Not believing in the bible or God is not a crime.
SayGeronimo SayGeronimo
18-21, F
59 Responses Aug 23, 2014

You are so right. In the US anyway. I think some states may still have blasphemy on the books, but the SCOTUS invalidated all such laws.

Yet, now and some states are wanting them back, and you can be sure, if the makeup of the SCOTUS gains just one more hard conservative, it will be a crime again.

I know someone who's motto is, "What's your motivation?" Basically you can do the right thing for the wrong reason or whatever but it's your motives that make a difference. I know this website is the car on the highway version of connectedness where you can treat people in…different ways than you would to their face, but seriously, everyone, please take a step back. If you're a Christian who's giving someone a hard time for not believing, ask yourself why. Your job is to share the truth, not cram it down someone's throat. Non-believers, why the hate? Someone sharing their faith is presumably doing it because they care about you. If you're not interested that's up to you. Hopefully you will see the value in it, but no one can force you. Peace out.

After I saw Frostflower make fun of my learning disability then I wanted to bully her so bad because she was hurting my feelings. Posting my url up to poke fun at me. Jeditrunk and xstarlight thought it was fun to poke at me so they copied and pasted what put on there to mock me. Please grow up. God bless you. Thank you. Seeya. I am done with this drama.

You wanted to bully people? Seriously? What the hell. Grow a pair, dammit. None of those people made fun of your disability. Stop lying.

If people stop talking about people then I will leave them alone

Thank you for taking those posts about me in I Am An Atheist room.

Please tell me where these "posts" are... The only post I made was about a lady who called the cops on me for no reason, when I had transgressed no legal boundaries. I never mentioned a username or anything. Otherwise, I did make comments about you, because you are a serious threat to the EP community. You constantly harass people, and expect them to respect you. I'm sorry, but I've told this to you a million times...leave me the heck alone. I'm actually making a draft for the email I'm sending to EP. Hopefully they will ban your IP, and any IPs you have used to access EP.

Please go check url address on EPAllie's wall.

Why are you trolling this girl?

Go look at EPAllie's wall.

I love the Omnipotence Paradox.
If God created a rock that even he couldn't lift, will he be able to lift it? Everybody says he's all-powerful, right?

Many people who argue against this paradox say that omnipotence doesn't necessarily mean that God can do everything...but the definition of omnipotence is unlimited power and power is the ability to do basically God is supposed to be able to do anything. (Just basing this off of the dictionary is comes in really handy.) Whatever you answer, it just shows that God is not all-powerful.

Apologists have altered their claim of an all powerful god to now say that god can do anything that is *logically* possible. This way they avoid the "rock he can't lift" paradox.

Dear people who are telling me that Atheism is a sin and that if I believe in God my sins will be washed away,

Stop it. Maybe it's a "sin" to you, but keep in mind, I don't follow the same doctrine that you do! In my religion, Atheism is not a sin, it is an actual part of the religion (yay)! That's the equivalent of a Satanist saying that all Christians are committing sin by not following Satan, and that if a Christian converts to Satanism, then these sins will be forgotten. Sounds ridiculous, right? Well, that's exactly what you guys are saying. Let me tell you something, believing in a deity (in this case, God) does not give you a free pass. Simply believing in God does not make you a better person then someone who does not, simply believing in God does not excuse you from the ills you do to others. Simply not believing in God doesn't mean that you are automatically a terrible person. Simply not believing in God does not mean that you will never be able to clear away the bad things you have done. I've said this many times, and I will say it again. For these "sins" to be washed away, you have to be a good person. You have to be compassionate, benevolent, just kind to people. You have to volunteer or donate to charity. You have to LOVE your fellow human beings regardless of what they believe. The title that your religion gives you does NOT define you. A Christian can do just as much evil as an Atheist. Believing or not believing does NOT give you an excuse to be a bad person. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE GOOD WILL IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU CALL YOURSELF. A GOOD PERSON IS A GOOD PERSON.

You have a strong belief. Please let me explain respectfully and I hope that you will take it that way: Regardless of our belief or even knowledge of the law, if we break it we are still accountable for the crime. Telling the judge that you don't believe that law or you didn't know won't help. It's the same with God. Also, it's not belief in God that makes a difference, it's repenting. I believe in Harrison Ford, that he exists, but that doesn't mean the same as being a follower of him (though I do enjoy his work...). Last, no one is good. Let me explain. Sure, everyone is good at times in their life, even a serial killer. But no one is good all the time. The bad we all do cannot be cancelled out by doing good any more than putting a car in reverse can take the miles off. We all need someone to wash off the junk we accumulate, and that's Jesus. I'm sorry if a Christian hurt you or was judgmental-it happens too often. That goes against what the Christian professes to be. The two requirements are to love God and love others. We share the danger ahead for not repenting for the same reason that you would tell someone that any danger is coming that they haven't realized it yet. If you're not interested, that's your freedom to choose either way. I wish you well and hope I helped.

That's what you think, but that's not what others think. Everyone who is not a Christian or someone who follows God does not think that way, and you need to keep that in mind. Jesus will not wash away my sins, even though he'll wash away yours. I never said people are good all the time, I said that if they try to be good, that's all that matters. But, if you committed a crime and killed someone I'm not going to respect you anymore or forgive you for that crime simply because you believe in God. That does not take the crime away, especially if you continue to do bad things afterwards. Christians aren't exempt from facing up to what they did, they have just as much responsibility as another person to a crime. Believing in Jesus does not take that crime may take it away for other believers but for the rest of us, your crimes are still there, until you prove yourself by actually DOING SOMETHING GOOD FOR OTHERS, instead of pretending that believing in something immediately exempts you from dealing with what you've done. If you don't make up for bad with good then no matter how many times you ask for forgiveness from your God, it won't matter because you have done it already. You must now continue your life doing better things so that you can make up for the bad things you did. Not believing in God isn't a crime plain and simple, and not believing in God is not comparable to not following the law...Not. At. All.

Yeah, we all do bad. A Christian isn't perfect, they just realize their need for redemption and accept it. Because of our crimes we will face judgement (not believing in God is not the crime btw). The difference is that Jesus stepped in and took our punishment, paying our fine if we let him. Anyway, that's all I've got. You're free to believe whatever you want, there is no pressure intended on my part.

Okay, well, yes, you are free to believe that.

Also, why do you think that Christianity is and God is the only person to look onto when you have done wrong? It's not. Stop pretending you have a supreme religion. Maybe instead of praying and asking for forgiveness from a being that isn't of flesh and bone, maybe you should actually serve and help you fellow human beings who are alive right now. The people you can see, hear, love. Your religion shouldn't be your life, it should be your guidelines. As soon as you make religion your life, you won't be able to see beyond it and you will become narrow-minded. Sometimes you can't have others do the work that you must do. Instead of having God wash of your sins, wash them off yourself too, by doing something good for the community.

Old conversation, but I would like to add a few footnotes, to point out a couple of flaws in your argument.

1. It's funny, don't you think, that a god would base his opinion of you primarily on you getting lucky and being born into the right religion? Honestly if every religion tells me I'm going to hell if I don't believe in it, do I just join 'em all? And before you go on to say "But the Bible is God's one true word", every religion says that about their own holy book (Could you imagine if it weren't that way? "Is your holy book God's true word?" "No."). Beyond that the Bible was written by men! Sure, the Old Testament wasn't(According to the Old Testament, of course), but then why not Judaism?

2. Secondly, are you saying we don't actually have to believe to him to get into heaven? That we just have to make up for all the bad things we do by repeating prayers that mean nothing to us?

Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate the fact that you actually live by your religion and aren't critical of others beliefs. About 50% of the world current major problems would not exist if everyone lived as such.

It's OK. Christianity is a faith made up of converts of all the other religions. It was literally founded like this and took time before there were multi-generational Christians. Even today throughout the world there are people leaving behind their old lives to accept Jesus.
What I mean is that it's not about belief alone: I believe in George W. Bush…that he exists, but I am definitely not a follower of him. Most religions try to help the person become a better human being in some way. The difference with Christianity is that we realize that we just can't be good enough to make it on our own
The basic principle is that 1) we are all sinners-every major religion recognizes this-I'm sure even atheists would agree that we all do bad things from time to time. 2) There are consequences for sin-a debt that we owe 3) Jesus paid for debt and will wash us clean (if we accept it-I can offer you a million dollars but if you don't accept it, then you don't have it).
Also, the Bible is not an ordinary book by any means. It's a history book, a law book (many of the laws were actually Jewish civil code, religion was part of every aspect of their society), & a prophetic book. I just looked it up online-it looks like over 300 prophesies came true-some of which were written as much as 700 years (I'm going by memory on that one) before they happened. The Babylon captivity was foretold, King David having horrific family problems (rape of his daughter by one of his sons, who was murdered by another son, & a coup by his own son), the scattering and return of the Jewish people to their homeland, and much more.
More importantly, there's a bunch of prophesies about Jesus…things that a person couldn't have any control over like the circumstances of his birth. It's funny, because the book of Isaiah reads like one of the gospels describing some of the ways Jesus would suffer in detail, but written years before Jesus died on the cross (the last book of the old testament was 400 years before this so it was some time before that).
The really funny thing is that the Old Testament said the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem but Mary & Joseph were living in Nazareth when she was pregnant so that wasn't going to come true. BUT the Roman emperor made it the law to return to your family's home town-which so happened to be Bethlehem, so it ended up fitting into the prophesy after all.
I totally get your concerns and questions. I've had them myself. The more time I spend with it the more awesome I realize it is, though. Hey, if so many people around the world for 2000 years have changed their lives and gone on to serve others and pour out love on the world (yeah, I know there's been a lot of war and garbage done in Jesus' name but that actually goes against what the people who did that claimed to believe in) then maybe there's something to it.
For me, one of the most amazing things is the story of the disciples. Not only did they knowingly die for Jesus (all but 1 of the disciples that saw him resurrected were killed as martyrs), but they also lived for him. None of his disciples went back to their lives, settled down, had kids, etc., but went preaching about what they saw-if they had stolen the body then it's extremely unlikely (basically impossible) that they would have all given their lives to protect a lie.
Anyway, that's for letting me share. It's pretty cool to be able to talk about this stuff!

Your pretty smart for someone so young. All the attributes you think people should have such as compassion, kindness, love etc are given in the Bible as principles we should live by and most of the laws on the law books today were founded on principles in the Bible such as dont kill, steal, etc. But without a God and without the Bible whose to say that these are right and that the person who lives a selfish self centered life is wrong? Maybe he is the one who is right. Without a measuring stick to tell you what is a foot and what is an inch there is no way of knowing without some kind of standard. And without a standard for humanity then hey anything goes because there is no basis for right or wrong. When a couple marries and one cheats on the other why does the one feel wronged? Because God said he wrote his commandments on our hearts. Somehow we all know right from wrong even when we dont do it. If I were to die and find out I was wrong that God didnt exist I have lost nothing. But when you die and if you were to find out you were wrong have lost everything. An interesting story to look at on youtube would be CNN"S video of Akiane Kramarik a girl raised by atheist parents and ..I'll say no more.

Buddhism came first. Buddha said all that stuff before God did, so did Hinduism. So, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

"...find out I was wrong that God didnt exist I have lost nothing. But when you die and if you were to find out you were wrong have lost everything."
Your statement is an expression of Pascal's wager. You might want to look at the criticisms of this and read how it is debunked. It is a logical argument based on some weak assumptions.

CNN is a joke. So is MSNBC. And really? The morals argument? Honestly, who do you think decides what's right and wrong right now? The Bible? Let's look at a short timeline and the topic of sexuality. First of all, in Greco-Early Roman times it was okay to be homosexual. We then enter into the well known Constantine era, who passes the first homosexuality laws, over the next couple of decades other empires follow. Throughout the Middle Ages homosexuality is entirely shunned. I would argue that when there is a rise in the importance of the fine arts in a society, however, there is also a rise in homosexuality. We can look at Renaissance Da Vinci and bisexual Shakespeare, and of course transcendentalist era Oscar Wilde, along with the whole feminism movement, returning after that into conservatism for a bit, until the '60s, which is just a messy era to say anything definitive about as there was surely a movement for its opposite, but arguably a slight rise here, all the while Christianity is among the top three predominant religions. Now come to modern day. Did you know homosexuality was considered a mental disease until the 1990s? However we see a modern day movement, almost extreme in comparison to past movements about gay rights and what not. Now to conclude my drawn out point, as I am not homosexual or bisexual or whatever, we see a shift away from Christianity's 'Sharia Law'. It is not your Holy Book that decides social norms, it never has been, we decide social norms. Sure, some rather mentally ill people used it to control the masses, yes, I'm looking at you Constantine Rome and Theocratic England, but it has always been a tool. A means to an end, rather than an end in itself, as you would have it.
My Sharia Law connection brings up another point. You know those people who you and CNN refer to as 'terrorists'? The ones imposing Sharia Law? They also believe following their religious book is the only way to be moral. Please. I beg of you. Don't follow the terrorists' example.

Satanists don't worship Satan...

*Some Satanists don't worship Satan. At least as I understand it. It's rather complicated with theistic and atheistic off shoots, I'll have to research a bit more on that one.

No, satanist don't worship Satan. Luciferians and Devil Worshippers do. They're not satanists.

I've found multiple articles that contradict that. Including the definition: the worship of Satan, typically involving a travesty of Christian symbols and practices, such as placing a cross upside down. I don't actually agree with it, however, as there is obviously an atheistic off shoot as well.

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What do you believe and why?

A reflection in the water remains after the stone is thrown; the trick is to walk away from the pond.

Basically, it's one thing to not "believe", and another to acknowledge "non-existence".

Once you liberate yourself from "belief" and embrace "nothing" when it comes to matters of faith, a whole new world of clarity will open to you.

Good luck. :)

I've answered here before, but let me answer again, just to make things clear: Religion is man-made, while the intention of religion SHOULD have been about love, respect and compassion. Instead, religion preaches more torture, violence, discrimination and that we 'must' believe in God or we go to hell.. It's all bullshit. The only thing that matters is that we are good to all that lives: humans, animals and nature, and that we need to respect them, do no harm, and show compassion, and always help where help is needed. Religion should not be forced to other people. We have a free will. Believe or don't believe, it doesn't matter. Just do good. That's all I can say about it.

Yes, this is true. I am a Buddhist (which makes me an Atheist automatically, I also don't really believe in the supernatural aspects of my religion...just Buddha's teachings to be good and such), and right now these terrible Buddhist extremists are waging war against the common Muslim people, forcing them to stay in camps where there isn't enough food or medical supplies. That makes me sick, and it's really unfortunate that in modern times the way we practice religions has become twisted and barely represents what the original idea was about. Most religions have good intentions behind them, but those good intentions have slowly been seeping away as time passes. It's wonderful to have a religion, it's wonderful to not have a religion. If you don't have a particular religion just be a decent person. If you do have a religion try to look to the core of the religion and see what it's about. See what it's really saying. Yes, sometimes you have to drop certain aspects of a religion if it harms a certain third party. That's why there are Christians out there who aren't waging a war against gays because the most important thing the Bible taught them was to love one another, to respect one another. That's why there are Muslims out there who don't threaten people who are not of Islamic faith who don't do sacrificial rituals that involve killing other beings. because the main thing the Koran taught them was to strengthen peace and not to encourage war. The most important thing that encompasses all people of all walks of life is kindness, and as soon as you've mastered that, it doesn't matter what faith you claim to have or not to have. You'll just be a great person, and that says way more than a simple name.

I see you're only between 13-15 of age, and I am stunned of your wisdom. Very wise words and I loved to read your reply :) I also read a LOT about buddhism myself. :)

Killing is not a crime these days either.
People kill because they think it is their right according to their faith

The bible is a book, it exists. Be clear on what you declare, it helps. You believe in the bible and perhaps you believe that some of the stories are true. For example jesus probably did exist and was crucified. So you may believe in some of what is written in the bible, perhaps what you are saying is that you do not believe in everything in the bible. Nor should you your truth is within you and you are not a fundamentalist. You question all that is around you and dayyou are on a spiritual journey stay open to that follow your own route and you can only do that when you start saying what it is that you do believe in not what you do not. God for me is what I believe in therefore I cannot say I do not believe in God. Enjoy your

Yes, I do think there is enough historical evidence to prove the existence of Jesus, but otherwise I do not believe most of the Bible. I do think that there could have been historical events that were woven into a much larger story. For example, there may have been a detrimental flood at some point in the past, and over the next couple of decades and centuries that flood could have grown into something greater, into a story about Noah's Ark. I do not believe that an ark existed, it is not possible, but the people of the past could have added that, maybe after orally passing down the story through the generations.
But, the bible is only one book and basing a whole religion off of a single book and only using that one book as definite "proof" that these events occurred and that God exists is pretty laughable. A lot of Christians do this, but many other Christians actually go a step further and try to find other evidence to prove it...and I think that's definitely good for them. Too many Christians these days use the bible and only the bible as proof when they're trying to argue something to an Atheist or Agnostic...which is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. But, as soon as somebody brings in other (reliable) sources and evidence, that's when I become interested.
To each their own, I guess.

You're right. That's one of the problems with the church. In the past, people in the church reasoned with their minds, but now they reason with emotions. If the other person doesn't believe in a source, then how can you use it as evidence? You can find evidence to support the Bible though. One of the biggest evidence for the Bible is its accuracy. No one has proven it false in hundreds of years of effort. Cities believed to be myth have since been discovered by archeologists. Events mentioned also line up with secular historical records. Last, they found copies of the Bible in the Dead Sea caves that were thousands of years old and virtually identical to what we have today. Hopefully that helps.

Not being able to prove that it didn't happen doesn't prove that it did. That's like saying Leprechauns exist. We've read about them in books, and we hear it everywhere. You don't have proof that they don't exist so they MUST exist! Yes, some things in the bible may be related to things that happened in real life, but there are a lot of contradictions and things that can't be proven in the bible. More than the ones that have been proven to be slightly true.

"One of the biggest evidence [sic] for the Bible is its accuracy. No one has proven it false in hundreds of years of effort."
This is absolutely false. While there are places mentioned that we know exist and there are some names in the Bible that are mentioned in other sources you are engaging in confirmation bias. You don't refer to the many events in the Bible that cannot be verified by other sources and events mentioned that have been refuted by archaeology and other methods.

Find what it is that you believe in do not worry about the points of views of others, find your own spirituality. Forget proof the only truth is yours that which shapes your life, how you feel and what you experience. You are on your own spiritual journey trust, me it is the most amazing journey ever, do not walk nervously, throw caution to the wind and live it. Live fast through what you belief open yourself up to ideas but be quick to reject those that do not sit well with you. If the bible is not the book for you then reject it find out what sits with you, rid your life of disbeleif.

Disbelief is better than believing everything you hear and hiding under a veil of ignorance while the world rages on around you.

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A Crime But A Sin.

and where do you ge tthis information from?

I do not follow a religion that calls being an Atheist a "sin", so no, it's not a sin to me, although it may be for you.

And the crime and sin are equal, because neither affect us.

Nor something that is required to be.

Hi piecestothepuzzles
Not believing in the bible or God is a good start. The next step is understanding what religion actually is. Religion has been a permanent part of human history and is plainly important to people. In the religious mindset you not believing in the bible - or other holy book - is a crime. So you have to take religion seriously.
Imho Religion is a form of poetry. The mistake occurs when people in groups believe it to be literally true. So two ideas become mixed up. First there is human storytelling and poetry and secondly there is the wish to believe in an explanation of reality. This combination makes a heady mix and groupthink is hard to challenge.
Just saying so you know what you are letting yourself in for.
Best wishes and respect.

I completely agree with you, but I think in the first world (in the United States at least) people need to stop clawing at others who do not share there religious beliefs. All religious and non-religious people need to be aware that their belief isn't the only one and that not everybody considers their belief to be the supreme way of thinking. Many people are ignorant about this, and right now there are lots of Christians in the United States who believe that if somebody does not believe what they believe, they immediately should be treated as a sub-human. Certain people in all belief systems don't understand what respect is. They need to know that they are not the only ones on this planet and what they say doesn't always go. They need to respect others decisions to do their own thing, without incessantly trying to convert them.

HI piecestothepuzzles
wow you impress!
I like how you write and by extension think.
I see an interesting life ahead for you.
Best wishes

You are a child..give it time

Children are capable of making decisions. My parents have made this decision on their own, my brother has made this decision as an adult, and I have researched this topic thoroughly in order to make my own decision. The point of this thread was not to argue about what religion I should be, it's to say that I should not be persecuted for my beliefs. I shouldn't have to see the ads for the movie God's Not Dead which paints Atheists in such an unrealistic light. Everybody should be able to practice their religion as long as it doesn't harm anybody else. If you think that "time" will make me realize God, I think you should revoke that statement, because you are doing exactly what I am sick and tired of...assuming that you're religion is the only way, and thinking that all those who do not follow your religion are either "lost" or just simply sub-human. That kind of mentality is sickening. If that wasn't what you were trying to get across, then I apologize. I just get really heated up about things.

I agree with you. I am not an atheist myself. But I like your point.

please visit if you are good listener you will believe in God.

...I regret clicking on that link...

Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One.
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

How we can't believe the one who create the us

This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Congratulations?

just because those words were written down makes them true?

This is not about what you think is right or wrong, or what you think is the better path to choose. This is plainly about that fact that one should not be persecuted simply for one's (non-harmful) beliefs. That's all there is to it, nothing more and nothing less.

You're right. People generally are not tolerant of opposing views, regardless of religion or lack of religion or how tolerant they claim to be.

We are free to believe what we want. However, we all do commit crimes from time to time (lying, stealing, cheating, hating, etc).

Scenario: 2 people die. One tries to make up for their crimes with God and one doesn't. If there was no god then it didn't matter what they believed, they are both dead. But if there IS a God who both have wronged, then the one that hasn't made amends is up a creek.

You're *totally* free to believe what you want! I would be 100% sure though that I was right about there being no god before I ignored a chance to have my record cleaned. It was totally awesome for me (and believe me I've had my share).

So you're taking the chance that there's just one god? What if the Hindus are right, and there are hundreds? You'd be foolish then to only pray to one. I just believe in one less deity than you do.

Believe what you want just don't insult other religions like some atheist on ep. I am not here to argue.

But not believing in Aphrodite means missing out on so much....

Hey, I dont believe in that stuff. I think its just someone who wrote a book and it got popular. And as far as God, no one has ever seen him ,but they say he's real, but no one has ever saw Santa Clause or the Easter bunny but they say he is not real

People did see Jesus killed and then return from the dead. Not for a minute or a day, but for like a month. Most of his disciples went to their death as martyrs telling everyone they could what happened. Under the threat of torture and death (knowing that some of their friends had already been killed), none recanted. They didn't say what they believed to be true, only what they saw. The records of their stories can be found in historical, non-religious accounts.

Can you post a link to, or a list of those extra-biblical documents you mentioned?

That sounds so incredibly brave, noble, and selfless.

Under the threat of torture and death none recanted. WOW!!

You were there at their deaths, and can verify this.

No matter how many times you chide a Christian for claiming facts that are not verifiable, they just keep doing it.

"One of the biggest evidence for the Bible is its accuracy. No one has proven it false in hundreds of years of effort. "

The really neat thing about the statement above is ... you never have to actually check to see if that status is changed!! Why would you need to? It's INFALLIBLE!


You have to love it.

Of course it IS wrong in many many ways. But you will flatly deny this ... and not see any reason to check.

YOU can't be wrong either!!

Not to be disrespectful to anyone and their beliefs. But for the sake of conversation heres something to think about. When a case goes to court to decide a verdict on an event they bring forth witnesses as evidence in the trial. In my lifetime Ive known and heard probably hundreds of "witnesses" that insist that the existence of God/Jesus is real. People delivered from drugs/alcohol/crime etc. I am also evidence because without a doubt I would be dead if not for him. There is lots of evidence for his existence but people want to be their own God so they dont want to believe because then he might cramp their style. Problem is, when we kick God out, that opens the door to the other side and that other side is... evil. We live in a "civilized" nation with education and technology and lots of money yet our nation is crumbling right before our eyes. I was a sociology major and if people could see the statistics of where we are as a nation it s scary. The violence, STD' rate, divorce rate, kids shooting kids and on and on. According to PHD. Brene Brown we are the most medicated, obese, in debt, addicted society in the history of the U.S. So in spite of all of our "advances" we are even more of a mess. Even more evidence is that prophecies in the Bible are coming to pass right in front of our eyes but people cant see it because they don't want to . (A good read for any "risk takers" out there ("The Harbinger" ) ps. harbinger means warning.

You're right. We as a society have turned our back on God. If you could plot this on a graph, coincidentally this would coincide with the increase in violence, drugs, gangs, etc. People wonder why this is happening but it's pretty clear.

You would have to show on the graph that as the population of atheists, or non-believers increase, that population is increasing its rate of drug, gang, etc. activity at a greater rate than the general population.

"Turned out back on God." I hope you realize that a lot of other religions came way before Christianity...I really hope you do. People had their backs turned on God before God even came up in a conversation...


"...People delivered from drugs/alcohol/crime etc. I am also evidence because without a doubt I would be dead if not for him. There is lots of evidence for his existence…"
I hear this often, that there is lots of evidence… Can you provide some kind of documentation that show in specific cases that becoming free from drugs, alcohol, crime, etc. is due to the action of Jesus rather than other factors such as medication, counseling, a strong personal will?
Not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to see the evidence.

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Same here. But I used to be a muslim. Now Im an atheist.

I'm not atheist but I feel Like everyone that preaches god is not so godly, they are always the first ones to make you feel bad about yourself or to judge you on looks

I wouldn't want to generalize, but, yes, there are too many people in well-meaning religions that are not well-meaning themselves.

If they are judging you on looks then they are not actually following the Bible they claim to preach from :)

Hey I'm a Christian but but God teaches me and I know this from personal experience for being judged for not fitting in with what the NORM is, I respect your views. I try not to push them on others, unless I feel they might help. Let me know if that certain person contacts you again.

Thank you for the help. I appreciate that you are open to other religions, more Christians should be like you.

Hell no it's not.. but you should seriously look up pantheism and agnosticism. (WE) do not even know what life really is. I only go by (science) -but I have read many religious texts and understand their origins better than the people who listen to the charlatans and their personification of a 'god' being. The modern religious idea of 'god' and my idea of 'god' a very different things.. Strict Atheism makes no sense neither. There is no book and there is no human past, present, or future who will ever understand exactly what the singularity of consciousness really is -living and even non-living on a quantum level/beyond...

Well, simply stated. On a quantum level everything has a consciousness of it's own and reacts to ours... We don't understand why this is. Chopra goes a little too far with assumptions. Is there a specific point you'd like me to get to?

The Quantum Double-Slit Experiment* The Placebo Effect* The now (redacted) hundredth monkey experiment with faces done on humans and The Holographic Universe Theory. The third is debatable..... Like I said, I only go by science... This is an interesting topic though. Allot of scientist overlook what they cant explain and MANY cannot explain quantum mechanics and WHY sub-atomic particles actually ACT differently while human beings are viewing/measuring them. We do have equations for probability though.

-I agree. My Idea of 'god' is not a religious one by any means. It is simply the sum of all things. Trying to personify everything we can not understand in a book or religion is ridiculous. I have my own theory about consciousness being singularity/shared 'energy' ... That is just MY personal theory though. Take that with a grain of salt. I only believe what I do because it explains some aberrations in our current scientific understandings and consciousness itself I believe to be in line with alternate dimensions etc. You can't say I'm wrong and I certainly can't say that you are. I'm just saying that atheism belongs in the same bucket as religion -I don't pretend to assume anything.

Do you have faith in this? there is a probability that god exists. It would be more logical not to adhere to any belief system at all.

Greater than zero

I'm an Athiest aswell but i respect those who are religious.

Can someone define the line between agnosticism and atheism for me please? In fact, religious people WTF is 'God' anyway?! -BRIGHT/EDUCATED answers only... ~that means above and beyond the Bible/Quran. No one can do that here though. I understand that much.


Look it up educate yourself! When I was your age I enjoyed making religious people look like idiots.. Hell, I can even tailor Jesus'/Muhammad's words into my own non-religious viewpoints. ....most of Christianity and Islam is based on 'pagan' male phallic symbols if you must know.. Even Solomon's Temple was based on the phallic symbols and sex. That's all! -we are all ignorant beasts. Wonder where the word (seminal) comes from?? ..think about it.

I don't want to go around making fun of religious people.

That they are them no matter what and they stick to their belifes

Thats a good point.

Not at all. My favourite thing is that they stick to what the world was, not what it has ended up as.

Just saying nobody really knows what this universe thing is anyhow.

No, you're right. That's why people fill it with imagination.

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I believe in god but not the bible and my family gives me a lot of crap for it >.

Nope it is not.

Depends where you live.

yeah i agree, i am not an athiest but i do agree with you. i just have one question, were you raised athiest or self concioussly chose to be athiest?

Were you raised by christians? What difference does it make

just asking a question. it woulda been nice if i got an actual answer here, and yes i was raised by christians, but there are some things in the bible i do not believe in.

What like all of it? From the very first sentence of the bible to the last is a huge lie. I really dont see how people believe that stuff. Just because the way it was written makes you have to believe it?

no, sadly for you, not all of it, i still want an answer to my first question

i like to pull from all religions, but i'm not gonna try to persuade you as you shouldn't try to persuade me. i have nothing against athiest.

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believing or not believing is not a matter of words we say or things we admit or deny. I think its a way of life and the Bible or Qur'an or any other holy book are the guide to ease that life. So, if you created your own guide you are a believer as long as that guide you made is not harming anybody.

no its not
its common sense :)


You are so right. But many ignorant people look down on those who don't believe in a god. I'm not atheist but I know some people who are and they are truly good people. Some of the worst kinds of humans go to church every week but they treat their neighbors like dirt. Total hypocrites who actually think they're going to heaven just because they "believe". I think a truly loving and intelligent God is much more concerned with how we treat each other than whether we believe he or she exist or not. But the morons will try to tell you differently,

Was the women named amazinggod?

How do you know... never mind she friended me and I was like NOPE! I don't know how many other accounts she created

Same, she friended me and I was like, who the heck are you?

Yeah I know... creepy. I friended her and she say that she wants me to believe in God or some crap like that. Next day she sends another request as someone else and says she constantly gets bullied for believing in God

That's her, the bully queen. I would say flag her and block her, but she creates new users almost daily to get past the blocking.

She is also lordissofar, and about 15 other names. Our resident spammer.

I think another is Jesuslover and like 100 others.. she's really getting annoying. She creates a new account everyday

Wow, this women must be desperate for god or Jesus or something

This is her, yes

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I agree. I was raised in an atheist family (although grandparents were protestant), and it doesn´t make me a worse person. Did read the Bible, and books by Aristotle, Spinoza and Marx. I call myself a spritual humanist nowadays.

I agree. I don't believe in the bible or God as well. Mostly due to the fact that I don't have a reason to believe in them.

Do you have a definition of god?

Hmmm, no not really. I think of him as someone that was made up.

That's more of an assumption rather than a scientific analysis. no different than saying giant squids are made up.

True. The only thing that matters is that we do no harm to any living creature and treat other people, animals and nature with love, kindness and respect. Religion is man-made and it preaches more discrimination, foltering and violence. That's not what love would do.

I assume you never wash your hands then, in order to avoid harming creatures.

I assume you can't comprehend basic concepts since you over-analyze everything to an such an extent that all ideas would implode upon themselves if you had an foothold in the guidance of the universe.

*to such an extent

I do wash my hands, child.

So you kill billions of creatures on a daily basis?

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A curiosity but have you read the bible? only saying you disbelieve what a book says with out reading it is rather naive although the book its self has unfortunately been badly edited / mistranslated by the roman empire to enhance mystisiem and to control the population the ones who tried keep the non mystical version (a group of people called the gnostics) where hunted down and killed but some of there texts a have recently been rediscovered and translated despite damage due to age (thankfully they where stored in sealed clay pots ).

I have read the bible.

A curiosity but have you read any science books? Only saying you believe what a books says without reading the opposing viewpoint it is rather naive...

(By the way, you have some glaring grammar errs and it pained me to alter your sentence while keeping the atrocious sentence structure.)

(Unfortunately I'm a physicist and as many numbers users find linguistic systems ludicrous as they seem to be based arbitrarily on regional preference. How ever if you care to discontent rather than form I'm happy to continue). Obviously on this matter I'm not saying that I am opposed to science (If i had intended to I would have typed it). What I am saying is that there are many instanced where the two do not disagree. I also find it mildly annoying when people think that what is logical and rational is by default scientific let alone fact. I tend to find the biggest problem that atheist's have with religious concepts is a lack of definition this unfortunately is not helped by many of the religious community who are merely spouting what they where told to think rather than investigating the subject properly.

(Not an excuse for having incorrect grammar...)
But the way you are saying it makes it seem so. I have indeed read the bible, and many of its occurrences seem more like phenomena than facts. The reason I value science over the bible is because science contains theories that were tested and proved vigorously, while most of the bible seems like something straight out of a fairytale...things that don't seem plausible (at least, that's what I make of the ones that are circulating around the United States filled with talking snakes and crap). I do believe though that some of what the bible contains could just be dramatized versions of actual events. The rest were probably concocted by humans.

(There are no set universal rules for grammar in fact grammatical markings only appeared in order to aid thous unable to read silently with out them a few century ago.)Like i said the text was actively doctored Do you have any specific objections to the content of the bible thing you find impossible to explain with in the currently know capability's of the human race?

specific i said om not going to write a book for you

They are dynasty's not individuals.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth is gensiss your link has errors right at the start.

Can you point to a deviation between the big bang theory and genesis? beginning, then energy and gas in a void, then light so we have star formation, then planetary solidification, then water upon the earth, then plants then the collision of earth with the moon, then we have life turning up under the sea,then raptors , then mammals, then humans. i have just typed this in order reading from genesis it matches scientific theory.

ahh i see your reading error you think earth means the planet earth hahha ha lol no it means matter the planing earth is referred to as heaven and if formed from firmament being fundamental solid matter such as rock

the making of the sun refers to its reappearance after it was blocked out following the collision with the earth by the moon before this there would only have been one great light in the sky. then darkness then we have 2 lights 8-P

Try reading Shakespeare and you will make the same errors. It is being literal in this instance despite mistranslation.language changes and differs from area to area and mutates over time I told you this earlier.

I have also given you what it actually says

approximately 14 billion years but with each year before the previous being shorter than the one before.

Are you trying to compare universal age with the age of the human species?

Oh my god. Why dont you just say "youre poor grammer makes me think less of you as a person therefore you are stupid" if youre going to debate him dont be an ******* about it

If people acre more about the wrapping than the content that's up to them. Its easier to attack a person than there statement. It doesn't bother me I wouldent expect a language professor to work out how to use sub quantum energy in a meaningful way.

It is theoretically possible for someone to live for 969 years-- it would take a lot of divine intervention, but it is very possible. Anyway, I have more problems with Noah's ark. A ship that large cannot sail. This has been tested in the past.

enjoy 8-P that's satellite imagery baby.

Noah's Ark is supposed to have happened over 4,300 years ago. Even had it existed, it would not be here today.

Wow...that one comment became such a large comment chain that I am not even going to read it...give yourself a pat on the back, you have wasted a significant amount of your life...but it's okay.

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Thanks captain obvious

...Well, here's the thing. There was this woman on here who kept on constantly messaging me. I simply told her that I did not believe in the bible.
...she reported me to the police...
Yup, she allegedly reported me for not believing in the bible. She said I was "harassing" her by not believing in the word of her God.
Some people can't comprehend Freedom of just doesn't go through their thick skulls. Sometimes stating the obvious is necessary, because there are butt chunks out there who can't understand complex ideas...

Wow just wow

Aw, I saw that comment! :) That was funny. To be fair though, she reported you for the expression of your atheism, not the atheism itself.

You actually couldn't have seen most of those comments because they were in private messages, including the ones where she told me I was "harassing" her and "bible-bashing" and that I hate all Christians simply because I didn't believe. Yup...totally about my "expression of atheism". You know what I said to her the very first time I saw her comment? I politely told her it was insulting, she expanded it... She continuously messages me and adds me to her circles on her new accounts...

Ah. I must've been thinking of something else than. Well, she'll figure her life out one day.

LOL what a freaj

how do you know she actually reported you to the police? i could see if you lived in certain countries where religious police have more power than the regular police, but in that case you wouldnt be typing cause you would probably be dead or in jail.

No, I wouldn't be "dead" or in "jail" because I live in the United States and none of what I did was illegal.

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I would agree to this as a response, but as its own thread... kinda begging for an argument. Anyway, what some people will never understand is that even if I happen to be wrong in my beliefs, it will merely be an intellectual mistake I've made, and not a real offense. The act of not believing something because I found it implausible is not a crime worthy of any punishment.

Very true. Though there are people out there that think and feel like it should be. I'm NOT one of those. I'm neither religious, an atheist, or agnostic. I don't know if there is a term for what I am.
I get hell for it too from the various religions. I'm on a no contact list for Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons. They wanted to talk Bible with me, so I did and they didn't like what I told them about the bible.

No it isn't, but why insist on attacking others? I'm an atheist. I don't believe in a deity, but I love Christmas, I don't shriek at the site of a nativity or cross, I don't attack others for their beliefs. My happiness doesn't depend on someone's unhappiness. New age atheists love to forget the freedom part. Imposing your will on others is NOT freedom.

...Not once in my life have I attacked a Christian simply for their belief in Christ and I have no clue what you're going on about...

When did I "insist on attacking others"? Are you even commenting on the right post right now? Please read my OP again...I think you need to take a reading comprehension class...

True, but without Jesus, there is no enteral life.

Again, I don't believe in Jesus, God, Satan or any of that. You may believe in him, but I do not. If you can't accept that, and if you can't stop trying to stuff your religion down my throat, then please don't comment on an Atheist forum. Saying that "without Jesus, there is no eternal life" does not phase me...

You have every right to believe that, but I have every right to not believe in that. Your religion isn't the "best" religion. Your religion is the "supreme" and "only" religion. There are many other religions out there, and you guys need to understand that not everybody is going to believe what you believe.

I understand you and respect you. I know everybody is not going to believe what I believe. Before I leave, I just want you to leave with one last thought of mine. I am not about religion. I am about relationships. Good day!

And there it is, another Christian trying to divorce Christianity from religion by saying what he has is a relationship-something special, not a religion, different from other religions.

There was "enteral" life before Jesus. There was a bunch of centuries (I think the total was like 10,000 years) before Jesus was even born. And in that time there was eternal life after death.

So you're saying that God punishes people WITHOUT them having committed an actual crime?

No, I am not. Look at the Ten Commandments. Ever broke any of them. Yes? Then good news, you are an already flawed human being, in need of forgiveness.

So he set up a world so stacked against us that we have to actually go over to him and beg for our lives so he won't send us to his little torture chamber, yes? And as a failsafe, original sin, in case someone cheats the system.

No, he did not. He created us perfect in a perfect world. There was Adam and Eve living in an uncursed paradise. They choose to disobey God's instructions. The world and all of humanity fell that day. We are sinners now. Evil as come into us.

Energy can not be created or destroyed.

There's no "enternal" life anyway, so...

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Yes, but it does get you to Hell.

...Your preaching isn't going to work on me. I simply don't believe in Hell. If we reverse this conversation:

You: Believing the bible or God is not a crime.

Me: Yes, but you will still decompose in the ground since all you are is a sack of meat and bones with a brain and there is no afterlife.


Did that conversation sound ridiculous to you? Yes, it did, because you believe in Heaven and Hell, so you think that there is an afterlife. I do not believe in the upper and lower realms, so I found your comment as ridiculous as a Christian trying to prove their religion to an Atheist by quoting the bible...

How would you know for sure? Just because a book says something doesn't make it fact. There are a lot of books out there.


Huh, I wonder how it can take me to a place that doesn't exist?

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Not (currently) in the free world at least.

Would you like to be friends in the future?


No it is not. Not anymore than believing in whatever those who are prone to believing believe in is.

Or a victimless crime!

Not a crime period Trevor. Not at all. Not in most developed nations of the world.