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Who Believes the Self-confessed Sociopath?

I don't believe half the people who claim to be sociopaths. I will admit that all who claim that (especially using their real identities) are certainly screwed up individuals. Why should you believe me that I am? Who cares? Just read. The labels really don't matter. Narcissist? Psychopath? Sociopath? Borderline? Who really cares? I just want to brag about who I am since I like what I am. I feel unrestricted and I feel at an advantage despite my phases of misery and depression. I am not devoid of conscience. It's just off from time to time.

What I can tell you about me is that I cannot put myself in others' shoes. I never feel bad about anything I do: For me to have taken an action in the first place means that I had justified in my mind why I would do it. Why feel bad after? I also have no firm principles or beliefs that I can't get rid of. I am whatever you want me to be so long as it works to my benefit. I am not the compulsive liar but I will lie convincingly when it suits me and I use selective honesty like a seasoned professional all while staring you in the eye with most heart-warming sincerity. I don't cheat or deceive for financial gain since I don't need to. I'm a minimalist and anti-consumerist by nature. I live among a small population with no chance for easy relocation where reputation must be guarded with one's life. The only thing that motivates me to go on is power -- my relationship of dominance over others. Fame, notoriety, money, sex are all secondary objectives.

I am sadistic. A smile comes to my lips when I hear stories of others being hurt. I enjoy hurting others myself -- emotionally, physically, verbally. I am the guy in the cinema who can't help but laughing when all others cringe at the sight of suffering of some innocent before them. I enjoy fighting and I am a mean son of a ***** when I take to drinking. I will pick on even those who are stronger than me: bouncers, the police. I will tell them incredible things hoping to get the crap kicked out of me or to be tossed in a cell. It never happens though. I kick the crap out of others. Sometimes others kick the crap out of me. I am masochistic. I hurt myself at times too and it doesn't bother me. A little pain lets you know you are alive.

I would *never* tell another person face to face that I am one. Some clever folks have seen the red flags and two or three have dared to call me by that label. It terrifies me when people see through my charming behaviour to the core. I avoid them. I think about them constantly and how I should handle them since they are a threat to me, my identity and my place in my social milieu. I find that avoiding them is the easiest thing. Nobody should ever be allowed to see through the mask. It's difficult acting normal and it wears me out but there's a price to be paid for letting your guard down and revealing the soulless being inside.

When I first encountered the term "sociopath" I was naive enough to share my suspicions with my girlfriend at that time and it was stupid. How do you tell a girlfriend that you really are incapable of loving her? Obviously you shouldn't. Once I saw how the information was affecting her, I quickly had to go back on all that I said and convince her that my self-diagnosis was inaccurate and that the various checklist criteria didn't apply to me. You quickly lose the naivite of confessing who you are when you realise that this kind of honesty does more damage to your social relationships. People would rather not know that you are not like them and that you don't care for them or feel for them or that if you do you only care for them like the owner of a prized possession.

Both my parents died when I was young. I benefited from good parenting and a good education so I have a strong moral education as well and as I am self-sustained financially I don't hit anybody up for simple things like money. To ask people for money is simply beneath me. I abhor other anti-social individuals. There is no community among us as far as I am concerned and I want to hurt all the others who share my experience. I reserve a special hatred in the deep recesses of that vile beating blood pumping instrument of mine I call a heart for con-artists, gamblers and thieves.

As I said, I have a strong moral background and education but I believe in nothing. I wouldn't go so far as calling myself amoral but there's no belief I wouldn't sacrifice in the name of expediency. It matters not to me with which religion I identify publicly. I believe in no god. I don't really believe I am God but I sure do feel like it. I feel as if only my experiences matter and that I have a clear insight into the way things are to which no other man or woman is privy. With that said, yes, I have shoplifted and stolen and engaged in other criminal behaviour but mostly just to try out crime just to see if I could. I have never been convicted of any crime and as far as the world knows I am a respectable individual based on my profession. I have no deep seated criminal convictions and only do these things to see if I can get a kick out of them. The fun never returns if I do the same thing over and I find that I have to escalate the activity to re-experience the joy of doing something that you aren't supposed to do or to be somewhere where you shouldn't be.

The most difficult part of being who I am is that you can never share your experiences except anonymously and this here is not exactly anonymous since my information has been logged, timestamped and recorded. This is fairly harmless information though and works more as a kind of therapy for me. I am convinced of my own superiority and it's silent suffering never being able to share the greatness of your character with others. I feel sometimes as if I am separate from the species known as homo sapiens.

Do I use and discard people? Sure. There's a great forum with whiney pansies who dated jerks on MSN groups called PSYCHOPATH dedicated to helping them heal that refers to my behaviour as idealisation and devaluation. I participated for some time but they quickly discovered my lack of empathy and booted me out. No love lost. They were beginning to annoy me with all their sob stories and irresponsible behaviour. An example of their nonsense was that they blame psychopaths for *everything* -- for giving them sexually transmitted infections instead of simply practising safe sex with a condom, for example. Idiots. Having the knowledge that I use and discard people does not help me to control the behaviour. It's really just a manifestation of my boredom with others. Why should I waste my precious seconds of living being around you or listening to you if there is no utility in our exchanges?

Do I need people? Yes, I need people. Power is a relationship among people. To exercise power you need people. Do I enjoy compliments? It depends. They don't really matter that much since they re-affirm all that I know about myself but I do enjoy being adored. It means the person is in some way under my control. Do I like criticism? No, especially when it comes from morons with half-baked ideas.

Do I have emotions? I feel mostly rage, boredom and the brief epsiodes of sheer excitement -- the dopamine rush -- when through my own cleverness I have attained my ends. My other emotions are quite shallow and I find it difficult to communicate to others what I feel. I usually switch the topic when people ask me to describe in any detail how I feel.

People looking at my pictures will always fixate on my eyes. They can't quite pin down what's behind them. Some find them beautiful, penetrating. For the ones who say nothing and probably know what I am, I am sure they see only the emptiness inside them.

gewissenlos gewissenlos 26-30, M 142 Responses Jun 14, 2008

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You know, you really do sound like you might be a sociopath. I have my doubts about some of these self-proclaimed socios on this board.<br />
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However, some of what you say is contradictory! How can you guard your good reputation with your life, and then go out and pick bar fights? That makes no sense whatsoever!

he is just a bar bully looking for a fight ... nothing more .....dime a dozen

still hates mommy probably ...cant take it out on her, so he takes it out him self and others

I liked reading this. You are so right about the majority of self proclaimed sociopaths, I have made the comment myself a number of times. I'm pretty ambivalent about you as a person but I enjoyed your insight into your psyche.

I'm sure that I've heard the word on television or the like, but I had never heard in any context that interested me. I certainly notice when I hear or read it now. As I said, this is a very small rural community in the northwest, and good old folks just don't sit around and talk about such things. I have also consistently resisted becoming involved in any type of therapy or mental health situation. I have not been incarcerated. Why on earth would anyone say that word to me especially if they suspected that there might something "off" about me? The point is...no, I had not known what the word meant previous to meeting up with that date.

so as i understand..... u have just recently learned the nuts and bolts of the word....the dymnacics

Reply by gypsyblu Jan 14th, 2012 at 1:00PM <br />
you mean to tell us, you never heard the word in any type of conversation "sociopath' where you live.... hard to believe ! what do the people speak of .....weather? i get the impression there is very small pool of educated people where you live .......

not that u have to be highly educated to know the word

This is great, in the handful of years since I discovered what society at large apparently thinks I am, I'd focused on reading the "victims" accounts of sociopathy, and much information written in academic fashions. Until today I'd neglected to think that there might be others willing to chat about things. I will be coming by to read in the future. Living in a small rural community, and dropping out of college twice, I had never heard the term sociopath until I went on a blind date with a Psychologist. When she, after a few hours of exciting conversation told me that she believed me to be a sociopath, I couldn't wait to get home and start googling. She was flabbergasted that I took no offense when she explained at length what the term is thought to represent in people like me. It was though I had written a memoir and she was reading it back to me. That night changed my life. I had known that there was something different about me since my teen years, and over time I just assumed that for whatever reason, "That's just the way life is so you'd better learn how to deal with the situation and get the most out of it." For the first time I read accounts of others that admitted having the same thought processes and motivations as I do, and I'm at a loss to describe it. Normal people have no idea how strange it is to spend decades wondering why other people repeatedly make the same foolish and emotional decisions over and over and over again. My general consensus of regular people was that either I am far more superior to them in terms of intelligence, or that I am mentally handicapped and none would bother to confirm it to me. Now, after four years of learning and reading, I'm convinced that my "condition" is a combination of both. I do not think that I'm evil. I'm just different. When my wife tells me she loves me, I reciprocate, and even though I truly have no concept of what she's talking about...I need her, and I enjoy having her and her means at my disposal. That's the closest I can get to understanding what love is. I had always in the past referred to love as "mutual convenience." Well, I'm babbling. Imagine someone that is finally able to communicate with others about the REAL reasons that he does things. It's exciting stuff.

I mean I can be like that occasionally but I would'nt call myself a sociopath mainly because I can turn it off and on like a light switch I'm only like that when the time calls for it. There are the instances when I can't control it and I just go on spree hurting everyone and anyone. I also decieve but only to get what I want or need it was horrible when I was a kid. Knew too much as a kid most people think I'm older than I am. I do have a high tolerance for pain and a few times burned myself. Really don't mind blood or gore or any of that crap but I don't feel the need or want to hurt someone all the time they have to hurt me or if they are trying in order for me to get that point but there were a few moments I did have the need when I lose it and went through with it only to stop myself. But later i do regret it in the back of my head I know I don't though but I try to be feel like I do I care. I once tried to aplolgize for what I did but found myself laughing out loud in front of them. I hate scaring people I actually want in my life but I find myself not caring and enjoying it sometimes. I think I'm scared when I actually will stop caring then again Iknow in reality I don't care. I literally have to force myself to care it's gets worse as the days go by. Now I try to keep away from anyone because of some of the things I say. I use to be destructive for fun but as I got older I learned to tone it done for social reasons. My bf is a sociopath and my best friend is too apparently I keep them grounded they say I know it's rather I don't fall for the bs and know how to hurt them when they try me. Believe or not it's easy to hurt a sociopath well for me I mean my bf underestimates people as far as being smart and thinks nothing can touch him so I just play on it. Usually whatever of interest I **** up in retaliation and give as little attention or admiration possible drives them ******* crazy. I honestly don't think they know but anyways saying all that what does that make me?

YOU DONT HAVE TO BE CLEVER TO SEE A PERSON AS UR SELF............... YOU MAY NOT KNOW IT.....BUT PEOPLE SEE THROUGH IT ............ EVEN SO CALLED, REGULAR PEOPLE.........PEOPLE TALK YA KNOW, MAYBE NOT TO U...... but among them sevles they do

u seem like a bible thumper to me ....................ur moral back grd .. to use and abuse......

sounds very much like my mother father and brother very chilling most be in the genes.

yeah that's what i needed now i'm sure that i'm one

Sick dude. I think that i have APD, or some sort of narcasistic antisocial thing. Im 16 and wondering wtf i should do because i genuinly disregard and hate people. So far i gues ive been careless in that ive gotten in a shitload of fights and i have no idea what i am suppose to do with my pointless life. I assume i gues that you are more experienced. I abuse people lie and whatever. I am ahead of my class with IQ ahead of my peers. I feel a pointlessness now. Ive seen therapists but i disregard them after a few visits. I just end up lieing. I dont know what the point of life is. Ive done everything exciting so far. I have. I want to know what you are living for. What is your point. Gues if this was me i might find it slightly interesting to explain my success to an asspiring ... w/e. Not to be philosophical but am i just suppose to have more sex and steal more **** to make me happy.. cause im getting bored fast. I just want an idea of what i should aim for in this game. You ugly piece of ****. And im not a dumbass 16 year old. Ive been tested.

Do sociopaths enjoy music and art? If they do, is it the same way the people without this disorder (or perhaps gift depending on who you ask) enjoy it?

domig good question

There's nothing great being a sociopath. I became one because of lifelong traumatic experiences starting with being a kid. I pity others who claim they are one (last 2 boyfriends) and really they had such weak minds it drove me mad. I pitied them and loathed them for their weaknesses. So I played around with their emotions on a never ending emotional roller coaster and then dumped them. I guess maybe I felt they deserved it, I have no idea.<br />
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It isn't fun when I'm at work and a coworker points out to me that there's this look in my eye that makes him uncomfortable. What look? Hell if I know. Maybe he see's a predator even though I don't live as one or try to anyways.<br />
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I suppose it's easier to see around all the emotional stuff to the real truth that most people seem to not be able to get around which is nice to be able to do but not having any real emotion also means a real lack on the whole "human" experience. Like having an actual best friend or really caring about people. Putting forth a real effort to make and keep friends etc. I really don't care to put forth an effort for things like that. Although it is cool that my twin sister is also a sociopath so maybe that's why I don't? I don't know.<br />
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I try to live up to better ideals than just preying on people, besides that gets really boring. And always trying to live up to my own standards is a daily battle. Also, as a sociopath it is way more easier to pin point other sociopaths. Just take a look in their dead empty eyes, how they speak and handle emotional responses etc. <br />
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To be honest it sounds like you've read about sociopaths and maybe have a couple of things in common but really just aren't one. Or maybe you're like one of my previous boyfriends that claimed to be thus.

Sometimes, I, as a maybe-sociopath, point out those traits in others just to make them feel uncomfortable. I enjoyed hearing that you squirm. That said, when somebody does the same to me, I have much the same reaction.

Very interesting. I am 36 and just realized my brother is a sociopath. I am still not sure if he is a sociopath or a psychopath but I am leaning toward the sociopath even though he is extremely neat and organized with his stuff, so much that people have diagnosed him as being obsessively clean and net. He and I never got along and I always knew it was because I could see through his B.S. Of course I never knew it was a disorder of such a proportion. Now I realized that he didn't only try and often succeed to manipulate me but he also manipulated our parents into believing that i am the bad one and the cause of our animosity. When in fact I was the one always' wanted to help him out and bail him out of trouble. We haven't spoken for 8 years and he visited for five days. How quickly do the bad feeling come back, it is incredible. After he left I was looking up information on internet about how to deal with family member who is a pathological liar. In one of the links it was connected to Psychopathy and once I read the symptoms I knew without a doubt he was one. I suppose it gives me a certain peace of mind to know that I can never explain to him how he hurt me, can never win an argument and make him see the truth about his actions towards me. He knows the truth, of course, has always known it and I was always loosing my precious energy trying to bring it out and make him see it. What a waste. This has also helped me distance myself from my parents and their poisonous affect on me. They are not sociopaths but they have some tendencies, so really there is no need to spend any more time fighting it all. It is now time to move on and block them out completely without trying to make the family relationship work. And keep my kids away from all three of them at all cost. For a long time I was sad that my kids don't have a relationship with any of my family members. Now I know that it is for their own good and it is O.K. that they don't. I am at peace with it all now. Just as long as I stay away from all of them I will be fine. Thank you all for sharing.

You have had a sad experience, but you have done absolutely the right thing by protecting yourself and your family.

"I suppose it gives me a certain peace of mind to know that I can never explain to him how he hurt me, can never win an argument and make him see the truth about his actions towards me. He knows the truth, of course, has always known it "

It's like you took those words right from my mouth! My brother is a pathological liar, and has hurt my image with other family members. I tried to get him to finally own up a week ago, but he showed me his true colors. Now I can walk away and cut him off with absolutely no regrets. He doesn't love anyone, he just uses people. But my sisters haven't found that out yet. I did tell the one I was close to, what I did, and why I did it. I didn't want her to hear from him first!

I consider myself to be a textbook sociopath and can relate to a lot of what you have said here gewissenlos. To the above poster, yes and no. I maintain a very flimsy relationship with my family (I am 24). I come over to see my father and mother once every couple of months for about an hour. I start off with small talk and then try to get an idea of whether my uncles estate was sold. You see, my uncle had a multi million dollar mansion, and my parents are entitled to approx 7.5% of its net worth. I know I can get a lot of this money from them once they recieve it, and that is the only reason I maintain a relationship at all with them. I have five younger brothers and a sister, I barely say a word to them the entire time im there. They have no value to me. I have never given any of my family members a present, or a birthday card/whatever. Would I care if they die? No. Would I cry? Definitely not. The only thing I would be concerned about is how much the funeral would cost; I would endeavour to make it as cheap for me as possible.<br />
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This sounds monstrous, and it is. I know this because of the reactions you get from people when you tell them the 'truth'; your opinions, your thoughts. The problem is that you don't realise you are a sociopath until damage has been done. It is a learning process; it takes time to understand that you are different from other people. By then it is hard to cover up who you are from those people, you really do have to start fresh.I think my family just used to think I was an arsehole, but they have started to find out information about me because of my carelessness. My family already knows a little too much about me: they know that I changed my name completely (not because I told them, but because they were snooping around in my car and found my CV - never trust anyone). They know that one of my degrees is very different to what I had told them, and changed professions a long time ago. <br />
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As for James Munroe, I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I am not a criminal. I do not have a criminal record. Not all sociopaths feel the need to kill, rape, steal etc because there are other ways to gratify yourself. I, for example, used to work in insolvency.<br />
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Being an insolvency accountant is one of the best jobs for a sociopath because you have all the power, you own all the rules, and your clients will do anything you say. I ripped off so many people in my first year I was promoted twice. I did things which I am too cautious to post here, but I will say that company records may have been deleted. I may have stolen company property. I may have sabotaged my co-workers work (who thought I was their best friend), 'fr<x>amed' other workers in the office, and taken bribes to stop a garnishee order being put through. I was never accused of any of this (if it hypothetically happened): no one ever knew. The only thing I didn't like was the accountablity; I ****** up so many things that it was only a matter of time before I had to get out otherwise I would have been caught and summarily fired. Too many loose strings create a complex web of lies (which I like), but one slip or unfortunate turn of events and you are done. This is I guess why sociopaths cannot hold a steady job; they have to keep moving to remain undetected. In my new job, I move to a completely different institution every year, which is perfect. <br />
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Do I enjoy being who I am? Absolutely. Sometimes I get lonely, especially when in a crowd. You see everyone smiling and laughing, and you wonder how they can keep it up for so long, and do it so easily. I think that is the only bad thing though, knowing that you are truly alone, you are a monster, and the only way you can truly be yourself is to post anonymously on forums. Everywhere else, you need to put on the act, and it drains you. <br />
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That being said, im 24, drive a high performance sports car, tall, dark, handsome, have an easy, comfortable, well paying job and an active lifestyle. People say if you're in a relationship with a sociopath, get out: they will use you. And that is where I feel people are wrong. 'Love' (and no, I don't believe in love, I believe in lust and hormonal urges) is said to be give and take. My gf's (I try to maintain two) give me what I want (money, status, sexual outlet, cover) and I give them what they want ( stable bf, convertible, nice house, weekend experiences etc). When I want to end a relationship, I just make them not want me anymore. This usually involves me acting goofy, wearing ugly clothes, not looking after myself for about a couple of weeks. Because I only really date attractive women, they usually move on and everyones happy - they don't know it but they are just as superficial as I am.<br />
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Truth is, the world is ugly. Society is disgusting. We monsters are just better suited to taking advantage of it.

" I start off with small talk and then try to get an idea of whether my uncles estate was sold. "

He's telling you all you need to know about a sociopath.

"I am not a criminal" and "I may have stolen company property" and "and taken bribes"

Typical of a sociopath's split mind - saying he's not a criminal, but then listing his crimes.

There's no "may have committed" here, we all know that. All he needs to do is maintain plausible

deniability, and he's scott-free! It's people like you who have damaged the US economy by

crashing the banking system with unethical practices. And many in government are doing the same

thing. I believe you when you say you are a sociopath!! Self-awareness doesn't lead to different

results, so don't be fooled.

@gewissenlos or anyone who think they're sociopath.<br />
I wonder about your relationship with your family, what do you feel about them, do you care i they're dead? would you cry if any of them dead?

Yeah.<br />
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I feel like I've totally dated you.<br />
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I wish people like you came with a neon sign saying "I will ruin you" so we don't get sucked in.<br />
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However, I do commend your honesty. You will never change. You see no need to. Everyone here trying to sell the benefits of empathy to you is wasting their time. You are a lost cause.

NEVER, EVER TRUST A SOCIOPATH! Even if they sound like nice, polite, self-aware, reasonable people. This is just their cover.

God im messed up. I find it strangely appealing.<br />
At least id understand his motives....

This is a very interesting thread and I have read most of it with a great deal of interest due to a terrible experience I am still enduring at the hands of a sociopath. I want to know when do they give up? Do they ever give up? Do i need to move house/job etc in order to get rid of him.. and also why does he have such a bizarre affect on me? A part of me enjoys his games and I even take part in them when I am that way inclined. I want rid of him but I know also I will miss him. I may be totally head f*cked for life. He has scarred me. Advice please would be very much appreciated. Is this normal?

NO CONTACT - the only successful strategy. They like messing with you, so don't let them!

wow you are so cool I want to be your bestest friend and do your ironing and tell you how wonderful you are allllllll dayyyyyy longggggg! <br />
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Hahahaha, joking. I also enjoy the attention that can be gathered by posting intimate details of your psyche on ****** social networking sites. It amazes me why people are so fascinated by sociopaths - we are evil and self-indulgent at our core, yet "normal" people appear to have a burning desire to understand what motivates our thoughts and actions. Rather ironic actually!

This guy is great, one might say a very gifted sociopath. Often times sociopathy is caused by some other stimulus, like a mother doing meth while pregnant. It's more or less a brain disorder that effects the Orbital Frontal Cortex and Prefrontal Cortex as well as amygdala. Is it any surprise though, after centuries and millenia of wars why wouldn't evolution create a person who could be merciless. It's ultimate survival. Why isn't empathy considered a disorder? Besides, a sociopath could be tricked as easily as another. You present them with enough potential gain and you can trap them into being a fall guy. I have to say though, the vast majority of sociopaths are drugged up and less than intelligent, more of a physical threat than financial or otherwise. This guy is someone you have to fear because of the ability to realize his condition and modify his actions ba<x>sed on it.

full of **** chief.

Im not a sociopath, but if I ever had to come across one, such as yourself, mark my words Id put a bullet in your head and I wouldnt feel a thing, it would be like pulling a single weed out of a field of millions. HOWS THAT FOR NO REMORSE. If need be, anyone can do the immoral things you do. You seem to think it makes you superior, it certainly does not. You should take in consideration the fact that all people are just like you, ALL DOING LITTLE THINGS IN THEIR LITTLE WORLDS, to make themselves feel better. Real superiority comes from being SELFLESS, now thats far more of a rare phenomenon. Your just another chicken trying to fly. lol.

I was involved with a sociopath. You are a proud race. It sickens me even thoug you can't help your shot comings. The fact that you are lacking in so many area, makes it very easy to detect, especially for those tht have come into contact with you. You are to be pitied, if it were worth the energy it would take. It isnt. My ex partner is still attempting to find me, to finish me off. He writes things about me in websites and has, he thinks, ruined me financially and yes he has, but not to the point he would have liked. He didnt barbain for my strength. He's a weak bully who needs a 'fall guy'. He thought it was me. He's ripping his hair out now because he's failed. His name is John (Jock) Cunningham. You can't miss him, he's a scawny repulsive little inidividual with piercing but cold, dead eyes!

tl;dr

I have read every single post on this thread, to this point and I must say, I am fascinated. <br />
Can I tell who is a real socio-path? No, I can't but I don't mind that. I can conclude from what I understand that there is a distinct separation between a socio-path and a psychopath. In light of this I do not fear socio-paths. Yes they are self serving individuals and yes I would probably empathise with anyone who managed to be part of a socio-paths plan, but they are not unlike many others; everyone wants something, according to this, it's how you go about getting it that defines you.<br />
Using people is something we all do, on a daily basis. Being proud of that is something entirely different. My question is, do we really need people for self gratification, why isn't our opinion of ourselves enough without needing to have it verified by someone other than ourselves?<br />
On that note I would like to thank everyone here for posting, be it fact or fiction I have indeed been educated.

Thats it? I had that for breakfast.

The story that began this thread is the single most disturbing narrative I have read in EP. Well written and clear to boot. The great tyrants of the 20th century were cut from the same cloth as gewissenlos. I do not understand how one can be like him and not be the victim of serious male-male violence. If there is a sociobiological ground for the propensity of our species to commit murder, it is to eliminate people like gewissenlos from the gene pool.

@jtwolfy You're 30-something<br />
i didnt block you.

LMFAO. at last you come back with something half decent.<br />
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still need work though. <br />
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it dont matter if it is pretend or not, I dont think it s going to effect my amusment.

lmfao. jtwolfy i think your funny but jesus you could do better than mother jokes couldnt you

jtwolf it because your a fuckwit

Very interesting post. What keeps you from extreme violence? Do you find enough satisfaction through other means or do you desire more?

Why do you think their is an urge or need for violence. Can't someone find other ways to feel satisfied without resorting to violence.

Haha wow the things i say when I am feeling clam.

I always want and deserve more... Aren't we all entitled to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Peoples are still commenting on this. WTF LOL

How do I get a sociopath to leave me alone? I am being harassed, stalked, threatened and obsessed on by a sociopath. This is my second encounter with one. Both are exes. The first one, I learned to be rid of him by ignoring him, his threats, and by disappearing. He eventually stopped. This one seems to be far more determined to either have me, or ruin me, and is much more skilled. Is ignoring him the best way to get him to leave me alone? What would make you forget about your victim? What would make you move on and forget about someone you have targeted to manipulate?

I am being obsessed on and stalked by a sociopath who is determined to have me, manipulate me, or destroy me if he cant. This is my second encounter with one. Both are exes. The first one, I learned to get rid of him and the threats by simply ignoring him and dissapearing. Over time, he stopped. But this one is far more aggressive. Is ignoring the best way? What would make you forget about a victim of yours and move on?

gewissenlos... LOL lustig! meine Oma kommt aus Unterschleißheim in Bayern...<br />
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I don't believe these people... they are all probably "goth" teens or something.<br />
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Most people I have thought were sociopaths come across to the world as the nicest people...

wow, that was a lot.

Medical science tells us that such people are born with brains that are in lay terms and by all human ideals wired up wrong, this begs the question how can this surely evil person really be evil in the religious sense? it would seem wholely unjust that a merciful God could create a person without the capability to empathise with others and in turn be a good person worthy of heaven.

This was an interesting read. I have read a lot about psychopaths. It all started when I wanted to understand the unthinkable - how could the Holocaust happen? How can serial killers so remorselessly hurt and kill? The problem is that for most people these horrible actions remain so unthinkable that truly getting to the bottom of how and why this happens is too difficult.<br />
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There are two little parts to your story that coincide exactly with my understanding as to why you - and serial killers, dictators, etc - have little to no ability to empathize with others and they are both critical lynchpins to your self-understanding:<br />
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1). All serial killers, dictators (such as Hitler), monsters, (and others too) were seriously and horrifically traumatized and abused in the womb or early childhood AND YET in adulthood proclaim that their upbringing was good. You fit this exactly when you say, "Both my parents died when I was young. I benefited from good parenting and a good education so I have a strong moral education..."<br />
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Another important distinction is that such unfeeling monsters never had one single person in their life take them seriously as they are with true empathy for them. You do not speak directly on this point. I am curious to your response, though it leads me to my second point which supports that you have never had anyone take you as you are with an open and empathetic sincerity...<br />
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2). You clearly suffer in a way that tears at your deepest core when you say, "The most difficult part of being who I am is that you can never share your experiences except anonymously". I feel horrible for you that you've never once in your life felt like you could share who you are and have had to keep yourself in hiding, only ever showing yourself with a mask on.<br />
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I think it may be possible for you to gain the ability to feel and empathize, but you would need to correlate how your numbness is related to the specific traumas of your life that forced you to dissociate and suppress your vital emotions. To face that you were never actually loved, and so never had the chance to learn how to love and feel for others. That the essential needs that every baby (all of whom are born innocent and depend on nurturing and love to develop) requires were never met. It would mean condemning the horrible upbringing you lived through that you currently cannot dare to question.<br />
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I recommend reading, "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller, a shocking book that challenges almost every status quo of society with her three careful analyses of the lives of a drug addict, a serial killer, and a dictator (Hitler) and critique of the norms of child rearing practiced even to this day in most families. You yourself claim to challenge many status quo morals held by society, but your challenges are vapid compared to Alice Miller's critique. You basically fit in with almost every single other person on this planet to honor thy mother and father and banish the chid from existence. Few decide to challenge their upbringing and experience the vitality of the innocent child within.<br />
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You basically say that you cannot feel and self-medicate your numbness with mainly sadism and occasionally masochism. There is some of that in virtually everyone to differing degrees. The way children are treated across the world is evidence of that, as there is no minority treated less humanely or with less empathy.<br />
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I also recommend learning how the brain develops and works. Specific types of trauma at different stages of development lead to specific effects, such as the "failure to thrive" syndrome of neglected infants who die from lack of touch like runts of a litter do. Some types of trauma early in life will not register to the untrained eye, yet lead to massive effects later in life. Even, what most may consider subtle abuse or not trauma at all can profoundly affect development and magnify to extreme effect later in life. There is no stage of life more influential than in utero and childhood as it precedes all other experience. The first four years of life are critical due to certain windows of brain development.<br />
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You stated that a person born blind never misses what they never had. Certainly. Some things are like that. Such as: block light from entering a kitten's eye at a crucial stage of visual development and the kitten will never see with that eye despite no defect of the eye. The visual connections in the brain, though, never properly developed in the critical window of development.<br />
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Yet, some windows of development are not forever shut. There is no conclusive proof that development of empathy is something that cannot develop later in life. It may be much more difficult than during the window of brain development in childhood for greatest impression and molding of empathy, but not yet proven to be impossible.<br />
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There are enough cracks in your argument that you are incapable of caring about others to suggest otherwise, as I covered in my two selected quotes. You certainly protect your foster parents and dead parents from criticism or responsibility. It is complete bullshit that babies can be born evil. All babies are born innocent and are not a finished product. The brain is use-dependent, shaped by experience. Maybe the trauma that interfered with your development was so early in utero and now unchangeable. But much trauma in life can be self-healed under the right conditions.

I think your analysis and comments are excellent. However, you should also mention the genetic component in sociopathy is a major factor, but you are absolutely correct that how that child is raised will make a difference in whether he becomes a full-blown sociopath or not. And abuse in childhood has serious mental and physical effects later in life. A child who is in fear has an oversensitive nervous system, kinda like a burnout from being in panic mode for extended periods of time when the fight-or-flight response is set to "on." Since a child cannot escape it's environment, it adapts in dysfunctional ways.

Holy clusterfuck of information Batpeople! <br />
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What. A. Read.

No, sociopaths are not a genetic necessity. Matter of fact, the more of us there are, the more likely complete world destruction is.<br />
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My father, who is definately one himself called me a sociopath once. "Takes on to know one" was my retort (heh heh) A sociopath, by my simple definition, is someone who gets a kick out of decieving others, ripping them off, convincing everyone that you are the true victim when you know damn well things are your fault. <br />
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When I see other people "in love" I feel sometimes a rush of anger. How dare they have the abilty to experience something I can't. Blind people may not know what its like to see, but I'll bet they know they're really missing out on something. Even though I haven't truly experienced love...it sure looks nice. For example, people who aren't constantly numb like I am have genuine smiles. A smirk is usually all I can manage. Sometimes, in movie theatres, I'm the only one laughing at something and notice everyones looking at me like I'm some sort of freak. <br />
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Once, when I was about 14, I was babysitting a six year old girl and decided it would be be "fun" to convince her that potatos were really alien pods and, any second one could burst and a disgusting creature with razor like teeth would spring forth and attach itself to her neck. From that day on, she couldn't even be in the same room with a potato! My God, I still think its funny over a decade later. However, theres that little insy weensy part of me that says, "****, thats really messed up..." But the knowledge of my ammorality and sadistic nature is just that, knowledge. In my brain, I have a file cabinet that catagorizes things. That incident is filed away in "Stuff thats wrong." <br />
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But I'm guessing most people have some sort of feeling attached to "wrong" that prevents them from touching a preverbial hot stove again...and again...and again. Yes, I suffer consequences from my actions when people find out what a monster I really am. No: I don't enjoy being this way at all. It seems like other enjoy life a lot more than I do - sometimes, when I see people who are able to feel "joy" without being drunk, high, or getting a cheap thrill, I am so envious I want to smack them. Sometimes I go out of my way to make them miserable just so I wont have to see them being so f**king happy. <br />
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My credit is shot because of my lack of foresight, emotion, and my impulsive nature. Because I was born poor, I have always been poor...and haven't really been able to get my act together. Finally, I've just decided not to speak to the few friends I have left. Why bother? They'll end up getting hurt and they'll tell everyone...and I'll have to move AGAIN. <br />
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These days, theres no more "pulling the wings off flys just to mess with them" (They looked like raisins, and I used to get a kick out of imagining what horror it must've been like for them not to be able to move!) But just anger...self pity...and no, dumbass, it's not real joy. Its just some sick rush...and you knowing there's something off about you...and being helpless to do anything about it...<br />
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If there were a cure, you bet I'd take it.

Beautifull I hope you people know this isn't ment to educate or inspire fear it's simply ment to be read and possibly start a debate it's just a game and an amuseing one a that it brought that easy sly smile to my face when I lie to somones face I feel as though he Andd I are cut from the sAme cloth but I must stay ob<x>jective I have many years left to figure out what I am as I've only seen 15 years on this earth still much fun is left be had

thanks for sharing.

The "sign in with Facebook" cracks me up. Yeah okay. Let me get right on that.<br />
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What I am labeled as is irrelevant. This thread is emotionally stirring.. almost exciting at some stages and long winded and diatribe-like at others. Several have argued that the O.P could not possibly be a sociopath because of his self awareness. That is off base. Or at the very least caught in the semantics of a DSM manual. A sociopath, like a blind person, has heightened their senses, perception and life to compensate for the missing link.. empathy. That's really all it is about at the core. Animal abuse, masochism, self torture are just further manifestations. The cliche, some are sicker than others, is apt. The poster is legitimate in his self praise on one plane. He is 1000 times more self aware and perceptive than the rest of the drones out there. He merely applies the science and definition to what he knows himself to be and voila.. sociopath. <br />
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I am a person that has no ability to empathize with human beings. That includes my children. Fox's assessments were accurate but then about halfway through turned very boring and self pitying. I honestly don't know what I am. I want to hurt people that hurt animals. Is it because I feel empathy for the animals or because I loathe someone so weak that they cannot find stronger prey? I have no desire to kill and I may at times feel "bad" about what I have done to others. Is that a learned behavior that is exclusively cerebral? Not sure. I know how to feel angry, self pity, and self loss. Those are all real emotions for me and can affect my behavior, in my opinion, negatively. Empathy for others. I don't care if I make you late. My occasional remorse and regrets are similar to what the OP described. That is, they are completely self absorbed. I pity that I am now have to find new acquaintances. Where I digress from the OP is that I do dislike what I am. The constant having to reinvent yourself and maintaining facades and lies is tiresome.<br />
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Do people truly feel pity deep inside themselves for others? I feel that 90% of what people pass off as pity is bull--it. They are acting the way they are supposed to act. To borrow the OP's saying.. why am I the bad guy because I do not force fake emotion? Why are you crying at that person's funeral? You are not crying for them. They are dead. You are crying for yourself.. for your own loss. That's selfish, yes? So, I abandon the label sociopath. i don't know if I am or I am not. I know I am not a person that will ever have a normal life and that does hurt.

You hit the nail o the head when you say you fell ANGER and SELF-PITY. Those are the keenest emotions a sociopath can have. But your remarks will always be self-serving, and you will never know what other people experience beyond your narrow world. You are contemptuous of the rest of humanity!

I don't think your missing out on much in fact love can be a burden and most of the time other emotions are to as long as you have judgement and from what ive read you seem to your fine

that story was brilliant, I know this is probably going to wind you up and i'm glad I have a smile on my face knowing it is going to make you comment and twitch.<br />
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but i have to be honest, it was describing me in every sense the fights the empathy, its all brilliant its all normal, I am greater than you but you are inspiring i have to admit, not that it is a compliment but i guess it is recognition that their are people out their just like me and it is ******* amazing to know that, my wish would be to manipulate one such like me, i guess that would be a challenge in itself or maybe, we will both just hurt each other. and great irony it would be to become "good friends"<br />
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thank you for your post as now i feel great.

@FoxConfessor: Perhaps you had a bad experience, and perhaps sociopaths are more than capable of doing what you described. That being said your blatant generalization, and inherent suspicion is nothing short of utter prejudice, and intolerance. Its no more justified to say what you have said about sociopaths as a group, than it is to say that because a handful of black people are themselves criminals, as a racial block those of African decent are prone to violent criminal lifestyles. Based on your response I see three levels of such subjective to ob<x>jective generalization.<br />
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I. You and people such as yourself, have taken the entirely personal profile of your abuser and turned it into a generalized archetype to which you then apply to a general community of people. Taking from your writing, you state: “They are uncapable of empathy. That's it. And because of this they are cunning in exploiting others and have no feelings about it one way or the other…”; I’ll grant you, sure we are incapable of empathy; I’ll even go further to say we have no ‘conscience’, no sense of remorse, and lack an ability to feel emotion in a broad sense. However beyond that I have to stop you. What a sociopath chooses to do with that reality about themselves is entirely left to them. Some may choose to abuse others and recklessly serve their short term interests, others may see a broader scope and choose to serve their long term interests. Some may even poses a personal code of ethics so to speak, or have very complex thought out value systems. The problem with what you are doing is the reality that the only people you know to be sociopaths are those of the most visible and obvious brand, the criminals, and the abusers. A true accounting of the total number of sociopaths existing in society would be impossible as most are undiagnosed, and really unaware that they even fit into that category. I do assure you however that like any population I doubt those on the fringe truly represent the nature of the group itself. That being said there are many varieties of sociopath, there is the highly intelligent group that seems to be such a cliché, but there is also a group characterized by a lack of intellect. Simply put, I have seen a lot of people here, yourself included, attempting to make assertions about what a sociopath is and has to be, when the reality of the human mind, and the construct of the ego are far more complex. The result has been society’s next boogey man, and what basically amounts to a witch hunt and defamation campaign on the part of the self appointed experts. <br />
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II. You utilize the very personal vocabulary you use to describe the underlying motivations of a person and really a group of people which lets it face you will never understand. Because your abuser made you feel like prey, you believe that sociopaths reciprocate in this mentality and consider you so themselves. In reality whether a sociopath thinks in terms of a predator/prey relationship is largely dependent upon how they view themselves and is in no way a necessary condition for being sociopathic. I myself, due to my philosophical background tend to see the world in terms of power struggles, this has absolutely nothing to do with my perception and more to do with my epistemology. That being said the nature of my perception versus the one you attempt to set up is far different. Predator/prey has an inherent conflict set up within it, whereas my outlook doesn't have to be abusive or necessarily exploitative to anyone. Moreover the underlying limitations of your language can again be demonstrated at the point where you are utilizing an “us against them” mentality, which I believe is fairly inappropriate. Most sociopaths don’t really feel like a mutual group or interest acting as a collective force but instead feel rather individualistic, and I would even venture to say feel that few if any can really understand them. I personally don’t think of myself as belonging to a predatory group which seeks to exploit all others. (Though I do personally enjoy the company of those like myself as I consider them among the few I can conceivably connect with.) In the same respect when you make this into an “us versus them” mentality you are doing little more than inciting the same sort of sentiments which motivate the various “community/jewish/nazi/elite/catholic/muslim” conspiracy theories, in other words you, the victim in this case, are choosing to victimize another group for no other reason than simply representing the unknown. Thus your linguistic limitation of thinking collectively has caused you to believe that sociopaths as a group think collectively, and thus can fit this predator model you have set up (thus requiring and demanding action on your part and on the part of others to mobilize against them).<br />
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III. The final point is the simple fact that you yourself are not a sociopath and thus you really have no business making the sorts of moral, and social judgments that you have. You have told people to treat us like a classical society would a leper… you have advocated for discrimination, inherent distrust, contempt on the part of society, and you have more or less described us as subhuman… You as a person have personally admitted to stalking a sociopath, albeit they abused you, and proceeding to ruin their life wherever they go manipulating them in a vicious way that could be no more justified than what they did to you… These policy declarations are further substantiated by generalizations gleaned from your experience with a single person, and colored by the fact that you have absolutely no true understanding of a sociopath nor can you empathize with them any more then they could empathize with you. You state that no Sociopath is interested in getting better but you fail to realize that most people are generally afraid of change especially something as significant as ones perception. Surely you can empathize at the point where you have no desire to become sociopathic yourself. <br />
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In short to those who are not sociopaths and attempting to issue insight into them, back the **** off. You are unqualified to make such pronouncements, and advocate action. Simply put it's socially irresponsible and dangerous to do what you are doing. (This is how things like the holocaust get started.)

You're completely full of it!! If I said I dislike all criminals, would that be a disparaging generalization?? I have heard her story enough times to know that it is absolutely true. Many people have had this experience, and she is only trying to warn them. Ever heard the concept of the winners writing history? It's about as credible as letting the sociopaths explain themselves. Would I ever take the word of a sociopath? No, because their whole world is just lying and manipulation. That's no stereotype, that's REALITY!

Gewissenlos: What you've written has just made me smile. It is divine to be someone like us, isn't it? <br />
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To try and describe what I feel, It's almost as though I am a brick wall living in a world built of glass. So many predictable, expendable, translucent human beings walking around full of such grotesque, nauseating weakness. <br />
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They are all so mundane, so full of denials, and so very similar to one another, and yet I never get tired of the way they run around and around in their own personal sick little circles. Like rodents. <br />
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It is a joy to be free of their shared fear of what they appear to be in the eyes of their companions. I have never walked out into the sun and wondered if they think I am good enough for them. <br />
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It is unbelieveable that there is anything I could be possibly "Missing out on." <br />
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I am happily surving seperate from them, living in a state of constant observation, like staring at the world from a window. I feel absolutely no rage towards most of them, they are all interesting in their own ways. I do not believe there is anything they experience that I am really "incapable" of, I merely feel as though I am another type of creature than the humans I share this world with. Some of them I have had real affection for, I think. I love their frequent, silly, revealing outbursts. Their unrelenting desire to establish some sort of mutual neediness with one another. I sometimes feel as though I've experienced the tangled mess of their feelings second-hand. <br />
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It is so much better this way. It is a life of ecstasy :)

Dude, you're a retard. You're not exploiting you're gift to it's full potential. You say you're happy with "habits". But you're ******* depressed, that means whatever you're doing is not working. Not all sociopaths mission is to hurt and kill. That's all ******* baloney, stop watching all these ******* Hollywood flicks. I also laugh at grim stuff, and I'm not a sociopath woopty doo. If I were, I would be ******* a bunch of girls, and getting a degree on a competitive career, if I were you.

Wonderful read!

I tried to read through all those comments but lost interest about halfway. To me, you actually sound a highly intelligent autistic person.

ers, clearly you have never had a sociopath in your personal life for long enough to have done the damage they are capable of. I have. I lived with one for six years. Of course I did not know for a long time that he'd had this diagnosis earlier in life but, the evidence in MY life was plain enough. <br />
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ASPD is nothing to be that interested in really. They are uncapable of empathy. That's it. And because of this they are cunning in exploiting others and have no feelings about it one way or the other. They learn to "parrot" very well. Emotions SEEM to be "real" and they are quite charming since they work very hard at making others like and believe them. I mean if you worked all your life at duping others you'd be good at it too.<br />
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And they love volunteer work or appearing philanthropic. Indeed unless you had a person like this in your personal life and not just as a casual aquaintance you'd probably not know it. You'd most likely think the sociopath was one of the nicest most likable people you know. They work very hard at keeping up appearances and smearing their victims ...they appear more credible when they cover their tracks and smear the whistle blowers if they have good cover. The tranisent nature of volunteer work is key here. Transient populations are their bread and butter.<br />
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There are red flags though. Someone who doesn't have ANY one from their past personal life they are still close to or that YOU can talk to. Sociopaths run off everyone who was ever intimately involved with them and they certainly don't want you talking to them. <br />
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Really they are boring since their internal life is pretty empty. They don't do a thing except co opt the identity of others as their own. In fact they co opt everything about other people. Their work, their words, their personality. A narcissist is just on the low end of the sociopath scale. <br />
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You do NOT want one of these people in your life. They will steal your money, ruin your health, exploit every good thing in your life and then when you have nothing left to exploit they will move on to another person or population. They target the more vulnerable...or the "kindest" people. Those MOST capable of empathy are usually the prey as they can play up some pitiful story and charm them into to wanting to "help" the sociopath.<br />
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Those of you who don't think they are "evil" which is the most apt word for the damage they do haven't had the extreme displeasure of personally knowing one.<br />
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It took me a long, long time to undo the damage done but, I was set on making the sociopath as meaningless to my life as possible. They love to think they've harmed you so much they are infamous in your life history. Actually, I just think of this animal as a sad, useless creature these days. He's not even entertaining since most of what he says and does have to do with lies so nothing is even real with them. Well, maybe one thing. They spend morning noon and night getting attention, money, and entertainment by exploiting others. That's their entire life.<br />
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WE can love, WE can experience all that life has to offer. They never can and never will. There is no cure for this if you want to call it an illness and no sociopath wants it if there were. They think they are superior for not feeling as we do. More "evolved" lol...what a crock of nonsense. <br />
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I can spot them far more readily now and stay out of their way. But for six years when the sociopath decided to TARGET me and that's what they do. They stalk prey they do NOT have "relationships" ...I was in the vortex of having my entire life's work, and all my other relationships ruined in a systematic way by the soul sucker. <br />
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You are an ob<x>ject to them like a toaster. When you break or won't do what they want you to anymore ...then you will be discarded with no more thought than throwing out an appliance. <br />
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When I met the S. I had a disabled child and was in social work and had just had a death in the family...that's the PERFECT target for an s and believe me it's just what they look for. They love people in "helping" professions who have a few vulnerabilities in life because those are the people easiest to exploit. Had I known the red flags then,...well a lot of things might have been different.<br />
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Research is now going on as to how many people are driven to suicide by sociopathic relationships...some socipaths do this on purpose so you cannot rat them out and their hands are clean. They are soulless creatures and that's all. They are to be pitied and ignored. <br />
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Today, I have a lot more understanding than I once did and a GREAT life. Some things I figured out the sociopath hated since he can never have them. All he can have is the pleasure he gets from pulling off another great manipulation to get what he "wants" but, ultimately everyone leaves his sorry *** in the dust. Forty something, alone and without a genuine thing about his person he can be honest with anyone about. <br />
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I find them quite boring now and laughable but, for the damage they do. If you want to know about them you should ask those who have lived with them instead of discussing this WITH a sociopath. A sociopath is a liar of the utmost skill and will do nothing but, entertain themselves with the lies you are sucking up like oxygen. Please....pretending to be interested in this discussion to get attention and that's it. Soon bored...and perhaps sucking someone in to being exploited? Going fishing are you? <br />
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lol...people need to be aware of the red flags of these sociopaths behavior and then just stay away from them. Leave them to live their lives alone. The more cagey ones are not in jails as they do things "just" within the law and discredit all their victims, that is if the victims survive their viciousness. <br />
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They will "play pitiful" "hapless" "sad" and "earnest" better than anyone you ever saw and you will fall for it. However, their "stories" and that's all their entire life is, is a "story" do not add up. There is no way to verify what they are telling you and you will get an uneasy feeling. Listen to it. No matter how "sincere and likable" these people are you will notice you don't "quite" believe the preposterous story...don't. And don't have ANY contact with them any further or you will be sucked in. No one is invulnerable to it unless you know the signs. You can spot them early on if you know what to look for and being OVERLY well spoken and charming is just one sign. Appearing with a pitiful story that is OVERLY plausible but, fantastic is another, not being able to ever talk to in any private way with people who they have LIVED with. NOT friends who have only known them a year or two but, life long "friends" sociopaths don't have any life long real friends because they destroy the lives of everyone who gets that close before too long and people end up getting away from them by the skin of their teeth and then hiding from them. <br />
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I used to not believe in the concept of "evil" but, now I do and sociopaths if there is such a thing as "evil" are the very definition of that word "evil" There's nothing good to know about them at all. Nothing worth your time or effort. Again, you'd learn a lot more by talking to people who have known one intimately since the sociopath will only lie to you and will enjoy you being intrigued by their bullshit. <br />
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If THEY were really interested in their condition beyond getting attention for it and feeling superior they'd have done something about it more concrete ages ago but, none of them do. If they go to any so called therapy they do nothing but, play the therapist and learn how to con better from the knowledge they gain there, how better to manipulate others. How to use the language of therapy in every day life to make others think they are "working on their "issues" Words they laugh at and would never say except for their own gain. Even the most skilled therapists are fooled by them and tend to get away from them once they see through the mask. <br />
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I've outted mine all over the place and though he'd love for me to be afraid of him, I'm not. I find him impotent and laughable. I have concrete evidence he cannot refute so every new population he goes to I ruin it for him as much as possible. I also tracked down his other victims and have them back me up since the sociopath wants the world to believe their victims are persecuting them and not the other way around. Facts are facts. I do damage control on the one I knew as much as possible and live very well. I don't want him to get away with harming any more people than he already has so I take chances. He can't find where I live anymore so he's helpless to stop me keeping him from charming his sorry *** into the hearts of the unsuspecting. Hopefully, this does some good and will keep ONE of them contained to entertaining himself by going on the internet and telling ridiculous lies about himself. <br />
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*YAWN* this is about as much as I care to contribute here since thinking about and spending time talking about sociopaths is boring to me now.

ers, clearly you have never had a sociopath in your personal life for long enough to have done the damage they are capable of. I have. I lived with one for six years. Of course I did not know for a long time that he'd had this diagnosis earlier in life but, the evidence in MY life was plain enough. <br />
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ASPD is nothing to be that interested in really. They are uncapable of empathy. That's it. And because of this they are cunning in exploiting others and have no feelings about it one way or the other. They learn to "parrot" very well. Emotions SEEM to be "real" and they are quite charming since they work very hard at making others like and believe them. I mean if you worked all your life at duping others you'd be good at it too.<br />
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And they love volunteer work or appearing philanthropic. Indeed unless you had a person like this in your personal life and not just as a casual aquaintance you'd probably not know it. You'd most likely think the sociopath was one of the nicest most likable people you know. They work very hard at keeping up appearances and smearing their victims ...they appear more credible when they cover their tracks and smear the whistle blowers if they have good cover. The tranisent nature of volunteer work is key here. Transient populations are their bread and butter.<br />
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There are red flags though. Someone who doesn't have ANY one from their past personal life they are still close to or that YOU can talk to. Sociopaths run off everyone who was ever intimately involved with them and they certainly don't want you talking to them. <br />
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Really they are boring since their internal life is pretty empty. They don't do a thing except co opt the identity of others as their own. In fact they co opt everything about other people. Their work, their words, their personality. A narcissist is just on the low end of the sociopath scale. <br />
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You do NOT want one of these people in your life. They will steal your money, ruin your health, exploit every good thing in your life and then when you have nothing left to exploit they will move on to another person or population. They target the more vulnerable...or the "kindest" people. Those MOST capable of empathy are usually the prey as they can play up some pitiful story and charm them into to wanting to "help" the sociopath.<br />
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Those of you who don't think they are "evil" which is the most apt word for the damage they do haven't had the extreme displeasure of personally knowing one.<br />
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It took me a long, long time to undo the damage done but, I was set on making the sociopath as meaningless to my life as possible. They love to think they've harmed you so much they are infamous in your life history. Actually, I just think of this animal as a sad, useless creature these days. He's not even entertaining since most of what he says and does have to do with lies so nothing is even real with them. Well, maybe one thing. They spend morning noon and night getting attention, money, and entertainment by exploiting others. That's their entire life.<br />
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WE can love, WE can experience all that life has to offer. They never can and never will. There is no cure for this if you want to call it an illness and no sociopath wants it if there were. They think they are superior for not feeling as we do. More "evolved" lol...what a crock of nonsense. <br />
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I can spot them far more readily now and stay out of their way. But for six years when the sociopath decided to TARGET me and that's what they do. They stalk prey they do NOT have "relationships" ...I was in the vortex of having my entire life's work, and all my other relationships ruined in a systematic way by the soul sucker. <br />
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You are an ob<x>ject to them like a toaster. When you break or won't do what they want you to anymore ...then you will be discarded with no more thought than throwing out an appliance. <br />
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When I met the S. I had a disabled child and was in social work and had just had a death in the family...that's the PERFECT target for an s and believe me it's just what they look for. They love people in "helping" professions who have a few vulnerabilities in life because those are the people easiest to exploit. Had I known the red flags then,...well a lot of things might have been different.<br />
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Research is now going on as to how many people are driven to suicide by sociopathic relationships...some socipaths do this on purpose so you cannot rat them out and their hands are clean. They are soulless creatures and that's all. They are to be pitied and ignored. <br />
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Today, I have a lot more understanding than I once did and a GREAT life. Some things I figured out the sociopath hated since he can never have them. All he can have is the pleasure he gets from pulling off another great manipulation to get what he "wants" but, ultimately everyone leaves his sorry *** in the dust. Forty something, alone and without a genuine thing about his person he can be honest with anyone about. <br />
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I find them quite boring now and laughable but, for the damage they do. If you want to know about them you should ask those who have lived with them instead of discussing this WITH a sociopath. A sociopath is a liar of the utmost skill and will do nothing but, entertain themselves with the lies you are sucking up like oxygen. Please....pretending to be interested in this discussion to get attention and that's it. Soon bored...and perhaps sucking someone in to being exploited? Going fishing are you? <br />
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lol...people need to be aware of the red flags of these sociopaths behavior and then just stay away from them. Leave them to live their lives alone. The more cagey ones are not in jails as they do things "just" within the law and discredit all their victims, that is if the victims survive their viciousness. <br />
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They will "play pitiful" "hapless" "sad" and "earnest" better than anyone you ever saw and you will fall for it. However, their "stories" and that's all their entire life is, is a "story" do not add up. There is no way to verify what they are telling you and you will get an uneasy feeling. Listen to it. No matter how "sincere and likable" these people are you will notice you don't "quite" believe the preposterous story...don't. And don't have ANY contact with them any further or you will be sucked in. No one is invulnerable to it unless you know the signs. You can spot them early on if you know what to look for and being OVERLY well spoken and charming is just one sign. Appearing with a pitiful story that is OVERLY plausible but, fantastic is another, not being able to ever talk to in any private way with people who they have LIVED with. NOT friends who have only known them a year or two but, life long "friends" sociopaths don't have any life long real friends because they destroy the lives of everyone who gets that close before too long and people end up getting away from them by the skin of their teeth and then hiding from them. <br />
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I used to not believe in the concept of "evil" but, now I do and sociopaths if there is such a thing as "evil" are the very definition of that word "evil" There's nothing good to know about them at all. Nothing worth your time or effort. Again, you'd learn a lot more by talking to people who have known one intimately since the sociopath will only lie to you and will enjoy you being intrigued by their bullshit. <br />
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If THEY were really interested in their condition beyond getting attention for it and feeling superior they'd have done something about it more concrete ages ago but, none of them do. If they go to any so called therapy they do nothing but, play the therapist and learn how to con better from the knowledge they gain there, how better to manipulate others. How to use the language of therapy in every day life to make others think they are "working on their "issues" Words they laugh at and would never say except for their own gain. Even the most skilled therapists are fooled by them and tend to get away from them once they see through the mask. <br />
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I've outted mine all over the place and though he'd love for me to be afraid of him, I'm not. I find him impotent and laughable. I have concrete evidence he cannot refute so every new population he goes to I ruin it for him as much as possible. I also tracked down his other victims and have them back me up since the sociopath wants the world to believe their victims are persecuting them and not the other way around. Facts are facts. I do damage control on the one I knew as much as possible and live very well. I don't want him to get away with harming any more people than he already has so I take chances. He can't find where I live anymore so he's helpless to stop me keeping him from charming his sorry *** into the hearts of the unsuspecting. Hopefully, this does some good and will keep ONE of them contained to entertaining himself by going on the internet and telling ridiculous lies about himself. <br />
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*YAWN* this is about as much as I care to contribute here since thinking about and spending time talking about sociopaths is boring to me now.

I was just wondering how exposing your sociopath has been working out for u?
   I have been researching this subject cause I have a family member who left her sociopathic bf. But she had to move away from our small town to do it! He still keeps in touch with her once a week, &amp; upon her last visit home, kept trying to get her to meet him. I wish I knew for sure but I think he may be dangerously violent when it comes to her. Any guy who tries to get close to her (she is very attractive) will get bombarded with disgusting messages from him &amp; some have had their tires slashed repeatedly. He tells everyone locally that she's just a *****, but secretly tells her how much he loves her over &amp; over. While they were together, he easily manipulated her &amp; I believe was physically abusive as well. He has everyone fooled (but me as he kept in touch with me too a little pretending he was concerned about her but when I wouldn't give him her mailing address for a supposing gift he bought her, he stopped talking to me. Guess no use to him lol) that he is the sweetest and most hard-done-by guy. A few months after she broke up with him &amp; while she still lived here, he saw her out &amp; about &amp; in his drunken state (he drinks really heavily &amp; more so since she left him) he attacked her &amp; started punching her in the stomache until some mutual male friends pulled him away! He apologized to his friends the next day cause he knows they really liked her, plus he had to pretend he was sorry (NOT) &amp; they all accepted it as water off a duck! He is not only 100% a sociopath to a T ... but add to that a young man projecting himself as this swagger player who in reality is suppressing his homosexuality. She finally left him after discovering this secret life he has been leading from his messages arranging sexual encounters with men off the net. He does NOT know that she knows this &amp; I fear he would hunt her down &amp; make sure she could never tell his secret.  

Should I be worried for her safety and actively try to get him to leave town for good by following your lead (he mostly works away)?? Or do I trust that sociopaths don't usually get violent with their "targets" and he will move onto someone else? (not that that is really a good solution) I would really appreciate some advice on this so that when she comes home in 2 months for a 4 month stay, I can rest easily that she's safe.

Pls note that she isn't aware that he is a sociopath, &amp; if I suggest it she will probably ignore that as this was her "first" love &amp; she protects him for some stupid reason. She thinks if she just stays friends, he won't humiliate her on fb &amp; twitter any more. I think he thinks he still has a chance of getting her back someday cause he doesn't think he has ever done anything wrong!

Listen to Fox!!! This is the LOWDOWN AND THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH about who and what they are, and EVIL is the right word for it. They target the MOST VULNERABLE - like my stepfather targeted and sexually abused my sister FROM AGE 3! They have NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER!!

This is the TRUTH: "If you want to know about them you should ask those who have lived with them instead of discussing this WITH a sociopath. A sociopath is a liar of the utmost skill and will do nothing but, entertain themselves with the lies you are sucking up like oxygen."

You said it, sister!!

Why in the hell did she not have him charged with assault, when she had witnesses!!! A police record would have worked to discredit him with a lot of people! When you get the upper hand on these people, you HAVE to play it, because you aren't likely to get the chance again!! She should have NO CONTACT WHATSOVER.

That's the only policy with these liars and manipulators. If they are in your life in any way, they will attempt to control you as he is still controlling her now!!

Interesting. I think I am going to copy and paste your story and share it with a friend. I wonder if she will agree with you.

1 More Response

I think everyone should worship themselves, if we did, there would be much less pain and suffering in the world<br />
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gewissenlos, you sound fairly rational-minded, but I do not think you truly worship yourself, maybe a quasi-worship. <br />
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Some people say that sociopaths are not human since they feel no empathy or guilt. I do not think this is what defines some autonomous entity as human, these are merely tools that allow for more efficient application of the one virtue that I do believe to make us human, i.e. our ability to use and appreciate reason. Which by the sound of it, you have... Unfortunately for you, however, you lack some of the (emotional) tools that "everyone" else has to help them maintain a fulfilling rational existence. Guilt and empathy for example, are like warning lights that indicate our action may not be good for our own preservation as a rational being, so that we do not need to logically (and time-consumingly) analyze every situation to know how to act. Coincidentally, I do not think that the feeling guilt or empathy should be taken as some sort of absolute fact about one's actions, it is very important to know where these stem from (usually instilled in childhood i would presume). And I think emotional responses can be shaped so as to benefit the individual the most. <br />
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Ultimately what I mean to say is that a sociopath is just as capable of becoming a virtuous human being. The road to excellence is a difficult one, even for those of us who do feel guilt and empathy, but unfortunately a sociopath does not have all the tools that make this trek a little easier, and hence the term"life is not fair". <br />
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I do have some sympathy for one's afflicted with this disorder because it will be more difficult for them to fulfill their human capabilities. Simply having this condition, which must be realized by all (including the afflicted) does NOT rationally justify any irrational actions.

hmmm...this is interesting...because I had someone right here on EP label me as a "malignant narcisist", and a psychopath! What a hellova label to fix on someone eh? But you know what? even if I was, which I certainly don't believe myself to be or I would have already lost it....but even if I was, I would never, ever advertise it on here..Wanna know why?? Because I've already noticed that people on this site LOVE labels..They absolutely love being given a label attached to their name...wonder, does it make them feel special somehow??

mmm. Not looking for potentially useful worshipers?

For the same reason most are here, to share experiences and learn from the experiences of others. Knowledge is power.

Knowledge is indeed power and with power comes the decision to use it.

If what you say is true. Why are you here at this website?

It's why I change my associations frequently. Those who are around me for long enough invariably recognise me for what I am. I am aware that there are quite a few people who know who I am, who even spread this among themselves and it makes me a little uncomfortable to say the least. I am a user but I am also used. I would say that others use me more than I use them. (Yet, I am the bad person?) I do want something else but what that is ... is for me alone. I think your assessment is, for the most part, correct. It fell just short of identifying what it is that constitutes my relationship to this world:<br />
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I worship myself.

Your story is exactly like someone I was involved with. You sound very charming, well educated, cunning and self assured. I say self assured, but in a self diluted sort of way. While you may think you are able to control and manipulate other people, you don't realize you are a dead give away! Did it ever occur to you that other people just keep what they know about you to themselves? They go along enjoying your silly games to just use you too. You are never as sly as you think you are, and that's why nothing ever lasts long for you. The only happiness you seem to have is based on the image you have of yourself, and even that is false. I think deep down you want something else. Am a right?

@Shaylon,<br />
There's no need to be diagnosed with anything. You know yourself. You know how others react to you. You know how you perceive the world and feel about others. It does not square up with what is considered normal behaviour so you know something is off. Others who have known you also know that something isn't right with you even if they can't quite place their finger on it. You eventually stumble upon a checklist of criteria which describe your particular quirks and you realise that people refer to these particular characteristics taken together as "antisocial personality disorder." Do you really want to pay to see a shrink to confirm what you already know and get this disorder documented officially as part of your medical history and accessible to authority figures? I doubt that.<br />
Yes, it is said that sociopaths mellow out with age. Whether that translates to a tendency to be less violent or have less violent fantasies, I couldn't tell you. I'll tell you when I'm near 40.

The curious thing about morality and behavior is that it changes as society changes over time meaning that what was immoral yesterday is not even a consideration today. So does society evolve into sociopaths or into less self-demoralizing behavior? Also gewissenlos were you diagnosed or just feel that you fit the profile? Either way don't most male sociopaths hit their stride around 30 years of age as far as the thing that determines whether or not they will act on their violent thoughts?

The curious thing about morality and behavior is that it changes as society changes over time meaning that what was immoral yesterday is not even a consideration today. So does society evolve into sociopaths or into less self-demoralizing behavior? Also gewissenlos were you diagnosed or just feel that you fit the profile? Either way don't most male sociopaths hit their stride around 30 years of age as far as the thing that determines whether or not they will act on their violent thoughts?

@gewissenlos: Clever trick, the lies. I suppose we've all used some form of that at some point. But that's good information to have in trying to more precisely pinpoint the lie hidden among a field of half-truths and random details. I believe I've seen it used before, but have never been able to describe the exact technique. Good info to have. On another note, at least you appear to show some restraint. I'm sure there is at least some degree of benefit to be had through this restraint, for anyone involved. <br />
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@couloir: another good point (brain waves). Something to look in to. I agree with your point about experiences being limited without having the comparison of others' experiences at hand... But that's delving into a completely different subject matter regarding collective experience far too long to discuss here, on the "sociopath" subforum, at that. <br />
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Personally, I'm surprised to find myself wandering in and out of this thread at the will of my varying piqued interests and perhaps a bit of explorative ADD. :-)

Revo, thanks for your concise analysis of our "moot". However, if you had taken the time to read any of the comments, you'd have realized sooner [that] we weren't discussing any sort of piteous experiences or "moot" you were so hoping to find here before you made a nuissance and an undeserving braggart of yourself. Your experience does not make you clever or cunning, it only makes you seem underdeveloped. Looks like the only person you've outsmarted here is... well, perhaps you've overextended yourself in trying to outsmart anyone here. I have no compassion for people like you, nor do I expect you to take that to heart. You've made at least two senseless claims so far and a poorly thought-out misuse of language: <BR><BR>(1) Sociopaths will "mess up and look at the mess" they've made -- I doubt any sociopath has this inherent need to "look back" or empathize, hence the term "sociopath," and not "****." <BR><BR>(2) Your use of the word "us". In claiming that your are in fact, only a self-professed "****," you've not only outruled your own hypothesis but also the claim that you "know" us better than we know ourselves. Were you trying to say that any random "****" off the street knows my mind better than I do? Experience, by far, has taught me otherwise: "Dicks," unlike sociopaths, are actually rather dumb, not to mention characteristically arrogant in particular correlation to that lack of basic intelligence, as you seem to exhibit to a tee. In my experience, which I'm sure is shared by many, it is not so hard to outsmart a penis, if i may borrow your "use [of] a scientific phrase." <BR><BR>I'm glad we provided a welcome mat for you to wipe your overworked feet on, but I suggest knowing your precise position before you make a claim to state it. However, thanks for your participation in begging to clarify points that have already been made through basic public knowledge, ****. :-)

Hey, I didnt really bother to read many of the previous comments, other than the origional poster, who is seemlingly truthful about his experiences. If i may i will share a short story. My Girlfriend and my Best friend, I tortured them, I pushed them together, They shared a common bond that was the emotional pain i caused. Now normally, my girlfriend would have been well out of my best friends league, he was stunningly ugly. However the bond they shared caused them eventually to share a moment of intimacy. However I had been whispering in both parties groups of friends' ears, telling them how much i was hurting watching them "get together" right in front of my eyes. When the moment of intimacy arose, both parties friends abandon them, thought of them as callous, and supported me in my hour of need. A perfectly executed plan, I can out on top, Theyre still, one year later, friendly, relationshipless and hated. I didnt get caught, people didnt realise what i was doing. So all you people who say "stay away from sociopaths" and say we will "mess up and look at the mess we've made", your obviously getting us confused with; to use a scietific phrase "Dicks". We know your mind more completely than you do, you arent going to outsmart us, arent going to realise "whats going on", until we decide its time, and at that point, what does it matter? Why should we care? the point alot of you are making are moot.

Now you are very convincingly a sociopath - someone who messes with people's lives because he can, and actually get's pleasure out of other people's pain. You're Iago from Othello, the person who fans the flames of jealousy, and destroys peoples reputations behind their back. It's what you love to do. Notice the stunning ability to manipulate entire groups of people! You are one scary person. I only hope it catches up with you one day, because it will. Your luck will run out at some point, and you will end up empty and alone.

It's simple really. If you believe I'm a sociopath and you're interested in the topic, you'll want to hear more about my experience. If I'm a fraud and really some idiot who thinks the term is cool and wants desperately to be viewed by others in that way then I'm sure you'll be smart enough to recognise an impostor and you'll just avoid the thread.<br />
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There's a lot about my lifestyle that's not typical of sociopaths. I don't abuse any substances. I used to but I learned the hard way that that can leave you dead. I'm a careful liar and tell only the subtle ones over which I have a greater degree of control. I seldom commit criminal acts for lack of interest really. In fact, I am involved in charitable efforts and sometimes exhibit a bit of altruism. I enjoy helping others (when I come out looking like a hero). It would be very easy to rule me out and consider me normal. In fact, I hate the word "victims." It makes me sound cold, calculating and evil but for those who have been hurt by me, it is usually case that I didn't want to hurt them but my nature eventually caused it. Do I feel bad after? No, not in the least. It's just a part of entering any relationship with me. Eventually, you'll come out getting hurt and I will be fine. I don't lead a parastic lifestyle (My opinion. Although I'm sure an unbiased observer might find that I am indeed a parasite). That's part of my problem. I am oblivious to my faults. Haha. I take responsibility for my wrongs but usually when it can be demonstrated that I was to blame and I usually do it boldly to let others know that I am not afraid of them and I always seem *noble* for stepping up and accepting my wrongs. It makes others sympathetic to me and my cause and gives me room to come out on top ;-) Learn that.

A parasitic lifestyle is often proof that someone is a sociopath. Many move from one person to the next, financially scamming their victims and leaving when they've picked them clean. People left behind are usually devastated.

@babushka, when you are lied to by a convincing liar you won't know the difference between the lie and the truth. I find that the best lies resemble the truth. By leaving out a few details you can always seem like an honest person because when you are caught you only need to point out that you neglected to mention that small fact and it would seem like an honest mistake on your part. You can also twist and turn and continue to pull the wool over your listener's eyes by introducing additional elements to the story which make the listener lose track of the lies.<br><br />
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It's the subtle action of the sociopaths that make them so dangerous. Their actions seem so genuine and believable that you can't help but become taken in.

You are right on the money, there! They usually have an out somewhere, like a reasonable deniiability. They are very clever and practiced liars.Many people can't lie convincingly, because they can't help feeling some guilt or anxiety at the time they are doing it. I can think of two people who are really convincing liars - Bernie madoff, and Casey Anthony.

@cheerupemochic,<br />
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I remember now what I had written. I think that sociopaths are on some level not fully conscious or self-aware. Without the ability to empathize with others you can only see half the story. You can't know the reality of another human being until you can step into their shoes. There's been studies done where scientists have examined the brain waves of sociopaths. It turns out that their brain waves look similar to that of a normal person in a light sleep. So, you could hypothesize that sociopaths are never truly awake and fully aware of the world around them.<br />
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Empathy and a conscience helps us know what is going on inside other people. Without this ability a person is cut off from understanding others. Without information about what others are feeling and thinking our experience in life is more limited, in my opinion.

@ couloir: Aw. :-( Well I hope you remember. I like mile-long interesting reads. :-)

Darn, this site is not built well. I just posted a mile-long message to cheerupmochic and the server lost it. Have to re-think and come back later.

@pitstopbunny,<br />
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I mean something like being inadvertently insensitive to someone, like forgetting that they had just recovered from an illness and joking about getting sick. It happens to us all :)

Many people are perfectly capable of being callous. It's not quite the same thing. Some people have more empathy than others.

Hi,<br />
I just wanted to know who gewissenlos is. I feel it is interesting to see how you justify your being.<br />
Ich bin nicht gewissenslos, Ich bin froh ein Gewissen zu haben.<br />
mutti4

Very interesting. <br />
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Having been very deeply involved with a sociopathic peronality (I'll call her C), I have to admit that you have certainly hit all the marks. Could you be someone simply reciting all the right words? Sure, but I don't think that's true. Even the tone of voice in your writing raises a red flag with me...it has the ring of truth to it. <br />
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But, you also make a very interesting point, one that I had to come to grips with myself during my relationship with C: that she couldn't have hurt me as badly as I did if I hadn't allowed her too. Was she highly maniupulative? Absolutely. Did she actually put a gun to my head and make me do the things that I shouldn't have? Of course not. Before I could recover from the damage that relationship did to me, I had to acknowledge my own complicity in what happened. <br />
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Thanks again for an interesting read.

They are able to manipulate you because you are A DECENT HUMAN BEING. I don''t think you should blame yourself too much for that. You probably didn't know people could behave that way, and now that you know, you won't be easily fooled again, as the Who say!

@ Couloir.... you say "I don't consider myself sociopathic because I do feel remorse after doing something harmfu" what sort of things are you referring to, how harmful has it gotten?

Good points, all around. Babushka, I am sorry to hear that, about your mother. Glad to hear you don't share her experience, however. :-) <br />
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Still waiting on gewissenlos's comments, however, I believe we've been deserted. :-) Ever the elusive mind of a sociopath. <br />
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Couloir, you make very good points, throughout the discussion. I do believe there are clear differences between psychopaths and sociopaths. However, I don't personally believe that violence itself is a factor; rather, the consistency of it and it's purpose. You make a good point of the person you mention in Hare's book -- a very intelligent read from a very intelligent author, may I add :-) -- this person you mention, I would call a definite Psychopath. I believe sociopaths are a tad bit more aware... at least, after having had some experience. This is where I was going when I said that psychopaths are generally "lacking" in intelligence in some form or another. Perhaps, a different kind of intelligence, better put as a lack of "understanding". Couloir, I see you share my interest and passion for psychology, then? :-)<br />
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Oh. And babushka... It's fair to assume that gewissenlos's honesty can be attributed to the fact that we do not actually know who he is, nor will we ever find out! Perhaps this is an outlet for him. Besides that, who's to say the degree of honesty being shared? A true sociopath is only honest at times, when it cannot be traced back to him, and only in intervals -- they tire of it quickly, in my experience. :-) And even then, there is a tinge of lies bordering the truth. Perhaps even as minimal as sugar-coating or exaggeration. This isn't always purposeful, it is simply their nature... Mostly, they cannot even be honest with themselves. Then again, it's rare for anyone to be completely honest with him or herself. <br />
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There's a saying... you can't say you know a person until you've seen to the bottom of a barrel of salt. For two reasons: 1- It takes a long time. 2 - It's bitter all the way to the end. And even then, we can't be sure. <br />
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A person is worse than a Rubik's cube -- but at least in your lifetime, you have a good chance of solving at least one of the two. Guess which one. :-)<br />
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Couloir -- I like how you put that last paragraph. You say that a sociopath believes everyone is simply acting out love and affection without basis. Then they (the sociopath) figure out that there is something missing within, and scramble to hide it. I quote you because it's a great concept that I couldn't have said better myself.

thankyou for your comments cheerupemochic. Perhaps I should introduce myself and hope I am not intruding here. I am new to computers, this sight , let alone sociopaths. All of this can be overwhelming and even intimadating for me. I have no credentials to judge gewissenlos a nonsociopath. Credentials for the perpose of diagnoses are useless here. We must take him for his word. I would like to think that he is. I have many questions. I will content myself now with reading and learning. My experiance with sociopaths is real. My mother may have been a sociopath. I am comfortable that I am not. It is hard for me to accept gewissenlos as genuine because he is so, well- honest.

People with Narcissistic Personality disorder can lack empathy, and have sociopath-like traits. Also people with Borderline Personality Disorder. My mother was very narcissistic, and could lack empathy, but I don't believe she lacked feelings. My stepbrother's father, however, was a sociopath who was highly intelligent, and socially very popular and likeable. But he cheated his own son out of an inheritance that would have paid for his education. He also sexually abused a sibling from a very young age, and cheated on my mother many times. The man was a monster, but would not have seemed that way to most people. Despicable. Horrible. The damage he did to other people's lives was incalculable, and he felt no remorse for any of it. He also escaped responsibility for any of it.They all do a lot of damage, but the smart ones always operate below the radar, and don't break any laws someone would actually come after them for. We didn't actually know what he did to my sister until she was in high school. He started the abuse when she was 3 YEARS OLD! So these people here saying they are sociopaths, but seem well-adjusted with no anti-social behavior - well, I just don't believe it!

From what I've read on the literature surrounding sociopathy some sociopaths are self-aware enough to know what they are, while others are completely oblivious to their condition. Robert Hare describes in one of his books a psychopath who was convicted of murdering a bartender. The psychopath insisted that he was the one to be pitied, since the bartender, being dead, was not caged in a jail cell and unhappy like him. This is an example of a psychopath who isn't even aware of having done anything wrong, since his sympathy is limited to himself only.<br />
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As an aside--there's a raging debate about the difference between sociopaths and psychopaths. The definition I've taken from all this is that a sociopath is not violent, whereas a psychopath has much stronger sadistic and violent tendencies, like Jeffrey Dahmer.<br />
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I had a friend who was a sociopath but he seemed unaware of it. I think he was still at that stage where he believed that everyone is hypocritically acting out love and affection and pretending to have deep feelings. I think at some point in life most sociopaths realize there is something missing in them that other people have. Then they scramble to hide it from others so nobody will find out that they're different.

Immaturity can often look like sociopathy. It's been suggested that the adolescent brain works like the sociopathic brain, but outgrows it.

@ babushka: on another note entirely, I find one part of your comment particularly appealing: Sociopaths see themselves as normal and incapable of anti-social behavior. <br />
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I apologize ahead of time if I sound anything but curious, but my question is this: Incapable, really? I don't understand what you mean by this. Wouldn't a sociopath have to see himself as capable, in order to actually be one, and to be capable of doing what he does? After all, what he does will eventually become apparent to him, without the mention of others around him. Then, wouldn't conclusions be drawn? Or is your theory this: they would ultimately be intrigued by the idea, without ever accepting it? DOES a sociopath know what he is doing, when he does it? Or does he ignore the implications? On the other hand, one must be well-informed if he is to manipulate... manipulation is key, in this area. ...Hm. <br />
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We're beginning to broach iconoclastic mental territory here. Just another part of the spectrum. Very interesting.<br />
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Anyone's thoughts are welcome... Interested in hearing opinions.

@ babushka: :-) Mostly just group intellectual bullshit. No head games, at least none from me. The only "head game" here is trying to understand one another's points of view and experiences. Hence, the experience project website. <br />
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You provide us with a new opinion... you say gewissenlos is not a sociopath. I am curious what credentials, or if none, what experiences you have to validate this idea? I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with that. You also say a sociopath is unable to see themselves for what they are. Is this necessarily true? I don't know. I would like to see gewissenlos respond to your comment. I wonder if you are perhaps confusing a sociopath and psychopath? In defense of their abilities to recognize themselves: There was a recent documentary presented on one of the science cable networks giving us a peek into the mind of Jeffrey Dahmer. He was able to identify himself for what he was, even during his "peak point". However, Dahmer is far down the social spectrum with a grouping of characteristics one would label with Psychopathy. This is slightly different. Please read my earlier comment regarding the "social spectrum", if I am being unclear or short with explaining my thoughts. In response to your comment, "...presents himself as what we would like a sociopath to be [...] rational conversation..." -- this is where I have to ask if you are perhaps thinking of psychopathic qualities? I believe conversations Can be had with most individuals. However, there is always the factor and degree of honesty which must be put to consideration. For the most part, one cannot tell when another is honest, so the best attempt one can make would be simply to gather information and try to put the puzzle pieces together so to make them fit. However, in my experience, no puzzle pieces "fit" entirely when dealing with people. Only guesses can be made, in cases like this. In any case, I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences. <br />
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@ gewissenlos: I'd be interested in seeing your reply to babushka's comment in general. Your experience validates another person's points of view whom I've had extended experiences with over the course of some years. This person shares your points of view and experiences to a high degree. I would not classify this person as dangerous at all. Capable of feeling? Maybe. Perhaps only to an extent. Very similar to your experience. Previously I've attributed this to a basic immaturity of empathic qualities, not necessarily a lack-thereof entirely, however, my judgment shifts as I gain new knowledge into the character as a whole. A sociopath is generally known to "play a role." Perhaps here lies the answer. Your interest in empathy is thought-provoking. After all, you seem to be sustaining a relationship without need for financial gain or seemingly any other sort. From what I gather, it is simply for the sake of admiration and perhaps other, more "human" reasons, from what I suspect. I'd have to think some more on this before I made any sort of hypothesis, I simply don't have enough knowledge. Therefore, I am gathering information. However, you share many experiences with others of similar qualities. Would I consider them sociopaths? Again, I do not know.... <br />
I'd be interested in hearing your response to babushka's statements. <br />
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All in all, this is turning out to be quite the conversation...

First of all, I really dont know what is going on here. Head games or group intellecual ************ maybe? gewissenlos is not a sociopath. Sociopaths see themselves as normal and incapable of antisiocel behavor. They see others as abnormel. gewissenlos presents himself as what we would like a sociopath to be if we were to have a rational conversation with one. However, I think he gives some thought provoking ideas.

I wish I had known about it sooner as well. It would have saved a lot of people a lot of heartache

Hi, New to Experiance Project ( my first post) and only recently aquinted with the concept of sociopathic behavior. Wish I had known about this condition years ago.

Hi, New to Experiance Project ( my first post) and only recently aquinted with the concept of sociopathic behavior. Wish I had known about this condition years ago.

Yes, I have some curiosity about killers, especially those that are deranged. I don't consider myself sociopathic because I do feel remorse after doing something harmful, but I don't mind seeing a sadistic killer be killed in the way he had killed his victims. In fact it wouldn't be bad to watch. Even people with empathy can put that aside given the right circumstances, like Romans at the Colosseum watching prisoners getting ripped apart by animals. Especially in cases where it's justified, like in the case of a psychopathic killer, I believe it would be better to revoke the 8th amendment about gov't not inflicting "cruel and unusual punishment" on felons. Islamic law is much better in this case--"an eye for an eye" is the best way to punish the worst offenders of society. And I wouldn't mind buying a ticket to watch the show.

@cheerupemochic,<br />
I suppose you are correct to an extent. We enjoy how other people make us feel and this makes us want to keep them around in relationships. There is an important difference: When your lover or partner is down, sad or angry for whatever reason then it transfers to you and you wonder why your partner feels that way. With me it simply does not happen. It's not that I don't care about what this person has to say but I simply can't feel it. I have tried and in the midst of break-ups or other emotional crises, I often wonder why I am unable to feel what my girlfriend of the time is feeling. I often wonder why she picks such a late hour to announce these things when I want to sleep. I sometimes do make the mistake of falling asleep while she's pouring her heart out. (Falling asleep while somebody is doing the emotional thing is a bad idea. They will resort to violence when you do that and they think I'm the bad guy!)<br />
So, to reiterate: This ability to feel bad when the person feels bad is the "empathy" part that I am missing. Real people and not just cardboard cutouts like me enjoy helping their partners through tough times because they feel as if they are one. Unfortunately for me I won't know what this. I just marvel at it when I recognise that it's taking place. I really don't know how it works and I am a bit curious about how others share in each other's suffering and pain. I sometimes wonder.<br />
Do I like myself or dislike myself? It's a little tough to answer. I stated in my story that I love who I am. It's somewhat true. I get bouts of depression from time to time. It's not so much that I hate myself but that I hate that I am unable to live up to how I imagine myself. I think my current station in life is pathetic and beneath where I really ought to be. I have the feeling that I will die just as pathetic as I am now. As it stands, I am not living a bad life but I want so much more. My reasons for disliking myself have nothing to do with other people or how they perceive me.

My only other question, if you're inclined to answer it, I've saved for last: You dislike yourself. Why? <br />
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If I can offer some speculation: For your limitations of being a human being (I've heard this before), for your lack of humanity, or something different entirely?

gewissenlos, that is not much different from average humanity, then. I would like to see even the most empathetic person disagree with this statement: the truth about empathy and love, the real truth, is that love isn't about the other person. it's about how they make you feel about yourself.<br />
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Actually, just be aware that when two people start feeling attracted to each other, it's never about the other person; it's how that person feels about himself/herself when around the other. What that means is, contrary to public perception, it's not the clothes you wear, the skin you show, or how interesting you are. If you make a person feel intelligent, important, attractive, interesting, funny, etc. around you, he'll seek you out and want to be around you. It's just that simple. Friendship and love in general, sadly, are NOT about the other person. Bottom line is, it's how they make you feel about yourself. <br />
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Therefore, still, I do not see MUCH of a difference between average "empathetic" people, and sociopaths. It's simply the degree or extent to which "it" (whatever IT is) is desired, what the "IT" is, for what purpose, and Ultimately: if they are willing to give in return, or grow attached and feel a need to reciprocate -- a thin line between free "giving" of care, and the definition of guilt of receipt... is to give back. So it would be safe to say under those speculations that the only clear-cut definition I can come up with for any difference, is guilt, or the lack thereof. <br />
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And I would tend to agree with you. There is a capacity we all have to kill, given the circumstances. The division roots back to, again, guilt, or perhaps even pity. I don't believe "pity" would be in the emotional makeup of a sociopath either. Then again, a lot of "us" only have that to a certain degree. Which only proves my point further: there are no clear-cut definitions or boundaries in humanity, only an inter-mingling spectrum of characteristics. Simply put, any given person may or may not have these characteristics, but a sum of the "negatives" may make up a less empathetic person -- the Anti-Social Personality. <br />
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Having said all that, it only deepens the confusion. I wish people were logical creatures to be logically explained and understood, but sadly, we are not. Fair to say that humanity is an art, until it becomes a science we can explain, if that ever happens... Wish I had a conclusion to this tirade... I suppose I'll hunt for it forever. :-) ...Until, and if ever, I can find a formula, that is. For this, I fear I would need a mind greater than my own... I am beginning to suspect that Psychology is like religion: when people cannot explain something, they seek to explain it within their own reasoning, therefore labeling these characteristics of the human spectrum and later categorizing them into definitions such as: Sociopath. Perhaps Psychology is our new religion?<br />
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Even the need to make another feel wanted or appreciated can be explained as a selfish act: You, the giver, has a need for that person, therefore you give to appease. When that need evaporates, either attachment and care (love) replace it, or not. Humanity is a selfish species, like any other, or perhaps more so. In the end, we are still only intelligent animals. The only difference is, we seek to understand and to gain knowledge of the world that surrounds us. <br />
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That said, I still do not see how Sociopaths interweave with Psychopaths. I still believe they are far different from each other, if only for the fact that sociopathic qualities belong to all of us, whilst Psychopathic tendencies are far more advanced and lacking. I've seen a large margin of intelligent people with sociopathic qualities. It's typical for a sociopath to be intelligent, rather than not. However, many psychopaths lack basic intelligence, though this isn't a factor as it seems to be for the sociopath. Again, the only things I can see that separates us all in the end, are guilt, remorse, and empathy.

Here's how I see it: Each and every one of you has the potential to kill. You might even do it. The only thing that sets remorseless individuals apart is that they won't feel bad after. The remorseless individual might very well be indifferent to the act. All this honesty is making me feel queazy. Killing and urges to kill is something that simply shouldn't be discussed here. I am a normal guy. I get upset and "act out" but then I always return to my unagitated state not long after this "acting out." I try not to "act out" where many witnesses will see my loss of control. You seem to have a morbid curiosity Couloir.