Let Me Set Things Straight Why Humans Are Not Angels

The first beings God created were the angels. Angels are heavenly beings who are pure spirit, intellect, and will but who have no physical body as we do. Each angel is created independently by God, with its own intelligence, knowledge, and free will. However, since each angel is a totally separate creation from every other angel, they are not related in any way and have no way to reproduce themselves.Angels are spirits and are not reincarnated.

Angels cannot create. . . Jesus did not become an angel, Jesus became man and was born of the Virgin Mary. To say when we die, we become angels is a step down for us. This is why Lucifer rebelled against God, because Jesus did not become and angel (like Lucifer), Jesus became a human being and Lucifer could not stand playing second fiddle to human beings. That is why satan hates us. Lucifer was a seraphim, the highest of all the angels and the ones closest to God. But Lucifer rebelled against God because Jesus became a lowly human rather than an angel. Lucifer was one of the highest of angels but refused to worship the human Body of Christ. At that point, Lucifer, which means “light bearer” became “satan” which is the Hebrew word for “the accuser.” For because of Jesus' life, death, resurrection AND ascension, we are called to share in the very life of God. Our human nature sits at the right hand of the Father. This is something that the angels do not share and the devil just could not deal with that. The Archangel Michael, whose name means, “Who is like God?”, even though a lowly Archangel compared to the exalted seraphim, fought satan and cast him out of heaven. As human beings, we are allowed to share in God’s creative power. God has given us a body so that unlike the angels, we can cooperate in God’s creative power.

Angels are spiritual beings,simultaneously yet individually created, who don't have physical relationships and can't form families. They were not created to develop skills or talents or to have dominion over the world. They can't progress from a lower level to a higher level. A human being has a body and a soul; he is born, grows up and dies; angels do not go through the same process. They were complete at their creation. They always remain the same.

Angels are without bodies and hence invisible. Unlike God they are not omnipresent. Yet they seem to be able to be present in more than one place at the same time. They are not restricted or bound by time or space. Although they are pure spirits, they can take on human form whenever it is necessary in the history of salvation. But they often appear to man also in different forms.

Two angels came to Lot in the form of men to tell him to get out of Sodom. (Gen. 19) On the day of resurrection the women who went to the tomb saw two men "in clothes that gleamed like lightening" (Luke 24:4) Matthew records that an angel rolled back the stone and sat on it. "His appearance was like lightening, and h is clothes were white as snow " (Mat. 28:2).Angels are endowed with great intelligence (2 Sam. 14:20). They were given perfect intelligence at their creation.

Since they are in the presence of God they have a far clearer view of and a deeper insight into the meaning of all what happens in our world than we do. Our knowledge is always limited, even in our age of computers, internet and amazing technological advances. But angels do not have an autonomous activity alongside God; they function and intervene in the world only as God commands.Their amazing knowledge and power, like that of all creatures, are dependent and derived.They are capable of great feats of strength,whether it is in slaying over 180. 000 men in an evening, or setting an apostle free from prison (2 Kings 19:35; Acts 12).

I know this will shake many people but most of what you have heard about angels is new age philosphy and is false. I am just stating the cold hard facts if you dont like it tough.
Kohen Kohen 31-35, M 134 Responses Nov 5, 2010

Your Response


Very well said. No I'm not atheist. Thank you for your thorough response. You have said that The Bible is the Word of God. This is what you believe about the Bible and that's all I wanted to know.

Your explanation of Jeremiah 8:8 makes as much sense as any other I've read.

:) I am not condemned. God will decide that and not you or me. Also, angels are real. Also, we all reincarnate. The bible has a lot of truth, but there are many things that are manipulated by man to gain control over people.

puck61 your welcome keep the faith

God bless

MIGHTY921 that's what you believe but that's not in the bible.Believe what you want but know that what you are following is not Christianity, its a mixture of belief systems from satanism to whatever.As long as your clear with that, i have no problem.

No one is saying that the Bible is false, they are simply saying that, because it was written by men, and fallible men at that, that it may be....inaccurate. The Bible was meant as a guiding tool, not to be a detailed and infallible record of time, events, and beings. If man has so rarely encountered spiritual angels, then how do they know what they are like, or can be?

And Lucifer rebelled against God, not because of Jesus, but because God gave humans free will and choice. Angels did not have choice or free will. They were beings created solely for a purpose and were not easily capable of deviating from that purpose. Lucifer was jealous of how God treated Adam and Eve, how He gave them control of their lives and destinies, so Lucifer rebelled.

And just so you know, I have no "new age rubbish" or "new age teachers". I'm a 20 year old woman who has had a lot of my life to contemplate and think about the Bible, it's contents and it's implications on the world. The Bible is a book of contradictions. One passage will say that doing something will get the immediate wrath of God, while another a few chapters later, will say the same act is forgivable, so the Bible can not be taken at it's face value. It is something that needs to be reflected on and thought about before we can even begin to understand it. The "cold hard facts" stated in the Bible are not 100% fact and can't be seen as such since they were recorded by men, and man is fallible.

I am not trying to dispute your beliefs, I am simply showing you mine.

well without freewill lucifer wouldnt have had the power to rebel, that was a choice was it not? and to make a choice one must have the freewill to do so

Puck61, I agree with you. Even the writers of the Bible acknowledged that the act of writing the Bible, or the scribes who wrote it, can turn the words of truth into lies.

Kohen, believe that the Bible was inspired by God, but not literally dictated to the scribes by God, is a fundamental element of Catholicism. I was taught, by priests and nuns, for years that God inspired the writers of the Bible, and only after a very long time had passed since the life and death of Jesus. The Christians of that age thought the second coming would be in their lifetimes, so they told the stories by word of mouth. An unknown number of generations passed before those stories were compiled into the Bible, and pieces of those stories are liable to have been lost in the years they were told, or changed as they were told. Like playing a game of telephone, the longer the story is told, and the more people who tell it, the more likely it is to change.Believing this doesn't make you an Atheist. I am a devout Catholic and it is one of our fundamental beliefs, one that I have been taught all my life.

Words are symbols that were created by humans to describe the interpretations of their past experiences associated with what they are percieving. When one reads and teaches the words they perceive from another about god, they have different meaning to the words.

People ask others to show them god, people ask god to show them god, but god is found within. This is one of the many things jesus wanted to teach that through urself, you will have eternal life. Through your higher, inner, christ self. God talks to everyone and not just prophets, but no one listens. They will listed to others and texts 2000 years ago, but not to god itself.

Aryiale you are very mistaken let me explain Satan’s fall from heaven is symbolically described in Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. While these two passages are referring specifically to the kings of Babylon and Tyre, they also reference the spiritual power behind those kings, namely, Satan. These passages describe why Satan fell, but they do not specifically say when the fall occurred. What we do know is this: the angels were created before the earth (Job 38:4-7). Satan fell BEFORE he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden (Genesis 3:1-14). Satan’s fall, therefore, must have occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and BEFORE he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Whether Satan’s fall occurred a few minutes, hours, or days before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden, scripture does not specifically say.

The book of Job tells us that, for a time at least, Satan still had access to heaven and to the throne of God. “One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, ’Where have you come from?’ Satan answered the LORD, ‘From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it’” (Job 1:6-7). Apparently at that time, Satan was still moving freely between heaven and earth, speaking to God directly and answering for his activities. At what point God discontinued this access is unknown.

Why did Satan fall from heaven? Satan fell because of pride. He desired to be God, not to be a servant of God. Notice the many “I will...” statements in Isaiah 14:12-15. Ezekiel 28:12-15 describes Satan as an exceedingly beautiful angel. Satan was likely the highest of all angels, the most beautiful of all of God's creations, but he was not content in his position. Instead, Satan desired to be God, to essentially “kick God off His throne” and take over the rule of the universe. SATAN WANTED TO BE GOD, and interestingly enough, that is what Satan tempted Adam and Eve with in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:1-5). The fall occurred before this read your bible!How did Satan fall from heaven? Actually, a fall is not an accurate description. It would be far more accurate to say God cast Satan out of heaven (Isaiah 14:15; Ezekiel 28:16-17). Satan did not fall from heaven; rather, Satan was pushed out of heaven.

The Bible is NOT a weapon! People need to stop using the quotes as if they were fighting for the very basis of their faith.

Kohen, I know and understand that Lucifer fell before the temptation, but no man, not even the authors of the Bible can say with 100% surety, for what reason he rebelled. He wanted to be God, but did you ever consider that he wanted to be God, because Lucifer, with his pride damaged by God's generosity toward man, thought he could be a better god than God?

Satan is the demonization of an angel who has been, more or less, demoted to warden of the damned. His punishment for rebellion is to forever be burdened with care of those humans who have fallen. In my studies, I feel that Lucifer tempted Adam and Eve out of spite, trying to prove to God that they were a failed creation, not worthy of His grace.

The passage from Job you quoted, also does not say that Lucifer entered Heaven uninvited. God simply asked him "Where did you come from" and did not demand to know why Lucifer was in Heaven. There is no context to his appearance before God, just simply that he was there. He then reports his goings on to God and makes a bet with God, still trying to prove that he knows human nature better than the Creator.

When I fall, I am not implying that Lucifer literally fell from Heaven, but more imply that he fell from grace. He was no longer God's favorite creation or most valued servant.

I have read my Bible, many times, and have studied it for over 13 years. I am well aware that Lucifer, if he WAS the serpent, tempted Adam and Eve to be LIKE God, not to BE God, saying "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:5) And the Bible never said the serpent in the Garden was Lucifer, but instead that he was "more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made." (Genesis 3:1)

With Kindness, Aryiale

God created "hell." Everyone blames lucifer, satan, demons for making them do bad things. Take responsibility for yourselves.

Lucifer loved god, that is why he rebelled so their will be duality. Hot and cold, good and evil, love and hate.

Jesus knew he would be betrayed and knew who would? Jesus knew his teaching would get manipulated so he demonstrated it by acting it out. Jesus asked judas to betray him. He asked him to take the bad reputation. Judas was very loyal and did this.

I do not references from texts, I only want actual experiences.

Might921: Agreed. Satan, which is the name that HUMANS gave Lucifer meaning "accuser", is basically just the warden of hell and the souls who are condemned there. He isn't the cause of all that is bad, but more the angel in charge of after death discipline.

There is no verse or passage in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan. The fall of Lucifer described in Isaiah 14:12 is likely the same that Jesus referred to in Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” A similar fall is depicted in Ezekiel 28.

Isaiah 14:12-18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer” in the King James Version and the “morning star, son of the dawn” in the NIV. Other Bible versions call him “Day Star,” “shining star,” and “the bright morning star.” These variations are due to differences of opinion about how to translate the Hebrew word helel. Regardless, the description of the one referred to shows that it can be none other than Satan. We know from Jesus’ own words in Luke 10 that Satan fell from heaven. So, when Isaiah refers to Lucifer or helel being cast down to earth (Isaiah 14:12), it can be none other than Satan. The reason for his fall is found in verses 13 and 14: “You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’” This has always been Satan’s desire – to be God, and it is the very temptation he used in the Garden of Eden to get Eve to disobey God: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5) which you keep referring to.

Ezekiel 28 is another passage thought to refer to Lucifer/Satan. Although it begins with Ezekiel being commanded by God to “take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre” (v 12), an evil idolatrous king, it soon becomes clear that the passage is referring as well to the power behind that king—Satan. Verse 13 says he was “in Eden, the garden of God.” Clearly, the king of Tyre was never in Eden. Verse 14 says, “You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.” Apparently, Lucifer/Satan had a position of guardian angel in heaven “among the fiery stones,” thought to be the shining precious jewels that are seen in other descriptions of heaven (Exodus 24:10; Revelation 21:18-21). Since the king of Tyre was never in heaven, either, this can only be describing Lucifer. The rest of the passage describes the reason he was cast out of heaven. Because of his beauty, his heart became proud and his wisdom was corrupted (v. 17). Pride in his perfection, wisdom and beauty (v. 12) became the source of his downfall, and God threw him to the earth (v. 17). This was witnessed by the Lord Jesus in heaven BEFORE His incarnation (Luke 10:18).

To summarize, the Hebrew word helel is translated "Lucifer." He was cast out of heaven for his sin of pride and his desire TO BE GOD. Jesus referred to seeing Satan being cast out of heaven. Therefore, we can conclude that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same.

Your own Catholic catechism clearly states that the bible is divine revelation.Now for you to question that would be to question your whole Faith.Your views may be what you feel but its not what the Bible states.

Vatican Council states that "All scripture (both Old and New Testament) is inspired by God".

Aryiale my Roman Catholic friend if you truly are Catholic which I doubt you would be eligible for excommunication. I think you better go for Confession after this.

"But even if we, or an angel from Heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be anathema!"

Galatians 1:8

kohen ariyale is not Catholic shame on you whomever you are for giving us Catholics a bad name whatever you are.I apologize for anyone else reading this post n behalf of us real Catholics.

Awsome man.

Aryiale you claim to be Roman Catholic and to have studied the bible for thirteen years, yet how can you make such a mistake as to claiming that "He (Satan) isn't the cause of all that is bad” . I really question the authenticity of your Catholic faith. Someone who has studied the bible that long would not make such a mistake.

Let me start from what Christ said Jesus said:

“If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:42-47

1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

2 Corinthians 2:11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

If he was confined to heaven why then would he be setting snares for us.

2 Cor 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

1 Peter 5:8

Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Who is the God of this age Satan is called the prince of this world, and the god of this world.

Need I go on.

Peter who you consider your first pope and an apostle of Christ stated this. Now are you going to doubt Peter as well as a "Devout Roman Catholic"???Why not renounce your Catholic faith while your at it. Your view points would raise a few alarm bells to any Christian let alone Roman Catholic.

I was raised christian and agree with what kohen said.very valid points.By the way marid nice pic.

Aryiale allow me to correct you Satan means accuser in Hebrew not Lucifer . Lucifer means light-bearer and is a Latin word.

If you are a person who thinks of thereself as better than someone else that God made you are no better than Satan himself in which is the reason why he fell from grace in thinking that he was better and could be better than God. Hellooooo have you not even read the words you wrote. No one is better than the next we are equals. God definitley wants it like that or why would he have made it like that? He threw satan out for wanting it different. I think if you follow satan and want to be better than others and such God might just throw you out also regaurdless of how much bible knowledge you have. I am sure Satan has even more knowledge than you ever thought about having.

I am offended to be told I am not Roman Catholic. I been confirmed in the faith and have connections to my entire church. I also consider myself to be a fairly open-minded person who has studied the Bible and various other belief systems my whole life. I have searched the Bible and found no statement in there that flat out says that Satan (or Lucifer) is the root of all evil. I was hoping that I would be met here with open mindedness and well reasoned thought, because I know that it is possible among people of faith. I am ashamed of the blind ignorance that pervades this discussion.

I am most ashamed of you CATHOLICWARRIOR for assuming to know me because what I was taught by my church differs from you. I have tried to be reasonable and simply present ideas and beliefs, personal and from my community, that may spark independent thought, and possibly have a well reasoned and interesting discussion. You offend me, my entire parish, and the Bishop who confirmed me by saying that I am not a Catholic and thinking to apologize for me. If anyone gives Catholics a bad name, it is intolerant fanatics and bigots like you.

I feel offended that the tolerance and free discussion that was so common here is now gone.

Aryiale I see no reason why you should be offended, apart from a few remarks from catholicwarrior which were a bit aggressive. But pertaining to our discussion your views would be contrary to what your catechism teaches which is based on the Bible. It does not supersede it because the Bible as I have stated according to your catechism is divine revelation.

Your Catholic Catechism states:

414 “Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.”

Satan very definitely is a real, personal being, the fountainhead of all unbelief and of every kind of moral and spiritual evil in the world.To the Christian, the existence of Satan as a real person is proved by the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ recognized him as such. He referred to him frequently by name (e.g., Luke 10:18; Matthew 4:10; etc.) and indeed called him “the prince of this world” (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) I explained this above.

The root of all sin, in both man and angels, is the twin sin of unbelief and pride—the refusal to submit to God’s will as revealed by His own Word and the accompanying assertion of self-sufficiency which enthrones the creature and his OWN will in the place of God. This was the original sin of Satan, rejecting God’s Word and trying to become God himself. He said in his heart, “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God . . . I will be like the most High” (Isaiah 14:13,14). Again, these could hardly be the actions or motivations of an impersonal force.

God did not create Satan as an evil being, however. The angels, like man, were created as free spirits, not as unthinking machines. They were fully able to reject God’s will and rebel against His authority if they should chose to do so.

Jesus also told us of some of the characteristics of Satan. Christ said he was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him, and that when he speaks he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).

There are many temptations that we sadly fall into because our flesh is naturally weak, but we have a God who will not let us be tempted beyond what we can bear; He will provide a way out (1 Corinthians 10:13). We can therefore be victorious and then will thank the Lord for deliverance from temptation. Jesus’ experience in the desert helps us to see these common temptations that keep us from serving God effectively. Furthermore, we learn from Jesus’ response to the temptations exactly how we are to respond—with scripture.

The forces of evil come to us with a myriad of temptations, but all have the same three things at their core: lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. We can only recognize and combat these temptations by saturating our hearts and minds with the Truth.

The armour of a Christian solider in the spiritual battle of life includes only one offensive weapon, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17). Knowing the Bible INTIMATELY will put the Sword in our hands and enable us to be victorious over TEMPTATIONS.

l0oree you can make all the personal attacks on me but the word of the Lord doesn't change and will never change it will be there long after you or i leave this world because it is truth.

You may not like me but and that doesn't really matter i am not here to win a Mr. popularity contest , but if you consider yourself christian follow what the Lord says not what a psychic channeling a demon says.

Aryiale let me refer you to a Catholic lady who was a zealous teacher of the New age and suffered great personal loss because of these false teachings which are from the pits of hell itself.It left her barely clinging to life in the end.

If your christian you will want to view this and are truly sincere about your faith.

Kohen, I am incredibly sincere about my faith and need no one but God to save my soul. I thank you for your concerns, but I no longer feel as though there is any free thought allowed in this discussion, if I am to truly consider myself a person of faith. I was raised, and taught to first be myself as a child of God, and then to believe the words of men who lived before me, and to use those words as a guideline for my life. I was never taught that those words should rule my every thought and action. For me to be who I am, is a testament to God, and to believe his words as I do is a part of His will. I do not need to be saved from myself, if God made me who I am and is forgiving of error.

Aryiale well that is why God gave us his word to help guide us to him.We can easily be led astray if we are not in touch with what scripture states.God is merciful indeed, but that doesn't give us the excuse to do what we feel like when we feel like.Picking what suits us best in scripture and leaving the rest to suite our present needs is not sincere.If we are to embrace Christ , we must embrace his full message not just part of it otherwise we would be deceiving ourselves and God.

Christ gave us his teachings in the bible which were complete, why search for anything else?His teachings were straight forward and to the point leaving room for no error in interpretation.

John 1:14

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

i am catholic too you are a disgrace ariyl you are no catholic sulk all you want.Your bishop would be ashmd.

theheavensentangel you clearly did not read what i posted.Read carefully what i stated that they were referring to the power behind the king in Ezekiel 28 which is Satan.I stated the same for Isaiah please read carefully before jumping to conclusions.I went on further to explain what was referenced in Ezekiel 28.Go back and read before misquoting me.

theheavensentangel as i said before it is a euphemism.It is not actually the king of Babylon.I explained this in a previous post.You must have misinterpreted it read carefully.

check out unseen bible - the zodiac interpretation, It makes a lot of sense to me!

sorry i ment the unspoken bible website

it sets out a theory that The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun,

in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun,

and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun.

-Thomas Paine

If Jesus was an historical character, he was one of a number of cultists who at that time were preaching Armageddon. The spin meisters who wrote the Gospels had no information on him except what grew to legendary proportions after several decades of oral story telling. The man, if he existed, was a nobody. It's what was written about him, combined with the brutal efforts of Church fabricators that made him so famous.

Fortunately, centuries of Christian book burning cannot erase the stars. By looking at the Gospels through the eyes of an astrologer, we can understand why the Gospels follow the same story outline. The tale of Jesus takes place within one Zodiac year. By breaking down the Gospels according to each of the twelve Zodiac constellations, we can track Jesus along the sun's ecliptic through references to each motif that the constellations correspond to.

Astrological timetables are enumerated into twelve ages based on a great cycle spanning almost 26,000 years. The age of Pisces began around 6 BCE, which is why the latter parts of the Gospels refer often to fish. Approximately in 2012 we enter the Age of Aquarius. Christians have been waiting for Jesus immediate return for 2,000 years. Luke gives hope that he might return in the Age of Aquarius.

moppet the New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels to the second century A.D. more than 100 years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which i strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.

It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.

Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshiping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history.Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. Saying that he did not exist based on Thomas Paine who contradicted himself on many levels would be unreasonable.