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Why Does It Always Become A Fight?

I have been bad about it at times myself.

I've said terrible things about people and them about me.

I STILL don't like many people here.

But I'm trying to improve (for personal reasons, not because I'm a love and lighter).

So I put my mind to work about why we fight.

Several people on this site have pointed out that the human need to be "right" (and make alternative views "wrong") is an important part of the problem.

Others have mentioned the tendency of religions to divide the world into "us and them". Both of these points are important when trying to understand why people fight over beliefs.

However, these answers don't go very deeply into the question. Why do we feel that its so important to be "right"? Why do we divide the world into us-and-them?

The answer to the first question is something like this:

Our minds have the ability to form concepts: little nuggets of "knowledge" which seem to be self-contained things we can hold on to. We like concepts because they are a convenient kind of "package" for knowledge, and we can write them down, exchange them, etc. The trouble is that while they're very convenient, they also aren't very "true" -- they tend to distort reality in ways that are hard to see sometimes.

Nevertheless, we "cling" to concepts because it seems to make life more stable, predictable, and survivable: we've been tuned by millions of years of evolution to survive, and anything that seems to help is deemed important to the mind. One of the most important concepts we encounter is the concept called "myself": we imagine that there is a "me" which is entirely distinct, separate, permanent, and self-defined. Further, we imagine that this "me" is somehow identical with the concepts that it holds ( "I am a Christian", or "I am a Muslim", or even "I am an Atheist").

Once the mind has identified with its conceptual self-definition, the body joins the party and brings along its millions of years of evolutionary survival instincts: fight or flight, adrenaline, protect the herd and fend off threats, etc. Thus it is that those who cling to similar concepts are seen as "part of the herd", while those who have different concepts are seen as "them", or even as potential threats.

So the heart of the matter in fights over religion (or fights over any idea) is our confusion about the nature of the concepts we form, and our tendency to identify with them, thereby unwittingly enlisting the help of the body's survival instincts on behalf of mere philosophical abstractions. It sounds so technical and abstract spoken that way, but the consequences are ferocious and horrific sometimes.

And, contrary to PurityBringers story, we believers are just as guilty as everyone else.

The cure for this kind of thing is awareness: becoming aware of the nature of our own thinking, our own tendency to identify with and defend those thoughts, and the nature of "ego" or self-definition. When an individual reaches a certain level of clarity about these issues, they are much less vulnerable to this tendency to get into idea-wars, because they're aware of the underlying forces and the consequences involved. This is an important part of what it means to "awaken" in life.

Which brings me to a point I think we all, myself included, might want to take a moment to think about.

One of the first stories most people post on this forum is about how they "awakened". But then we immediately pick a side, get down in the mud and start slinging it at one another.

But would we do this if we are truly awakened?

Is this angelic behavior?

It seems, and I again include myself in this, pretty petty and pathetically human.

Do I believe in incarnated angels and Fallen?

Yes, I do.

Am I one of them?

I don't know, but I know I'm not going to claim it anymore until my behavior is a little less down to this earthly realm.

Oh... And don't give me any love and light peaceful praises...

I don't need the hypocrisy..

I just wanted to make you think.
Nox2102 Nox2102 31-35, M 16 Responses Sep 25, 2012

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... Well grym you still did not answer my questions,
What can I do for you when you have learned all you could from me?
You sound like a creep!!!!!

@grym you wrote:

" And there really isn't a whole lot more that you can teach me Banshee, but there is a lot that you can do for me."

Sounds like some blackmail or extortion threat,
You don't want me to teach you but you want me to help you in some way?

What the f..u..ck is up with this crazy threat?
You want me to do something for you,
That has nothing to do with debating about spiritual beliefs and sharing experiences as if to educate one another, learning from each other.

Okay please then explain to me why you are HERE and continuously stalking me,
You also said you knew exactly what you wanted from me on another post or is it this one, doesn't matter,
Fact stays this is your chance to tell me,
And stop sounding like some maniac stalking me with blackmail threats,
Seriously what is your case with me huh?

Explain and maybe if I see some good intentions instead of malevolent ones I would unblock you,
Because currently you don't seem all 24/7 threatening people like this on a spiritual forum!!!

PS grym we are well away on what? And who is we? Me and you, or you and some other troll hate pack backing you up?!!!

@grym
You sound like a crazy stalker and believe me I had tons of them before trolling me like this.. Are you an old fan just masquerading under a new username to get some form of payback, if you want to threaten me I don't want anything to do with you as how can we chat again if I blocked you??! Were you planning to attack and harass me further on other people's posts huh?! Now I won't stand for this!!!
.
For if I can't teach you anything,
What can I possibly do for you?
Do you have something against me?
Do you want to harm me in any way?
Your profile seems pretty empty and creepy,
In plain what the hell is your problem with me?
So very NON buddhist like or whatever the hell your beliefs may be!!!!
To come and harass people like this!

@grym

LMFAO
May your arrogance be a lesson to us all,
For you want to teach?
Yet you deem yourself unteachable
And refuse to see anyone as a messenger on your path to be treated with respect,
Well then it is clear you lack knowledge nor desire to accumulate such to behave yourself in a spiritually mature manner!

Arrogance and pride like that you have,
Well it always has a way of turning upon itself,
Don't see me as a messenger fine,
Don't see those around you as messengers fine,
You are just doing yourself in!

To each their own,
Enjoy!

@grym

No one has to have the need or urge to give a lesson,
They simply need to be...

I don't decide who deserves to get a lesson or not,
Who needs to learn a lesson is OUT OF MY CONTROL...


Anyone can give a lesson to anyone not only me,
Stop calling me names and arrogant...


Your arrogance blinds you,
Don't you know how this world works huh!?

Everyone learns from everybody constantly,
There may or may not even be a need to teach from the one giving the lesson!!!!

I feel sorry for you,
For have no one ever taught you a thing before?

Education has far more to do with than mere words or the intent to educate...
Or do you only take lessons from those who force their beliefs down your throat?

Clearly you are oblivious to subtle lessons in the air,
And learning from other people's behaviour by simply being who and what they are!!!!

I can't believe you would ask such an idiotic question,
And then insult me on top of that too!!!!

LMFAO...
Phiosophers or wannabe philosophers trying to sound wise,
Yet lacking any knowledge of how the world works seriously wtf?

... Where did lux's comments go?

Uhhmmm but we didn't speak private stuffs?!!!?

Heh she meant calling me by my first name Banshee.

Since my last name is my profile, I asked her not to use my first name in responses

RE hating the experience and wanting to warn...

There is a thin line or grey spot to everything in learning or growing from something,
Those who have only learned to HATE their experiences and not to LEARN from it to "LOVE" it,
As a lesson God put upon your path out of His loving heart to make you a better person,
A harsh lesson endured because God loves you...
Those who do not see the purpose in all cannot see the LIGHT in the darkness,
They only see the darkness...
They should not warn people of the experience but rather teach them how to come through it once they have found a way (a light in the) in and out of the darkness too,
By rather learning from/loving the experience,
Than hating it...
See it from a different perspective for your own well being and sanity!

one need to ask what people perceive as darkness,
think of it in this way,
people's ego blinding them to a lesson in disguise:

... yet what others perceive as darkness or hatred/intolerance might NOT EVEN BE THAT AT ALL,
but someone wanting to give a lesson which someone does not want to hear or refuse to learn.

They determine by the need they have to hate their experience and thus save others from the same suffering that hey themselves have endured.

Or at least from my perspective

... grym that is truly a stupid question, if you don't want to learn anything nor question things how would you EVER SPOT A LESSON in disguise coming from anywhere at all? really WTF?! Asking me how does people give lessons, well if you open your eyes you would see THERE ARE MANY WAYS to educate this pathetic human race LMFAO

@lux

... i AM just thinking well it is something FRESH to the only love and light, prim and proper stuff... it is something dark some would rather NOT face like those who live in se--x--less marriages... they would rather CRY, bittttch and moan about how miserable their lives are THAN SEEKING TO CORRECT IT OR TO GO OUT AND FIND A NEW PIECE OF ARSE to sc--r--e--w or go and search for real love other than being stuck in the meaningless situation they don't want to face...

what I am saying is that SOME CAN'T face the PROBLEMS, they can't face the darkness TO DIG INTO THE PROBLEM to get to a solution to BE HAPPY or to come to a clearer understanding of thing... ignorance is bliss, but not for too long, the longer someone runs from their problems and the underlying issues the more they suffer because they don't want to understand or to bring out the light in an obviously meaningless situation...

.... like some of the people that come into the IA forum, they are confused and wonder what they are NOT asking why AM I FEELING THIS WAY or where their feelings come from... SOME use their alter personas aka angel/demon TO RUN AWAY FROM REALITY OR THEIR PROBLEMS, and in doing so DON'T GET TO FIXING what needs fixing in the current reality...

IN OTHER WORDS their trauma or pain cannot be resolved if they hide behind this alter ego the whole time, some time they have to face themselves beneath the image of escape to get down to business FIXING THEMSELVES and not running away.
0 seconds ago

... lol yes s--e--x is part of the facts of life.. should be brought into the light like all the other FACTS OF LIFE dealing with hard and cold reality and shouldn't be run away from... I agree.

LMFAO lux,
Yay at least here's some action in the forum now,
Talks about s--e--x,
Cool!!!!
Ha ha

Read "A Matter for Men" and the series of the human race against the chtor. It is very fictional but address almost word for word the topics you have brought up. I mean im not sure if it would enhance your outside in vision but it really enhanced mine. Appreciate the incite thanks.

Lol vapple

Yes I think survival instinct tells you to let go and just go what the f..u..ck ever,
Whatever floats your boat,
Don't make it my problem,
The problem only arises when one wants to see where ONE FITS IN with another's view,
When one has a need to apply their lives to the beliefs of others,
Then the questioning and searching within that particular belief or faith can cause TROUBLE....

Alas, many belong to a faith yet do not QUESTION where they fit in,
Their minds are silent and they don't cause trouble for those around them nor for themselves,
Because they DO NOT WANT TO REALLY KNOW their origins or why someone would be part of a particular belief,
They just blindly join in the choir song of conformism like many christians...
They don't ask WHY IS THIS or THAT part of a belief,
Why should I follow the belief at all?
They just do it and attract no havoc to them.

That in my opinion is weak minded,
Yet again if you don't give a f..u..ck about God or your spiritual origins,
Then you won't really mind to QUESTION things that attract trouble in the form of people that come to challenge what you believe constantly after beginning the search...

Many don't want any belief challenged because they just don't give a f..u..ck really,
They could die believing a lie and it is nothing to them,
As long as they have "peace of mind" with no one screaming in their ears of words of intolerance to test and evaluate their beliefs,
Then they are perfectly happy!

I am glad when people come and test my beliefs honestly,
It makes me grow...
But those who can't handle opposing viewpoints take the coward's way out,
Toward animal instinct TO NOT GIVE two f..u..cks what others say,
And to believe what gives you a peace or silence of mind where others won't dare challenge your beliefs thinking you are sort of untouchable doing stupid things clinging unto something you believe is right just to not let go of the comfy little comfort zone of ignorance,
Because ignorance is bliss but it can hurt you if not addressed sooner or later!!!

+> true growth lies outside of the comfort zone, so when your beliefs get challenged say THANKS UNIVERSE and move on, don't stick with your ignorant view hassling those you don't like presenting it to you as an opportunity to grow!!!!

... They don't mind really to... Should be they DO NOT really CARE ENOUGH to QUESTION their own beliefs and getting scolded for it by others as to help form them as people... They don't like getting spanked or getting in line!!!

Thank you

To BE…..?

"unwittingly enlisting the help of the body's survival instincts on behalf of mere philosophical abstractions. "
Very well said. Very wise words!

...Those who live in fragments and shattered pieces RUN AWAY from the bigger picture,
I just thought about it today again,
When we die do all the little things that once drove us crazy on the earthly plane matter at all,
Or would we say thank you to the Universe or what the f..u..ck ever for slinging the sh!xt on our way in the first place,
To make us evolve or stronger on another spiritual growth cycle/phase?
We surely won't sit in a corner and feel sorry for ourself now will we?
So in this life and the here and now what does it make any difference?
To accept the challenge here in the present to take on any insane thing put on our path...
If there is a GOD or any higher regulating authority truly LOVING ALL as is said,
Then nothing is without reason,
Or maybe it has nothing to do with God but about what you make of life and your own soul's opportunity to shine forth into the world.