Post

The Dead Of Civilization Love Is The Answer

One of my friends wrote on my whiteboard.

Fo2los said:

How are you my friend , sorry for not talking to you a lot , i had exams , how are your articles in the journal ? and want you to talk about how can a person rise a civilization again after it's death , i want to read your opinion about that.



My answer is:

My work is going very good now. Thank you.
Your question is a very difficult and complex one.


First I decided to let it go. I thought I won’t able to express myself fully and even if I will try to do so it would be difficult to understand, from where I am coming from. But I was already on. I kept thinking and thinking. It was pounding me all over and over again. I was eating - I was thinking. I was going sleep - I was thinking. I went shopping - I was thinking. I had to start to write, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to rest my mind. I wrote it down once. I erased it. It was too long and too philosophical. I started over. It was the same. No good. I was caught up in my thoughts and it was not clear. There was nothing there what I would think is artistic. It was too much and too complicated. I deleted all again.

But all the time I kept in mind that you are Egyptian and the people of Egypt with their struggle for a free and democratic society. These thoughts forced me to write. I decided to repeat myself as many times as possible in order to achieve clarity. I hope that it will help, in some way, to bring peace and stability to the region. It is still not good. I don’t like the way I wrote that but I like what is inside and I am glad that I was able to say that. Please keep reading to the end. It seems to be boring but I can’t help it.

Civilization - an advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.

Is this civilization dead?
Which civilization is dead? Civilization as all or a particular one?

If I wouldn't know you, I would think that you are asking generally, about our civilization as human civilization.
Let’s focus on this way of understanding this first.

In order to give answers for that, we will have to establish what we mean by a dead civilization and next, based on that, we have to try to prove that human civilization is dead. But in, the most simple terms, If it would be dead in a sense as there is no more advanced state of development I guess we wouldn't be able to talk now and have a free exchange of thoughts.

But I understand that you are using this term symbolically. My understanding of your symbolism would be as follow - You claim that all civilization is dead, because there are some disturbing issues and practices in our civilization, which are deeply touching you and make you think that way. To be certain about that we will have to establish a process of verification, if what you think is based on reality as we see it. We will have to take any issue or practice and check if it is indication of death or end or destruction of our civilization. To make sure about that, we will have to for example take one practice and ask. Ask many members or the best of all of our human civilization, if they really think what you suggest.

It could be very difficult to verify if your suggestion is true or not. Because we have so many cultures and traditions on this planet. We can have some trend of thinking if we would do some statistic research We could find out for example, that most of the humans think that way. Think that our civilization is dead. Death means end. But I am sure even if we will have positive outcome, positive in that way that most of humans will think that it is dead for sure some of them will think it is not.  And for these few it would be alive or something else but not dead. Only in Communism 100 % people thought that First Secretary of the party is the best one and should be chosen for the next term.

In my opinion, in order to know the truth we should know all the views and respect all of them and take care about them and this is very, very important. Anyway, even if most the people would think that our civilization is dead still we will live in it with all these problems inside.

However what is important to notice here is fact that if we will do all the way I suggested. I mean – check what really people think and respect all the views. It will mean that the basic of living society, which is democracy in my opinion, would be respected. And that I think is what makes every civilization alive.

DEMOCRACY!

No matter how different you are. No matter if you are women or man, or gay or lesbian, black or white or of any colour or doing even the most strange things (strange for us, who are not doing them) like those you can find here on EP. No matter what you do, if that doesn’t harm others you have the same rights like all people. Everybody should have rights to live on this planet and feel free if his freedom don’t cause harm to others. Like according the rule – “My freedom stop where yours start”.

Well, you can say that if somebody is doing poop to the cup and next eat that and you see that this cause harm to you. But you don’t have to watch that and nobody will force you to do that.

If we will respect democracy fully I am sure our civilization has all the rights to feel alive. Do we respect democracy fully? They are all different views on that. But so far all of it functions and is going ahead. As Winston Churchill said – “Democracy is not the best, but the best what we have.”

The most interesting thing for me, was to learn that some sources were suggesting that one of the greatest politician, thinker and strategist of 20 century Winston Churchill was suffering on mental illness. Maniac depression or bipolar disorder.

See, at one point of our history, mental diseases was considered as sign of evil or people who have them where seen that way. They were stigmatized and people thought that they were touched by Satan or they were possessed. By the way the same was with witches. Most of the time these people was taken out of society and put in closed facilities, where they were suffering terribly. Today this changed, but still situation is not perfect. However what I am trying to say, Churchill by his example as well as Abraham Lincoln (battling clinical depression all his life) proves that everybody on this planet deserves a chance and can show their greatness. And this is the right that the democracy gives in the best way. Everybody should be included into it, even the smallest minority, and taken care of. For example, Canada with many, many terrible mistakes in the past is trying to deliver that rule as best as it is possible.

If would wish to know, where I stand with my views. I can tell you.

My thinking it totally, totally free I will describe that with the use of two terms which to explain it are close by. It is not precise, but it is as close as I can think of the idea of being free. I will say that the way how I think is so free like it is almost anarchistic or communistic. I mean, whatever best you can get out of these two philosophies, it will represent the way how I think. Free as much as it can be. No rules and for all and equally for all. However my way of talking and presenting my views is very, very liberal. The way how I talk, it sounds like I accept all and I am open for everything. But my actions are extremely conservative with one exception, my personal intimate life where I am regular but very, very open. Other than that, I hate any changes in my life. I like all as it is and I don’t want changes - again I am talking only about my life.

Back to the topic. If democracy would be fully respected in our world … “fully” - meaning, rights of all would be respected and all were given chance to express themselves equally and all were given all the same opportunities and we will let all to live the way as they want to and this way will not harming other… I would say that this civilization is fully alive and in total bloom. Is it the case now? I can’t say definitely because I have no full research data on that. I will say as far I as know it is bad, but not that bad. I know as well that there are many, many examples all over the world that democracy is not respected. I know about huge power struggle between all the different worldly forces hungry for dominance. This fight knows no mercy and has not much to do with basic human rights or concern about regular people. But it was that way as long as we can look back into the history of our civilization and I guess it will always be. We see wars, killings and injustice on every day basis, at every moment, all over the world. Still, we wake up in the morning and go along with our life. What else can we do? I have no idea.

I am just a writer and a thinker. I am not in a position to do anything more. It is not my call. I don’t feel like a politician or leader or change maker. I will not call for any changes unless I could be sure that it will be for better. But how I can be sure about that?

I am just trying to live as best as I can. I am sharing my thoughts with others and I hope I make them think. Nothing more. I am not in power and I don’t feel like it and it is not my mission to do anything more than that. My mission is to share my thoughts and help as many as I can on my narrow path. It can be one person or two or maybe it may be nobody but I will try. That is it. And I believe that most of the people are the same way.

There is one shocking fact which I learn about civilization we live in. I was trying to write some articles, back in Poland during my work as journalist, about human trafficking. It happened, because I was deeply touched by the situation of women and kids who were smuggled to other countries for prostitution and other abuse. Studying this subject, I have learnt that the price of person life is $2000 on the mafia market. You can pay this amount and almost anybody can be liquidated. Gone, and nobody will know when and why. Just one day, somebody could vanish with no any signs and nobody will even notice that it was a paid killing.

Still, all those you see around you are safe and sound.

I would like to point that right now that the death of civilization can be perceived in many different ways by different groups or even different people. I was confronted with combination of the terms like dead and civilization first time from teachings of the beloved John Paul II. He used this terms in his works but he phrased it differently. He claims, that we are living in  a culture of dead.

As it is written in one of the articles about him – “In place of a culture of death, John Paul II has called for a civilization of love, a culture of life. He called to the married couples to accept children willingly as the full expression of their mutual gift of love. He called to the the healthy to care for the weak and the sick, protecting the human life from the conception to the natural death. He called to the leaders of the nations to dialogue about their differences instead of resorting to the violence of the war. He challenged wealthy nations to turn from the empty consumerism and self-indulgence and to help those of the poor south.”

“Pope John Paul II taught insistently that our dignity is rooted in our ability to love, to give freely and generously from ourselves. Despite all the evil that he has seen—and that our world has seen—he believes it is still possible for us to experience this love, because God gave it to us first in Jesus Christ.”

As you know probably, John Paul II completely sacrificed his life to change the world for the better and yet we still have this situation. But I am sure that his approach and the building of the civilization of love is the right one. Anyway different peoples, different approaches. And again for leaders from different parts of our life, the danger for our civilization lays in different places. For John Paul II the right of protecting life from moment of conception till natural death was one of the most important. Protecting it was the base, for him, for building the civilization of love and, for sure, a living one.

Now we are touching a very sensitive issue, the issue of abortion. Honestly, it is not the best topic for politicians. It is a very dividing problem. I think everybody should have the right to chose and to live with the consequences. I am sure it is the deepest wound for every mother and it never goes away. I think as well, that everybody has rights to protest it. But in my opinion, no woman should be stigmatized after she has done that. She already has enough to bear after such an act and should be treated with love, care and compassion. I will give some thoughts for the fathers of the unborn, because I never hear enough about that. For man too, most of the time it is a horrible decision to live with.

In many situations, an unwanted pregnancy is the result of a poor sex education. I will focus here on the youngest generation. Simplifying: boys always want to do it and when it happened they run away. Philosophy is generally always the same: if you love me you will do it for me. It takes a little time to do it and a whole life to pay for it. There is no way to stop young ones from doing it unless they will get the right education and example at home. One of my teachers, priest Szarkowski has taught me – “if you want to have a success in educating the youngest - school, home and society as well as the religious group have to speak in the same voice.” Right education is the best way to reduce the unwanted pregnancy issue.

On the other side, I found on EP some groups like: “I want another man to get me pregnant not my husband” or “I want to get pregnant by a gang bang“. You never know for sure, what the best is.

What we know by now?

Firstlywe don’t know what you mean by “dead civilization”.

Secondly: we don’t know, if you mean civilization as at all or a particular civilization.

Thirdly: using my logic we find out, that would be difficult to prove, that that this civilization, or any civilization at all is dead. Even if one or two people will think that is alive, it will be alive for them. We can’t generalize.

Fourthly: we claim, that if democracy is fully respected then any civilization has the best potential to feel alive. When you have the conditions to feel free and you feel free, you are able to advance the most in your development in many areas. The Democracy creates complex political and social institutions as well.

Fifthly: we understand, that we can think that civilization is dead because we have concerns, but not much can be done to change that. Even John Paul II, who did a lot to change the world for better, at the end of the day didn’t fix it all. Even Jesus or any other great One couldn’t do that. Always there will be something. As well, we can always claim, that because of something our civilization is dead and there are a lot of reasons to say that.

Sixthly: we understand, that for different people there will be different reasons to think that the civilization is dead. Each one can see different dangers and callings which should be taken care of in order to keep our civilization alive.

Seventhly: we learn a lot about my views what your primary objective was.

Finally, I will say that they are ways of fixing things when they are broken. Again, it is based on democracy.

In the beginning, we have to find out what is wrong and make us think that civilization is dead. Even if this will have nothing to do with definition of the civilization. For example, some will think that it is dead because of the immoral behaviour other because of the global powers controlling the world. There can also be a situation that some of the individuals will think, that civilization is alive and the others will be OK if is dead – it will not bother them.

However when we find what makes us think that way, we can look for solutions. We will have to find the ways, how to fix all the problems and for that job, we will have to employ the best and the brightest minds in every civilization. Well, we will have to establish an honest and independent process, how to choose the right people.

After that, when solutions will be found, we have to discuss them with all the members of the civilization and be the most inclusive in doing so.

After the discussions, we have to implement all the necessary corrections to the way of how we are going to correct things.

In the end, we have to put into life all the solutions and monitor how they will work in real time and be very flexible, when problems appear and again, correct things based on suggestions from as many as possible if not all.

Life of civilization is constant construction in process and if we want be successful all who wants should take a part in that.

We have to remember as well, that every civilization is built on individuals. If we can’t do much on the bigger stage to provide the change for the better for sure we can do it in our own world. We can improve ourselves. My advice is - learn to love yourself first. Learn - to love – yourself - first. If you can’t love yourself, you can’t love others. If you will love yourself, you will find out after while that you have to love others as well. Why? Because everything is happening in your mind, in your head.

You are surrounded by others and you have to live around them. You and others exist solely in your head where you perceive everything. If you will hate others those, who are appearing in your head it is almost like you will hate yourself. The hatred is in your head and I believe it will destroy you sooner or later.

Hating yourself and loving others. I believe it is not possible. What kind of love you can give to them if there is only hatred within you. One part of you will love and the other part will hate? You will have to have two thoughts at the same time and we know from psychology you can have only one thought at a time.

Then, loving yourself first and loving others is next because this is still you. They appear in your head. If you love them, you love yourself as well.

Hating yourself and hating others is very possible. I believe it is a way of living hell on earth. The choice is yours. Simple - the mission is to learn to love yourself and learning to love others which is still learning to love yourself.

I understand perfectly, that my views are in most parts are very utopian. Why? Because I would like to make everybody happy which is impossible. Nobody did so far and always there will be somebody left behind. But we should try to our best knowledge to create a system which will include all.

Karl Marx I think he was a great philosopher and his teachings came to life because of his concerns for others. Problems began from the moment, when they started to be implemented in the real life and nobody really bothered about how they worked. They really didn’t work and the later attempt to fix the problems didn’t do much good. I hope these horrible mistakes won't happen again.

In the end, I would like to focus on Egypt. I had a chance to talk to some people from your country. I have some, but very little understanding of situation there. I think that the most important is to avoid any further killings and violence. My opinion is simple. If we are building a future society for all the Egyptians, first and the most important is to make sure that everybody will get there safely. You can’t build a future society for all and keep killing these for whom you are building it for. Then first rule and first step of building a society for all, is avoiding any violence. This will insure that this is really a process you look for, not just words. The society for all and the democracy will start from the moment when all the killing will stop.

There is a great example to investigate of how a change can be performed, with minimum cost of life lost, during the transition from one system to another.  Check the Solidarity movement in Poland in 1980. The Wisdom of Polish Pope John Paul II, Polish church and Polish workers, brought a powerful communism system to its end in the whole old Europe, with almost no bloodshed.

I am not sure if this is that what you were asking me about. However this is my answer. I think high pathetical conversation about what to do when civilization would die has not much value. I am focusing on now. No matter what will happen I still think my rules are good once.

Thank you for asking and good luck.

     
Bolek Bolek 41-45, M 19 Responses Nov 15, 2012

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Great assessment by the way. I think you have evaluated state of civilization (in matters of advancement initially attributed) through political system. It is logical to instinctively do so since an individual pursuit of happiness cannot healthily be sought without considering the general. My opinion though, as it has been in my exposition is that we are far from death.. not because there is consistent advancement but because we are in the midst of chaos were aftermath are often sources of solutions. I'm talking in terms sociological conditions composed of individuals struggling towards enlightenment. The seed of society is every human. If we are to believe that one is behaviorally perturbed.. clinically considered to be ill, then we are headed towards growing irreversible tumors. The impact of experience passed on from one to another will either deliver death or realization of a maturing civilization. Your practical association is of relevance which I gear away from as necessary. The argument on such is often irresolute. So my approach has always been sociological. Thanks for this article!

Thank you for sharing your opinions with me.
Thank you as well for letting me learn new words and meanings.
I am glad that you agree with me.
I believe that we are developing already towards better future for all.

Indeed..there's an absolution if we become conscious of others..

I am glad we share the same views.

Huh

Thank you for reading it.
I would love to talk more with you.
It is 4 am in Toronto. I am dead.
Going sleep.
I will send you message today.

isn't death synonymous with rebirth. This is a story about the death of society but you talk about you utopia or rebirth of the society if you will. Some early writings describe rebirth as 'redeath'. Desire perpetuates life, which is synonymous with suffering, and which leads to death. I love your utopia and how you bring up both love and hate. They are both energies that can effect a persons body and soul....choose wisely!

Please look for reply on my page.
Look for the story named "I" will never die.

Thought provoking and wonderfully written. Thanks for the mention of the Christian teachings of love first. More should remember this and maybe this will be a better place to live. In my family there is a saying that comes to my mind when someone does something evil or bad - Love the person. Hate the deed. I try to do that more often than not. Glad to see that is not just a Christian thing too. :) Thanks for the share and the food for thought!
Hugs and God Bless you my sweet friend!
Martha

I think this feeling is universal but for sure Love is foundation of Christianity.
I think everybody knows but so few follow.
Thank you.

I'm sorry I haven't written in awhile. Nothing is happening in my life-I'm just behind in writing people. This is a very deep and thoughtful writing. I'll read it over again (and maybe more than once!). It's true that people are all so very different; the majority can think one thing is correct, but there is always going to be a few that think differently. I myself have love for everyone (even the man that almost killed me), but I don't believe love is the answer. I have love for everyone, and I know that there are many, many people who think like me, but there are also people that don't understand love. Maybe the answer is respect. I also really enjoy having contact with a varied group of people-like before my wreck I "hung out"with what could be called "the fast crowd". No, I didn't do drugs (besides nicotine and alcohol), didn't have lots of sex with many different guys (and girls)-I just "observed". My thing was just to get very well dressed (my fashion addiction) and then go somewhere (a nightclub or a party) and just observe. That's also why I'm so glad to have found EP. Some of my friends on here are really "out there", but I can accept it all-I'm just not that way myself, but if they are, then so be it. I just don't accept the old perverts. I'm also very glad to have you as a friend because you actually THINK-so few people around me do that these days.

Yes we are all different and we have different views. I could respect you and disagree with you or I could love you and disagree with you. What would you prefer? And besides doesn't love has respect written in it ? Yes I think many people don't know how to love but still I wouldn't judge them. Thank you for your comment.

Beautiful. Impossible to love others if you hate yourself I feel. You are indeed an enlightened and wise soul....

Thank you for seeing me that way.
I hope one day.

Just as I sit here thinking less of myself , you write a masterpiece which causes me to look deep Inside about so many different issues... I have hated a couple of people in my life, never realizing that I was hating myself ..I thank you for pointing that out..and you are right.. It's toxic...." Be the change " comes to mind.
I don't mean for this to be an oral confession of my short-comings...

I just want to thank you for all of your wisdom and valuable most helpful thoughts..... You inspire me to be a better person ...

Peace, love and light ..

Many Hugs to you .

We are all learning and I learnt a lot from you too.
You are gentle and caring soul and thank you for that and all your support.
Peace, love and light.
More hugs.
Thank you.

good very philosophic

Thank you.
I am so happy that you like it.

You are a very in depth person.........I agree with main topic, that civilization isn't dead, but it is different for every person.
Everyone has a different perception of life.
I am with you on a personal level, I hate change, I used to fear it, but now I try to cope with it. Maybe not so well but have accepted its a fact of life.
I also agree that hatred will destroy ones self, it takes alot of effort to maintain hatred, which eventually destroys the inner self.
You do make me really think on a different level with your stories, I thank you for that :)

My pleasure.
I am glad that you like it.
Thank you for your thoughts on this one.

I am with you all the way..
I don't think civilization is dead.. But I think we can create societies in which no one is happy.. A society should strive to let the people in it to be the best they can. Let people show their fully potentiel.. and of course love.. But you are right - that would be utopia.. there is a long way.. It is not the end, only the beginning..

Thank you. I am with you all the time.

Your stories always inspire me to love myself and others Peter:)) thank u so much<3

Goodbls u more.

Wow. That is amazing.
Thank you.

Wow Peter love this one your amazing you bring so much joy and pleasure into my life >>
So true about loving yourself to be able to love others.. As well respect yourself to be respected >>> Lot's to think about >>>

Thank you.
My pleasure as always.

Beautifully written as always Peter. Once again you have made me ponder about the world around me. Thank you. xoxo

My pleasure.
Always.
All for you.
Thank you.

Bolek, I LOVE reading your stories! I have learned much from you my friend! Thanks!

Wonderful.
Thank you my friend.

Thank you my friend about all your concerning , even if you didn't answer my question in the way i want , i appreciate that you tried to answer my question and worked hard for it , actually i'm sorry that i made you think all that time , i didn't mean that .second , what i meant by did civilization when it's people don't care about heir history, their language and different culture invade their thoughts.i guess if we want to build a dead civilization again and that us possible of course , we have to care about the most important thing and without it is impossible but by it we can achieve greatness and it's moral ( Ethics ) without it the country or the civilization even if it's developed and great in science will end fade away and fall. i's the main thing to rise any civilization then caring about science . Because the ethics (moral ) is so important it was the main reason or the main thing in Al islam , Al islam came to promote people's moral and every side of al islam religion like praying and going to mecca ( al haj) is to promote people's moral.


i hope you understood my Point and your story benefited me a lot . THANK YOU

Yes it was difficult, tough but after when it is done I can say I enjoy every second of doing it. Ethics and morals are extremely important. However imposing all the same morals for everybody it would be very unmoral in my opinion.
Thank you my friend for your kind words it is a pleasure to discuss this topic with you.
May God and All keep us safe and in peace.
As long as we can talk like human of civilized world all is possible and alive I believe.
Take care.
I saw your pictures in your profile I think you are scientist yourself which is great.Science and morals it is another huge topic or what is more important science or morals or if these two things have to exist in opposition. However I believe that you would prefer that I will have some regular sleep hours at least for now.

Sleep well my friend :) , good night

beautifully written

Thank you.

This is such a challenge for me to finish reading this one but I did.
I think, what I understand the word "dead civilization" is dead culture for examples:

Dead language
Dead ancient beliefs and practices
Destrcution of ancient buildings
but most of all are mixed blooded or unknown roots

Thanks for this post Peter!!!

Thank you for reading it.
Yes each of us can see things and understand it differently and this is great.
Again - yes, all what you said is important and should be take care for and everybody should have a chance to make his own choices.
Thank you.

Civilization has so many different meanings to cover, but I wouldn't say it was dead. Changing, yes.
Love me before others you say? I think not, I tend to love others, but not me so much.

Fill yourself with love to others and see how beautiful you are.
Yes is changing all the time. I believe for better.

Yes for the better.

Great.
Please stay in touch.

Civilization is dead. When all factors that actually were part of it,had died out in age. Now,that involves everything, from tangible and intangible. This can never be revived, once it has died but yes if it is dying and not yet dead, there is a possibility for its revival. Anyone person can lead for a new civilization by building values on historic or culture, but can not bring it alive.

I am much more optimistic.
I think we are doing pretty good.
I believe it will be even better.