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Not Quite Finished

We have made great strides in womens rights in most of Europe and the west.  Now for the rest of the world to catch up.  I salute the women of the middle east who are brave enough to speak out against oppression.  The people of the United States and Europe should stand in loud solidarity with them.  Illegalize Sharia law in all civilized nations. 

puck61 puck61 51-55, M 32 Responses Jun 20, 2009

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God bless you for being brave enough to stand up for females. You are awesome! The world NEEDS more men like you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

The bullies of the world are being vehemently defended by those who claim to be liberal. People must wake up, and now.

Interesting post. I think Sharia law is lame, but then again, I think any law that is ba<x>sed on religion is sort of lame. I remember a judge in eastern Oregon a few years back chastising a woman for not having diner on the table quickly, saying it was no wonder her husband hit her. He said the Bible stated it clearly that women should serve their husbands.

wow, you know WAY more about women's rights than I do, lol.... thanks for fighting in my place lol.... I guess I just reap the benefits of other's sweat, tears and in too many cases, blood....<br />
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Those are both very good points and the reasons I wouldn't get an abortion. If someone was to ask me, "Should I have an abortion?" I would say no because of the points you've made., but at the end of the day, we can't take on someone else's karma. We can say "The bridge is washed out. Stop", but it is still the drivers decision to keep on going or not. I can even put a Biblical spin on it. When God said to Ezekiel, " If you do not warn them and they continue in the wrong direction, their blood will be on your hands, if you warn them and they continue in the wrong direction their blood will not be on your hands" Paraphrased! -so we have a right to oppose but we don't have a right to stop., but that's just my take on it as of now.

Those are both very good points and the reasons I wouldn't get an abortion. If someone was to ask me, "Should I have an abortion?" I would say no because of the points you've made., but at the end of the day, we can't take on someone else's karma. We can say "The bridge is washed out. Stop", but it is still the drivers decision to keep on going or not. I can even put a Biblical spin on it. When God said to Ezekiel, " If you do not warn them and they continue in the wrong direction, their blood will be on your hands, if you warn them and they continue in the wrong direction their blood will not be on your hands" Paraphrased! -so we have a right to oppose but we don't have a right to stop.

Puck.. ya opened up a can of worms when ya brought up abortion. I've been all over the map on that particular issue until I heard one compelling argument. Starting at the "other" end of life, a person is defined as deceased when the is both the absence of a heart beat and brainwaves. On the other end, a fetus has a heartbeat at 16 days and brainwaves after 21 days.. .So if the absence of both indicates death, doesn't it stand that the presence of both defines life? <br />
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Point 2... I find it incredulous that the left is so pro abortion which might terminate someone like Steven Hawkins or Beethoven yet so against the death penalty and keeping someone alive like Charles Manson... It just don't compute! <br />
Bill in Va.

It think the corporate world needs to equalize the pay. It seems that the lower paying jobs do have equal pay for equal work fair to both sexes, but the white collar and up jobs need to work on this. I could be wrong about the blue collar jobs, but that has been my experience. Even the west has far to go. My stand on abortion is peculiar in that I'm against abortion but feel I don't have a right to make someone else's decision for them., especially since I'm a male.

no your stand is not peculiar. thats exactly right. Personal Choice.

Read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. It's hard to read, because the awful truth is hard to take.

well, that alone instantly makes you smarter than millions of evangelicals that think we need to institutionalize Christian worship.

I personally don't believe we have or should have a national religion! God forbid! : )

Ok, but will you admit that the US is a nation of (mostly) Christians, and not a Christian Nation? I've gone through the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, but I couldn't find any references to Christ or the 10 commandments. They do say "Creator", but that could just as easily be interpreted to be Allah. <br />
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THAT was the wisdom of the founding fathers. They realized the obvious truth that the religious right of today somehow can't admit, that this country is a mix of religions and cultures and ethnic backgrounds, and there is no national religion.

You pose a good argument, but I propose that Christianity and Catholicism have been vital to the evolution of society. Yes some terrible things have happened and still happen because of religion, but religion has also brought about a broader and faster spread of education. I'm sure you will note that I left out Islam and Judaism. I did so because they have not been so forceful in "spreading the word" although Islam spread nearly as fast. The spread of Christianity and Catholicism has also led to literacy in otherwise illiterate places. The first thing built after a Mission, has most often been a hospital, and a school.

But they can point to just as much justification for their interpretation of sc<x>ripture as you can, and therein lies the problem. Scientologists and Mormons think THEY are correct and you are wrong, too, by the way. From an atheist's perspective, you're all crazy. <br />
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As for what would happen without religion, I can point to a mostly secular Europe that isn't falling apart. Some of the most healthy and peaceful and safe countries in the world are secular. Meanwhile, the uber-religious U.S. is more violent and dangerous and morally depraved than any country. We have a 1/3 of China's population, but our prison population is 3 times theirs.

For as much trouble as religions have caused, I personally believe there would be complete and utter chaos at the very least, were it not introduced into society.<br />
In my opinion, Catholicism is to Christianity as a fish is to a cucumber.

They may be treated 'pretty good", but they are still inferior to men. It's 2011, and they still don't get equal pay for equal work in comparison with men. Why do you suppose that is? <br />
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As for the female priest comment, that was in reference to Catholicism. There are no female priests. <br />
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My point is that religion was invented by men, so it should come as no surprise that women "get the shaft", so to speak. We have religion to thank for much of the patriarchal masochism in the world. And if you are going to resort to the "religion does so much good" argument, I would defer to Jon Stewart to describe my feelings on the subject: <br />
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"Religion. It comforts people in a world town apart by religion." <br />
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or another of my favorites: <br />
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""With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion"

From what I've seen of Christianity, women are treated pretty good. You have female evangelists like Joyce Meyer for example. (Who I seriously take issue with.) All the Baptists I know treat their wives with a kind of reverence.

Where that hell that lil "factoid" on Quakers came from is from the Greatest Novel Ever Written... IMHO... "Chesapeake" by James Mitchner.. so.. take it with a grain of salt. Bill in Va.

Ok, I should dial back my statement a bit. What I should have said was, "all religions likely to be practiced by people posting here". That means you, Christians, Catholics, and Jews. <br />
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They're of little difference to me. Islam simply hasn't gone through the same modernization that some of the others have.

The quakers never differentiated on gender that I can recall... Bill in va.

All religions treat women as inferior to men. They are derivative. Eve was the one that was ultimately responsible for original sin. Women coming from the rib. Seen any female priests around lately?

Good on Puck.. Bill in va. I'm bitting my tongue on politcs here... Oh.. what religion was the condemed lady in Iran.. the one that was to be stoned to death ba<x>sed upon an accusation of infidelity? Still.. Bill in Va.

Yeah. : )

smiles........... good to know that... Libertarian?

Yeah I may be conservative, but I'm not a republican! lol.

Puck.....sometimes you surprise me with an enlightened stance that transcends the more conservative posts that I have read in the past.<br />
I celebrate your growth and applaud you for your comments here and others that I have seen recently.<br />
Now if we can only get you to vote Democrat...................smiles

Wow, it feels good not to have to defend what should be obvious, equaliy!

Preach Sister! My mother was one of the founding members of NOW and a hard core activist for women's rights my entire life. I can't imagine Sharia law being practiced in the USA or Europe and when I read the Archbishop of Canterbury (of all people for God's sake) say that it was inevitable some aspects of Sharia law be practiced in the UK I almost screamed. I'm a son, brother, husband, and a father and I can tell you that if there is ever a movement to attempt to get any aspect of Sharia law put into the American justice system I'll be right next to you on the protest line! If it does pass into law in this country I would move my family out ASAP and give up my citizenship.

I'm with you! here's the reference for that. Itt's an Islamic site.

I spend 3 moths in United Arab Emirates, i got to speak to women, Muslim ones there. Women are not treated as equal there at all. If they divorce the man gets custody and they loose their kids. They have now started to lock up men who beat their wife's there. In U.A.E. Interesting experience spending time there.

According to the Sharia, despite declarations of the equality of the sexes before God, women are considered inferior to men, and have fewer rights and responsibilities. A woman counts as half a man in giving evidence in a court of law, or in matters of inheritance. Her position is less advantageous than a man’s with regard to marriage and divorce. A husband has the moral and religious right and duty to beat his wives for disobedience or for perceived misconduct. A woman does not have the right to choose her husband, or her place of residence, to travel freely or have freedom in her choice of clothing. Women have little or no autonomy and are deemed to need the protection of their fathers, husbands or other male relatives throughout their lives. Any conduct that undermines the idea of male supremacy will fall foul of the Sharia.<br />
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The legal age of marriage varies from country to country, ranging from 9 in Iran to 13, 15 or 17 (in Tunisia). This follows from the marriage of Mohammed to Aisha, a 9-year-old girl, when the Prophet was 53. It should be noted, however, that the Prophet was allowed many actions by Allah that were denied to the other faithful, and not all Muslim scholars would accept the Aisha marriage as a precedent.<br />
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The various Sunni schools of law and that of the Shi'ites differ on a number of points important to women. In all schools, however, marriage is a contract according to which the husband should perform sexually and provide materially for the wife. The wife must have sex whenever the husband wishes. A man can easily divorce a woman by pronouncing that he is divorcing her three times. Polygamy with up to four wives is permitted, and in the Shi'ite sect, temporary marriage is allowed whereby a man can have access to an unlimited number of women. The practice is known as Mot'a or Sigheh. Men are also permitted concubines and female slaves. <br />
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In many Islamic countries a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry a non-Muslim man whereas Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women. With the ob<x>ject of protecting morality and preventing sexual anarchy, women are expected to cover their whole bodies bar their faces and their hands up to their wrists. The Sharia is totally opposed to freedom of dress – for women. This is obviously a huge barrier to the personal development of women, not allowing them to develop sexually and as people. It is inhumane to imprison women behind veils when it is the men who according to Islamic law cannot be trusted to control themselves. On the pretext of protecting their honor women are kept locked up, isolated and unable to enjoy a full life or to develop their potential. <br />
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In order to protect their morality women can have no contact with men to whom they are not related without the presence of a male relative. The segregation of sexes in this way makes it very difficult for women to leave their houses and participate in society in any way at all. Under the Taliban many war widows were forced into starvation. Their crime? Had they prayed harder their husbands would have survived!<br />
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Many apologists for Islam, women among them, argue that women are happy in their roles in Islamic society, happy to be afforded the protection of their menfolk and to be kept away from the gaze of other men. But this of course is a false argument. If some women want to stay at home under the protection of their men they can do so. But do the apologists for Islam have the right to tell all other women, including non-Muslims, how they should behave? Women deserve to be treated as autonomous human beings and for this reason alone misogynistic Political Islam and its imposition of the Sharia should be opposed.<br />
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Yes to woman's rights! I've heard Moslems claim that women can attain full rights within a Sharia judicial system. Just a matter of working the system.. Whatever it takes!