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This Might Be Controversial.

I am agnostic, another way of putting it would be on the fence I suppose. 

Is there a God? The most honest answer I can give to that question is I don't care.

There I said it, I don't care. At this point it wouldn't matter anyway. There are those that would deny his existence even if he appeared in front of them, and there are those that would hold onto their belief in a God even if it was proved beyond a doubt that he didn't exist. That's the trouble with Faith, it denies facts. This is why I am more trusting in opinions and ideas, they can be easily updated and changed.   

As Tim Minchen put it:

 "Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.
If you show me
That, say, homeopathy works,
Then I will change my mind
I’ll spin on a ******* dime
I’ll be embarrassed as hell,
But I will run through the streets yelling
It’s a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And while it’s memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is Infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it’s had in it!

You show me that it works and how it works
And when I’ve recovered from the shock
I will take a compass and carve Fancy That on the side of my ****.”

However, that is not to say that I believe faith to be a necessarily a bad thing. It brings comfort to millions, it helps people through difficult times, it gives strength. But when it is unbending in the face of fact and logic, it scares me.

 

As to my views on God? Like I say, I don't know if he exists. But if he does I would hope that he is not arrogant enough to care if he is worshiped. Or if you eat fish on Fridays, or grow a beard. I would hope he is not petty enough to care what you wear on your head or round your neck, who you love or who you have consensual sex with. 

I would hope he would be old and wise enough not to be vengeful or bigoted or to deny someone passage into heaven because a priest didn't splash water on their head when they were a baby. 

I think it silly to assume that someone/thing with the power to create the universe would have the flaws of a human being. 

 

 

Of course, this is only an opinion. I am capable of changing it. 

 

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I emailed my story to my brother in order to get feed back and his opinion. He wrote the following: -

 

 

"Nice one

 

 

My views are

 

If god is, infallible, omnipotent, omnipresent and above any conceivable thing to the human mind, I think you must be overtly narcissistic and vain to think you know how to please him/her/it.

 

And why live in fear of something you're not even sure of, why not live now and live well, rather than constrict your ventures and dreams to adhere to a monotheistic doctrine, that has been, altered of many years, by sexist males, bigoted nations and a conspiring church.

To have faith is to have a moral compass and that is fine. But if you build a belief structure upon it, then those morals get warped by power and ignorance.      

 

And if you want to show an outward display of your faith then think on this

 

Be nice to people

Love thy neighbour

DON’T TALK TO ME ABOUT IT! "

 

 

 

Figured I'd share.

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deleted deleted 26-30 17 Responses May 8, 2009

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Whatever preconceptions we may have of the divine, if it exists, they are ba<x>sed on our human experience.....not on any spiritual vision. We cannot know what "god" is truely like rather than what we think. We cannot separate our reality from "god's". For one who believes, has made the choice to do so from a human mind. As has one who does not believe. Religion has an obvious appeal for those who need it for their own reasons. It is when the reasoning is coerced on others that it becomes unappealing.

The way religion pictures God and how God actually is are 2 different things. Religion like any bussines will feed you anything to make you be under their influence.<br />
Also there is a saying that if you thread too deep into a belief it will blind you , rendering you unable to accept anything else.<br />
I'm not here to judge , believe what you think is right , but don't ignore something just because people make it look unappealing.

How is God really, in your opinion?

How do Agnostics live their life day to day? Under which premise do they function....with a belief in a god, a belief in belief, (theistic nontheless), or no belief in a god or belief in belief (Atheistic)?<br />
There is no fence one can stand on. Either you live according to theistic possabilities or you have discarded the possabilities. To say that there is not enough evidence to clearly prove the existance of a god yet provide for the possability (just in case) is little less than a Pascalian wager. Why not clearly state that at this time, you do not concede to the existance of a god? I suggest that there has never been a fence to protect one from taking full responsability for their choice. You cannot be half way there. No more than you can be half way pregnant. Either you are or you are not.

I am a parent. I love my children with all my heart. If I give my child a present, I expect a "thank you". I expect them to honor my husband and me. I do care what my children eat, I do not want them filling up on candy and chips. I care how they groom themselves, I don't want my child being the "stinky kid" I also do not want my young daughter wearing clothes that leave her breasts or *** hanging out. I do not want my daughter sleeping with whomever makes her feel good in the moment. <br />
I am just a mom, I can only see what is here in front of me. But I put these rules for my children because I love them. Gods love is perfect, unlike mine. Why is it unreasonable for Him to have rules? We would not let our children run wild, why would He allow his?<br />
By the way, you do not go to hell because you didn't get water splashed on your head, or because you eat fish. Please remember, just because someone says they are a Christian does not mean they are. I have heard of awful things done in Gods name. There are so many who have lost their way,

lkl X

There are 12 major religions. There are many factions of each, but there are 12 majors. <br />
Each religion has a following that is absolutely certain their religion is the correct true religion. <br />
Christens reject 11 major religions as false and absurd. I just reject one more religion than christens. I reject all 12 as false and absurd. <br />
Christens are Christians because that is what they were taught from childhood because of where they were born. If you were born in a different region you would probably be a different religion and believe just as strongly in it.<br />
People did not become a Christians by researching all 12 religions and choosing the Christen religion. Just like all the other 11 major religions did not investigate any of the other options.<br />
The truth is, there are no supernatural gods of any kind in any religion. There are no devils, no demons no satins. These were created by primitive man out of FEAR of the unknown. The Sun, bad weather, Lightning and Thunder, Solar eclipses and many other mysterious and unexplainable things around them. They were scared and needed someone or some thing to protect them.<br />
<br />
The religions need to have a devil to blame when things go wrong. Religions cannot allow any blame to fall on their god. They have to have a devil to blame. <br />
Without a devil and a hell, the churches could not control the people and their entire religion would collapses.<br />
<br />
All religions believe God is:<br />
(1) All good.<br />
(2) All loving<br />
(3) All knowing<br />
(4) Perfect in every way<br />
(5) Created all men equally.<br />
<br />
Let’s expound on these points. I will start with two and let’s hear more from you.<br />
<br />
(1) All Good.<br />
<br />
If I were God I personally would love my creations (humans) equally and not let them suffer in any way. I would not make them prove their loyalty to me by blind faith or by worshipping me or by building temples to honor and glorifying me. After all, by definition, I’m perfect I don’t need that.<br />
We do not do our children that way. We love them unconditionally just as a real God would do, if there was one.<br />
<br />
Let’s take a look at (3) All knowing.<br />
<br />
If God were “All knowing” then he would know the past, present and future. If he knows the future then he already knows your choice’s in life before you even do. He would already know who is going to “heaven” and who is going to “hell” before there even born. Remember, you said “God is perfect”, “God is all powerful”, “God is all knowing” <br />
So I ask, what is the point of life if the outcome is already known by “God” Why did he create us? Was he “lonely?” That’s a sign of imperfection. Why do we always refer to Gad as a male?<br />
<br />
Please feel free to expound on this line of thought.<br />
<br />
Wade.

Small problem. in order for your conclusion to be rational you need to prove there is no good reason God might have for permitting suffering in the world. Can you?

Hello everyone, I am an agnostic, the reason is because I don't know if God exists, it's not that I don't care, I just don't know and it's my humble opinion. What matters here is not religion, of who's wright or who's wrong, it's about being a good human, be nice to yourself so u can be nice to your neighbor.<br />
That is my opinion about God. About religions, that is something that I really don't care about, I accept people with other religions, I don't agree with them, but I accept them, what I don't accept is people trying to convince me of their believes or knocking on my door telling me that the world is gonna end if I don't believe!!!....This people think they are doing something productive collecting unemployment so they will have the time to go house by house reading passages. For this people: If you want to do something productive, go and plant a tree! That is what our planet needs, no more parasites.<br />
<br />
Thanks for your time. Have a nice weekend everyone.

Really? Can you take a moment and explain what’s so harmful about teaching these to others?

“YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? (Matthew 5:43-46)

"But now really put them all away from YOU, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of YOUR mouth. Do not be lying to one another. Accordingly, [] clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as Jehovah freely forgave YOU, so do YOU also. But, besides all these things, [clothe yourselves with] love, for it is a perfect bond of union." - Colossians 3:8,9, 12-14.

i totally agree

I believe your sentiments exactly,<br />
<br />
This is a world ruled by religion in one way or another. The majority of all conflicts are based on religion or something related to it. Simply finding the start of a religion in historry disproves it, unless that particular God or version of God did't exsist for multiple millinia before coming to exsistance. Our current troubles in this modern age is still fueled by religion (Islamofacism, Christian fanatasicm etc..) <br />
<br />
If the world just thought logicaly there would be alot less suffering

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Danton, Lenin, Than Shwe, Stalin, Mengele, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Ceausescu, Honecker, Castro, Pol Pot, Broz Tito, Milosevic, Bonaparte and Mussolini oppressive, sadistic, mass murdering, irreligious atheists who, collectively, butchered ***hundreds of millions*** of innocent men, women and children?

AMEN! I consider myself an agnostic as well but, my viewpoints are much more closely in line with that of your brothers. It provides me some comfort to believe there is something 'better' or 'bigger' than myself out there- vague, unknowable, unfathomable- just to believe, not to understand. When I stopped trying to 'think about it', I can allow 'it' to work or not work, in my life!

Interesting. If I may, how do you know when "it's" working or not working in your life?

Very interesting post, sleepless42. I class myself as agnostic very simply because I feel that nobody actually knows, it is only in death that you will definitively find out. My late mother had a belief, my late father didn't for virtually all his life, but I think started to have a belief near the end of his life (I know that sounds vague, but it's not something we ever talked about). I was brought up having a wishy-washy belief. I briefly went to a Christian fellowship over 20 years ago, but could not reconcile a number of their teachings (the usual ones, basically) with my own. <br />
Anyway, that's where I'm at one this one.<br />
all the best to everyone<br />
Mizzen123

If I may ask, what are your teachings and why are they incompatible with the Bible's?

FAITH is there so people HOPE they get to heaven. Its a story ppl have heard and are worried oh i dnt wana go 2 hell how can i get to heaven. Dey aint asking how ppl know it. Dey just wana make sure they do the rite thing to get wer they want.

Thing is, the doctrine of eternal torment in a fiery hell is a lie: http://bit.ly/148FwnL

Just want to lend my express my support for sleepless42's views expressed here. I am a "stealth Christian", a very active pornographer who was baptised voluntarily as an adult into the Catholic faith and has no way of explaining to any atheist why I believe. I'm actually feeling relieved to read this very reasoned viewpoint by an agnostic. <br><br />
I mean, saying that "there is no God" can't ever be more than a matter of mere belief, so I think think the door was always open for me. And well, I walked through it. I'm now the worst Catholic I know, but the religion does inform the way I deal with other people (for better or worse).<br><br />
And I agree with speechless42 that Darwin's theory is still... only a theory. But based on the "science" I know, it makes more sense to me than creationism. <br><br />
AP

Ooooh, good one sleepless!!<br />
<br />
Here is my problem with religion...people! One person reads the Bible and says "Oh, it's okay if I do this...." and another person reads it and says "No, you must never do that...". Which is it then? The whole thing is open to interpretation and to be perfectly honest I don't trust the people who translated it, the people who give you their interpretation of it or the people who commit acts in the name of it.<br />
<br />
Having said that I'm not closed to the idea of there being a God. I just don't think most people's concept of him (or her, or it) makes a whole lot of sense.

Instead of relying on the opinion of others, have you ever read the Bible for yourself in its entirety?

Apparently a lot of Americans do not believe in evolution. Whereas, its clear to any thinking person that evolution is not a theory, its common sense.

Absolutely! Because a universe from nothing by nothing for nothing makes a heck of a lot more sense than a life-sustaining universe as the denouement of an ordered mind.

Sleepless, you express yourself very well, but this is a topic that lets out the drama lamas. Yikes.

Just a question, but why do people assume 'God' is a 'he'?