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Pride

i am not always proud of what my country does, but i am proud of what it stands for... or is that used to stand for...
eyes eyes 31-35, F 61 Responses Oct 1, 2007

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I agree totally Karalas. When I was young there were all kinds of neighborhoods that we passed on our way to the relatives.There were also TONS of houses of every kind .They lived near work. Work that doesn't exist anymore. Everything is outsized. 20 years ago,you could support a family on what was made in the factory, or in the wharehouse. No more. I live in the suburbs near a river. The buildings have either been torn down or made into high end condo's. Very sad. can you imagine 10 years down the road if this keeps happening? I work in a school and believe me when I tell you there's a lot of kids in 6th,7th and 8th grades that are not going off to college. What are they going to do? Sell drugs?A lot of the people that would be working in the factories are doing just that or worse. They're not part of the American dream. They're numbers are growing.Heartbreaking when you know the potential but see the influences pulling them the other direction. These days kids have more money than a lot of adults. How? I have no idea. My kids never did. They're also more lost and misguided. When I write scathing stories about the state of our country,It's because I see,and hear, and talk to the "statistics" of drugs,unlimited gun laws, and whole communities that nobody wants to see,or hear,or be reminded other than making a racial slur.I get so angry and frustrated.When's the last time you saw anybody hunt with an uzi? This is the **** that makes me crazy! Anyway,I ramble. Keep writing.<br />
maureenb

Thank you Maureen. Don't forgot countries like Brazil are about 75 percent green already around 90 when it comes to the automobile industry. Wih as much tech and food surplus we have we could easily trade for the knowledge instead of having to spend the 20 to thirty years itt ook other countries to develop itself<br />
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The conversion over would also create industry in America which is something that is slowly dieing. Everyday we become more a country of commerce which leaves the lower more trade skilled oriented class stuck doing nothing but pumping gas. That is not a job to support a family. It wasn't when I was a kid and I am sure wages haven't gone up much for the job. It was the steel mill or the auto factory that kept the low income class going and we are losing those jobs in America due to outsourcing.

You two make good arguments. We've had so much time to switch to solar,wind,(yeah, like in Holland) and cars, and trucks,tractors,etc. that run on oil from Burger King and McDonalds. There's a farm about 45 min outside of Philly who's owner turned his whole farm into a green,$48.00 a month,house and farm. Complete with his truck, tractor,car, and heating and cooling units in his home and barns running only on French fry grease. Doesn't that deserve the attention of either the government or a big business to take it farther?It also burns clean. Anyway Karalas,you speak very clearly about what you believe in and I respect that.<br />
maureenb

I appreciate your support of the troops Lexus I really do. I was in when 9/11 happened. I was in when Afghan started. I was in when Iraq started. It is true we are fighting for freedom over there. The troops know it. My friends hit be IED's know it. However to say that politicians do not have their own agenda in this war is in my opinion a little absurd.<br />
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It just so happened that there was a country that was under a tyranical dictorship. Our troops were willing to go in there and fix that problem. Basicaly politicians I won't say if it was or wasn't Bush though he was involved with it manipulated the scene. They knew the troops would fight in that country due to pride as a nation. I want to see no one oppressed. I will fight to the death to protect anybody's rights wheter American or not but especialy for women and children. Many of my Brothers feel the same way. They also knew that the civilian population I am speaking on a whole here not the individuals within it were hungry for more blood because of what transpired on 9/11.<br />
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The scene was manipulated. Look at numbers every oil company recorded record profits and claimed it was due to a gas shortage. Do you think that happened in the past gas shortages? No it didn't because there truly was an oil shortage then. How many times has Bush changed the reason why we are over there. I personaly have lost count.<br />
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I think we need to finish there. not drop out but come up with a real plan to fix the situation. If we truley want a democracy over there the only way that is going to happen is if we quit telling them what to do and start just offering them support. Right now politicaly we are invaders.<br />
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I think we have done a very good thing in Iraq. I think we did the right thing by going in there. I think the political reasoning behind it though was a bunch of whitewash to cover their agenda.<br />
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As for Vietnam most of the atrocities commited their by our forces were not true atrocities. They were spun that way. Such as American armed forces members killing kids. The why was never released. The why being the vietkong use to strap mines and bombs on the back of kids and send them running at the GIs. After a few attacks like that the policy became if the child does not stop running torwards you shoot him.

i love being free to disagree<br />
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but countries have to work for democracy themselves<br />
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they can't have someone else doing the fighting for them<br />
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and call me cynical or jaded if you will, but i do not beleive at all that we invaded Iraq just to bring them democracy

Your entitled to your opinion Eyes...I do respect that.<br />
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I happen to believe they are figting for freedom...just as they are being told.

that statement simply meant that our soldier's think they are fighting for the right reason, as the german's did in the beginning<br />
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i don't think they are going to become like the Nazi's<br />
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i think that they are being misled and told they are fighting for freedom, when behind the scenes there are other intentions

Have I then misunderstood this comment:<br />
"and once again, nothign against the troops, but hitler's guard thought they were doing the right thing for nationalist pride too"<br />
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As you said eyes while some may have begun serving in Hitlers army for German Pride i seriouly doubt there were many who kept that notion. Most as you also said...served Hitler out of fear...not pride.<br />
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Many Germans try to say it never happened....this I personally believe is because they are ashamed and dont want to believe such a thing occured.<br />
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They are silent on the train because they are mournful about what occured there...<br />
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I do totally agree that debate and duscussion is a good thing. It is in fact a part of the very freedom our soldiers fight to defend...and fight to offer to others.

we love open discussion!<br />
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there was a comparison between our troops now and the ones who fought on OUR side in WWII, but i dont remember one comparing our troops to the Nazi troops<br />
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i support people's right to protest the war, but i don't think belittling the soldiers is acceptable, especially in Vietnam, when so many weren't there by choice<br />
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German's are extremely cautious and respectful when it comes to WWII, but a lot of citizens didn't really believe that what hitler did was right, they were terrorized into complacency, into silence lest they join the millions of dead<br />
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and our soldiers committed atrocities in Vietnam too, but its the same as the Abu Ghraib thing, there are bad apples - most are good at heart though, so even if i don't agree with what they do, i don't think they are evil <br />
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i once had a teacher whose father was in the SS. he fought in the beginning for nationalism, for German pride. After everyone was moved to war, when Hitler started his real tyranny, he fought because his family would be tortured and die if he did not. Our men choose to fight - hopefully we aren't shifting the focus of the war out from under them like Hitler did

I didnt read all the comments...i browsed so if I step on toes please forgive me.<br />
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I saw one thing that absolutly made me gasp...there seemed to be a suggested comparison between the reason our soldiers fight and the reason Hitler's army did. WOW<br />
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Go talk to some Germans and ask that question. I lived there for 3 years and even to this day when on a train traveling through Dacau'...the entire train goes silent as a means of respect and sorrow for what happened there.<br />
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My father faught in Nam...and no he does not like to talk about the experience. The few times he has chosen to share with me the two things that bother him are 1) the atrocities he saw, not commited by our soldiers, but rather by the ones we were fighting. 2) To have sacrificed and given so much for a country whose people not only didnt appreciate but even went so far as to belittle and degrade them.<br />
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My ex husband served in the military and deployed to Bosnia for a year. Obviously by describing as my ex...we are not togehter and dont get along. But, one thing remains true and always will. He has and deserves my respect for his choice to serve.

Haha you think full time mommy is bad try full time daddy. It really sucks no one appreciates the stay at home dad. I am tormented by inner need to work, I see TV shows about how it is so hard for the stay at home mom and they never bring up the stay at home dad. My friends think its awesome that I can play video games all day. Its not it just sucks the fun out of video games. Ahh I could go on can't wait till the wife gets restationed so I can get a job.

I teach high school English in the inner city<br />
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i don't have what it takes to be a full time mommy, or even a part itme mommy. I would go insane and just not be able to take care of the child, so I don't put myself in a situation where I might end up with one.

Yeah I can see that one. What do you teach by the wy. I also understand about the dumb enough to have kids line. Granted I helped raise my four nieces and I am basicaly their dad (emotionaly and mentaly for them,) but kids take a lot out of you. You have to completley change your lifestyle. Somethings are not possible or as easy to do once you have kids. I don't regret them but it was also the dumbest thing I ever did. Luckily being dumb got me a great reward.

if i'm ever dumb enoguh to have children (personal choice - not an attack on people with children), I will do the same thing. That is pretty much how it worked for me, and I'm basically responsible now. My brother threw tantrums and got whatever he wanted and he is a mess when it comes to being responsible and taking care of his monetary issues. <br />
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My parents bought me a car, but I earned it with good grades and staying out of trouble and doing a heck of a lot of housework and taking care of mom when she got sick. When mom got sick and money got tight, I worked AND still got my grades.<br />
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Now, I do have a little of the privlege mentality because of how my brother always got so much more than I did and did so much less than I did, but I mostly see actually getting that stuff as a bonus.<br />
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My students can't affrod a backpack or a pencil, but they have brandnew scuff free shoes and iPods, and then some of them cop attitude when I tell them i don't have a pencil to give them (give not loan, they never give stuff back). Some of my kids are better, but you know which ones throw fits and get whatever they want at home. BIG difference in the grades too.

Granteed I had a tramatic childhood. not everyone has to have one but I think everyone needs to learn about it. In your own way you are fighting a war. Its not one of bullets but it a war more valuable then any other war. You fight a war intellectually against all who try to take what is yours.<br />
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I think kids today have lost that sense of earning something. I actually heard a case where a teenage daughter was dating a questionable guy. The mom listened to a phone conversation and heard about a crime the boyfriend was going to commit. She did ther ight thing and alerted the authorities. He was caught. In trial he got off because the Mother violated her daughter's right of privacy.<br />
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I have two kids and I am sorry it is not their right to have privacy. Yeah if they go take a crap they can close the door (not to that point yet) but it is my responsibility to know what is going on in there life. I have the right to raise my children in a safe secure enviorment. Privacy for children is not a right it is a privelage granted by the parent.<br />
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Same thing as what MJ said about with the car. children need to start working for what they have. My children will have an allowance but they will earn it. They don't do aprt of their chores well then they don't get the full amount. If they do all their chores without prodding from me they will occasionaly ge a bonus. What they want will also come from their allowance. Makes no sense to give my kid some money then buy everything they want on top of it.

we only appreciate it if we fight for it, even if it means fighting our own government for it<br />
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people don't read about what happens when they give up their rights, they don't see what really happens in other countries<br />
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i have students who don't know what communism is, don't know who stalin was, and in a few cases they have to ask who hitler was<br />
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they don't know what it means to have to fight for anything, to fight against injustice<br />
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if it isbn't happening to them, it isn't happening<br />
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i am lucky, i learned (because of my tough childhood) that i am not OWED anything, i had to fight<br />
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and when i was done fighting for myself, i fought for others<br />
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it wasn't a war, but i appreciate what i have - freedom - <br />
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i don't think everyone needs to go through something horribly traumatic to get the pointthough, we just need to force people to open their eyes and see what they have, and what they are in danger of losing

Honestly and sadly the truth is we will probaly have to lose a city. I go to relating to the fall of Rome. Rome did not fall when the empire was strong and vibrant. Rome fell when the people got complacent with their own lifes and then one by one the cities fell until Rome herself fell.

It becomes more and more difficult to bring that era back, because so many Americans are drowning in their own apathy. It seems to me that this is almost inevitable. When one is born into a free country and has the bill of rights handed to them as the best damn birthday gift ever, they don't care or understand the gravity of that gift. It's almost like the old argument given to teenagers regarding whether or not Mom and Dad will buy them a car when they turn 16. Some parents say, "Junior, you need to get a job and start saving money to buy your own car, that way you will appreciate it more." And other parents say "Sure, baby, here's a Mercedes Benz!" And the kids says, "It's RED, I didn't want RED, I wanted BLACK! You suck!"<br />
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My point here is that many Americans feel no ownership in our country. So, how do we cultivate more of a feeling of belonging, and stimulate real involvement that utilizes and fosters the Constitution and Bill of Rights? How do we make sure that the ideas espoused in those documents are protected and not slowly chiseled away? What has to happen to make American's care again?

yeah sad we need statesmen again. to bad that is a day long gone. At least for now maybe our generation will bring it back one can only hope.

you mean converse congenially and find common ground and explore where the differences really are, and maybe how to overcome those differences? <br />
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politicians can't do that, they would be declared un-patriotic and a traitor to their particular partisanship<br />
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you don't get into politics to cooperate with other people

hehe I have no problem growing them I just keep killing them at the same time. Go figure lol. Ok seriously I get what you are saying and couldn't agree more.<br />
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On a side note I wish politicians could do what we are doing right now. Even though you and me have diffrent opions on certain subjects instead of arguing that we look for the common ground we can both stand on and be comfortable. I guess the politicos just enjoy their money to much.

that would require us to grow brain cells, and so many people are dead set against that

true. Personally I am a barter system person. Granted that won't work in this day and age of technology but I like the idea of one household trading their goods for those goods they can not produce. It also requires a commitment to family that is alcking in this day and age so ehh. Capitalism I think is the best system for the era but I think it is highly flawed and could be improved as well. Not by legislation but by consumer choice.

in some ways i hate capitalism, because it fuels greed<br />
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not that i think any other system is better<br />
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we are flawed creatures, thus any system of government or economics is going to be flawed

ZNo they don't because the public really doesn't care. As much as they hype it up that they do they don't. This country everyday becomes more lIke romeros masterpiece the original Dawn of the Dead. The public becomes more and more Zombified worried about as you said their credit card payments new car impressing neighbors etc.

i just meant that as long as the people who are in charge of the war are making a profit from it, and have a vested interest in the region's oil, we won't leave, and i don't think they have an incentive to push for alternative fuels

haha I don't even the war has to be involved. yeah military uses JP8 in their diesel engines which is Jet Petroleum grade 8. A diesel engine is very versatile in what it can handle. Another nice fact about regular Diesel is it is made from petroleum waste everything from the trash of vasoline to gasoline. Only reason why we shouldn't convert to straight diesel I think it should be more highly regarded though but you know us and speed freaks.

i was unaware of that<br />
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and i think we will remain unaware of that as long as there is a monetary interest for the people waging the war

Without new Nuke, hydro, solar, etc plants electric cars do nothing for us. All they do is reduce emissions. Cause if you think abbout everyone is going to be plugging their cars into recharge 9 out of 10 what type of plant produce the electricity that went into the car. Either a)coal or b) natural gas either one is a fossil fuel. In fact emissions wouldn't even be lowered all that dramatically due to the fact as you charge your car you are draining energy from the grid as a result more energy has to be put into the grid.<br />
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Biodiesel I think is the current best option. Already diesel engines outperform gas ones. Diesel runs at a higher compression ratio starting usualy at 14:1 compared to gasolines's 10:1. Diesel engines have been in high performance vehicles and done well not the best but well. They are easier to work on and they last longer. Not to mention diesel has a lower carbon ration. add in the fact diesel can be made from substances like corn. You can already clean out your fuel filters and run bio-diesel ina regular diesel engine. Don't ever put regular diesel in it again but it works with no adaptations required really makes you go WTFBBQ.

Without new Nuke, hydro, solar, etc plants electric cars do nothing for us. All they do is reduce emissions. Cause if you think abbout everyone is going to be plugging their cars into recharge 9 out of 10 what type of plant produce the electricity that went into the car. Either a)coal or b) natural gas either one is a fossil fuel. In fact emissions wouldn't even be lowered all that dramatically due to the fact as you charge your car you are draining energy from the grid as a result more energy has to be put into the grid.<br />
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Biodiesel I think is the current best option. Already diesel engines outperform gas ones. Diesel runs at a higher compression ratio starting usualy at 14:1 compared to gasolines's 10:1. Diesel engines have been in high performance vehicles and done well not the best but well. They are easier to work on and they last longer. Not to mention diesel has a lower carbon ration. add in the fact diesel can be made from substances like corn. You can already clean out your fuel filters and run bio-diesel ina regular diesel engine. Don't ever put regular diesel in it again but it works with no adaptations required really makes you go WTFBBQ.