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False Christian known as ........ YOU HAVEMYPERMISSION


just because Jane has a different view
doesn't mean she has insulted, as you put it > ever american meaning>>>> every

You really are a great fool...  
gypsy> no she is not! she is a good Christian women...

so again whatever you say is baseless, .............
 gypsy>no, it is baseless to you! not her! you  want her to feel / believe that it is, but it is not ...   

 So you are a Bible-denying "Christian".Basically you confirmed everything you sayis baseless...............  

 gypsy...>once again she is a goodChristian, and just because she doesn't
follow ur beliefs doesn't make her wrong or you right. 

you also just insulted God.....................
gypsy..>no she has not...  

great response to a hard head feminist like  this.  
gypsy>>she is far from a hard headed fem..........

she has her beliefs and she stands by them with dignity.  why do you want every one to believe what
you believe?? makes no sense!! non !!  
we are all different, what a sad boring lot we
would all be, if we all lived and spoke and
believed the same!!   in America we have the right to believe our
own faith in life.   have you for gotten our own history ????
the reasons why our ancestors boarded up
oN ships to sail to a new land ???

was to pursue religious freedom...and you
Both are denying Jane that freedom right
here on e/p   grant you Jane is not from America, but I
know punnish is...


2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ESV /
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

2 Timothy 3:5 ESV /
Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

Matthew 7:15 ESV /
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV /
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 1:16 ESV / They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

John 8:44 ESV /
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

1 John 4:1 ESV /
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

John 1:1-51 ESV /
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. ...

2 Thessalonians 2:1-17 ESV /
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? ...

Romans 5:18 ESV /
Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

Acts 17:11 ESV /
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

John 13:35 ESV
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Mark 6:11 ESV /
And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.”

Matthew 13:36-43 ESV /
Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. ...

Revelation 21:8 ESV /But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:1-15 ESV /
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. ...

Revelation 17:1-18 ESV /
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” ...

2 Peter 2:1-3 ESV /
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

2 Peter 2:1 ESV /
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

1 Timothy 6:20 ESV /
O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,”

John 3:16 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 1:14 ESV /
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:1 ESV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matthew 16:18 ESV /
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 13:24-30 ESV /
He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ ...

Revelation 12:5 ESV /
She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV /
All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Galatians 5:1-26 ESV /
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. ...

Acts 20:29 ESV
I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;

Matthew 7:15-20 ESV /
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ...

Matthew 7:1-29 ESV /
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...

Jeremiah 14:14 ESV And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.

Genesis 2:17 ESV /
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Genesis 1:27 ESV /
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Revelation 22:18-19 ESV /
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Revelation 21:1 ESV /
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Revelation 20:13 ESV /
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

Revelation 20:11-15 ESV /
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 18:4 ESV /
Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;

Revelation 13:1-18 ESV /
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. ...

Revelation 12:4 ESV /
His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.

Revelation 5:9 ESV /
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,

1 John 5:13 ESV /
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:7 ESV /
For there are three that testify:

1 John 4:3 ESV /
And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

2 Peter 1:21 ESV / 3
For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 3:18 ESV /
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

1 Peter 1:25 ESV /
But the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.

Hebrews 13:8 ESV /
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Hebrews 10:12 ESV /
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

2 Timothy 4:2-4 ESV / 3
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Timothy 3:1-17 ESV /
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. ...

2 Timothy 2:15 ESV /
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:2 ESV /
And what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV /3
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV /
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:8 ESV / 3
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 1:13 ESV /
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Galatians 2:4 ESV /
Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—

2 Corinthians 11:13 ESV /
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:1-33 ESV
I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. ...

2 Corinthians 10:5 ESV
We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

2 Corinthians 6:17 ESV /
Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,

1 Corinthians 15:47 ESV
The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

1 Corinthians 14:33 ESV
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

1 Corinthians 14:1-40 ESV
Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. ...

1 Corinthians 11:3 ESV
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 6:20 ESV /
For you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Romans 16:17 ESV /
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Romans 8:1 ESV /
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:23 ESV /

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:9 ESV /

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.

Romans 4:1-25 ESV /
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, ...

Acts 2:38 ESV /
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:1-47 ESV /
When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. ...

John 14:26 ESV /
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 4:24 ESV /
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Matthew 24:1-51 ESV / Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. ...

Matthew 23:13-15 ESV /
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

Matthew 13:41-42 ESV /
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:1-58 ESV /
That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea. And great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat down. And the whole crowd stood on the beach. And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, ...

Matthew 7:23 ESV /
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matthew 7:22 ESV /
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

Matthew 5:28 ESV /
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matthew 5:17-18 ESV /
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Malachi 3:6 ESV /

“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

Ezekiel 44:1-31 ESV /
Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east. And it was shut. And the Lord said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut. Only the prince may sit in it to eat bread before the Lord. He shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.” Then he brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple, and I looked, and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple of the Lord. And I fell on my face. And the Lord said to me, “Son of man, mark well, see with your eyes, and hear with your ears all that I shall tell you concerning all the statutes of the temple of the Lord and all its laws. And mark well the entrance to the temple and all the exits from the sanctuary. ...

Isaiah 28:1-29 ESV /
Ah, the proud crown of the drunkards of Ephraim, and the fading flower of its glorious beauty, which is on the head of the rich valley of those overcome with wine! Behold, the Lord has one who is mighty and strong; like a storm of hail, a destroying tempest, like a storm of mighty, overflowing waters, he casts down to the earth with his hand. The proud crown of the drunkards of Ephraim will be trodden underfoot; and the fading flower of its glorious beauty, which is on the head of the rich valley, will be like a first-ripe fig before the summer: when someone sees it, he swallows it as soon as it is in his hand. In that day the Lord of hosts will be a crown of glory, and a diadem of beauty, to the remnant of his people, ...

Isaiah 9:6 ESV /
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 1:1-31 ESV /

The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master's crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged. Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. ...

Psalm 119:105 ESV /
Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.

Genesis 3:4 ESV /
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
Genesis 3:1-24 ESV /
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” ...

westsideblues1 westsideblues1 41-45, F 53 Responses Dec 15, 2012

Your Response


You realise of course that this is all nonsense?
There is no god...please tell me you are joking!

you all haven't tried to get this person banned excommunicated hahha I meant banned from your .. can't you block him ? Let him go to the trouble of getting another EP username.. and block him and report him too..

after goin to gypsy I have to ask.. you stalking me? lol jk jk seem to like my comments

na just giving you A rate up

:) rape away


ill rate you but i wont rape you : )


2 More Responses

777 here is where I saw it first, then found the video. And in the video he is showing the ad the Mormon church ran.

To teach them their testimony.

You don't develop a testimony, develop a testimony before they are saved?

No, it was an article in a magazine about the glove. You probably need to get the book.

You made comment to me, which you had to unblock me to do, so youstarted it back up. You said it was an activity, it is an article about it. The book comes with the glove and pictures.

You have the magazine, but you said early you had not heard of the glove.

hebrew what is your point? for baiting her.. what are you trying to prove out side of U being a bully.

My testimony developed years before I realized Jesus was the answer to all the questions about Me, my Life, why are we here, and the emptiness I felt inside my testimony stems from being a verbally, physically, and sexually abused child...the tumultuous teenage years w/o an identity...having no focus or direction in life...and when it all came crashing down on me....Jesus lifted me up, dusted me off, and brought me to Himself....

What I don't understand is what are hebrew132 and 777heaven actually arguing about??? It appears to me they are both immature Christians trying to make sure what they've learned on their own about Jesus isn't upstaged by the other...

So what that there were and still are false Christians, or anti-Christ in the world...Jesus says not to engage in such trivial matters to begin with...

It's easy to lose focus trying to prove a point...when the point is the tip of Jesus' two edged sword, (The Word), cutting deep into our hearts revealing all truth.....He is the Life, the Truth, and the Way....If He's not in you, then you're just in the way of other Christians trying to find peace...

Don't become a stumbling block to baby Christians learning for the first time the true peace and love Jesus offers each of us....why the drama? Anyone using scripture to argue their point doesn't understand the real reason we have the Bible to begin's not a tool for us to cut others down, by showing our superiority in Bible knowledge or ability to translate the Bible....when we all know, as mature Christians, all knowledge and revelation comes from God's He that reveals what we can handle, it's He that saves us and keeps can being an authority on any subject to the point of putting others down have any positive outcome???....

Just sayn in love my Brothers and Sisters....

3 More Responses

@iname They don't play well with others is already obvious. However this is not a game.

1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.

...I want to tell you about the fukkking arsehole stalking me in another group,
apparently his ex left him high and dry because he was a pathetic miserable soul,
who couldn't figure out his own life,
who couldn't clean up his life,
and refused to improve himself,
being a hardcore drug addict,
and self-loathing self-pitying case always stuck in a rut as if the world owes him something,
and because my star sign is the same as his ex wife who didn't want to put up with his self-DESTSTRUCTIVE ways thinking it makes him look cute and more lovable,
he saw me as his ex that deserves to be punished because SHE REFUSED TO LOVE HIM BEING SUCH A SORRY PIECE OF ARSE...
sounds like that guy you talking of no?

... I THINK THIS DOUCHE BAG IS USING HIS PAIN AND BITTERNESS OF PAST RELATIONSHIPS AS AN EXCUSE TO HATE ON PEOPLE WHO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS BUSINESS IN THE FIRST PLACE............. i mean i don't have anything to do with his failed marriage FFS, i wasn't even born yet when they got married.

...and I LIVE HALF WAY ACROSS THE WORLD FROM THIS GUY AND HIS EX........... he is just seeking any excuse whatsoever to vent his PAIN even confusing people for the wrong individuals.

...IS THAT FAIR? HE SHOULD WORK OUT HIS OWN ISSUES before blaming it on other people who weren't even involved in it.............

...thus the same with this guy that you wrote about, he cannot just HATE ALL WOMEN BECAUSE HE HAD SOME BAD EXPERIENCE with only a few or just one.............. then he must be irrevocably gay.....................

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<p>the punnish guy i mentioned is now snowlover13 he piggyed back onto YOUHAVEMY PERMISSIO guy........</p><p>sn13 does that, he goes into a story with his latest bro, and then hates on females ..... </p><p>iv seen where he stops piggy backing with them(wears out his welcome) then he is off to another member who he thinks hates on females... he uses them as a front to hate,</p><p>
not once have i seen him raise any concern for mens rights. he is here to gang up on women, to hate on them, and threaten to kill them,play victim</p> he don't want men's rights? he just wants a right to hate women? lol would labeling himself a hater make him get more men's rights? when he makes himself unworthy of respect like that?

...he reminds me of some guy a while back who would hate on everyone who did not think he was GOD INCARNATE......... he said he was PURE LOVE INCARNATE, but HATED EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO BELIEVE HIM, hunting them down and gang stalking them with his group of filthy ******........

yea i think i remeber that guy... i for get his name .....but he had some holier than thee type of name.

...he thought he farted sunrays....of gold lmfao

... I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW who he thinks would steal his arse to become some millionaire when all he can truly produce down there is shiiiit.


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OMFG you are going to kill him with the word, hahaha

all I can say is, that I have the same type of troll in some other group,
he is a middle aged man extremely unhappy with himself,
bickering like a child wanting me to feel just as bad as he does,
by continuously belittling me...

it is just sad to see grown men acting like three year olds,
screaming for love and attention by driving people away with their hate,
so much for be a peace loving new ager,
when driving a "wedge" between people because of their self-loathing bullshitttery...........

yep snow has said at least twice he wants to shoot me and my friends... he too is a very unhappy soul....... hates him self and hates his life.....takes it out on women.. he joined e/p just to hate on females .........

snow even claims to be a christain.but yet wants to kill females

screaming for love and attention by driving people away with their hate

gypsy....&gt;good anology

...okay so he is gay since male chauvinists are all extremely loyal to their own sex...... and what does the bible say about homos? they should be put to death and burned like witches....hahahahaha

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Where did I misinterpert your words?

Still won't answer the questions.

I have no need to lie about who I work with and you do not know what he has shown or shared with me.

Either the endowments and secert handshakes are so or they are not. Which is it? Tell us what goes on in the temple ifit is not a secret.

Ask a missionary, why should I ask a missionary, can't you as a member of the Mormon church tell me what you practice? we are all missionaries.

Tells us what is the square? Tell us about the similarities to the Freemasons.

You deny these things are not a part of your rital?

What is the sign of the nail?

Or how about the patriarchal grip, or sure sign of the nail?

Care to enlighten us as to wherein the OT the preist or anyone elsewas told to do such things?

You harpon the seeking wisdom and the truth, well I'm asking, because that stuff is just not located anywhere in Gen to Rev that I can find. So please show where it is.

You are the one causing the drama because you simply want answer any questions. You say we have not understood or misinterpt it, so please again we ask for you to enlighten us. Most are simple yes or no answers. Either the endowments are about ritual and new names and secret handshakes and signs or they are not. That website does not tell what happens in the temple. Nothing is mentioned about your twist on the creation story, new names, signs of the Freemasons or secret handshakes.

So why can't you tell us? Why go to a website when there is access to an actual member?

So why don't you set the record straight and tell us what happens during the endowment ritual, what happens in the temple?

And if the temple is not restricted, then why can't anybody go into the temple at anytime? If they can't, that sounds like a restiction to me.

@Dente just pointing out blocking really won't prevent someone from replying.

EP doesn't appear to interact very much at all.

I hate religious strife.

... religious strife? when people battle in the name of GOD, it is not about GOD but about them............ narcissistic self-hating egotists, it is a mystery how they can hate and love themselves all at the same time... whether they hate themselves, then everyone must see and watch how they suffer, whether they love themselves, then everyone must see how wonderful they are, cheer and cry with them, I MEAN WTF? what happened to GOD? AREN't they going off topic when they forget about the divine purpose and go on yakking about themselves all day and their needs, and how they want people to act and behave thinking they are the queens and kings having the power to tell people how to behave or else...pffft. I am making a new years motto: stay out of immature EP BATTLES this year, it brings you nowhere, and only waste your time and brains.

good points

yes i too get caught up in all the drama........ odd how when a story line is going well and they walk in and with thier drama....

You don't argue, as you never answer any questions. Oh so now you are calling your church practices stupid? Finally!

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Wow, I don't like to argue this much.

...yeah I have learned by trial and error, it is a waste, i mean what does the zealots really want to prove? and yes we get the point that the guy is a fukkking hypocrite, just leave it at that, I have written many such stories why I think people are hypocrites, but for what? they are what they are, why waste more energy on them than necessary? are they really worth it? since they don't want to learn from their own mistakes in anyway, so why should we care at all?

gypsyblu i am sorry for the way i have acted on your story. just these two neanderthals get on my last f-in nerve

no need to be sorry ... ur welcome to post on my stories any time ((((hugs)))


SERIOUSLY when will people grow up on EP, i cannot understand why trolls don't know where to stop.......... especially those in their 40s and up, they are tired of life, and take out their frustrations on others who don't deserve it, I MEAN come on WTF? Why act immature when you want to pass yourself off as a mature wise person? fail!!!!!

...and it is funny because they say they are the ones seeing all the MAGIC, WONDERS AND PURPOSE IN LIFE TOO, but clearly they don't when they are soooo extremely unhappy with themselves that they just have to take it out on others..... FRAUD ALERT. religious and spiritual zealots, should really know where to stop when they don't act according to what they preach any more, seriously, don't they realize that they are making themselves look stupid pulling the best stunts of absolute hypocrisy?

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Iname quote"uh yea it does douche bag if i block u and they block u u CANT comment on their story"

Nope it don't as we can start a new story and comment on it.

...people who are desperate to be heard by the one that blocked them continue to stalk them on other people's posts.... I mean do you really think that person wants to hear anything you have to say when the block says "we don't give a rat's arse about what you have to say", I mean do you really want to be loved by that person soooo bad, do you really want to be seen by that person sooo bad that you would make a complete and utter arse out of yourself doing so? flaunting yourself and attention whoooring before poeple who think you are good for nothing in anyway? seriously, trolls and their intelligence mixed with their low self-esteem and need for acknowledgement really amazes me.... especially when they demand to be loved by others while they Hate them.

People who don't want to hear the truth from God usually run from it, so they think blocking will stop the truth. Maybe that is what you and others are seeking love from strangers they have never met, nor probably ever will. If so you are looking for love in the wrong place. I am not seeking love from anyone here, I have all I need in my personal relationships. Personal relationships I have had longer than you have been living.

one guy here lav25 made another profile to hate on females, after he was blocked from everyone.........

he called me pathetic duh !!??? he is the one who is soooooooooooo PATHETIC.... .

he made a second profile just to hate me with that is pathetic...

instead of argueing with these two douches bag maxine and his bf why not block them

i am not male. Blocking doesn't stop anyone from replying.

uh yea it does douche bag if i block u and they block u u CANT comment on their story

Hebum blocking does mean interaction between you and the person who blocked you is not allowed if you continue to harass people who have blocked you ep admin can and will ban you.


In what ways did Christ express tolerance for all the different religions of his day?

Im not going to listen to you anymore, you are nothing but an athiest.

To the contrary, it is I who want to listen to you. Care to answer my simple question darling? :)


Ok so you practice a religion fabricated by ancient people. What's your point?

This isn't how you plan on "holding your own", is it? I mean the silent treatment is soooo passé, lol :)

RE: Jehovah's Witnesses

In spite of their imperfections they faithfully practice the religion Jesus practiced. He only worshiped Jehovah God, the only true God, and instructed all his disciples to do the same for it is the only true religion established by God:

“In reply Jesus said to [Satan]: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”” - Luke 4:8

“Jehovah your God you should fear, and him you should serve.” - Deuteronomy 6:13

Jesus taught, “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’” - Matthew 22:37

“[Y]ou must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force.” - Deuteronomy 6:5

she wants ur thoughts not what you copied pasted .same goes for me ..

Asked and answered. If you're looking for a different answer ask a different question :)

OK here is a different question: Can you state your beliefs without copying and pasting?

I don't worship Jehovah God on my terms but on His. As such, I do my utmost to obey Him in everything as He has instructed in the Bible. This is why I always use Scripture to answers queries on my beliefs.

With all due respect and kindness I just have to ask, is English your second language?



That explains it! Thanks for clearing that up for me :)

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<p>&nbsp;<p>You act as if these very same "pious" have changed their ways. Do we live in a good and decent world? Here's a better question, if we in fact live in a good and decent world why did Jesus say his God was going to annihilate this system of things just as occurred during Noah's day?<br />
<br />
</p><p>gypsy...> maxxann stick to the point jane is making.. duh!!!! once again ur putting a spin on the conversation, you will say anything to prove a point, be it right or worng, </p><p>you go off on wordy tangents that lose the point the direction of conversation.</p><p></p>

<p>&nbsp;<p>If you don't read my replies why should I read anything you post?</p><p>gypsy....> mazzann you assume i dont ......... its jsut a nother spin of yours, trying to get out of answering the question ...dont you know i can see ur game dude??/</p><p></p>

He keeps going around with the same game.


mazzann i would like to get your spin on atheism if you dont mind.

Here’s why the fundamentally nihilistic materialist, naturalistic, agnostic, atheistic view of the world is wholly illogical, irrational and unenlightened:

(1) Everything that exists has an objective explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of its own nature or in an external cause.
(A) If atheism is true, the universe has no objective explanation of its existence.
(B) If the universe has an objective explanation of its existence then atheism is false.

(2) The universe exists.
(3) The space-time universe does not exist out of the necessity of it’s own nature for it did not exist until 13.70 billion years ago.
(4) Therefore, the space-time universe exists because of an external cause.

(5) The external cause of the universe must necessarily be a transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent and personal being.
(6) A transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent and personal being is the definition of God.
(7) Therefore, the objective explanation of the universe's existence is God.

(8) Therefore, atheism is false.

You have copy and pasted this all around EP, what is YOUR response without copying and pasting?

Can I help it if I keep getting asked the same question over and over and over again? :)

Maxi -

As to claim number one, your absolutely obtuse or being completely blind there exist counter arguments and positions which believe there are no objective moral truths, because ethical knowledge is usually subjective or relative which means they cannot be consider objective. Such as non-cognitivism and emotivism.

" (A) If atheism is true, the universe has no objective explanation of its existence. "

Again lies .... See Buddhism and especially Jainists. Then read up on Confucian &amp; Taoist Religion.

Then laugh at your claim like I did !

"(B) If the universe has an objective explanation of its existence then atheism is false."

Since you were wrong about number 1 your obviously wrong at claim B.

Let me point out for you

The Sanskrit word nirisvaravada translates at atheism and means disbelief in a creator god. It does not require disbelief in anything else that might be a "god," but for many anything less than a creator isn't a genuine god in the first place. Both the Samkhya and the Mimamsa schools of Hindu philosophy reject the existence of a creator god, making them explicitly atheistic from a Hindu perspective. 

This doesn't make them naturalistic, but it does make them as atheistic as any belief system, philosophy, or religion from the perspective of religious theists in the West.

For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any "higher" spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god. None of this means that no spiritual beings exist which might be called "gods," however, and thus a Jain might believe in beings which might be considered gods and therefore technically be a theist. From a Western religious perspective, though, they'd all be atheists.

On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Christianity and Islam are. Neither promote the existence of such a god, either. 

(3) The space-time universe does not exist out of the necessity of it’s own nature for it did not exist until 13.70 billion years ago.

How cute the whole "God created the universe but how did God become existent" and your answer is analogous to " A married man is not a bachelor, therefore he was never a bachelor."

I'm sure you've heard of science please see the following for why you are not correct

Which is how we get

Objectively of course instead of subjectively like your God theory.

The debate is actually if time actually exists In the 17th century, English scientist Isaac Newton was pretty sure time existed as a universal constant. But in 1908, Hermann Minkowski, expanding on one of Einstein’s ideas on the relationship between space and time, suggested a space-time continuum. This theory held that space and time were inextricably mixed, with all events occurring along the same timeline. Einstein presented his theory of general relativity not long after this and proposed that time is but an illusion.Around the same time (if you believe in time, that is), the field of quantum mechanics grew out of an effort to explain the relationship between matter and energy. This presented a little problem for scientists trying to create a single, unified theory to account for the universe and its component parts. Quantum mechanics requires the existence of time to work. General relativity does not.

" (5) The external cause of the universe must necessarily be a transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent and personal being."

Please provide objective evidence of this claim failure to do so makes it a fictional belief not a truth.

(6) A transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent and personal being is the definition of God.

This is false please don't be so blind as to the multiple religions which define "god" quite differently. Your first world western view isn't objective when you define God or Gods only in a Judeao-christian manner ...infact it's rather obtuse and bigoted.

" 7) Therefore, the objective explanation of the universe's existence is God"

Sorry friend your so far off course by now your everything but objective.

Lastly your number 8 is a complete fail.

@ maxi Now please explain this

1) In hundreds of passages, the Bible declares or takes the position explicitly or implicitly that it is nothing less than the very Word of God. Some thirty-eight hundred times the Bible declares, “God said,” or “Thus says the Lord” (e.g. Ex. 14:1; 20:1; Lev. 4:1; Num. 4:1; Deut. 4:2; 32:48; Isa. 1:10, 24; Jer. 1:11; Ezek. 1:3; etc.).

A) Paul also recognized that the things he was writing were the Lord’s commandments (1 Cor. 14:37), and they were acknowledged as such by the believers (1 Thess. 2:13).

B) Peter proclaimed the certainty of the Scriptures and the necessity of heeding the unalterable and certain Word of God (2 Pet. 1:16-21).

C) John too recognized that his teaching was from God; to reject his teaching was to reject God (1 John 4:6).17

D)For other passages which either declare or assume the Bible as God’s Word see Deuteronomy 6:6-9, 17-18; Joshua 1:8-9; 8:32-35; 2 Samuel 22:31; Ps. 1:2; 12:6; 19:7-11; 93:5; 119:9, 11, 18, 89-93, 130; Prov. 30:5-6;Matthew 5:17-19; 22:29; Mark 13:31; Luke 16:17; John 2:22; 5:24; 10:35; Acts 17:11; Romans 10:17; Colossians 3:16; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Timothy 2:15; 3:15-17; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 2 Peter 3:15-16; Revelation 1:2; 22:18.

2) The Bible’s revelation of God. The Bible’s revelation of God is unique among all the religious writings of either antiquity or of more modern times. While the Bible is a very ethical book, it never divorces its code of morality from a personal relationship with the God of the Bible, teaching that God’s laws are not meant to hinder joy. Morality is to be a product of knowing and loving the God of the Bible (Deut. 4:4-6; Matt. 22:36-40; Mark 12:28-31).

3) Therefore true Christian belief Dictates the bible is the word of god and
a)that God's words are unalterable and certain.
b) That true Christians must have belief in the God of the bible.
c) It is immoral for true Christians to believe anything different.

4) J. The Bible: Actually the Bible serves as the most inclusive of all the avenues of special revelation, for it encompasses the record of many aspects of the other avenues. Though God undoubtedly gave other visions, dreams, and prophetic messages that were not recorded in the Bible, we know no details of them. Too, all that we know about the life of Christ appears in the Bible, though, of course, not all that He did or said was recorded in the Scriptures (John 21:25). But the Bible is not simply the record of these other revelations from God; it also contains additional truth not revealed, for example, through the prophets or even during the earthly life of Christ. So the Bible, then, is both the record of aspects of special revelation and revelation itself.

6)The revelation in the Bible is not only inclusive yet partial, it is also accurate (John 17:17), progressive (Heb. 1:1), and purposeful (2 Tim. 3:15-17).

7) True Christians must believe in creationism ie. believe in a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation account,
A) and conclude that the universe was created 6,000 years ago.
ii) This age is determined by counting the generations of biblical figures recorded throughout the Bible, starting with Adam in the Garden of Eden.
iii) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” (Gen. 1:1- 2)

B) and true Christians believe that any evidence not supporting their theory is incorrectly applied, or that the data is misinterpreted.

C) Their view is that the Bible is the only source that should be examined to prove creation, and the events recorded in it should be taken as they interpret them. ( Notice Romans chapter 1: “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead” vs. 20).

D) Yet, This is exactly what God said He did NOT create! He “is not the author of confusion” (I Cor. 14:33)—rather, everything God does is “done decently and in order” (vs. 40).

F) why your intelligent design/ certain creationism (which is required belief of true Christians) is utterly proven wrong :

a)Let’s look at one scientific proof supporting all we have covered.
i) The speed of light is one of the more constant variables in the universe, with a speed of approximately 186,000 miles per second. This means that if you were 186,000 miles away from a person who turned on a bright light, it would take one second before that light reached you.

No doubt, you have probably experienced this “delay” with sound.) Since light travels faster than sound, if a person on an opposite side of a football field clashed cymbals, you would see the action before the sound reached your ears.The only difference is that light travels so fast that enormous distances are required for a “delay” to be realized.

ii ) The only place with enough space to demonstrate this effect is outer space. Because of the vast size of the cosmos, distances are often measured in light-years, the distance light can travel in one year.

B)What does this have to do with the age of our universe?

i) If Earth and the universe were only 6,000 years old, we would only be able to see stars with a maximum distance of 6,000 light-years, otherwise the light would not have had time to reach us.

C) Let’s put this in context. The Milky Way galaxy is approximately 100,000 light-years across, with our solar system about 28,000 light-years from the center. This puts us about 22,000 light-years from our galaxy’s outer edge.

i) If the universe were only 6,000 years old, we would see only a fraction of the 200 billion stars in just OUR galaxy since light from others would not have had enough time to reach us!

D)Of course, you have seen countless pictures of stars near Earth.

i) There are amazing images of some of the estimated 125 billion galaxies.

ii) Of these, 3,000 are visible and can be anywhere from 80,000 to billions of light-years away.

iii) Light from the most distant galaxies had to have traveled for billions of years before it reached Earth.

E) Of course, for light to travel billions of years there had to have been a universe for billions of years!

8) this clearly shows that God is wrong in his accounts of time from Adam to Moses to Jesus and therefore infallible or The bible is wrong and not the word of God which to true Christians is impossible.

Literally God refutes himself as does the necessary required intelligent design/ creationism.

How is this possible ? Once again we turn science, specifically Occam's razor ...

You've probably heard it before: The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Doctors ­use it to determine the illness behind a set of symptoms.This line of reasoning is called Occam's razor.

It's used in a wide variety of ways throughout the world as a means to slice through a problem or situation and eliminate unnecessary elements. But what we call the razor is a little different than what its author originally wrote.

There are two parts that are considered the basis of Occam's razor, and they were originally written in Latin:

1)The Principle of Plurality - Plurality should not be posited without necessity

2)The Principle of Parsimony - It is pointless to do with more what is done with less

Taken together, they represent the basis of humanity's investigation into the universe, and the way we see our environment is largely based upon Occam's razor. There's no telling what kind of world we would live in today without Occam's razor. Would we have the Internet? Would we have inoculations?

Consider simple systems in nature, like viruses and plants, and their ability to carry out complex tasks such as infection andphotosynthesis. We value these simple models. And when it comes to man-made systems, we tend to base structures upon what we already know works -

the simplest explanation to us -- like computer memory modeled on our own brain processes. All of which points to the principles of plurality and parsimony.

However, one of the key things that Occam's razor reveals is the subjectivity with which we view the universe. Sure the sky is blue, we know that by looking at it, but what shade of blue is it exactly? Anyone who has ever engaged in a debate over whether a dark-colored sock is black or navy can appreciate the bias of our worldview and how it affects our decisions.

Simply enough this leads to why and how you went wrong ...

And finally shows Your notion of God as Creator doesn't fit into occams razor or objectivity at all.

^^^^^HIGH FIVE DANTE^^^^^^

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It was so-called “Christian” Nazis who committed some of the most unspeakable atrocities in human history.

gypsy.. i have never heard of nazis being called christians, as matter of fact you are the first one i ever heard of any one calling them "CHRISTIAN"

The overwhelming majority of Nazis in WWII Germany proclaimed some flavor of so-called Christianity. Hitler himself was baptized Catholic, never converted to another religion and was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church. He was Catholic till the day he died.

The Allies too professed some version of Christianity. So if their claims were true, they were essentially slaughtering their Axis brothers on the other side of the Atlantic.

Yeah, I can imagine Jesus smiling from on high as he contemplated his fans butchering one another ...

maxxann... Christians” are the cause of much of the needless pain and suffering in this world while.

gypsy.... really ? where are your sources>?

It was so-called “Christian” Nazis who committed some of the most unspeakable atrocities in human history.

So-called “Christian” Americans massacred hundreds of thousands of innocent, non-combatant children, women and men in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

So-called “Christian” Rwandans raged with blood-lust and slaughtered one another in one of the bloodiest, most gruesome civil-wars in modern history.

So-Called "Christians" on both sides - Axis and Allied - slaughtered each other during World War I and World War II with their respective bishops and priests blessing them on both sides of the blood bath.

Even today, look at what so-called 'Christians' in Bulgaria are doing -

Need I continue?

Lets leave the past in the past and focus on learning from our mistakes.
Need I remind you that every religion has members who have committed atrocities ... 9/11 ring a bell? How about the ongoing conflict between Palestine and Israel?

Countless Priests and Nuns hid and saved 1000 of Jews. Oskar Schindler operated a " concentration camp" and saved countless numbers of Jews. There were dozens of ordinary Christians who like Miep ( who harboured Anne Frank and family) harboured and hid Jews, saving lives while risking their own.

I prefer to focus on the good Max, most people are good and decent.

You act as if these very same "pious" have changed their ways. Do we live in a good and decent world? Here's a better question, if we in fact live in a good and decent world why did Jesus say his God was going to annihilate this system of things just as occurred during Noah's day?

@gypsy and gumshoejane
exactly! Those are what we describe as radicals, radicals are dangerous because its no longer about religion, its their own hate covered up BY religion not necessairly the religion itself.

lol, silly girl. Go back and review your history. The Catholic Church alone has a long and bloody history that was the direct result of their "Christian" policies. For instance, The Catholic Church's open support of Hitler - and the support of other so-called "Christian" religions like the LDS - proved instrumental to his rise to power and the massacre of millions of innocents.

The world would be better off without all these so-called "Christian" religions.


What good does this accomplish? I prefer to see people as individuals, not as groups. The vast majority of people of all religions and of every belief are good and decent. There are far more good than bad in the world. please see my story on the Sandyhook massacre for a look at how wonderful and loving some people are, I do believe that most of us are capable of heroism under the right circumstances.

she is not a silly girl.. if she was, she would not be able to hold her own, as she has demonstrated

silly boy! Didn't you just get done persecuting me for believing in Santa Muerte AND God? Its curious you say your a Christian but persecute not only me but other followers of Jesus as well on here. I haven't been able to detect it but you sir are an athiest, its the only way to describe the way you change your mind every minute. Plus of every religion out there, there are radical beliefs that doesn't make religion in itself is bad.


If we in fact live in a good and decent world why did Jesus say his God was going to annihilate this system of things just as during Noah's day?


I have no issue with you worshiping Santa Muerte and Darkseid or Crom or whoever it is you call your "God". Like I've said, if so many others can cook up their own religions there's no reason why you can't do the same :)

You say that now but your tone says otherwise. I don't believe you changed your mind just like that. And its not "made up" lol billions of years of religions would say otherwise (example: Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, Native Americans, etc etc and now Mexicans were as the Goddess of Death has been around long before the media dubbed her Santa Muerte aka The Day of the Dead) have been believing in the God of Death or Goddess of Death for a LONG LONG LONG time. Burial rites and rituals have been going LONG before Christianity, Christianity came along and said "I am the only true God, you MUST bow before me because I am the ALMIGHTY." BUT BUT and I say this with all my heart this is where Christians are wrong they make God (JESUS CHRIST) look like the ultimate BIGOT in WHICH HE IS NOT! To die means to go to God, you get judged and then you go somewhere in which only God knows, because only HE can judge, it is perfectly sensible to think death and God go together. Until then everything is a path in which YOU choose to go down, I can have morals and be a good person but not believe in only ONE God. For instance I know that bullying is wrong, I know to self defend myself only if need be, I know to be kind to animals because they were here first, I know to feed the hungry as I once was hungry and homeless, I know to right my wrong and I don't need any bible to tell me to love thy neighbor as all people are my sisters and brothers. Jesus Christ gave me this free will with love and sacrifice and honor, he is NOT the bigot you speak ill of.

So when Jesus said that Satan was the Father of the Scribes and Pharisees - whom practiced different religions than him - was he expressing tolerance for their beliefs? (John 8:42-47)

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Finally! A worthy response.

First, when have I ever claim "everything must have a cause"? Could this be yet another strawman?

Second, the premise that the universe began to exist is not a religious statement nor a theological one. You can find this statement in any contemporary textbook on astrophysics or cosmology. And it is supported by the vast majority of cosmologists today.

The Borde-Vilenkin-Guth Theorem, for instance, clearly states that any universe, which has, on average, a rate of expansion greater one must have a ** finite beginning **. I'm not making this up. Read the paper in full or watch Vilenkin himself refute beginningless universe models like Eternal Inflation, Cyclic Evolution and Static Seed/Emergent Universe on youtube while proving that our universe had to have a finite beginning.

As such, Vilenkin had this to say regarding the beginning of the universe, "It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. *** There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning ***. (Many Worlds in One [New York: Hill and Wang, 2006], p.176)

Moreover, Quentin Smith, a philosopher of science at the University of Western Michigan reinforces this further when he states, "It belongs analytically to the concept of the cosmological singularity that it is not the effect of prior physical events. The definition of a singularity entails that it is impossible to extend the spacetime manifold beyond the singularity. This effectively rules out the idea that the singularity is the effect of some prior natural process." ("Theism, Atheism, and Big Bang Cosmology")

As such, your fervent belief that the universe is infinitely old, beginningless, or eternal has no basis in any respected mainstream scientific theories of the universe. It's just more atheistic folderol and wishful thinking.

This creates the necessity for there to exist a first uncaused-cause for something cannot come from nothing as I've already shared. I've also explained that this first uncaused efficient cause must also, by necessity, be transcendent, beginningless, timeless, spaceless, immaterial, unchanging, omnipotent and personal. As it turns out, such is the very definition of God.

You see? Every arguement has a counter arguement and I just copy and pasted that for no reason! :D

OK so you copy and paste nearly everything off the internet, YOU said:

"How very pantheistic of you. Here's why, though, your definition defies logic and reason:

(1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
(2) The space-time universe began to exist 13.70 billion years ago.
(3) Therefore, the space-time universe has a cause.

(4) The cause of the universe is a transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent and personal being.
(5) A transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent and personal being is the definition of God.
(6) Therefore, God caused the universe to exist 13.70 billion years ago."

For every arguement you have there is something that also counter acts this, now these don't fit my views at all as I believe in God but I thought I would get on the copy and paste wagon:

The Universe Could Not Have Been Created by God
Logic Versus Supposition

1.Everything Must Have a Cause (Except One Thing)
2.The Complexity of God and the Simplicity of the Natural Laws
3.The Existence of God is Not Enough to Explain the Universe
4.God Doesn't Need a Cause Because It Has Existed Forever
5.The Nature of God's Thoughts1.Logic Must Predate the First Cause
2.Saying God is 'Outside' Logic



1. Everything Must Have a Cause (Except One Thing)

People who believe in god (theists) subscribe to the theistic idea that the Universe was the work of a creator-god. They say that 'god did it', and although many books have been written about the details, there are fundamental problems with the whole idea that a god created the Universe.

They say that all things must have a cause, and therefore, god exists as the 'first cause' of everything else. These people ask questions like "Who do you think created you?" and "Do you think the Universe came out of nothing... who do you think created it?". These types of questions both rely on the "everything must have a cause, therefore God exists" argument. But this argument doesn't work. Examine these points:
If god-believers say that 'everything must have a cause' and state that this means that god exists, then, they have missed a part of their declaration out. Their true belief is that "everything must have a cause, apart from God". The term for God as the cause of everything is the 'first cause', so, this is the same as saying "everything must have a cause, apart from the first cause".

God isn't a simple thing; it has thoughts, motivations (to create, to love, etc), it has powers, imagination and its thoughts are themselves ordered logically and coherently so that it can plan things and think about things in a sensible way. In short, God is quite a complicated being.

These two facts combined to produce the more accurate first-cause argument:
3.Theists believe that everything must have a cause, apart from the complicated self-created first-cause that has a coherent internal logic.

“All causal explanations must have an arbitrary beginning”

"History of Western Philosophy" by Bertrand Russell (1946)2

“The argument that there must exist a first cause of everything is open to serious doubt as long as we adhere to any simple notion of cause, irrespective of whether the universe is infinitely old, or had a definite beginning in time.”

"God And The New Physics" by Paul Davies (1984)3

This means that the "everything must have a cause" part of the argument must be wrong. It is not true that everything must have a cause. In a causal world, there must always be something that has no cause. There is a different word for the belief that a complicated self-created first-cause that has a coherent internal logic requires no first cause: atheism. Because if such a complicated thing can exist without a cause, then that first-cause could well be an atheistic Universe, complete with a few internal physical laws. If you argue that everything has a cause except for god, then, you might as well argue that everything has a cause except the universe, and admit that there is no need to theorize that God exists. So if you accept the first-cause argument then it does not prove that God exists, but instead it proves that the Universe could be without a creator at all.

2. The Complexity of God and the Simplicity of the Natural Laws

Some philosophers have even realized that God is more complicated than an uncaused Big Bang. When it comes to comparing arguments where there is no hope of actually getting any physical evidence, there is a long-standing heuristic to help distinguish between theories, called Occam's Razor: it turns out that when all evidence is accounted for, the simpler of any two theories is more likely to be the correct one. The theory with fewest assumptions is more likely to be true. God requires many properties and complexities such as consciousness, thought, personality, creative drive, love, an internal logic ordering its thoughts so that it can think coherently and rationally, etc: All of these properties must have been derived from somewhere. It turns out that God is a vastly more complicated thing that the Big Bang and the fundamental laws of the Universe.

“The scientist, however, may wish to challenge the assumption that an infinite mind (God) is simpler than the universe. In our experience, mind only exists in physical systems that are above a certain threshold of complexity [...] While it is possible to imagine a disembodied mind, there must be some means of expression of the pattern, and the pattern itself is complex. So it could be argued that an infinite mind is infinitely complex and hence far less likely than a universe. [...]

According to our best scientific understanding of the primeval universe it does indeed seem as though the universe began in the simplest state of all - thermodynamic equilibrium - and that the currently-observed complex structures and elaborate activity only appeared subsequently. It might then be argued that the primeval universe is, in fact, the simplest thing that we can imagine.”

"God And The New Physics" by Paul Davies (1984)4

There are fewer unanswered questions if we discard the complexities of a creator-god, and admit that atheism is more likely. If "everything must have a cause except for the first cause" then that first cause is much more likely to be an atheistic universe with its few basic laws, than a more-complicated creator-god.

3. The Existence of God is Not Enough to Explain the Universe

It is not enough to say that "God exists" as the explanation as to why the Universe exists. If a God created the Universe, then, why did it do so? God must have had thoughts - a creative impulse - to create the space-time continuum. Therefore it is the properties and thoughts of God that explain the Universe, not the mere fact that God exists. God could easily exist for all of its eternity, existing in perfection in a perfect world, without creating the Universe. So saying that God explains the existence of the Universe is not the whole story.

“If God has a plan for the universe, which is implemented as part of his will, why does he not simply create a deterministic universe in which the goal of the plan is inevitable? Or better still create it with the plan achieved?”

"God And The New Physics" by Paul Davies (1984)5

Unfortunately there have been no comprehensive or compelling arguments as to why God created the Universe. This is a problem that effects not only monotheistic religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but also other religions such as Buddhism: Sages from all these religions have tried to explained why existence is the way it is, complete with suffering and death, but none have given a straight answer as to why any of it needed to exist at all.

4. God Doesn't Need a Cause Because It Has Existed Forever

Some theists argue that God is eternal and was therefore never created. But I find this is an argument that can be used in conjunction with Big Bang theory to prove, again, that god is not likely to exist as a first cause. According to some Big Bang theories there has been an infinite number of cycles of Big Bang / Big Crunch (where the Universe ends in a big black hole after contracting, before exploding again) and that the Universe has existed forever. If it is possible for something to exist forever and not need a cause then it is likely to be the Universe, not God, and once again we can theorize that this is likely to be true because there would be no reason for god if it was true that something could exist with no cause.

5. The Nature of God's Thoughts

5.1. Logic Must Predate the First Cause

In order to create, to think, God's thoughts must be more than random. To create the universe and time, God must be able to think logically. If it can't think logically, then, the laws of the universe were simply random, and the Universe might as well been self-created in an atheistic manner. In other words, for God to exist, God's thoughts must have always been ordered in a logical manner otherwise God could never have created order from chaos.

Kepler, one of the great minds in the history of science, came to similar conclusions about geometry, but didn't go as far as to say that it preceded God:

“Geometry existed before the Creation. It is co-eternal with the mind of God... Geometry provided God with a model for the Creation... Geometry is God Himself.”

Johannes Kepler
In "Cosmos" by Carl Sagan (1995)

Kepler was assumedly counting mathematics and the general rules of the universe as 'geometry'.

This means that logic is a precursor to God. Logic, with its simple relations and rules that lets thought itself be ordered, must have existed independently of God's creative power. God could not have created the logic because requires logical thoughts to do any meaningful creating.

This results in two conclusions:
In theology-speak, the first cause is the description given to the creator of the universe, time, the laws of physics, etc. But it seems that in order for the first cause to be a creator-god, then that god cannot have created logic, and cannot therefore be the first cause after all. In other words, the fact that God needs to think logically in order to create means that God itself cannot be the creator of everything, only of parts of reality. In other words, there cannot be any monotheistic creator god.

If God chose to create anything then it must have had reasons to do so. God's "will" is not random, meaningless, chaotic or thoughtless. This means that these "reasons" are dependent on pure logic and must have driven god to do its very first act of creation. These motivations, this initial logic, will have been dictating God's thoughts from the moment of God's inception. If there was no logic and no motivation, God did not create anything on purpose. In that case, you might as well admit that the Universe created itself randomly, and that no creator God was required.

If god created anything according to a thought-out logical plan, or, if God had a desire to create anything that wasn't pure random chaos, then, god's thoughts must have been framed around logic. This logic allowed god to think and create, and, gave motivation to God. Logic must have been the first cause; but if logic is a requirement for God and existed before God could create, then God cannot be the First Cause, and therefore, creator-god theism is false, and atheism is true.

5.2. Saying God is 'Outside' Logic

Some theists will make assertions that god is "outside of outside", "beyond logic", "transcends logic", "not subject to logical limitations" or that "human logic is limited" and other similar argument-stoppers. Although this at first appears to throw all intellectualizing out the window, kick all theology out the front door and firmly garrison the houses of religion from debate, it actually opens up the theist to some further criticisms.

If "Human logic" is insufficient for metaphysics then debating for the existence of God is pointless. Because it is by Human logic, thought and mentality that we arrive at the concept of God in the first place.

If God behaves according to logic that we don't understand (i.e.: Human logic is limited) then God is still behaving according to logic, even if it is logic we don't understand.

To say that god doesn't obey logical rules, to say that God could create a round square, for example, is to say that the abilities of god are abilities that cannot logically exist, making God into fantasy.

"Beyond logic" is a synonym for "irrational", and admissions that beliefs are "beyond logic" is an admission that such beliefs are irrational and logically indefensible.

If God is beyond logic, is it not true that atheists are at least somewhat more rational and logical in their beliefs? It seems to be!

6. Conclusions

If God can make plans, think logically or exist, then logic is an arch-power that encompasses God and gives reason for god's existence which appears to refute the idea that God could be the creator of logic. The God as first-cause argument is partially undermined. If there is no logical reason why God exists then it is more likely that there no logical reason why the Universe exists, and that instead of assuming that the organisational force is a 'god', it's simpler and more rational to assume that it is the universe itself. It appears that whether God exists for logical reasons or not a fundamental contradiction occurs. The only answer is that creator-gods cannot possibly exist. Atheism is more logical. This is also true if God is placed "beyond logic". And if it is said that Human logic is incapable of realizing such metaphysical truths, then this also undermines any argument that can be made by one human to another, for the existence of god.

Theistic arguments that God is 'beyond logic' or at least, beyond human understanding, place God firmly into the territory of irrational fantasy. To retreat into the corner where logic itself is denied, god-believers have admitted that there is no logical basis for their belief. At this point, it is better to try to understand the idea of God in terms of human psychology.

Fascinating write up lowridergirl, lots to digest.

Not my views though it is interesting and does create valid points on both sides of an arguement. I just felt left out cos I am not copying and pasting everything as our lovely maxipads here o.O

blah blah blah maxine and his bf are just upset cause their getting owned by women


Why did the LDS church excommunicate Helmuth for going against Hitler in the first place?

Are you saying being a soldier in Hitler's army was against official LDS church policy?

So you're saying being a soldier in Hitler's army was approved by official LDS church policy?

Why are you stirring the ****????
What the hell is wrong with you?

What can I say. "Saintly" Nazi supporters responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents and their affiliates just rub me the wrong way :)

Which part is the lie? That LDS Nazi soldiers were saints or that official LDS church policy obligated Nazi Mormons to kill their Allied "brothers" during the war?

Did not Christ denounce blatant hypocrisy? Haven't you ever read Matthew 23?

I am very much a follower of Christ Jesus, not Joseph Smith or Joseph Smith's caricature of Jesus.

I highly doubt your a follower, a follower doesn't question another's beliefs and then persecute them when YOU think they are wrong

Jesus didn't "persecute" the Scribes and Pharisees for their practice of false teachings?

I said you not Jesus. I highly doubt that your Jesus.

high five lowridergirl

When have I ever claimed to be Christ Jesus? Could this be yet another strawman?

However, Jesus did teach, "A pupil is not above his teacher, but everyone that is perfectly instructed will be like his teacher." (Luke 6:40) He also taught his disciples, "For I set the pattern for YOU, that, just as I did to YOU, YOU should do also." (John 13:15)

As a student of the life and ministry of Christ I make every effort to follow his model as closely as possible. After all, that's what it means to be a Christian, no? (1 Peter 2:21)

Hence, if Jesus denounced the hypocrisy of the Scribes and Pharisees and unmasked them to the world, I am obligated do the same with modern day "Scribes" and "Pharisees" which is what I've done with 777.

In the same way those who made millions with Bernie Madoff would swear up and down he was a brilliant investor, they had to accept the truth that he was nothing more than a con-artist once the truth came out about HOW he was actually going about making them those millions. Did it hurt them? Absolutely! Being taken for a fool would make anyone seethe.

When a sincere one takes a broader look at the effect their churches, among them the LDS, are having on the world, they accept that, instead of promoting love and unity they overtly and tacitly promote violence, hatred, bigotry and bloodlust. Just like those confronted with the horrifying truth of what Bernie Madoff was actually doing had to face facts and accept the truth, sincere and honest-hearted ones need to do the same and realize that 99.999% of todays so-called “Christians” are the cause of much of the needless pain and suffering in this world while simultaneously being the principal reason why so many millions the world over have turned their backs on God and embraced Atheism, Witchcraft and Islam.

so bottom line it............. ur comment is sooooooo wordy what are you really trying to say

If you don't read my replies why should I read anything you post?



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maxacunt i mite be a "crack head" but atleast im not a ********* like u

lol ouch here I was trying to be polite by calling him maxipads....

maxann and brew you two should be ashamed of your self for bulling / baiting a minor,a young girl.....sad sad lot both of you are for such behavior towards a minor.

I can't believe you!! If you really believe that's a little girl then you've got two brains; one's lost and the other's out looking for it, lol :)

ok take ur chances ... and dont come crying . yes i agree there are many (to many) stupid **** men on e/p portraying themsevles as a young female............but i would not take chances, if it says under 18 - walk away...

I am not bulling or baiting anyone. i have not threaten anyone or caused them any physical harm.