Is It Really O"gay"?

Well, I can thank you for not judging me for being a Christian and lumping me with judgemental, legalistic Christians, but still, I am ashamed that so called Christians could ever be cruel to some of the people like we did. But most Christians today have a world view and not everything you do is wrong, religious view. There are Christians now, who are saying the life they were living as a homosexual was vain and empty, now I wouldn't say that, but that's from their own mouth. What do you think they are talking about? I wouldn't know, because I'm attracted to women. I'm not doing this to say I'm right, I promise you I am just stating what I believe, and no one has to like it. I can understand if people would be offended, and I stand for no discrimination against your beliefes, I promise.

Ye as I said I certainly cant judge anyone. But I will continue to point out that the Christian church's { all of them } as intitutions have done the most criminal and down right Satanic things and have gotten away with it all ! I would encourage you to read up on the Fourth crusade begun by Pope Innocent iii, { innocent my *** } and the various inquisitions which dragged on for centuries, even St Joan of Arc { a French Saint } was burnt at the stake for heresy. All the churches are up to their eyeballs in murder, racism, theft, sex scandals and evil.

This is the one big reason why I ignor what the Pope, and any Catholic Priest or protestant say's particularly about me as a gay man. God made me this way and if its wrong then boy oh boy did He screw up. I simply now just go to Mass, say my prayers then forget about the Church as a body and its hypocracy.

About those Christians who say they have wasted their time here on earth, I think maybe they partied way too much, I'm not sure you would have to ask them.

God bless

I don't really agree with everything with the Catholic church, because who was the ones burning people at the stake for what they believed? They are one-sided sometimes, though I most certainly don't judge modern day saints from Catholism. Those that have wasted their time, mm, good point, I think those who have wasted their time have not really made impacts on other's lives, which some say is impossible. It's only impossible when they are sitting on the couch, watching TV and eating bon-bons all day. One thing I can side with Ghandi, is if you want to see a change, you got to be that change. Yes, many have partied and thought of themselves, when I look at this world, I see people that may need a friend. And I want to be likeminded like Christ, not what people say Christ is, because Christ came to be a friend, he didn't come to damn people, he came to love them. People don't see that. He loves homosexuals and straights alike, but Christianity really is just a big controversy. And I hate to see it like that. Everyone thinks I mean harm and really, I promise I don't.

I hear what you have said and I have to agree with you on all points you brought up.

We as very ordinary people or Christians can make a huge impact on the lives of others. In all our neighborhoods we have the elderly, the widowed and widowers, the sick, the poor and just plain lonley. Too many people, not just the party and fashion mad gays, but straights too could not give a damn about those in the world who are going through hard times. Yes couch potatoes don't help anyone!

The churches all too many of them are fake and their histories are steeped in evil. As I said I now just go to Mass, I ignor the priests homily, I say my prayers, take communion and leave. I guess I love God but the more I think about it I hate the church's and their hypocracy.

I am not racist or discriminating any personal convictions, beliefs or anything like that, I'm not going to bully, torment, beat on or even turn my back on any homosexual. I am against those who ridicule the person, and think it is devastating that any person has to be tormented. But everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe, and if a person wants to be married to same sex, that is ultimately their decision in the long run, it is a free country, at least for right now. But sometimes it comes across that we cannot have a right to believe in God or Jesus or the Bible, because it shows disrespect to homosexuals, yet that is what we believe. Unfortunetely, not all Christians are on the same page. I am one that will not turn my back on any person for who they are. Some will. I have homosexuals in my family, and watching is what I decided. I do believe in traditional marriage, that's my decision for myself, I'm not making a decision for you or anyone else.

Well it is good that you are not openly discriminating, but understand this: you claim to not make the decision, but we live in a representative democratic country (the USA) and technically, your opinions come as a representation, to me, as a lot of the youth in this country. You are making the decision, or will once you are able to vote. You will, I am assuming, vote against my right to marriage, and that is discriminatory, if you mean it to be or not. You need to understand that once you are 18, you will have a fraction of the country in YOUR hands. Think about that, its a big deal. But more big is the fact that we claim to be a free country, yet we are not. Just as anti-slavery, and the rights for women to vote, homosexual marriage is becoming more and more of a reality. But we are still not there yet. I know you believe that God intended for Man and Woman to be together, but I ask you this: should we not have freedom of religion? Or should we run our country as a Christian country, assuming that all people living there are or should be Christian? I am a Buddhist. Do you believe I should not be?
Young man, you seem like a perfectly reasonable person, but I want you to really THINK about it. When it comes down to it, you are forcing your religious beliefs upon others against their will, which it sounds like, is against your mortality. To the core of it, no matter how open you are about it, denying someone their basic human rights is discrimination in every way. Seriously, please think about it.

I understand, And I never intend to offend anyone. A lot of my family doesn't even vote, and I'll probably be one of them. I think our government is screwed up, I have a feeling that soon we'll be back in a 1929 Great Depression. And not because of voting on gay marriage, just because of all the things our money is going to. And just as I have rights to be Christian, you have every right to be Buddhist and a homosexual. I am sorry for any offense.

Well not to be mean, but not respecting my rights is offensive.

I find it offensive that I am not allowed to believe in Christ, because when I do, I AM FRAMED OF BEING A RACIST! But I think this government is racist toward Christians. Not to be mean.

Racist towards Christians? That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard! For one, racism involves actual races! Not religions, the proper word would be prejudice.
And for two: over 80% of this country is Christian, and most of the government is. I don't know about Freeintibet, but you can be openly Christian with my support until you use it to promote discrimination, at which point I cannot respect or support your religious views. Sorry, but homophobia IS mean.

I don't write on here for any attention or to rally against homosexuals, because people are people. But if I believe in Christ, I am considered prejudice without even being questioned. Here's the issue, and you cannot deny this. This government and this nation are built on useless, prejedice racial issues, should it be legalized for man and man and woman and woman to be married? When they should be focused on the welfare of Israel. And that 20% of what is not Christian, is pretty strong. And most Christians are pliable, I am not. I stand for my freedom of religion. Just as you do, and I respect that. So on that we are the same. But I wont stand by without a fight as I watch my freedom being taken away.

Mate you can believe in Christ, dont let these ignorant fools tell you otherwise. They are just confusing the evil actions of the churches with God.

Your freedom of religion? Young man, this is a Christian-based nation, and you are very confused. People are not trying to take away you're religion! Also, yes do spend money on the welfare of a different country, when children HERE are starving, women HERE are being forced into prostitution, 10% of HERE aren't allowed equality. Son, we are still fighting battles in our country, and need to focus on that above others. Are you better than me because you were brought up Christian? Because trust me, if you were brought of Muslim you would be that.
Look kid, no one is saying you can't have your own opinions, your own religion, but don't try to take away other people simple rights then blame THEM for being prejudice? Get a hold of yourself, wake up! You are promoting discrimination, you are promoting ignorance! Do you really think Christ would support homophobia? Do you know anything about Christ?!
By the loveboardercollies, you know nothing about anything. Yes we are ignorant for wanting equal rights! Sure, go with that.
Look, you can't expect us to accept intolerance of differences, that is just wrong.

Thanks. God has nothing to do with the crap that goes on with things in the world today. Some profess to be Christians, but resolve nothing to even act how Christ acted, which makes the job of witnessing a whole lot harder. Because everyone thinks it's a game of favorites and pointing fingers, when on my part, it is not.

I have no intentions of the sort of taking away any freedoms of any kind, and when I see crap like starving children, slavery, woman being forced into prostitution, and here everyone is pointing fingers saying, 'they are taking away our rights!' and all that whatnot, and certain Christians making remarks that slam homosexuality, (which I condemn a lot of Christians for certain things), I think we are fighting the wrong battles, if we only had the same government as when we first started this country, we would be fine. But when you ask God to leave, something else evil and unorthodox comes in, everyone is blinded that there are things falling apart underneath their feet and when they see it, it will be too late. And though the Bible says nothing about homosexuality being wrong, he does say that he designed the man for the woman, he never says anything about same sex, but I believe in man and woman being together. That is my business. And I kind of like the stands loveboardercollies made. I love boarder collies too!

Look, we seem mostly on the same page, you just are confused. But even if your God does exist, why would he/she create gays in the first place? You are not supporting equal rights, which even though your heart is in the right place, is wrong.

I'm sure somewhere we agree on something, but one thing I'll leave it at, what others do is not my business, and what I do is no one else's business. I definitely believe in God, because I have seen things in my life, there is no way I would never deny there is a God. A supreme being, more powerful than anything, but the Bible never mentions him creating homosexuals. I think we created that, to try to be a little different. That's just my opinion, it probably ain't much.

Yes, but you don't know enough on the topic to have an educated opinion. I don't hate you, but at the same time please respect that I'M homosexual, and I have been harassed and bullied throughout my life to the point of wanting to take my own life! I would not choose that! That would be like saying I chose to be asian because I wanted to be different. (studies suggest sexuality is determined genetically and hormonally, but we are not positive yet.)
Anyways, just understand that I am a real person, and I deserve real rights, just like you. It shouldn't matter what my sexual orientation is. Thanks for responding in a civilized, respectable manner.

Yes ma'am, I understand how being bullied is, ain't no picnic, and I myself have been to the point of ending it all. I am friends with homosexuals, and I strongly agree they have rights. Oh and my pleasure, I never bash anyone, I try and respect people all the time. :)

well that's good. make sure you follow through with that.

Hello there. The Bible is filled with confusing things, but about that whole women keeping quiet and stoning children, things have changed since those terrible times. Then, there was really no freedom, everyone was in bondage. And it was WRONG for any stupid man to have the kind of control on a woman. And I would say the children would be traitors, which happened a lot then. Though stoning I would say is not the right thing. God never said to stone a child. He said to discipline, but that does not mean abuse or kill. I don't read the Bible like it's just another book, I read it because it's the Book that speaks truth. I read my Bible all the time, without it, I'd be nowhere. And no offence, but I do pray that whenever you are reading the Bible, you find there is truth. Thanks for your comment.

If there is a God, i know that he or she absolutely supports fundamental rights because he or she would have created those rights. It doesn't make any sense to me, think about it. Now I support everyone's rights, and it is your right to have freedom of opinion. But I cannot respect your opinion because I know its wrong. I am sorry but your response does not make sense. Please try to understand that I mean no wrong. I just hope you can wake up a little. :)

I understand, and no, I would never pick a fight. But as you said, we still have freedom to believe what we believe in, and I won't disrespect that. I believe in a God of love and compassion who gives us choices of how we so choose to live our lives, and what I am living my life is what I believe to be fitting for me. And if anyone doesn't agree with it, that's fine. I don't shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. The only reason I believe in God, is because I have felt his peace in my life when things have gone wrong. I feel I wasn't alone. It's okay, bro. I know you mean no wrong. :)

But what does that have to do with gay people? Don't they have those rights too?

They have their rights, yes. I am not against their freedom. What I was really pointing at the dangers of wanting to be one, not bashing them as people. As I said, I am friends with some and they are some very great people. But now, one has to wear a bag, because of what happened to him in intercourse. He is suffering. I just don't think it's safe. That's why I am against gay marriage, not gays, because it has a downfall on their health. I promise, I'm not a stuck up, two faced Christian, I'm just one that is concerned for other's health.

You keep telling yourself that, maybe one day you'll manage to convince yourself of it.

Yes, and I'll keep saying that, but say like Chick-fil-a for example, Dan Cathy, the founder's son, just stated what he believed, he said he believes in the traditional marriage, between man and woman. And that is his freedom of religion, and then low and behold, he has a whole posse after him, saying they are going to boycott his business, even though he said NOTHING about discriminating homosexuals, he just stated what he believes, just like homosexuals have the freedom to do, but Christians don't, because when they speak, it is considered "racial". Why am I not free to believe in what I want to believe? Just because I believe in traditional marriage does not mean I am bashing gays or lesbians. And if it weren't for traditional marriages, where would the human race be? If someone who is a man falls in love with another man, it is his right whether he wants to love this man. But I have rights to fall in love with a woman. It's not hard to understand, it is simple, just like that.

why do you keep deleting this? It makes you seem like you don't know what you are talking about, oh wait, you don't. Fine, be immature, but it is MY rights you are against, and I care!

Deleting what? If I don't know anything, than you all do? No man knows anything, but I know God knows all things, and I believe in what he says, and I believe in traditional marriage and sex, and nothing can change my mind. You care about your rights, and I care about mine. And its true, people like me are losing our rights, and since you stand against me, you won't see that, but I do see it, because if you go and mention Christ in public, you can get in trouble for disturbing the peace. But if a man kisses a man, it's not considered that.

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous, and not true. That is all I have to say, because you obviously are just copying your parental views. I hope one day you will adopt your own.

Really my main wonder is, what is your opinion on Ray Bolz? I don't want to sit and point out everything bad he's done, cause we all do wrong. But is it ok to leave your wife of 32 years for a man? Just curious :P

Your last statement makes no sense within the context. No offense dude, but you don't know what you are talking about. Marriage is not natural at all, it was just society's way of selling women in the beginning, and has evolved since then to become a major part of our society. Your argument that "traditional" marriage between a man and woman is more natural is invalid. Christians bash gays, kill gays and are homophobic to gays every single day, and although not all Christians are like that, the ones who are are morally wrong. You cannot successfully deny that without being out of your right mind. No one here is against your religion, but against the fact that you use your religion to promote prejudices. It's not hard to understand, its as simple as that.

It only makes sense to those who understand it. I've studied Christianity and am rooted in all the words in red and stuff like that in the Bible. I know what Christ said, and Christ isn't a dummy. And yeah, I cannot deny some Christians have gone too far, but those who stand against homosexuality, are accused of being racist. That is discrimination in simple manor.

I have studied Christianity too, I just thought I should get that out there. No one is saying you are racist, please stop using that word. Racist refers to race, homophobia refers to sexual orientation. By being against homosexuals' rights, I believe the usual term is homophobic, but for you that isn't really an appropriate term for you personally, because like you said, you have friends who are gay and I am sure you aren't really against them as people. Still, sexual orientation is a part of who you are as a person, it can't be changed or reversed. I feel like you think we, freeingtibet and I, are out to get you. It isn't that. It's more about right and wrong, it's about civil rights. Here's a cool deff from the dictionary for you:
Civil rights
The rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality.

At the moment gays are treated as second class citizens. Is that not morally wrong? You keep speaking of these morals you have, but show us by suprting equality even when it isn't main stream to do so. Even if your church disagrees, because Jesus, your role model, he changed his religion based on the evolution of society. Sometimes things are outdated, we don't still go around wearing only one fiber at a time, and the husbands don't "rule" over the wives anymore. No one's asking you to change your religion, I know loads of religious people who support gays and lesbians, simply because it is the right thing to do. Hate crimes against these second-class citizens are everywhere now. Two women holding hands once got shot, a gay boy (still pretty young) was tied up to a fence by straight men and beaten to death, a poll on the internet was taken about whether or not a lesbain teenags should kill herself or not. They said she should, because she was just a stupid ******. These hate crimes will continue until we as a country, as a beautiful nation decide to make them stop, by supporting civil rights once and for all. This is a lot bigger than you or me, this is a world issue! In some countries being gay is a crime punishable by death! Let's stop this! This IS discrimination.
I am not asking you to change your religion, or even change all your views on homosexuality all at once, but please, for those women, for that little boy, for that poor teenage girl, just relook at it, with different eyes. It isn't about whether your religion says yes or no, in the long run. It's just about treated people how YOU want to be treated. It's about equality, it's about humanity.

And that statement about how people wanting to be treated was said by Jesus himself, so yes, I can still accept people without killing them. Those people who were gay and were beaten or worst, they were not Christian.

It's not only about not killing them, it's about treated them as regular citizens, like you and me. What does it matter what religion those poor people were?

I think that people really like to hear the sound of their own voice, to blend in and raise ruckus. I'm not out to discreminate or to be racial to any human, I'm just stating really what I am for myself. I really choose to abstain from the arguments of polotics and religion, but whenever it concerns you, then we're all dragged into it. And as I said, I'm not out to be mean to anybody. I just am naturally attracted to the opposite sex. Thx 4 ur comment.

Arguing just to argue? How about arguing because its about our constitutional rights we're talking about! The problem with civil unions, as I have mentioned before, is that legally the two are not considered family. Therefore, say one of them is dying, and only "family" may say goodbye, the two will never get to see each other again, which by exact circumstance has happened many times.
Look Underthescars, you seem like a nice kid. But the truth is, without meaning to be, you are being pretty offensive. I don't think you are even aware of it. So my suggestion would be to go study the topic, learn about gays and the constitution outside of school or church, and stop echoing your parental views. Once you are educated you should rejoin the conversation, because it is very political, and can get pretty messy. otherwise please don't voice your opinions against a group you don't know much about, that is just ignorant. :) You have my best of luck on the education thing!

Where is this misconception coming from. Marriage has been around far longer than most of the religions practiced today.

My mistake. I wrote that reply in a hurry and didn't clarify properly.

Marriage has long existed within and without religion. The ceremony, the wedding ceremony, is nearly always a religious thing. It is the arguing over the ceremony that I have trouble with. If a religion doesn't consider it within their teachings to perform a ceremony that is their business. The people that want to get hitched can seek out a church/religion that fits their beliefs and lifestyle. I don't think the government should be able to mandate a church has to do said ceremony, and I don't think that the government should be able to withhold benefits because a church wouldn't perform it for a couple.

I agree.

Ah, you stated that you are attracted to people of the opposite sex. We gay guys are born with a same sex attraction, we did not, just like yourself choose to be gay. I mean just think what sane person would choose to be gay. With all the crap and harrasment from the church and society.

Life for you straight guys is just so easy by comparisson. What we have to put up with would do your head in. Infact many guys are driven to suicide by their families, Churches, and cowardly bullies.

Marriage in Biblical times was all about ownership. A dowry was paid and then basicaly the woman was then the property of her husband. In time I hope you will study ancient history and you will understand what I am saying.

Marriage for much of the western world has evolved and changed a heck of a lot. Biblical marriage is simmilar to how it is today for Orthodox Jews, Muslims and Marionite Catholics in the middle east. And even simialr to Afganny marriages. Women were, and still are owned. Quite a difference to the romantic style we are so used to seeing nowadays.

I am not arguing just to argue, I am stating what I believe, without intentions of peeing every homosexual on this site off. I have studied outside of church and school, have made my own mind up, because my parent(s) don't control me. My dad is bi. And it's not because of him I stand against it. It's my decision.

Indeed, I am strongly against those Christians that provoke souls enough to the point of taking their own lives. But what I state has nothing to do with them. And all I have to say is, life is easy for guys who are straight? Like hell it is. We still have to face problems in life just like everyone else, we don't stand out. You all aren't the only ones who have to face ridicule. You think I'm too special to be bullied? Jesus was bullied. It's nothing different

For a very long time, and simply, it was between man and woman. And that's what I believe. STRONGLY. But God forbid, I say anything and start a riot. :)

Looks like I need to clarify again. I am all for official recognition of any mixture of unions: Male-female, female-female, male-male, mmf, ffm, etc. And I think that the government should recognize them equally - don't see how it's their business who hooks up with who anyway. I only have a problem with it when people try to force churches to perform ceremonies they don't believe fit their teachings.

There is such a mixed denomination of churches, and everyone is confused. You got some saying it's okay, say to **********, because if it makes you happy, that's what Jesus wants. If you want to screw another woman while you married, well you're happy? Then do it! And then they pray for you when you get a sexually transmitted disease. I am a Christian that disagrees with any such thing. Everyone is scattered, because if they truly knew Christ, they would quit trying to modernize everything.

Truly know Christ? What Christ are you talking about, because Jesus was all for helping the poor, and he modernized religion. Before some people thought you had to pay to get in to "heaven." Jesus modernized that!

I am talking about THE Christ, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I am for helping the poor, I am for helping those in need. And most homosexuals are NOT poor, you all get the governments support and money, Christians get nothing. He was not judgemental, he was easier to get to, and Catholics originated the crap where you have to pay to get into heaven, I believe in confessing he is God's son, I'm not sold into Christianity, I'm bought, by Christ's blood.

You do not know anything you are talking about! i am sorry, but this is impossible, you are so uneducated on this topic, which considering you are under aged is not your fault. Kid, our taxes go to the church, no motives asked about what they use it for! Just because blacks aren't poor doesn't mean you can be racist towards them! Thats dumb. You cannot support equality or civil rights to only SOME people, that is missing the point! It doesn't matter WHAT your precious book says about it, humanity and civil rights cannot be compromised morally, so stop pretending to be moral! You aren't! I seriously suggest you stop repeating the babble of your guardians and get actual, educated opinions. Until then, bye!