I don't believe, but I am not too militant about it. I don't believe because it is not logical. There are too many views of god or whatever else out there. I does not make sense that everyone who believes in something is right. Who is to say that the Greeks were not right about Zeus and them? Why does the christian god have to be THE ONE? The whole bible thing is whacked too. A book that says slaves should be slaves and women should be property and kings can have harems is not quite the ethical background I want my children to have. The book is outdated and if people really want the whole world to believe ina an archaic script they really need to wake up. Also, people who don't believe in a god are not automatically spawn of the devil (if I don't believe in one...guess what? I don't believe in the other either!) Most of the uber christers I have met are the biggest hypocrites in the world. I figure it is all about having faith in yourself and in the human race. Live life the way you feel is right. Be a cedent human being and you will be treated decently. You don't have to go give some ********* (had to throw that in there) 10% of your money to show you are a good person. I help those I see that need help, I teach my kids about equality, fredom to as well as the freedom of others, and love them unconditionally. I don't understand how a person can live a god life and still be destined for "hell" because they never said howdy to god, allah, or whoever. If there is a god and he/she/it send people to eternal damnation , not for being bad but only for not bowing to him/her/it, who really wants a part of that?
jaxspouse jaxspouse
31-35, F
5 Responses Jul 1, 2007

My favorite part of any Christian argument is bringing up the fact that they say you go to hell if you don't believe in their god. If this applies to ever logic that means everyone is going to hell because there are many religions in the world, and no one can be a part of all the religions. THEY can respect it, but they can't be a part of it, which means everyone goes to hell. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I rather dislike the bible because it's views, I'm my opinion, no longer work. It has been outdated

The Hellfire doctrine is a perverse Antichrist mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love he would never prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked:

and here's Max once again claiming, without a shred of evidence, that gods exist (either that, or he thinks that it's possible to defame a fiction).
Just as bad, Max also feels that he has the authority to speak for the gods and to second-guess them.
All made even more laughable by Max's failure to comprehend that 'infinity' is a concept, not a measure of time.

Max, in that ramble you said "(A) If atheism is true, the universe came into being ex nihilo sine causa"
Please show how this is so.
Also please show how "If atheism is true" is a meaningful statement.
Because the above claim stands near the head of your list, if it fails, all after it fails.
So, before anyone wastes any time on what follows your claim, let's make sure that it's coherent, shall we?

Max: "God has simply always existed and is, therefore, uncaused"
Then it is equally valid to claim that the universe has simply always existed and is, therefore, uncaused.
In fact, this has the advantage of simplifying matters by removing the magical middleman

Max: "You presume God came into existence. This however leaves us with an infinite regress of causes which has no basis in reality ... Hence, the obvious: that God has simply always existed and is, therefore, uncaused"
In what way is this 'obvious'? ... it's an equally valid conclusion that gods don't exist, because, as you point out, they have no basis in reality.

Theism is not logical? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Here’s why the fundamentally nihilistic materialist, naturalistic, gnostic/agnostic atheistic view of the world is wholly illogical, irrational and unenlightened:

(1) Everything that exists has an objective explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of its own nature or in an external cause.

(A) If atheism is true, the universe came into being ex nihilo sine causa.
(A1) Therefore, the universe has no objective explanation of its existence.

(B) If the universe did not come to exist ex nihilo sine causa then atheism is false.
(B1) Therefore, the universe has an objective explanation of its existence.

(2) The universe exists.
(3) The space-time universe does not exist out of the necessity of it’s own nature for it did not exist until 13.70 billion years ago.
(4) Therefore, the space-time universe exists because of an external cause.

(5) The external cause of the universe must necessarily be a transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent good personal being.
(6) A transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent good personal being is the definition of God.
(7) Therefore, the objective explanation of the universe's existence is God.

(8) Therefore atheism is false.

If you believe in God, then your point A doesn't work out. Ex nihilo sine causa. Nothing comes from nothing. Therefore, god could not have suddenly come to be and the earth with him/her/it. Therefore, with your own logic, religion is fake

Where do I claim God came into being ex nihilo sine causa?

You said nothing comes from nothing. If nothing comes from nothing, then how does God exist? You can't say that ex nihilo sine causa applies to atheism, but not to God

You presume God came into existence. This however leaves us with an infinite regress of causes which has no basis in reality (See Hence, the obvious: that God has simply always existed and is, therefore, uncaused.

1 More Response

Good post Jax, especially your last line. I've always thought that if there is a God, he's not exactly a nice person is he? Here's this all powerful being, and out of boredom he one day decides to create a universe, and fill it with living beings...and for what? For nothing more than his own amusement, I can only asume. Then he sits back on his comfy golden throne, for millions of years and watches gleefully as they kill each other off, and die from disease and disasters. And don't get me started on him sending his own flesh and blood to be nailed to a frikkin cross! Then he still expects all of them to devote their only lives to him, and abstain from enjoying all the things HE has created for them. Then, if they don't do as he says, he casts them in to hell to burn for all eternity.<br />
Here on earth that's called entrapment, and officers of the law go to jail for that kind of thing, but when god does it, no one lifts an eyebrow...well, no one religious anyway.<br />
If god was a human being, no one would like him...especially religious folk. He would be either locked up for life, or given the death sentence. If god does exist, I certainly wouldn't want to devote my life to someone like that.

Now that's very well said!!! I've always wandered, what would a über-christian say to a buddhist for example.... "You're wrong, you're gonna die in hell!"??? Buddhism is an older religion as far as I understand, It's just something I don''t understand... When noone knows 100% what is the truth about deity or do it/they even exist, noone can tell to others they're wrong. Or that's how it should be...<br />
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Believing is believing, it's where knowledge has ended. I don't really care what other people believe in, but I care for freedom of religion and always het quite pissed when someone is gonna try to brainwash me!