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My Rant:

I hate people who profess to be religious, but then pick and choose which parts of the Bible, or whatever text they read that week, to create their own interpretation of it. Either its the word of god and you adhere and abide by all its conflicting and contradictory information or you accept it's a man made text and is utterly fallible - wherby it isnt the word of god, so what the hell are you all so "faithfull" about?

Kikuchiyo Kikuchiyo 31-35, M 30 Responses Mar 11, 2008

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Imagine, if you will, for a moment, one of the greatest illusionists of all time - David Copperfield - is sent back in time around 2000 years ago. Remember, this is the bronze age! How do you think he would have been viewed in the light of his ability to create illusions, by the superstitiously ignorant people living in the same region that the myths surrounding Jesus and his "miracles" occured? <br />
It wouldn't just have been his (Jesus) followers' at the time that would have treated him as a "god", but everyone else that came in contact with him - Romans included!<br />
See where this is going? The Bible was written by men as was every other so-called "holy" book. Most religion today is a money making business very often utilised by cynical opportunists (plenty in the USA!) promising their followers a place in "heaven" in exchange for their dollars and a very extravagant lifestyle!

Lexus,..you are pretty wise. :)

MadMorrigan your comment made me laugh. <br />
The Lord has sent me and answerto this question:<br />
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?<br />
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Burn them instead, for they are obviously the devil incarnate trying to stop you from worshipping the Lord.

Exactly. And the term "religion" also gains you tax exemption in many cases! As to your last point, again, I agree. I'm sure any god can look after themselves...

Here, here!. Like I said: Beliefs themselves do not merit automatic respect and deference. Its a shame that people take attacks on beilef as an attack onthemselves. I am a conservative, I dont get upset or angry when someone states they are a liberal etc....why this special circumstance for religion?

Of course. And at no point had I personally attacked any individual on this site.

Live and let live. What is the point of stirring up trouble. This isn't the Crusades or the Inquisition, it is just a discussion, right?

There are bullies on both sides of this issue I agree and I should have stayed out of this one. <br />
Sorry everyone. sometimes I stop and comment when I know I shouldn't.<br />
These stops always do teach me something.<br />
If not about the topic about the people who post and comment. You guys have a great discussion.

bluegeorgia -- I haven't gone to the believers groups, so I'm not sure what goes on there in terms of discourse.<br />
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Atheists are a very small minority of the population, and I agree that sometimes we can get very animated in our language and discussions.<br />
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I do see your point, though, and I'm thinking about what should be an appropriate way of talking about these topics.<br />
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I think it's important to be respectful, even if I disagree with someone's beliefs, as long as those beliefs aren't causing harm to others.

Beliefs themselves do not merit automatic respect and deference. Humans certainly deserve some basic level of respect and respectful treatment, but beliefs aren't people. We should be polite and respectful towards the person, but we are justified in being harsh and critical of a person's claims. However much a person might take such criticism personally, we must separate ourselves from our beliefs. An attack on one shouldn't be treated as an attack on the other. If a belief or idea is to be respected, it must earn that respect

AGEP - I had thought of saying that, but I actually welcome an informed & rational debate.....when its informed, and does not resort to the catch all, religious full stop, of "faith" or "belief". Ignorance is not bliss

Believers will come to read these stories and will feel disrespected because they have. <br />
Some believers are very respectful of what others believe. I am one. All I would ask is that the name calling and putting people down because they believe stop.<br />
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I don't mind posts about what you do or don't believe but don't put people down for what they believe.<br />
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Surly you agree with this allen

bluegeorgia -- If this story was in the "I believe in God" group, then it would be causing agitation.<br />
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But this story is in the appropriate group for this kind of story.

Yet people who post their own beliefs in god arent trying to convert & are OK because its the opinion that YOU hold?!<br />
I have ample evidence of religious bullying if you like?

People who have there hearts and minds closed will never understand the issue of belief.<br />
Also people who post stories such as this seem to be looking to stir up anger in others and in my opinion are more or less bullies in a way. I should have passed this buy but I had to say my piece. Good day

AGEP - We do still get the occasional guest appearence....for example; The face of Jesus on a waffle, or a piece of toast, or the side of a chicken....he really does move in mysterious ways. I think its his pants

He is here...and I hear from Him often....:)

Keane -- Maybe he's been creating other universes and is more in love with his new creations than his old, very flawed one.

So he's in his dotage now, thats why noone hears from him?....."Why dont you ever visit!?"

God was an adolescent during the Old Testament, so he was still moody, prone to fits of rage, and very insecure, needing lots of validation from the people he created. As he has gotten older, he has mellowed out a lot and gain in maturity and wisdom.<br />
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I think the serotonin levels in his brain are higher, resulting in a God with much better impulse control.

Yet this is precisely what I mean! How can it be the "word of god" for example, when there are so many internal discrepancies? If a god meant it as a document to assist with the word being spread, then you would have thought he could have had a better editor! :)

Or, being so omnipotent, just written the stupid thing himself and made sure it remained always-relevant to the times, perhaps "miraculously" rewriting itself if the need arose - which it shouldn't have, because God, um, claims to know everything.

out of date yes...irrelevant no<br />
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snippets out of context....one can always make things confusing that way...<br />
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I am not here to convert you...not my thing....LOL<br />
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You can choose to beleive the Word of God or not...completely your choice of free will.<br />
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If you want to complain about some "Christians" being hypocritical....join the club...many are.<br />
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That being true does not in any way negate the value of Gods Word for me.

OK - SO weve just dismissed the Old Testament as out of date & irrelevant - one down, one to go - <br />
The New Testament: MT 1:6-7 The lineage of Jesus is traced through David's son, Solomon.<br />
LK 3:23-31 It is traced through David's son, Nathan....MT 1:17 There were twenty-eight generations from David to Jesus.<br />
LK 3:23-38 There were forty-three......MT 1:18-21 The Annunciation occurred after Mary had conceived Jesus.<br />
LK 1:26-31 It occurred before conception......MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism onward. The very purpose of John's baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel.<br />
MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah.......MT 3:16, MK 1:10 It was Jesus who saw the Spirit descending.<br />
JN 1:32 It was John who saw the Spirit descending.....shall I keep going?

I just went and read what Mad wrote...admit it caused a chuckle...<br />
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Very fine examples of missing the forest for the trees. <br />
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Have you ever used a story to teach a child a lesson? Have you ever used figurative examples to make a point more understandable?<br />
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Most of us have...as did I believe the mens hands who wrote the words on the page of the bible. Examples from the time.<br />
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Also...shocker of all shocks... Jesus changed the rules...in case you missed it. Old testiment applied to those of those times...new testiment to us. Laws wise that is. This doesnt mean there are not good things to be learned from the old testiment...just means its laws no longer apply.<br />
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It use to be illegal to drive a motor car down the road in town on sunday here. Hmm..... Is it still? or did the laws change along with the times?<br />
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Someone discovered this law was out of date and changed it....just as Jesus did.

When human laws change, it is because humans change them. Everyone is made aware to the best of any legislative body's capabilities. Most of the time, the people have a lot to do with changing said laws, not just local government. God claims to know all, see all, and be capable of absolutely anything. Why, then, would there be SO many contradictions in his holy book? Why so much hatred for women? Why so many laws made that he didn't really want people to follow? It simply doesn't make sense. And the worst part is Christians running around telling atheists who've actually bothered to read the ridiculous thing that we don't "understand" it. I've read it twice. I have met very few Christians who could claim to have read it even once. Yet I don't understand their religion, and they're supposed to have this incredibly firm grasp on it? They can't even manage to interpret IMPORTANT aspects of it from one church to the next!

Like I said, I dislike people who create their own interpretation of it, and pick and choose the bits they feel are right for them. If its the word of god, you have to adhere to it all. Including the points made by Mad Morrigan. We have already worked out what was written - a bunch of wildly disparate and contadictory texts - written decades after, that were arbitrarily chosen as a semi-coherent book, that have been subsequently passed through numerous translations and interpretations.

But its God's will to kill people who disagree, or convert them, or pray for them, or consider it divine fate and leave them be.......make your bloody mind up!!!

I think the Bible reveals a lot about the men who wrote it at the time and how they perceived the world.<br />
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Especially in the Old Testament, God was not a pleasant character.

Surely an infallible god would have made it clear....he had enough writers

I'll have a look at that....reading The Gospelof The Flying Spaghetti Monster - by Bobby Henderson (parody/humour) & Biblical Nonsense - Dr Jason Long at moment

Humans inability to comprehend or understand the bible does not make it wrong...

Clearly you've never read it.