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Homosexuality Being A Sin

For all the people who quote the Bible, in the OT in Leviticus it was also a sin to eat pork an shellfish. It was a sin to have one's hair cut, have tats, piercings. It was a sin to wear clothes of different materials. It was a sin for women to wear pants. It was a sin to pleasure one self, and have premarital sex. It was a sin to work and heal on the Sabbath which was a Saturday. It was ok for a husband to beat his wife bec, she was his property. Slavery was acceptable and so was killing kids who disobeyed their parents. Stoning women who had an an affair was the way to handle it.
In the Gospels, Jesus Himself never said anything about homosexuality. In other parts of the NT , but not the Gospels, which is exactly from Jesus Himself. He did say 2 things which i think are quite appropriate in what I'm relating . 1: (not that I'm saying homosexuality is a sin) , but "he who is free of sin, can cast the first stone," 2: : "judge not, lest ye be judged."
sugarplum1216 sugarplum1216 46-50, F 18 Responses Dec 19, 2012

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Thank you for sharing that. I assume this is the story you thought I'd disagree with. As far as I can tell, all your points are exactly correct.

You're right sugarplum1216. When Jesus said "let he who is free of sin, can cast the first stone" the angry mob turned and walked away, THE OLDEST ONES FIRST. Most controversially of all Jesus reformed the method of atonement for sin. He abolished animal sacrifice and replaced it with one universal sacrifice for anyone who chooses to believe in it, Jewish or Gentile. The religious authorities hated it but could not prove themselves righteous by the OT.

eating shellfish and pork was not to be eaten ever in the Old Testament cleaning ceremony. Also check out Numbers and other part of the OT for allowing husbands to hit their wives. In the OT, there are slaves. Furthermore, in the OT there is a law in Leviticus I believe about a man spiilling his seed in not allowed. Further more there are a lot of other laws in the OT as well. You mention that tatoos and piercings as for hygiene reasons, but in the NT it stated that the laws in the OT was pretty much obsolete while the NT were now in effect. So s Io follow see it a lot of Christians are choosing to not follow anything in the OT , but deciding to follow what Paul claims to have Jesus say, instead of what Jesus said directly about gays which is Nothing. By the way, homosexuals who love each other are just like heterosexuals who love each other and want a relationship. It isn't all about sex.

Sugarplum I will assume that you were responding to me and try and offer another response, I hope that you will consider what I have to say.

Eating shellfish and pork was forbidden in the Old Testament, but directly corrected in Acts 10 when the Lord tells Peter not to call unclean what he has made clean through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. A sacrifice which in that passage is simultaneously extended to gentiles and creation moving us into a season of freedom from the old ceremonial law in the blessing of Christ.

I have briefly skimmed Numbers and done a internet search and I can't find a passage that condones wife beating. I do know that the New Testament clearly states that wife beating is 100% wrong. "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life" -1 Peter 3:7
Here Peter is not saying that women are inferior in any way, he is saying that they are weaker physically and thus should be treated gently and protected. Another translation says "treat your wives in an understanding way", with compassion and patience. Paul also tells husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church in Corinthians. Christ loved the church to bare the consequence for their sins, he never inflicted pain. He bored the pain that we deserved so that we wouldn't have to. It was a totally self sacrificing love.

The New Testament does not make the Old Testament obsolete, it is still valuable and the majority of it is still applicable. Some Laws were done away with, others were generalized, these are talked about in the New Testament which is the Good News the Christian faith and hope that was brought forth in Christs Sacrifice.

On a final note I would like to point out again that the laws that were not directly changed in the new testament still stand. Christ may have not talked about homosexuality directly but it wasn't an issue where he was. The Jewish church already condemned it, as they did adultery. One of the things Christ did do was demonstrate that the way we deal with people who have sinned and been caught must change. One of the strongest examples of this was the woman caught in adultery who was going to be stoned until Christ made the profound statement, "Let he who has not sinned throw the first stone." After which they all left, at heart we all know that we have sinned, that we are imperfect and so cannot condemn another. However notice that Christ did not tell her it was okay that she had committed adultery but rather that he had had mercy. "Neither do I condemn you, now go and sin no more." He didn't redefine sin, just the way we as humans deal with it. Homosexuality is still a sin. This does not mean I am going to shun a homosexual person, the most important part is person not homosexual. It is a difficult line to walk between pointing out that homosexual acts are a sin before God and holding that the way we relate to people cannot be defined by that.

Loving people is never wrong, and always encouraged. The most valuable thing on this earth is our relationships with other people. I have very strong relationships with some very amazing men in my life. However these are not homosexual in nature, meaning they are not at all sexual. I am very open with them and steadfast in my friendship. That is the difference. We are like brothers, not lovers.

To conclude, just because Jesus didn't talk about it specifically does not make what was wrong right, there are a lot of other things that Jesus never specifically talked about, there are a lot of questions that I still ask him and seek answers for, some of which I probably won't know until I see Him. However in the New and Old Testament acts of homosexuality are considered sins and living in a homosexual relationship is considered sinful. This puts it on the same level as living in adultery, viewing ***********, and fornication.

Hi mar3sword. Most people who are sexually active (including the people of the Book) find information about sex, techniques & positions etc. to be useful at least, either like a cook book or a workshop manual, sometimes even to be appreciated as artistic. While the workshop manual will not appeal to everyone it is not quite the same thing as buying and driving a car that you know to be stolen. Nearly all such printed or published material is viewed as pornographic by fundamentalist or extremely religious folk. In my opinion this is as bigoted as racism. People are entitled to embrace the faith of their choice but to despise knowledge which is free of implicit moral judgement is narrow minded.

Eating pork and selfish made one unclean, that is different, it meant that they needed ceremonial washing, which as we know today can rinse of germs which cause sickness. Back then the people didn't know that and thus these ceremonial laws protected them and helped with hygiene. This could be extended to piercings and tattoos. In the New Testament the ceremonial laws about eating were directly abolished in Acts 10. Jesus directly abolished the Law about working on the Sabbath Then he said to them, Mark 2:27 - "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.". This put us back to the Spirit of the Law which is freedom from sin and hurt. ************ is never directly talked about in the Bible, the closes reference is the ceremonial laws about washing after ***********. Which again is clearly a good idea hygienically. Premarital sex is incredibly risky when compared with monogamous sex and is still wrong in both the Old and New Testaments. I do not know which scriptures condone wife beating, but if there are in the Old Testament a direct correction would be Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her". Christ died for the church taking the cost for all wrong doing and loved the people even when they beat and crucified him. This is the same love that husbands are commanded to show their wives, which in no way would ever allow them to hurt their wives. Slavery was not condoned and their were strict rules about releasing slaves. Both men and women who committed adultery were to be stoned and the direct clarification in the New Testament you already mentioned when Jesus intervened when the woman was accused of adultery in John 8. I would like to note that Jesus did not say that adultery was okay, in fact he said it was still a sin but he demonstrated that mercy and grace are the paths God walks. Judgement comes at the end before God and only before God. And we are told that when we stand before God we will have Jesus as our advocate just like Jesus did not condemn the guilty woman he offers us mercy.

After all this my point is that we, as Christians, do not pick and choose what scriptural laws apply today, we search the Scriptures for the truth. The New and Old testaments condemn homosexuality and adultery and fornication. The laws that were no longer necessary after Christs death and resurrection are clearly discussed in the New Testament as I hope you will search and find.


So what did Paul say about homosexuality in Romans?

it's more important that Jesus didn't say anything in the gospels, which is what Jesus said directly, rather than Paul who claims to have heard it from.

Jesus was speaking to a culture that already condemned homosexuality and he just agreed. He corrected the way that people dealt with sinners be refocusing us on our own sins and told us to stop worrying about others. However that does not mean we are to condone sinful actions. Paul's words have great authority and cannot be dismissed because Jesus did not say the same thing. Paul, unlike Jesus, was talking to the Romans, and the Romans did have homosexuality rampant in the ranks. Thus there was a context.

I have said the same as you have now and it is 100% factual they will pick and choose then rationalize it to fit their own bigoted viewpoint , To do as they do is completely unethical and they obviously are very selective in how they choose to obey these old Jewish laws .

You mentioned one of my favorite verses " judge not, lest ye be judged." I love that and try my best to practice it in all the areas of my life. Good for you! I'm so glad God had not appointed me as judge of his children. That would be a hard job! I would much rather show love, kindness, patience, and forgiveness to all. I think it makes for a much more fulfilling life...... for me and for those around me too. Blessings to you!

yes, but as well those old laws were made obsolete by Christ's death for our sins so we may have a new life with Him. in addition, it is said in the new testament many times not to be sexually immoral. also, as it is said in Matthew 7:1-2 "do not judge or you too will be judged (2): For in the same way you judge others you will also be judged and with the measure you use, it will be used on you" (NIV) so, in conclusion do not quote the Bible if you are going to exclude or augment parts for your own argument. Matthew 7:1-2 says do not judge unfairly for the same unfair scale will be used on you. it says be fair. it does not mean do not judge. if we were to not judge, how could we determine who should be our fiends? should we not judge their character before we are good friends or indebted to them? and should we not judge the effectiveness of politicians before electing them to office? an example: before Hitler became Chancellor of Germany he had already written Mein Kampf, which explicitly outlined his desire to kill all the jews, yet he was still able to gain power in a reasonably democratic Germany. so, don't quote the bible and leave things out to further your own argument.

i find it interesting that in your posts you call yourself a Christian and in others you use the word f..k and that you want to eat a girl or woman and that you want to have sex with one very badly. I think you should look into the mirror, and see that you're being sexually immoral

What is your problem? I would like to see the certificate saying you're perfect!

I'm not perfect, and Jesus Himself said nothing about gays in the Gospels.

Sexual immorality includes homosexuality and He specifically mentioned sexual immorality in the book of Matthew.

to Random jerk guy ?>>> LOL< she has you pegged and all your excuses and back peddling won't change the fact that you're a fake and a hypocrite . you will be known by what you speak and what you talk is as perverted and immoral as anyone you want to cast stones at

Additionally, im a virgin. Ive yet to kiss a girl. I struggle with urges and desires but they are fleeting emotional surges in my state of mind. I am not sexually immoral. I can guarantee you that. And if you are such a perfect person, why did you misquote the Bible...something it says not to do in Revelation.

If you are seriously having trouble,i suggest that you pray and talk to the clergy ok

im a virgin. Ive yet to kiss a girl."
again LOL no wonder your wound so tight , I'm hoping you're not a gun owner also

excuse me, did you read his other posts? he talked about he wanted to eat a woman's genitals and he used a vulgar word to describe that. have you read anything else about what he wrote or just this post?

This person who was saying that homosexuality is immoral wrote in a post that he wants to eat a woman out. he says homosexuality is immoral, and writes this, he is the one condridicting himself. you are wrong here MMMartin or MaryOmaga3, what ever name you choose to be called

Its always the Christians who post such stuff !!!

I did a Informal search here on E/p of the ones who called themselves * CHRISTAINS * and ones who said they weren't !!!

The Christians had many more stories on perverted sex and other sexual in formatives COMPARED to the non Christians !!

Hi westsideblues1. I think you could well be right about that. A lot depends on how you define perverted. Many so called 'normal' behavior patterns, such as having only one faithful sex partner for life for example, are really NOT statistically normal at all. At best they are an ideal that even many 'people of the book' struggle to live up to. Over the years I've had lots of (professing) christian friends. Not very many of them were perfect examples of honesty and compassion. I find by and large, that people of your age and older are more inclined to admit their shortcomings than younger people who may have a lot invested in looking good to others. Have you taken into account that it is a condition of grace that in order to claim it, one must admit their faults?

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Unless you live your life like Mother Teresa x2 then you're a sinner. You can find quotes for anything and then interpret them how you want. That's how its designed. It makes you believe you are a sinner, and thus you have no choice but to join the church.

Well said

Everything is a sin in the bible human beings commit sins every day


Jesus actually did say something about homosexuality.He made reference to it at Matt.10:15 so in that sense you are wrong.Not eating shellfish was a law given to Jews not Christian so in that sense you are wrong again.In Jude God Himself said that he did not hold back from punishing people the committed homosexual acts and in Corinthians we know the Bible speaks clearly on the matter as does Roman 1:24-28.
In reference to judging the Bible sets the standards for what is sin in God's eyes so to call something a sin is only possible if God said it first.
God also said in Ezekiel that if you know someone is committing sins and you do not warn them then you are guilty as well but if you do warn them you no longer are held for that sin.
So if you want to quote the Bible you really should know it better.I think why even bother trying to live up to the Bible standards and just live your life if you are going to try to justify it by trying to twist Bible quotes.Just leave religion alone and hope God's judgement day doesn't come while you are alive.That is my opinion.

The theory that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were inhospitable is completely wrong.First of all there is no sin against being inhospitable.Not anywhere in the Bible.Jesus himself told his followers that if someone did not receive you into their homes,dust your feet off and go about your way.The other thing you should know is the angels were not treated inhospitable anyway.If you read about what happened back then the angels were sent to Lot's house and he did invite them in and showed them hospitality so that " inhospitable" theory is way off base and you should not believe such a silly thing.
The real reason why God destroyed Sodom &amp; Gomorrah is found at Genesis 19:1-15.It says the men of the city wanted to have sex with the men that came to Lot in the night.Lot offered his daughters to them men of the city but they refused.They wanted homosexual intercourse.The angels told Lot in verse 15 that God was destroying the people the Sodom &amp; Gomorrah for that error-the sin of homosexuality.
If you read those 15 versus it is plain and clear why they were killed.Look if someone wants engage in homosexual conduct that is their choice but it doesn't mean that in God's eyes it is not a sin.
I don't have a problem people doing what they want but I can't change how God see's it and no one else can either.

Jesus said love for God is the most important thing period.1 John 5:3 says that love of God is by obeying God.Without obeying God you can't have His love.That is firs and foremost before anyone can say that they have love for God or that God even returns His love to them.

Love---with strings attached ! No, thank you---that's NOT love. And the fact that God would consider a man offering his virgin daughters up to be gang raped more "honourable" than homosexuals is not a god who values women.

i think a God condone a father to hand over his daughter to be raped is horrible to say the least

No you have it wrong,Lot knew that the men would never touch his daughters but he certainly gave them a chance to change their ways by offering his daughters,not to be raped but to be with the men.They refused and God does not condone rape or even killing innocent people.Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son and right before he was about to kill his son for God,God intervened and stopped him.God said He saw that Abraham was obedient.That is what God looks for people that obey Him.

The Bible tells history as it happened,it doesn't say anywhere that God condones rape.It only tells of the incidents of when it happened and those people were punished.You just skipped over that part apparently .

That is right if someone rapes God does punish them.God does not condone rape.Never has and anyone that has raped someone else did not do it because God told them to do it.

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sins are actually the abuse we undergo to our souls being a devine property, by our bodies which are a earthling property! When we die, its something like returning the things we borrowed back! Body back to earth, and soul back to Allah,,, and they should be sent to their original owners in such a good condition! Non humilited and not misused! Now in homosexuality, you try to flip the gender of your soul and the natural creation and functioning of your body! Have a thought people!!

That's really wrong! Please go learn about something before giving it a judgement, and never inspire it from the screwed and biased media! They give no fact, but total lies, and fish in mud to defame!

Slavery is no more available to discuss it, but you know very well, slavery in it's old fashion life, means literally "buying and selling people as belongings to one" when you have something as yours in a "sell/buy" contract, you have the total and absolute right to "use" it! But really it's a totally difficult aspect to discuss with such a background about Islam you already adopt! And to your info, it's yes, a master could have sex with his salve women, as any other non Muslim had that same right exactly those past days ;)
To talk about polygamy, well, you know that an average westerner has an average of 70 sex partners along their life span! We Muslim women have usually one, unless a "husband" is replaced by another for a reason! And for men, it's alright to have up to 4 wives, under the condition of being fair to them all, or else, it's only one!
There is a logic after this right!
What if a woman couldn't have babies, being naturally infertile, or if she got sick, should her man cast her like a not needed object to bring the better in place? Don't you see it's more humiliating than getting his rights through another legal relationship, while keeping her up with all the respect and dignity and love of the other?!
At least in Islam, a woman knows who is/are her partners in her husband, and it's already halal ( not sinful)! I don't know what exactly bothers you in this very civilized and respectful part of Islamic statute?! Btw... A woman can refuse it, and also can get an easy divorce if she didn't agree upon it. Concerning the natural jealousy and tendency to boss the man in a woman, you will see that only few will agree upon that, who actually have their reasons!
Those who you see to humiliate a woman in Islam, aren't following an Islamic teaching through it! The guideline says " men have the trusteeship over women in what Allah had bestowed some more than others" it's because a woman mainly is weaker than a man, and needs real protection and support! It's never humiliation respecting her weak nature and asking men to "serve" her the good care she actually needs! Well, some men misuse this right, which is supposed more in favour of women actually! But that doesn't substitute the main rule, because they are just converse to it, and through their own personal flaw!
If scrutinized any culture, any religion, you will never see a more respectful and compassionate religion to women than Islam! So please stop just capturing it through what the fake Babylonia people think as the right or wrong! We women are not born to just wear slutty and expose ourselves in the streets for men to just render us for our physical look only! Who will care to your mind when being busy enjoying your beauty? Hijab forces the man to take you in a more splendid regard than your physiology, and obliged him to respect you regardless if you were beautiful or not! You only have to be decent and mindful to win their real admiration, not according to the size different numbers over different organs of your corpse!

then why did God pwn Sodom and Gomorrah?

I don't understand Spooksue648 please explain. Thanks

I am by no means a Jesus freak. Nor am I religious. And I am bisexual. However I was raised a Roman Catholic, and I'm shooting my self in the foot by saying this but the bible is not the only resource the church uses to define sin. And there are portions of the bible that forbid loving another of the same sex. Those in the religious camp will highlight anything that supports their point. People in the homo camp will highlight whatever proves their point. I think it's about time we all meet in the middle and leave each other the **** alone because things you don't pay attention too cannot enrage you

I'm glad you made this post! People should know that what some call a 'sin' is an arbitrary judgement passed to make an emotional terrorist feel fulfilled. True Christians, Muslims, etc. know how to love. They don't tell someone to burn in hell for being gay, or for wearing multi-fiber clothing.

Thanks for your support. It's great to see another person who are enlightened. Please message me. because I can't message you. God bless.Hug hug

It is so exciting seeing someone else say Hug, Hug. I say it too offline when I want to hug someone. :)

Okay :D