. Just do the best you can in all that you do and know that you're not alone. HUGS!!!

I hope this isn't dead, but I thought my 2 cents might inspire something. <br />
If people are going to sit and point fingers, that is ignorance. If people are going to accuse you of sinning and how you should choose or change your life, that is pride. If people are going to live by how they feel, people will suffer their consequences. Basics, Jesus came knowing he was going to be a sacrifice for the world to save us from our sins... That is love, knowing you are going to live a perfect life (kinda easy since HE IS)<br />
I am also assuming that you know all of this. Assuming that you have read or know enough of the Bible to know somewhat of what the Character of God is?! <br />
We have to trust in Jesus and what his life was about and what his life means to us. We should not be accusing each other of what is right and wrong, especially if it is written in black and white. We need to be uplifting each other! It says to "glorify the Lord in all things you do" So whenever you do something, inside and out, ask if you are glorifying the lord? What if Jesus decided that he felt like he didn't want to die for everyone's sin because he was more important and wanted to experience a good healthy life?! We would be screwed!!! But yet we still fight over what is right and what is wrong, we push the ten commandments away, but when in debate bring up the points that benefit us. <br />
You said something about "my homosexuality isn't any worse than you murdering/stealing, etc... I also agree, especially with people who sit there and talk down to others that say "Homosexuals will burn in hell!" because who are they? They are everything that homosexuals are to God! Beautiful creations... One thing that got me when I was reading a book called "The Pursuit of Holiness" by Jerry Bridges, is that he was explaining why we should strive to be Holy, Jesus said, those who love me will obey me... I love the Lord! and that is what really began to set me free from my sinful habits... Am I perfect, come on... But I hope this helps... We should be striving to Love Jesus... Pick up our cross... Whatever that means to you! :)

1 Tim 4 is my goto pro-marriage equality verse. I have been using it because it fits this situation perfectly.<br />
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- first of all it is prophetic 'later days', it didn't happen then. In fact, Gay marriage ceremonies seem to have been conducted until the 1300's. (article on gaychristian101, with supporting evidence from 2008)<br />
- it talks about marriage being denied, something that doesn't happen for anyone...except same sex partners.<br />
- it talks about being denied food created by God for those who believe...which is communion<br />
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This is the picture of what we see happening to people. Right now in New York, a Catholic Bishop is not only denying communion to Gay people but all elected officials who don't declare their opposition to the new law. <br />
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Sick. Deny communion to anyone who won't endorse your view publicly! That demand is so far out of the bounds of what God would want. He asks that we love him under our own free will. Good Christians should be allowed to disagree without being disagreeable!

I agree that this is sick, twisted, and aggressive... but doesn't it say that Satan roams the earth like a lion seeking his pray. He has been playing people forever. He wants people to live their emotions and hatred out because it hurts us, and what hurts us hurts God.

Kris99, This is a genuine question. I'm not baiting you or anything like that. Where is a reference to gay marriages until 1300's? I heard someone say that even in societies where gay/lesbians were accepted, marriage was between a man and woman. I'm interested in an opposing viewpoint. I'm trying to give this gay/lesbian thing an honest look. Thank you.

1 Timothy 4 (New International Version)<br />
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1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.<br />
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whhhoooooo is this from the same bible that condemns homosexuality. aaaahh you see its so easy to play that game. i do however love this sc<x>ripture. the point is go read the word study it . pull it appart inspect it with a fine tooth comb devour it and make it part of you only then can you truelly know Gods love and how it works . and if God then convicts you that homosexuality is wrong then so be it. but me i cannot and will not believe that the God of love who is love and sends us a constant message of love would ever deny someone because of love.

i am a gay christian 2. i would like to however point out that murder and homosexuality are 2 very differant things as murder is sin being gay is not. lust wich a lot of gay ppl experience because of the culture is a sin but if you truely love someone,God is love so then love is God and since God is perfect love true love can never be a sin. the bible is the inspired word of God and cannot be ignored what needs to be acknowledged is the fact that the bible has been translated from a form of greek and hebrew that doesnt exist anymore buy a culture we barely understand. Gods word was written by men of this time and culture. so the original king james version wich was written in the 1700s didnt contain the words homosexual purely because the word didnt exist then in the begining of the 1900s new versions such as the niv decided the word sexual perversions wasnt clear enough and seen as sociology describes homosexuality as a sexual perversion( wich mearly means different to societies norm, however one can argue wich society some subgroups would say not some socities practice things we may concider very bizare or barbaric but none the less a norm to that society) they would include homosexaulity just incase ppl felt it wasnt a perversion. ????? what why would they worry about that ahhh because social norms change. so whos norms where moses and paul( main guys that apparently condemn homosexuality ) talking about. theres . message by God interpretted by them in there understanding then further and further interpretted and translated till ooops somehow we decided homosexuals were def a big no no.

Darling, I love you , but God will never and is never going to accept sin from anyone! I will pray for your blinded mind, and ask that God will help you! That scripture forbidding people to marry you have tailor fashioned it to condone your desires, when God has made it REAL plain what is sin and what will not enter into a holy and sin free heavenly place called heaven. that scriture is referring toBut the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods, which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer." (1st Timothy 4:1-5).

1. Paul tells, and warns Timothy that men will fall away from the faith. Brothers and sisters will fall away from the faith. They will be deceived from deceitful spirits, and doctrines, or teachings of demons.

2. A very violent description, their consciences are seared as with a branding iron. This simply comes from liars, and men who know they are liars, they are hypocrites and ignore the truth and by their hypocrisy they lead many away.

3. Forbidding marriage, and abstaining from foods are two examples of these demonic doctrines. It sounds like they were trying to bind where the word of God does not bind. There is nothing inherently wrong with food or marriage when those who know the truth gratefully share it. God created these things a certain way, and they are good things.

4. Everything created by God is good does not mean it is o.k. to abuse the body with drugs, or does not mean that we have the right to indulge ourselves in sinful activities, and materialism. Nothing is to be rejected though. No person should feel that just because they are a Christian means they cannot enjoy things in life. But when you are enjoying different blessings, you need to acknowledge and receive them with gratitude.

5. The good things Paul is talking about are sanctified by the means of the word of God and are good things, But we also set these things apart, when thanking God for them
Marriage was ordained by God between a man and a woman to procreate the earth.18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
God’s Plan for Marriage
Genesis 1:27-28 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Let marriage be held in honor among all
Genesis 2:21-25 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.
Malachi 2:14,15 But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the LORD was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
1 Corinthians 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.
Children Given for Marriage
Genesis 29:22,23 So Laban gathered together all the people of the place and made a feast. But in the evening he took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and he went in to her.
Judges 1:12 And Caleb said, “He who attacks Kiriath-sepher and captures it, I will give him Achsah my daughter for a wife.” And Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb’s younger brother, captured it. And he gave him Achsah his daughter for a wife.
1 Samuel 17:25 And the men of Israel said, “Have you seen this man who has come up? Surely he has come up to defy Israel. And the king will enrich the man who kills him with great riches and will give him his daughter and make his father’s house free in Israel.”
1 Samuel 18:20,21 Now Saul’s daughter Michal loved David. And they told Saul, and the thing pleased him. Saul thought, “Let me give her to him, that she may be a snare for him and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him.” Therefore Saul said to David a second time, “You shall now be my son-in-law.”
Popular Bible Marriages/Weddings
Genesis 24:67 Then Isaac brought her into the tent of Sarah his mother and took Rebekah, and she became his wife, and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death.
1 Samuel 25:40-42 When the servants of David came to Abigail at Carmel, they said to her, “David has sent us to you to take you to him as his wife.” And she rose and bowed with her face to the ground and said, “Behold, your handmaid is a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord.” And Abigail hurried and rose and mounted a donkey, and her five young women attended her. She followed the messengers of David and became his wife.
Ruth 4:13 So Boaz took Ruth, and she became his wife. And he went in to her, and the LORD gave her conception, and she bore a son.
Esther 2:16-18 And when Esther was taken to King Ahasuerus, into his royal palace, in the tenth month, which is the month of Tebeth, in the seventh year of his reign, the king loved Esther more than all the women, and she won grace and favor in his sight more than all the virgins, so that he set the royal crown on her head and made her queen instead of Vashti. Then the king gave a great feast for all his officials and servants; it was Esther’s feast. He also granted a remission of taxes to the provinces and gave gifts with royal generosity.
Luke 2:4,5 (KJV) And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
John 2:1,2 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples.
What the Earthly Marriage Symbolizes
Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
Ephesians 5:23,24,32 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
Revelation 19:7-9 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”
Revelation 21:9-14 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed—on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Christian Quotes About Marriage
“Marriage is an exclusive union between one man and one woman, publicly acknowledged, permanently sealed, and physically consummated.” ~ Selwyn Hughes
“The monstrosity of sexual intercourse outside marriage is that those who indulge in it are trying to isolate one kind of union (the sexual) from all the other kinds of union which were intended to go along with it and make up the total union.” ~ C.S. Lewis
“A man doesn’t own his marriage; he is only the steward of his wife’s love.” ~ Edwin Louis Cole (Ed Cole)
“God created marriage. No government subcommittee envisioned it. No social organization developed it. Marriage was conceived and born in the mind of God.” ~ Max Lucado
“Fifty-fifty marriages are an impossibility. They do not work. They cannot work. In marriage someone has to be the final decision maker. Someone has to delegate responsibility, and God has ordained that this should be the husband. ” ~ Wayne Mack
Resources
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version
“Scripture quotations are from The Holy Bible, English Standard Version® (ESV®), copyright © 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.”

When you get the chance look up sexual immoral- oooops I already did for you! Sexual Immoral-The definition of immoral is deliberately
violating accepted principles of right and wrong.

The sexually immoral includes: prostitution,
***********, having sex outside of marriage,
homosexuality, and adultery.The bible says, "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside
his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your
body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?
You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."
(1 Corinthians 6:18-20)
Revelation 21:8 - The Sexually Immoral
"The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral,
those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars
- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
The definition of immoral is deliberately
violating accepted principles of right and wrong.

The sexually immoral includes: prostitution,
***********, having sex outside of marriage,
homosexuality, and adultery.
The bible says, "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside
his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your
body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?
You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."
(1 Corinthians 6:18-20)

You are supposed to honor God with your body. When you are sexually immoral, you sin
against God and yourself. God knows your every thought and action. The bible says living
a homosexual life style is wrong. You need to repent and turn from your wickedness. You
can not hide your sins from God. On Judgement Day, all of your sins will be exposed.The 7th commandment is: "You shall not commit adultery." (Exodus 20:14)

Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that
anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his
heart." (Matthew 5:27-28) If you have ever looked at anyone with lust, that makes you an
adulterer at heart.

All *********** is sexually immoral. You are not supposed to even look with lust. God
can help you overcome any type of sin.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify
us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9

The definition of immoral is deliberately
violating accepted principles of right and wrong.

The sexually immoral includes: prostitution,
***********, having sex outside of marriage,
homosexuality, and adultery.

Prostitution, and *********** that is the missing word. Fornicator, and adulterers go to hell if they don't repent. Not just gays. You either accept this, this is God's Word, and it will not change! For you or me. Either you accept it or you don't, it don't take away from it at all.

***********

people who watch ****

For some reason it won't let me post it, but i think you got it.

That scripture you quoted is talking about people who have fell away from God and His Word and changed things how they wanted it to be changed and turned the truth of marriage into a lie,doctrines of devils, and seducing spirits- these people are not christians anymore because it clearly talks about these same people in Romans 1st chapter -"21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Lord, I pray right now in the name of Jesus that you ope this young man's eyes to accept Your Word for what it is. deliver him from this unclean spirit in Jesus name. Continue to fill him with Your love and strength, God You know I am not trying to attack him, I want Him to accept Your truth, because You love him, and so do I. I have a special love for gays. Deliver him Lord, take the taste out of his mouth Father in the mighty name of Jesus! There is nothing you can't deliver from. you love the sinner, but not the sin. Save this young man, give him peace Lord. and please don't let him kill himself and suffer eternally in a devil's hell. In Jesus name. I am always here for you fairy if you want to talk. I love you always! God has great plans for you!

5 More Responses

Paul saw a division I'm the early Church forming over the food that they ate. He saw Jews following the law (right from Leviticus) and he saw Gentiles that weren't. The gentiles didn't believe they were sinning eating pork. The Jews said it was the law and it was good for them to follow the law. <br />
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Because it was the law they fealt they were right.<br />
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Paul saw it differently. He said that it is not what you put into your mouth that makes you unclean but what comes out of it. He sided squarely with the Gentiles but he also said that the Gentiles living under grace should not cause someone who believes something is a sin to sin.<br />
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So the Jews were also doing what was right.<br />
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Paul interpreted Gods teachings and made a judgement. In doing so he kept the Jewish people from pride and arrogance and reminded the Gentiles of what love requires.<br />
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I believe this is not so different. This issue is dividing the church. I know of a church near me which converted from being Episcaplian to Anglican because of this issue alone. <br />
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There is a battle for who owns the property, the people in the church are bitterly divided, and I would guess people were deeply hurt that they were rejected by their local church just as they were being accepted nationally. How would you feel?<br />
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The battle is again those who seek to do what they believe God wants with others who live boldly under grace. <br />
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Until the end of days when God judges us we will not know who is the wheat and who is the tairs with certainty but we can look at the fruits of the labor. <br />
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God says that all that is from God will bear good fruit. <br />
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I can tell you that there are some gay people who have repented of their 'sin' and seem genuinely happy. I have never met these people but I trust their testimony. I can also tell you that the number is very few. Some repent and are not exactly happy but live celibate lives or marry the opposite gender...again very few.<br />
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In fact, Exodus international is the leading organization behind this...another group obtained from Exodus international a list of people that were successes and followed up for them. Of the people not one said their same sex attraction went away. Many were in same sex relationships again.<br />
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If that's God blessing and prospering his goid and faithful servants, I would be astounded.<br />
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On the other hand we have entire denominations that have grown up around being open and affirming. One of the largest is the MCC which has grown to 250 churches in 22 countries and has 43,000 members from it's founding in 1968. <br />
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In that church I know of people that have been personally transformed from a life filled with depression, anger, pain, and suffering to new people in Christ. God is at work and thousands of people are being ripped from the grip of hell and given new life.<br />
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They are growing too. Lives changed from broken to rebuilt giving glory and honor to God. That's what I am hearing. <br />
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Onthe otherwise I have heard my friends give testimony of their families closing their doors and hearts to them. I have heard heart wrenching stories of physical and emotional abuse committed by Christians that leave people broken and suicidal. In fact, no other demographic has a higher risk of suicide than LGBT people...including people with crippling mental illnesses.<br />
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What is needed is the life altering message that God loves you no matter who you are. That is tge message of the church! That's what we are supposed to share! <br />
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That's what I am thinking. <br />
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I want everyone to know that God loves them right where they are. From us he expects love to him and our neighbors which is everyone. <br />
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I say all this and I am afraid I am sounding like I am above this. I am not. I sin still almost every day. Tonight I raised my voice at my daughter and I threw a book at her. Mind you, it was her book and I didn't throw it in a way that would hurt anything but her feelings...but I was angry and I did it in anger.<br />
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What prompted this was that she failed to get the table cleaned off for dinner, then after we had dinner only the adults cleaned off their dishes, which prompted the special punishment of cleaning off the table. As the oldest (11) she was told to make sure her brothers did their jobs which were to clean off the cups for the youngest and to clean off plates and other trash to the older. <br />
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This is a five minute job for most adults.<br />
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One hour later, I heard the brothers fighting in the kitchen and went to deal with the situation. When I arrived I saw plates, cups, trash, and the table wasn't wiped down. My daughter was off in the living room waiting for them to do their job. <br />
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So I was upset. I pointed out with a calm but elevated voice that it was her job to make sure that they did. That it was her job even before dinner to get it cleaned off. That it was in fact a punishment and that she hadn't even bothered to clean off her things. <br />
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To which she retorted 'I cleaned off my things' in a very snotty tone.<br />
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That was the moment she received in her direction the book which was laying clearly on the table.<br />
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Now, I have learned tonight two lessons one is that I really hate getting mad at my children. The second thing is when God gives us a job and we don't get it done and he tells us to go do it again he is going to be mad...really mad when he catches us playing video games and claiming that someone else needs to do their job first so when he is chastising me, my plan is to bow my head and say I am sorry and get to work cause I don't want God to throw the book at me!<br />
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I am no better than my daughter was tonight in how I live. The gospel is very clear in my head and so much harder to live. Because I know this, my daughter received from me an apology for losing my temper and hugs before bed. I received a clean table.<br />
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One last thought though, I have often said that if I am wrong and homosexuality is a sin, myself and every gay person will go to hell when we are judged. Which is in essence the same outcome as if I was never a Christian. Justice will be served because God judges right every time. <br />
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If the church is wrong as many as 600 million people in this world today will never hear and feel welcomed by God when he wanted them with him. When he told us that it was our job to tell people about him and his love for us. A field that size needs some people working in the fields trying to bring in his harvest!<br />
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Paul told us if we can't agree on matters of sc<x>ripture that are debatable then wait and let God decide. The church should not be splitting. All should be welcomed. God will sort us all out when the time comes. The harvest will go to his storerooms. The taires into the furnace. <br />
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I pray that none of us are in the latter group.

Ahh ok Kris99 I now understand your thinking. I agree that our salvation comes by faith and not works but I have to say I also believe that when a person truly has salvation their actions and works and lifestyles reflect Christ. Many people believe that because they are forgiven, they can continue in their sin regardless to what it is. The sc<x>riptures say opposite. And although the Old Testament isn't as relevant, 2 Timothy 3:16 says its not to be ignored because it has come from God and He wouldn't have given us those books if they were not for our learning. So for me, Leviticus is not out. I just dont feel like its my place to pick and choose what part of God's Word is relevant or irrelevant you know? I just accept it all and live life to the fullest but attempting to do so without sin with the help of Jesus. But I do respect your views. and I appreciate your explanation

God does not view all sins the same. God has clearly indicated this through Jesus himself:<br />
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Luke 11:23-24 says, "If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."<br />
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I can't read that and think all sins are the same. <br />
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In point of fact, I don't believe a mother stealing to feed herself and her children is even a sin. The sin was in not providing the food when the need was apparent. Sometimes doing nothing is a sin.<br />
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Now, on to your Leviticus sc<x>ripture. Leviticus is not rules for every day people today. It was rules for a specific people at a specific time for a specific reason. God needed his people to stick together in a very special way, apart from the other nations. He wanted them to be different from those they lived among the rules made them different. He also wanted them to be safer. There is nothing wrong with that. Most Christians don't live by these rules because they have looked at them and realized they aren't needed. We are called to a higher order of righteousness than following a list.<br />
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The fact is the *law* never was intended to produce right living, it was intended to break us of our self righteousness. To teach humility. To teach us the higher calling that Jesus called us to. Living on faith, love, and charity. Making choices not because it is the law but because it is right. <br />
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I believe your problem in understanding this is that you are still living your life like it is following the law that sets you apart and makes you right with God. <br />
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In your head and heart you *KNOW* it is your faith in Jesus as your savior that sets you apart and makes you right with God.<br />
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To set your mind at ease though, let me assure you that if Konrad is lying with a man....it's nothing like with a woman. Moreover, it's not going to cause him to stop wanting to be the best person he can be and living each day for God. <br />
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I agree, we shouldn't make harsh judgments on other people. Please understand that Jesus told us not to do this for a reason. It mutes his testimony. It drives people away from God. They curse him and his church today because of this abuse. <br />
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I also agree God doesn't change his principles or standards but he has changed his strategy. He has made a series of promises and each time he has honored them without a fault even when we failed to honor our parts.<br />
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Bottom line though, none of us are justified or accepted by God because of our actions it's by faith in Jesus. That is how we are accepted and call ourselves Christian. <br />
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While I may have already spoken for Konrad too much, my best guess is he simply accepts it as a sin that is not his to change. In my case, I reject the belief that it's sin at all. I believe we are called to look at the actions and motives behind the actions of people and look to understand Gods reason for something being a sin in the first place. <br />
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God gives us permission to ask why. That's not a sin. <br />
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I look at the fruits of the spirit that come from an action. The fruits sewn by those who stand firm in the belief that homosexuality as sin, I do not find to be from God but those on the other side who call for marriage and righteous living I believe are.

Kris99, welll actually I do believe all sin is the same in the eyes of God. (Except for blasphemy of course) I think He judges according to the heart but I don't think there is any excuse for sin, therefore He views it all the same way. But yes the intent behind certain sins are judged soley by Him, not me. That's why man is not God lol. James 2:10, 1 John 3:4-5, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 state that sins are viewed the same way.<br />
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And Konrad is right in that homosexuality is indeed sinful. "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). It doesn't get clearer than that. God took down a whole city ba<x>sed on that sort of sexual immorality. My question to Konrad was, knowing this fact, how does one feel justified in continuing this lifestyle?<br />
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I don't believe people should make harsh judgments on other people but I also believe that we should take the Bible for what it is and not try to make it convenient for us because God doesn't change His principles or standards to make us happy no matter what we feel. I have the same question for anyone who knows the truth and chooses to live in perpetual sin of any kind. Where do they find justification and acceptance from God?

right you can put up scripture take a piece of it and try convince the rest of the world what you believe in is correct. Now isnt it interesting that those scripture who you say are a sexual example do not condemn a same sex relationahip for woman. This is only spoken in Romans 1 - 20 etc now why is this. The word toevah could relate to some thing yet in this count it means abomination related to idol worship. This is confirmed when Paul mentioned Idol worship in romans. So it was a same sex act in Idol worship leviticus is referring to. Romans uses a interesting physis (φύσις), which means the nature we are born with. It was not uncommon for hetereosexual to have ritual sex to each other for pagan gods. They raped rulers for thier gods. Becuase these hetereosexual went against thier nature. With this in mind it is also wrong for Christian Gay people to go against our nature and marry hetereosexual because we are afraid of our idols the church or our church family. For me to listen to your belief you will have me committ sin. This will not happen

iceprincess09, <br />
<br />
Do you really believe that all sins are equal? It's true that we have all sinned and fallen short, but I would argue that not all sins are the same! <br />
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Can you really see the sin of a mother and her boyfriend raping her young daughter over and over again for years as being the same as someone who steals food from a store because they don't have any food for their young children who are literally starving to death?<br />
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Don't be mislead, when we say that all have sinned we are not saying that all sins are equal only acknowledging that we are less than God. In fact, God can and did kill people without ever sinning. It's impossible for God to sin...but he flooded the world and killed everything living on the land except those in the ark.<br />
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Grace is freedom. Freedom to mess up and fix it and not go to hell. Martin Luthor once wrote "Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly." Now, I am not sure I like the idea of boldly defying God but I will boldly defy the Church if I believe it is wrong.<br />
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Because Martin Luthor defied the church we have the Bible in our hands today. He launched a revolution that increased the righteousness of all Christianity. Praise God!<br />
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I don't agree with Konrad that being Gay is a sin. I believe many Gay people do sin more than straight people but this should be no surprise because they have already been condemned by many to hell and have just accepted that. It makes sense.<br />
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I believe the Church is preaching and teaching a perverse gospel that distorts the actual teachings of Jesus (love god, love your neighbor, make disciples) and in effect has chosen some of the practices of the harshest teachers of the law that were so often condemned by Jesus for their wrong judgments on people.<br />
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Now, to be fair, I am part of the church so when I say the church, I mean the institutionalized churches that condemn people for who they are more than what they have done.

Being Gay is not a Sin. The sin are those who condemn us who God has wonderfully made

Hi, I've been dying to talk to someone who considers him/herself to be a gay Christian. I'm not here to judge or play God. I have questions.<br />
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What do you think of the sc<x>ripture that says "Shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid" Romans 6:1. Again, I'm not challenging you. I'm just curious since you're the first to actually admit that homosexuality is a sin yet, decide to continue that lifestyle.<br />
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I ask about that sc<x>ripture because I have always taken that to mean that a Christian sees the error of his/her ways and changes them because they love the Lord, rather than thinking that they can continue to do what they want and God will just keep forgiving. In other words, I believe that although we can never be perfect and no sin is worse than the next and all can be forgiven, we are not saved if we settle for living in perpetual sin.<br />
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I'd ask the same question to a person who is constantly having sex outside of wedlock and convincing themselves that it's ok because they "love the person". Just because it's how we feel in our hearts, does it make it ok in God's eyes? Can we take God's never changing Word and twist it to make it fit our lives? Or should we strive to conform to Him even if it's not the most pleasant thing? Jesus suffered and He tells us to be prepared to do the same.<br />
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Can a person call themselves Christian or saved if they say, "Well I live a life of sin that I'm not trying to fight against but God is going to keep forgiving me." Romans 6:1 says "God forbid" we do that. I'm not telling you that you can ever stop desiring the same sex but do you believe that God will continue to forgive the daily act of a homosexual lifestyle? Being married to the same sex etc.?<br />
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Again, please don't think I'm preaching to you. These are questions I've wanted to ask for a long time. I don't hate anyone. I have respect for you and I say let Him be judge. I just have a hard time understanding.

Im sure God has no problemns with being married to the same sex as after all Jesus will enter a holy covenant with the Church who will be full of males. My wedding certificate will say my husband is Jesus

I find it very interesting, life. God, I accept him as my lord and savior. Although, I feel singled out casted out. I feel that God loves everyone, sinner or not. I feel that if love is what makes me go to hell then i will. I am ready for God's judgement for me. Because God is love, and how could he not love me? I don't kill. or anything, just loving another woman. I have it in my heart and cannot change. I feel that I can't. Just feel so lost. You're story is so inspiring to me. I guess our fate is in God's hands. Only God can judge me at the end.

No. God destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah because the people were so deprived of any redeeming value that there were none worth redeeming besides Lot and his family.<br />
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Your assertion is terribly flawed. The strange flesh was not GAY sex but Angel sex...and it wasn't just Angel sex but it was in fact Angel rape that they wanted. <br />
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Moreover, the Angels were sent to destroy the city. It had already been judged....so this abomination was at most a small part of why God destroyed the cities.<br />
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God can and does welcome everyone who comes to his table. God through Jesus taught us that love is what he expects from us. Love for our awesome father and for eachother. <br />
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Your message does not bring about the fruits of the spirt...rather it brings destruction. It is utterly against Gods will and absolutely of the devil himself.<br />
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It was Jesus who said there is a time and a season for all things...the time is now approaching when God will make clear to every LGBT person that he is there for them and the doors are wide open.<br />
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I am convinced that this revival will knock down the gates of hell and bring more souls to heaven than any before...Awesome in power, strength, and majesty.

noone cant be gay and be a christian God destroyed a whole city because of this wickedness sodom and gomorrah God says this is a abomination to him

Actually you are scripturally incorrect It says nothing about homosexuality.

Ezekiel 16:49–50
49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, dexcess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

It's been observed by some that one of the reasons that gays and christians have such a hard time getting along is because each of the groups has had an intensely personal, life changing experience that feels indisputably true to them. For gays, this is 'coming out;' for christians, 'getting saved.' When you add to this the extreme vitriol and spiritual violence that gays are often faced with when dealing with christians, one can see why we're not all that eager to dialogue.

hi, i was just wondering where you read that the bible says that nuthin can separate us from heaven? Im asking cuz my bible uses the word love not heaven. Either way while none of those things mentioned are able to come between Gods love for man and man our iniquities or habitual sins sins we choose to continually commit will ultimately keep us frnm intering into eternal heaven. Remember 1 john says wd have to confess our sins to be forgiven and repent that means turn from. And ill close with this, up till i was 24 I had a passion for stealing. Yet i knew it was wrong. But when i got saved i had to let it go. Would you tell a serial killer who gets saved that its okay to keep killing if he cant help himself that he will still go to heaven?

I think you should ponder the own personal hell you intend to create by marrying the opposite gender than you find attractive, do you really think she will be happy for long knowing that if social circumstances where different she would not be your first choice ?<br />
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You have a lifetime ahead of you to "get good with God" ... your impending actions will have real world consequences in the coming years.<br />
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What are you thinking? , if you find the right collection of quotes everything will fall into place ?<br />
If your gay ... be gay and happy, not pretending to be a pious church going family man.<br />
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Marriages dont need that sort of ongoing pressure, Find a nice man (or rough trade if thats how your tastes run) then a nice 'liberal" church .. the type that has heard of electricity and keeps no goats that could be coveted.<br />
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Be true to who you are and find your fulfillment along that path.

TheAgnostic,<br />
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My belief is that what we read into the Bible is not always what was being said at the time.<br />
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Paul said in Romans 14:<br />
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.<br />
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.<br />
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10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:<br />
<br />
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, <br />
‘every knee will bow before me; <br />
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]<br />
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12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.<br />
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If you are Christian you have no right to judge a brother or sister in Christ and even LESS right to put and judgement on non-Christians. <br />
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The important thing for Christians should be Christ and Gods amazing work. All we need to know is we are broken and only God can fix it...and in time he will fix everything and right all wrongs.<br />
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Christians today want the right to be not-persecuted for being Christian but they deny the right to not be persecuted to LGBT people...in some countries even calling for their death! That's not what CHRIST taught! That's not true Christianity.<br />
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Satan is known as the accuser...look at what he did with Job...THAT is SIN. God doesn't seek to be apart from us. Satan seeks to keep us apart from God by pointing out our faults or failings...failings we all have...all our lives...like it or not...aware or not.<br />
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Ultimately, it's not Gods design that was wrong...it was the original sin. If God fixed our genome and continuously renewed us we would all be perfect and live forever. Our loss of his protection was because Satan came between God and Adam/Eve.

The Bible is clear on homosexuality. If you are homosexual, and know it's a sin, then according to the Bible you should stop doing it. Yes, sinners can be saved, but persisting in it, it's another story.<br />
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My question is, how come God the All Merciful and Forgiving has inspired versets proving such a discrimination? Like they weren't written at His command, but according to the mentality of the people of that time. Even inspired by God, they don't seem that much able to overcome their own social prejudices.

This was a very interesting thread.

Thank you for sharing yourstory. I can relate to it. What price specifically were you talking about paying though? are you talking about Hell or ???.<br />
Also i know EXACTLY what you are talking about that "getting/being saved" for real feeling. I've experienced it too and its beautiful.

I don't agree with homosexuality,BUT...I'm glad to meet a lover of Christ.We are suppose to turn from sin,thats what repent means,"To turn away from."Intentional sin is the worst kind,because You know Your doing what God hates.,sins committed in ignorance are just that.You don't know Your sinning.But when Jesus enters Your heart the Holy spirit convicts You of the sin Your in.But,We mess up everyday and God forgives everyday.No matter how many times we fall down,Jesus ALWAYS picks us up,dusts us off,bandages our wounds and help us walk with Him...Daily!My heart is so full of compassion for You Konrad.You have endured much.You are strong and loved by God...Isn't it so very wonderful just knowing the love of Christ is solely for you.That even if You were the only sinner in the world,He would have still suffered and died and rose again Just for You.Oh its wonderful.Thank You for Your testimony.Please accept My friend request...We are afterall brother and sister in Christ.God bless.

Jesus is indeed my savior. He didn't say don't drink. Drink. Be happy. Don't torture yourself with heavy burdens. He made wine from water. It is not inherently bad. <br />
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We are to guard ourselves. You shouldn't drink to excess or use drugs because they alter your state of mind. They make it hard to not sin. Your judgements become impaired. You can really hurt someone else and God does hate that.<br />
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Jesus did not rebuke the law because it is good for teaching. The law is good for us that live under grace also. He did however clarify the law. He did let the teachers of the law *know* that they had no right to burden people with burdens even they could not fufill.<br />
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He told us to love God with everything and love others as much as ourselves. This explains the law. It puts it in context.<br />
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This isn't hard or complex. Sexual relationships (all sexual relationships) open us up to being hurt and hurting others. It is as dangerous a territory for sin as drinking to excess. So God in his infinate wisdom made it sacred. He tied it directly to the church and made it symbolic with real commitments and promises being made. God hates divorce because it is the breaking of those promises.<br />
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It is possible to not sin and be gay. Love your partner and keep it sacred. Do not be the person who harms the other. Make and keep your vows. Never forget that God not your partner is perfect lest you fall into idoltary.<br />
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That contract between you, your spouse/partner, and God is holy. Holy marriage. No church or government or person besides you, your partner, And God are needed.<br />
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There is such a thing as sin and Christians don't do it when they live under the law but far too many people are opeessed under a false law. It's not wrong to live by rules but if you were able to do that you would never have needed grace! <br />
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I am afraid I am tired but I can say that if you take Jesus's teaching on love and look at the 10 commandments with just two questions is it sin because it is unloving to God or people? Any sin can be understood and you can avoid sin by not doing those things that bring harm.<br />
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We have to stop condeming people because of who they love and start looking at how they are loving or more specificly not loving. <br />
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We can help people love God more. We can help someone better love their spouse. We can't, however, use a cookie cutter absolute approach because it just will not work. <br />
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Everyone sins and falls short of the glory of God. Let's just invite everyone to come along.<br />
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Why did Jesus tell the rich man, who claimed he was doing everything the law required, to sell everything and give it to the poor? Could it be because he was obeying the law but missing the point to it? <br />
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Jesus taught us. Do you get it? His death was him loving us and God. <br />
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Heaven rejoices when we turn from loving ourselves first to loving eachother and seeking out what Jesus would do. It is not a sin to follow a list of rules but it does not prevent you from sinning.<br />
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He does not condemn us. He loves us. Love him back. He does not condemn your neighbor. He loves them. Love them too. Those who he has not condemned and loves so should we.

hey. i know where you're coming from. not from personal experience but i have a lot of friends in this same position. i feel like you CAN be saved, but by disobeying God's Word by deliberately being a homosexual against God's command is denying him by the Father. let me give you an example. that's like me saying i know i shouldn't drink and do drugs, but i will do them until the day that i die, and nothing with change that. but i'm still saved. if it were that easy everyone would sin. unconditionally. so i'm not denying that you are saved. but the Bible says to get into heaven you must confess that Jesus Christ is your Saviour and you must not deny him before the Father. deliberate sin is a gateway to hell.

don't lay to your self <br />
god made you a man and you destroyed this by making your self a gay <br />
i am sure that god will bless and forgive you but only when you become a man again . try to make it and say it to your self <br />
I AM NOT A GAY ......... I WAS BORN A MAN AND I WILL DIE A MAN <br />
god bless you ,,,,,,,,, good luck

Who said it is supposed to be an accident?<br />
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Sin is never an accident. It is ingrained in who we are as humans. <br />
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On several occasions Jesus did save or heal and send people and end his message to them with 'go and sin no more'. Which is a great mystery to me.<br />
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The repentence required for salvation is from a me centered life to a God centered life. There is that realization that you will follow the lamb that was slain because he was slain for your transgressions. <br />
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It occurs while we are still lost in our own sin. When we knock he opens the door. <br />
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Sin has a cost. It has real costs...like if I get mad at someone and 'slash all four tires' as Carrie Underwood suggests...I am probably going to have to pay for the tires. I may get jail time. <br />
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If homosexuality is a sin their will be consequences.<br />
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It is, however, not the job of you or me to convict someone of the crime of sin. This is the role of the Holy Spirit.<br />
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At the moment of salvation we become new creatures. Our sin is washed away and we become yoked under Christ with a burden that is light and that will give us rest.<br />
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I can't find the verse but I think it is Paul who when talking about grace asks retoricly if we should continue on in our sin so that grace may abound...which he answers...and of course we shouldn't. However, we can. Everything is permissable but not everything is good for us.<br />
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Jesus said if we love him that we should follow his commandments. He commanded us to love God and love eachother. He also commanded us to go and make deciples of all nations and people.<br />
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If someone is in fact sinning and are unrepetent rest assured their life will show it because God will be far from them.<br />
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It's not for us to convict them...it will be evident for most to see.

"ok but these people cant ask forgiveness and then purposely go and sin again. Its supposed to be an accident. THis is a lifestyle choice. If I committed to having a sexual relationship with my father, do you think I should continue in that relationship and call myself a christian but oh its ok as long as I ask forgiveness! Your logic is NOT there."<br />
<br />
can kikkzzisback continue 2 hate, insult, belittle, judge, condemn...purposely doing it again and again and ask forgiveness? this is HER "lifestyle" choice...and she does "call herself a christian"

As a long-time homosexual and a long-time Christian I am in the same, proud boat. I am very active in the Episcopal church and within my community. My long-time partner (40 years) is even more active in the Episcopal church than I am. We feel we are very accepted by other church members, our neighbors, and people we deal with in general. I noticed that you wrote this over a year ago and I hope you still feel the same way today. I agree with everything you said.

Thanks for sharing! You are an inspiration!

Kik and Justice, <br />
<br />
I'm curious, are you even Christian? Those words are so filled with venom. They make people hate God and lose their faith. Is that what you want?<br />
<br />
I don't know that homosexuality is a sin. I think it's not the ideal. I think it's a hard road. I don't know that it is a sin. <br />
<br />
I can come up with cases where looking at the same scripture I would say we read to much into what is said. Certainly we treat it like it is some kind of unspeakable evil in the Church and that is not the case. Paul followed up Romans 1 with Romans 2...a lesson on Judging. Is it possible that the lesson on judging others is the emphasis of what is being said and the 'sin' is just a minor detail in the bigger picture? Certainly looks like it.<br />
<br />
Remember the numbers are added for our convenience.<br />
<br />
I can also come up with cases where it is sin. <br />
<br />
Frankly though, I think it is on the church to bring as many people to salvation as possible and skip worrying about whether they are a sinner. We know everyone is. <br />
<br />
By all means though, cast your stones but I'm warning you it may just be you who ends up facing an unhappy Jesus on judgment day.<br />
<br />
Remember what he said:<br />
Luke 11 (NIV)<br />
4Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.<br />
...<br />
9“So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. <br />
10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.<br />
...<br />
46Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them. <br />
....<br />
52“Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.” <br />
<br />
<br />
I am one of the people that you insult and I tell you I love God and I love you and seek good for you.<br />
<br />
I pray you will choose to serve God faithfully in all humility and love with me. Building each other up to his glory. Amen.

god made you a man not a woman now you made your self a gay its not god<br />
god don't create this kind<br />
don't think that you are fine because you are not try to fix things with your self and be a man again also ask god to forgive your mistake<br />
that was my advice buddy

God doesn't care whom we love, as long as we love Him. <br />
(From a heterosexual grandfather, and member of The Clergy.)

well... iv just read all 47 comments and i haave to say i am actually exhausted.<br />
<br />
i am not christian but i am not about to be all pig headed and tell you your wrong.<br />
(i dont follow religions at all and am blissfully ignorant of a vast majority of it.)<br />
<br />
i did think however that you have fought your corner very well, as there are lots of know-it-all's out there that think they are the most amazing thing ever. they are, sadly, not worth wasting a breath on. (unless you like the debates ... which i think you probably might be?!?) <br />
<br />
i dont believe that you should be judged for being homosexual, as it is all about the makeup of your dna and im sure other factors come into it as well.<br />
i dont think you should punish your self for your orientation. we are who we are. <br />
as you said ' you cant help who you fall in love with'. :)

i love the fact how you are really into your faith and even when ppl try to shadow most of what your saying u know and believe in what u know that i find very encouraging as a person who believes clearly in god but the bible i am confused about alot of things like the fact that we can only issue a divorce if he is unfaithful and after we divorce we cant remarry only if our partners dies so what they are saying is if i marry a man who turns out to be someone that beats and abuse me in the long run god wants me to suffer and not divorce and be happy with some one else . i have a lot of issue with alot of stuff in their.y is it that we get feelings for the opposite sex if its not right we didnt create those feelings , they didnt just appear . dont get me wrong i am not saying its right but i am saying we dont have any control over these things the most we can do is deny it .and be miserable.

You are so awesome.<br />
<br />
This is exactly what I have been trying to say to people for years now! That God isn't going to shun you or turn you away for being a homosexual. <br />
<br />
So anyone that says he does, SLAP. Did you feel that? That was Jesus ***** slapping you.

This is a great story. You explained yourself very well :) and I am glad that you stand for who you are :)

I love the way you put this.

HAHAHAHA! Amazing! The most well thought out Christian I've ever seen or heard of is a homosexual! Bravo! I am inspired by your faith! <br />
Forgive me. I come off as cold and sarcastic sometimes, but I am not. I mean what I wrote above. I also know that this is not a light subject for you.<br />
<br />
<br />
I am just a bitter individual. I am not a christian, I have left the church to be a sinful fornicator and will pay for my own sins with my own soul. I was baptized and raised Christian since I was 5. Baptized at 8...But that doesn't matter to me. I believe if there is a God he will judge me fairly. I surely won't go to hell for anything I've done and if I am shunned from God than so be it. If I become a soul wandering purgatory than that may be very interesting. But I will walk my own path. I do not desire salvation and I do not walk a path of destruction.

It's called context ardvrk. I could go on all day on the millions of misconceptions you have about the Bible. No doubt your research is word-to-mouth with little background study and no understanding of the culture or meanings behind the words. <br />
<br />
And homosexuality is mentioned in more than one place in the Bible FYI- it's in the New Testament as well. Not just the shrimpy part.<br />
<br />
I feel so sorry for people like you, who are so high-handed they assume I know nothing about science because I'm religious. I didn't put my brain or education on hold because I believe in God. You're so convinced that anyone who considers God as real isn't interested in science, which is bullshit and totally illogical. As if you would know.<br />
<br />
Part of believing what I do comes with the responsibility to consider the possibility of being wrong. It might surprise you to know I'm not anti-science and I do know quite a bit about the "opposition" of my beliefs. Of course I believe what I think is right, otherwise I wouldn't believe. But I'm not an ogre, I do want to be well-rounded and understand other points of view.<br />
<br />
Seriously, whats with the ***** fest? "Deluded"? "Get a grip"? What does that mean? You're getting upset because I don't believe what you do? That's so snobbish and disrespectful. How can you represent yourself as the elite thinker when you're insulting those who don't agree? <br />
<br />
In the little I've read about your post I get the impression you're unnecessarily aggressive about the way other people think. As if my own homosexuality or personal life infringes on your or anyone else. As if my belief in God will somehow cause you harm. Try treating others as people instead of fodder to re-enforce your "scientific" opinions.<br />
<br />
And keep in mind I don't know all the answers but at least I can admit it...and not be a total ******* about it.

Konrad - do you eat shrimp? I know not ONE Christian (except for the Jews for Jesus types) who refrains from eating shrimp. You DO know, right, that eating shrimp is banned in the exact same book as homosexuality, right?<br />
<br />
So why do Christians eat shrimp?<br />
<br />
And no, Jesus did NOT say it was now ok to.<br />
<br />
And no, those rules do NOT just apply to Jews, because if they did, then only Jews couldn't be Gay. Gentiles could be.<br />
<br />
And Paul - the ONLY other reference to homosexuality? He never met Jesus. Never heard him speak, which is probably the reason that Paul never EVER quotes Jesus as having said anything. Not once. Most of the time Paul doesn't even mention Jesus as even having lived on Earth. Paul was a charlatan who jumped on the Gentile Christian thing as a windfall, because all of Jesus' apostles (if he actually ever existed, since there is NO independent proof he ever did) were against Paul. They thought he was a fanatic. They thought to follow Jesus, one had to adhere to Jewish Law.<br />
<br />
That means the Sabbath is Friday night to Saturday night. You've been committing a sin against the 10 Commandments your entire life! Naughty naughty!<br />
<br />
That means no shrimp. No escargot. No clams. No cheeseburgers. No beef, even, since they're all hybrids now. No bread or pasta because you can't tell for sure if the farmers ever sowed two different types of grain in their fields. No speaking to menstruating women, or you'll have to sacrifice birds and goats (no lie - read Leviticus - it's all there).<br />
<br />
AND - did you know you're supposed to stone your children and kill them at the city gates if they misbehave? Did you know you're allowed to sell your daughter into slavery? How COME Christians don't own slaves anymore - it's allowed in the Bible! Oh, and if you ever get mad at a priest, I'd suggest not making fun of his bald head, since God sent 2 bears to ravage (kill) 42 children because they did that to one of God's priests. Yep - tore their little bodies to shreds. You can read about that in the second Kings.<br />
<br />
What a WONDERFUL god you believe in. How you could stand to worship a sick, manipulative, egotistical and by his own words, "JEALOUS" - how could you do that and have any spark of what it is to be human in you?<br />
<br />
I feel so sorry for deluded people like you. Get a grip - learn some science and quit reading that idiotic book of lies.

Thank you Konrad for sharing this story! Keep your faith in God who loves you and be brave. I would remind you of Desmond Tutu words:<br />
<br />
"If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God."

Don't be stuck... we die for a lack of knowledge. You don't have to choose one over the other, even though many of us were taught that and feel confused by that. I pray that you are able to have both.<br />
www.CovenantCouple.com

Wow...this is really interesting. I know I do things that I know are wrong, but keep doing...I wish more people would be so open and honest about things like this. At first, clicking on this link...well, I guess I let myself fall into the undoubtedly unfair belief of "gay Christian is an oxymoron" (silly of me, sorry :S). After having read this though...just wow, you believe all the same things I have been taught and believe...but you're also homosexual...<br />
<br />
This is something I really needed to read right now, to be reminded that we're not all perfect, we're not all even necessarily repentant...but that doesn't mean we're not saved. I'm really glad I saw this story. Thank you. :D :D :D

Hi Konrad,<br />
<br />
I clicked on your profile after you answered my question to see who you are, and this story was the first one to pop up. I am SO glad I read it -- and so GRATEFUL you had the courage to write it! One of the most grievous offenses of the church has been alienating homosexuals, going as far as to call a "gay Christian" an oxymoron. But that is no different than saying "Christian sinner," because that is what they all are. (I say "they" because I am not part of a church, not because I think I'm sinless.) I applaud you for keeping your faith and your love of God -- and your humility. This story is absolutely inspiring.

Hi, Konrad, <br />
I've read your story and your comments, its really refreshing to hear from someone whose gay but at the same time clearly dedicated to God. I understand how you see being gay as wrong, but at the same time how you can't stop it. <br />
<br />
I hope you and your partner are very happy together

Well, I suppose I wouldn't be true to myself if I didn't check it out. I'll look through your claims and get back to you.

Hmm. Interesting story.

Ah..that's a lot of information. Can you list your sources please? I just don't find it believable that so much of the original text was re-written without anyone noticing. (Especially the Old Testament). Anytime that was done in history it was immediately under scrutiny. The Jews livelihood was strictly based on the authenticity of their text, so the perversion of the Torah would be an intense, serious change in their history that would never go hidden. There are plenty of Rabbi's who study the Torah in it's original text and build their lives on the understanding of their religion.<br />
<br />
And the early Catholic church preached strictly in Latin which was used to prevent the commoners from fully understanding the Bible, they never had to resort to hiding and changing to manipulate the people. Different sects of religion sprung up based on the interpretations, not re-written passages. (Calvinists for example) Also, the "original Bible" couldn't be changed so easily- we still have the Dead Sea Scrolls which is constantly under scholars eyes. (Not all of them Christian and certainly not all of them with an agenda). <br />
<br />
A common misconception is that Constantine had books of the Bible edited. What people don't investigate is that he was never a Christian and only established Christianity as the official religion to further his political career, he had no interest personal interest in the Bible. The books they are thinking of (Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Thomas) weren't even taken seriously as "Bible books" in their day. That is because they have no clear narration and have various hackneyed passages that are just copied passages from books like Mathew but interpreted illegibly. <br />
<br />
So...excuse my skepticism. I'm not saying that Holy men can't be homosexuals, not at all. I'm not even saying that God hates homosexuals. And I appreciate you trying to cheer me up.

And again Konrad, I am very happy for you. If you EVER want to talk...I'm still here as a friend. You are a very good friend and I'm honored to have you in my circle. You are an honest person who has struggles and your own problems in daily living. I'm still here for you.

Konrad, I am happy for you. I went the christian path years ago. And after learning Hebrew, I quit with a 3.75gpa in a biblical college. I'm not trying to confuse you...I'm just asking questions. Maybe god isn't christian, or catholic, or muslim, or buddist, etc. Maybe the god we all know is just a god. I for one, believe in the goddess. I can't wrap my mind around what the book (bible) says about homosexuality and many other contradictions. Your god made all of us (by your belief) and he doesn't make mistakes (also your belief). I believe that I was made EXACTLY the way I am and I had to experience certain events on my life to become who I am now. Why would a god make us gay and then condemn us for it? We were born gay. One just doesn't wake up one day and say, "I think I'm gonna start sucken **** today". That just doesn't happen. Again, I am happy for you that you found a faith and a belief that you are comfortable with. I honestly hope you receive all the blessings you ask for. You are worth every one of them. Just remain open minded and enjoy your path.

You do put it rather well... :) And, in that light, you're totally correct. You don't actually "help" whom you fall in love with... It just happens. <br />
But, God doesn't 'appreciate' homosexuality. In fact, He is against it. But, He does forgive you, and that is how you were saved... I suppose I just re-said everything you said in your story, my bad! :0

i haven't asked what sin the accuser has kept doing, but i would guess i would get a response saying that at least they are in the process of trying to give it up, whereas i am being "defiant" and refusing to even try. <br />
<br />
which, to be fair, i am. i guess i don't feel it is something worth giving up, or even if i am supposed to give it up, like you said.<br />
<br />
i find that especially with this "issue" everyone has an answer. not many people are willing to ask questions which are genuine... only questions which will bring them to their set resolution or answer. <br />
<br />
thanks for your words!

Oh please, don't make me type out why I believe homosexuality won't keep me out of heaven, just read my previous comments in this post. :P<br />
<br />
I would respond maybe I don't want to do "all things". Maybe I don't want to even do "those things that others believe is difficult yet worth it". Worth it to who? I'd be in shambles. I'd hate living. How is that 'worth it'?<br />
<br />
It's so easy to run up to me and tell me to give up my happiness in the name of God. My accuser will never understand the deep, torturous chasm of hurt and isolation I'd commit suicide over if I was separated from someone I loved with my whole soul (my fiance). I would self-destruct. <br />
<br />
Of course that's a personal response. I don't know your situation, but I'd ask what sin they have that they can't seem to stop running back to and why haven't they given it up.

i am amazed by your testimony, i struggle with the same feelings. like you i have felt God' presence and heard Him say that He loves me; like you I take God joyfully and seriously. <br />
Just to clarify your views, you believe that homosexuality is a sin, but will not keep you out of heaven? <br />
how do you respond to the people who pull the "i can do all things by He who strengthens me" card? I've had the experience of a person stating that I am weak for continuing to sin. They stated that not sinning would be hard, incredibly difficult, but worth it in the end as I would be following God's commands and more in line with His plan. <br />
how would you respond to this? i am not trying to criticize you, but since we seem to have similar struggles and perspectives i would love to get your views.

dang<br />
<br />
did i say burn?<br />
<br />
i ment burnING!!! lol<br />
<br />
you go konrad!!! lol :P

:P I'm sorry, but when people think I'm closed minded because I actually research, study, devote my time and most of my Sunday to something I believe in I get really pissed off. I didn't study world religion in college to be called stupid by people who's primary agenda is to treat people who believe in the Bible like second-class citizens.<br />
<br />
If you don't believe what I believe, that's fine, but don't preach to me about being close-minded when you insult me over something that's just as much as my identity as being homosexual.

ooooo<br />
<br />
burned!!! lol :P

Um, sorry maraki. I didn't know being open-minded meant pleasing everyone, especially you.

I'm a bit dissapointed,no offence...reading most of ur stories gave me the impression ur an open minded person.If I were you,I wouldn't give a **** about the bible.I'd just try to be happy at last...

I never said I wouldn't pay for it intrepidtraveler. I never said it would come without consequences, or that it'd be okay. I just know it won't keep me out of Heaven.

I want to know when "LOVE" can ever be wrong????<br />
I think love is the strongest thing on this earth....<br />
Without it, what would we have? Continue to be to loving person you are...

If you take Hebrews in that context you are saying that Jesus didn't die for sinners. You're throwing away grace completely. People who are alcoholics who can't and won't stop drinking will go to hell under that context. The same as people with destructive impulses. I do believe I'll be judged for living in sin, but I don't believe that it doesn't make me saved or that homosexuality will keep me out of heaven. <br />
<br />
It causes me great pain that I'm a homosexual, but I know I'll never stop being gay or that I'll ever stop loving my fiance. I'll never have the strength to walk away from my only reason to live. I am sorry things had to be this way, but there is no other choice. I can't help myself. I feel guilt but I know I'll never stop. If anything I'm honest and I won't say, "yes, I'm repentant" because I know the end result will be me and my fiance until one of us dies. Perhaps you're perfectly fine with me being celibate, tortured, and suicidal for the rest of my excruciating life, but I'm not. <br />
<br />
As I mentioned before, the only unforgivable sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ as my savior. I know Jesus died for me and all sin is covered, especially mine. God does not count sin against us but sin is in itself destructive and hurtful, which is why I know I'll ultimately suffer from my "life of sin" but to say I can't be a Christian doesn't fit. Many Christians have a sin they "repent" and go back to. Everyone is an offender under Hebrews 10:26-27.

You've probably realised by now Konrad m'dear that I'm not big on religion, however being raised Catholic has given me a better understanding of it than I let on a lot of the time. <br />
I won't get into the argument of whether homosexuality is a sin or not because you've made it very clear that you believe it is, I doubt my disagreement would make much of a dent in that belief. However, to me, the one consistent theme throughout the bible is love, for God and one another and that is something which I have seen you demonstrate time and time again. <br />
You're a good person, a good friend, a good christian and you'll make a fantastic husband.

First off Minion, I'm not going to slam you or be a jerk about your beliefs because I can see why you think what you do. But take into consideration my response.<br />
<br />
I suppose if someone died without repenting their sin they would go to Hell? Because if Jesus doesn't cover unrepented sin, then that means we have to make sure we're 100% okay with God before we die or we're screwed. That is not scripture. Scripture says that we can't work our way into heaven.<br />
<br />
I'm not arguing that homosexuality is a sin. But I am arguing that homosexuality is no different a sin than any other, and that it is included in the sins that Jesus died for. If you want to argue that being saved means being perfectly aligned with God, I would like to know if Solomon was saved or is now burning in Hell. (Read up on the end of his life, he was clearly not following God.) <br />
<br />
I don't manipulate God to my standards or to my wishes and ideals, which is what I feel you're implying when you mention a "get out of jail free" card. I know what I'm doing is wrong, but there are a thousand other people who have sin that they do is wrong and it's not keeping them out of heaven because they're saved. I'm sure you even have a certain sin that you will never let go of throughout your entire life.<br />
<br />
The Bible is very clear when in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, and whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life." It doesn't say "everyone but homosexuals". Or "everyone who tries their hardest to live the Christian life". (Although that is certainly how Christians should be living.) <br />
<br />
If you say that Christians don't sin or always turn away from their sin you haven't dipped into the ugly side of humanity. They are just as saved as I am, and just as desperate for a savior as me.

Ha ha ha, Tyrrmack makes me want to sin. ;)

I think it is ok if you're gay, as long as you don't eat shell fish.<br />
<br />
Enjoy your life.

Well I respect you Tyrrmack, and I understand where you're coming from. You've always been a good friend to me.

I have the same belief about we all sin as you do K. I also think that man can mess up every single thing we do. Yes, God could make us translate the Bible perfectly, but just the same, he could have made us perfect. I do think we aspire to be the most perfect being we can be, but we are not. Love you all.

I believe in the Christian God, and I believe that he is who he claims to be. I also believe that he is powerful enough to preserve his word. If God used men to achieve impossible and wonderful things I fully believe he can use men to write his book.

Listen, I've look it up. I would love to believe that me being gay is okay with God, but I know it isn't. Obviously that doesn't keep Him from loving me. It never stopped Jesus from loving homosexuals either.<br />
<br />
If you know the story about Jesus healing the Roman Centurion's servant, it reads in the original Greek "pais" meaning homosexual lover. So I know God doesn't always begrudge people for their faults and sins. I know He acts in love.

HUG