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Trust

I am in a long term with a beautiful younger widow. She has a son 16 who is now and always will be my son also. She has many problems but i love her all the same. Very insecure,narcissist, pills(pain,anti depressants,valium,barbiturates,sleep,drinks every day but not much). Craves attention and affection. Our electric sex life wained then died. I knew then found her cheating and was devastated. We split but i scratched and clawed to find a way to get it back. I found taken in hand and read and read. We gave it a try. She always loved being dominated and spanked in sex so she loved it. After a month or so of getting better and better (sex back in the picture) she started resenting the spanking. the sex stopped and i new she was back with him. Maybe 3 weeks ago i caught her again texting him that she loved him and couldn't wait to see him tomorrow. I was pissed. I said f you, never again and left. I wouldn't answer calls , texts,notes, nothing. She panicked. She begged,pleaded,went for help and promised all sorts of restrictions and plans. I can't believe it myself but i went back. My son needs me ,he can't lose another father.(heart attack) We are working hard to make it work. All of us(they don't get along great but its getting better. Trust is a big problem. I'm always suspecting every meeting,every phone call and always on edge. We have tried taken in hand and she says she really wants to cause it seemed to help so much the last time,but? She seems resentful when i put her over my knee, and complains over light spankings,saying i'm hurting her on purpose and i'm being mean. I'm not , i'm stopping to sooth and comfort, telling her i love her but it is going nowhere. HELP!
joeshannon joeshannon 56-60 21 Responses Oct 25, 2010

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I'd kind of like to chime in on this. LIke the others said she has mental health problems. You are supportive of her - but after a while you have to protect yourself & your son. He's old enough to decide where he's going to live. She is only hurting herself and her son and doesn't see that - or she does but can't or won't commit herself to seeing that she has a good thing in you. If she has a problem with the spanking then back off them - and let her know that you aren't going to resume the TIH program until she is ready and has told you so. It has to be her decision, the ball is in her court and you can't make her 'drink' so to speak.<br />
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I'm on extremely low antidepression meds to help my muscles relax and so I can actually fall asleep at night (I have an auto immune disorder that affects my nerves & causes a lot of pain). She may need her meds readjusted and she may be unable to commit to anything until that get's taken care of. The drinking is also sabotaging her medication and could be affecting her ability to commit and hold herself accountable.<br />
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Now, as far as marriage - I believe in the Christian form of marriage. You don't live together, sleep together or act sexually toward each other. That is God's plan. You have already overstepped that boundary (and she is complicit in that too) and that is affecting her ability to respect you. You may need to consider moving out and getting your own apartment. Give your "son" a room of his own and let him know that he has a place in your heart and your home. If his mom won't get furious give him the choice of who he wants to live with he will probably move in with you. That alone might be enough to get her attention if not you need to watch what decision she makes. Tell her that you are giving your relationship a 6 month or 1 year break - if she doesn't come around by then she isn't going to. <br />
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I would suggest you get a copy of the book:<br />
"Boundaries in Dating" by Dr. Henry Cloud (Author), Dr. John Townsend (Author)<br />
Setting Boundaries In Marriage http://www.boundariesinmarriage.net/<br />
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You might want to suggest and read the 5 Love Languages with your son and begin preparing him for marriage and dating. It will help him learn to know his bride (or girlfriend) and will only strengthen their marriage. (There is also a book for singles - but given your situation and your son you might be interested in this one) "The Five Love Languages Men's Edition" by Gary Chapman<br />
http://www.christianbook.com/languages-mens-edition-secret-that-lasts/gary-chapman/9780802473165/pd/473160?item_code=WW&netp_id=646348&event=ESRCN&view=details<br />
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I wish you well, tiinaj1

First off I want to say I am sorry for the loss of your wife. Cancer is evil. Hopefully one day with in this decade a cure will be found. The second thing I want to say is I read back thru the comments made on your story and I cannot believe people can be so judgemental and narrow minded. Of course you should Not marry her !! Not because of the lack of committment on your part but on hers! If she is cheating g now, I can garrUantee she will cheat in marriage. I personally wouldn't want to walk into a marriage with someone who's addictions aren't being handled. I would tell her that until she decides to straighten up her act or you walk. I'd save myself and get out. All this crap about you not BEng committed is crap by the way. I am a woman and I'm telling you that you can't fx her. she has to fx herself and watching her tear herself down isn't going to be fun. You've read my othr posts I won't go any further. I just wanted you to know that I too beleive that marriage isn't the answer right now. It doesn't make yu less of a man. It makes you a smart and causious one.

I am sorry. I posted the same thing twice on here. I thought my comments weren't being accepted by this stupid computer. But my basic point is still the same.

I want you t know I have bipolar too. I have a different grasp on your situation. I am a medicated bipolar who is very stable right now. The cocktail of meds that I am on now are finally doing there job. It has been arough row to hoe wth this disorder. Although I have never cheated on him, I have tried to run away from him and our relationship when I wasn't medicaticated that is. So for that reason so I don't just pick up and go away and leave my family stranded, I am spanked thoroughly and grounded to the house when I forget to take my meds. With all that being said, In the process of dealing with this disorder I had to come to terms with it. I had to decide for myself that I loved myself enough to want to be stable and "normal". I couldn't love my husband and respect our relationship until I loved me first. It sounds to me like she isn't ready to come to terms with herself. Her actions indicate to me that she doesn't love or respect herself right now and she is looking for someone to fill that void or need. So when things start to not go her way with you, she looks to someone else or self medicates to feel good about herself again. I was the same way befor I met my husband. I looked to everything else to make myself feel whole or high. I finally hit rock bottom at some point and decided I was better than the life style I was leading. So if I were you, I would walk away from her until she is willing to take her life into her own hands and finds a way to love who she is.

My second advice to you was given to me by my mother... If you have problems in your realtionship, marriage only makes them worse. By the way I am bipolar and in a taken in hand relationship. So I completely understand your situation. When I am not medicated I run away and become permiscuos. That is why if I skip one of my meds I am spanked thoroughly and he grounds me to the house. I can tell you my disorder is under control not just because of punishment, but because I need to be there for my whole family and I like feeling stable. But I love myself enough to want what's best for me. Which in turn allows me give my whole self to my family. She has to love herself first before she can give all that she is to someone else. Bipolar sucks. And I feel for you. I know my husband could.

Until you reliquish your need to cling to your own subjective preferences and inventions, you are not going to be able to help anyone. Not her. Not her son. Not yourself. Reality is the only thing that will help any of you. But I see that it is the one thing you refuse. So, you all lose. <br />
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It's not uncommon. We live in a world that insists that anyone's "personal reality" is as real as gravity. I'm sorry for you, and for her.

Sorry forgot to hit speel check on that post.I ramble on and can"t spell.

Yikes! What the hell hapened to you? Was it just one ,lieing cheating,thefing, male or many? I'd be willing to bet they didn't just disaper,i'll bet they ran screaming into the night. Not tring to hide anything? What about your intense hate for males. Haven't heard much about that Ms. Lay your cards on the table."I don't hate males". Yeah right. Men lie, cheat, steal, disaper, there users, there flawed, there cowards, they quit. "It is morilly wrong for a man to live with a women." The male just the male. "Males have troble commiting". To you? I can see that . Disapear? Wow theres a shock. You sit back with your condisending , all knowing attitude, and presume to know and tudor us on when and how we should conduct or lives. When should i have popped the question, two months after i met her just after her first suiside attemt? You would know better then me. I was looking to marry this wonderful, caring,loving women from the start, She was far from readdy. Far. She just lost her husband my son, his father, a year and a half before. Yes MY SON , not by your high and almighty standerds, ours. They had lots of problems. He drank, then her list on top. (Maybe they should have re married that might have fixed everything). I lost my wife of 23 years to cancer. It was the best 23 years of my life. I didn't think i would ever marry again, but then i met s....... She was not readdy and said so over and over. "Just hold me ,love me and help me, which i did with everything i had. It wasn't long that i started to see the depth of the problems. I never lost hope of marrying her and still haven't,but now? Maybe I should call you. You would know better then any low life male.

I get sick and tired of these types of men who accuse all women of being a men haters just because they speak the truth ! Seriously it makes men like little boys who need to grow up ! This woman who wrote you make alot of sense if you are willing to face the truth like a real man and do the right thing.
Apparently men like you are uncomfortable with strong women who can speak up. A real man would respect what she is saying to you because it makes sense. if you do not want to commit to her fully with a REAL marriage than leave her alone and move on. You really have no right to anything right now accept in your own mind. She is legally NOT your wife and her son is legally NOT your son . She should leave you for good....get herself well and healthy and then met someone who will fully commit to her in marriage....Only then would I fully trust a man and I would NOT live with him pretending to be husband and wife when we are not. Why buy the cow when the milk is free ?? if a man want his woman's fully trust and love...faithfulness he needs to put the ring on her finger and show her she is the one and he is in it for the long haul..for better or worse.....this means legally !!

Then I'll make it explicit. Men disappear. Men give up. Because they are human. It is human to be flawed. But men who are willing to face the bad by making an external, public, binding promise in addition to and bolstering their inner convictions, are men who are taking a serious step towards overcoming those flaws. I'm transparent because I'm not trying to hide anything. What you are doing is causing more problems because it is morally wrong to live with a woman to whom you are not married. <br />
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The reason it is morally wrong is because it is a lie. And a form of theft. It is pretending to something real but it is only a fantasy. That is why it has caused such a vast scale of social devastation in the world. That is why, until our own insanely permissive times, it was universally reviled. It is clearly a cop-out for men to have what they want without "tying themselves down". Very convenient. <br />
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Your ob<x>jections, and your hostility to the suggestion that you might need to make a serious commitment, reveal that you are not serious about this. <br />
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Are you the person in charge in this relationship or not? You like to blame her, but you say you are attempting to "take her in hand". It sounds like you have a problem with responsibility. The so-called "taken in hand" thing is one that acknowledges male leadership. Well, lead. Grow up. <br />
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You may sign "a male" but are you a man?

I love your reply....

"Then I'll make it explicit. Men disappear. Men give up. Because they are human. It is human to be flawed. But men who are willing to face the bad by making an external, public, binding promise in addition to and bolstering their inner convictions, are men who are taking a serious step towards overcoming those flaws."

I love what you say here because it is so true and I wish more men would get this and make this kind of effort with a woman.
Our society is really messed up where real love is concerned... It usually ends up being so shallow and unreliable. People just do not understand that real love mean unconditional love.
it mean staying and working things out even when they are tough....love isn't just a warm feelings..it is a choice to love someone even when they can at times seem unlovable...you stand by them through thick or thin.
I am in a situation with a man who talked to me about what REAL love is and how people these days go after the wrong things and forget about real love....I am still waiting to see if he stand behind his words as I have given him so much of myself and my love...I have always gave him patience, understanding and what ever he needed from me....I am now waiting to see what kind of man he really is.....if he will do the same for me...or just walk away on me...you see we had a fall out because he got so busy he hardly made time for me...at times even got a bit lazy trying in which he admitted on his own and said he was sorry for doing that to me....to make the story short...we kind of broke up for awhile....it has been almost a year and he is even busier with work and other stuff which I can understand and has asked me to support him in which I am and have been... he does try to call when he can etc...a few times I felt left out and forgotten and told him I might just go away.....but this is when he gives me the speech about real love....and then he shares with me stuff about how he is a caring man with honesty and how he cares about others and doing good things in life and a godly man..a praying man....I am still trying to figure out if this is worth staying in ...if I should give him time and not give up on him or just move on....... I know what REAL love is and I want it.....with him....just do not know how to read a man's mind....right now I do love him unconditionally....
Unconditional love is very rare these days and hard to find !!
As much as I love this man I would not live with him unless he married me legally and made me his wife...only then would I feel I was in a committed relationship...only then would I give my full trust.....

I just hope this man I am speaking about will realize how much I have stood beside him and loved him unconditionally....I need to know that I am appreciated....he needs to acknowledge me and how much I gave of my heart...

This man who thinks that just living with a woman is REAL Love or REAL commitment is wrong ! A woman will feel more trusting towards a man...more committed to him and love him even more with more respect and appreciation when she knows she has meant enough to him to marry her !!

Are you kidding me? You can't be serious. In one breath you say that if a friend were going to enter into a relationship like this you would advise strongly against it. But yet over and over suggest that the reason that this relationship is failing is we are not married and that i (the male) is at fault. My god you couldn't be more transparent. "being in a long term relationship automatically tells a women a man is not to be trusted". If you are merely living with her you are doing no more then pretending". You are living a lie. She is cheating and lying and destroying and you go on and on about how i am the one who can't commit and can't be trusted'. There seems there is a team running through your posts. Men can't be trusted.Men can't commit. Men lie. Men disappear. You (a male) are only acting for your own selfish desires. My selfish desires? Look back at what you posted and count up how many times you blamed the male and how many times you blamed or chastised her. I don't blame her, i love her. She is who she is . She does nothing mulishly I do all i can to help her and make this work. I love her but it may not be enough. signed, a male.

I am a woman, if you think that is relevant. And yes, I would certainly say that marriage would help confirm for her that you are not going to just disappear when things become too difficult. She is obviously feeling the same thing, as can be seen with her challenge, "get out if you can't handle it?" If you are trying to apply the so-called 'taken in hand' method, you are working from no foundation of anything real. You can only have realistic authority in this situation if you are willing to prove that you are not merely another painful thing in her life, ready to leave when things get difficult. A man's authority over a woman stems not from mere protestations of love. It must be ba<x>sed in something real, ob<x>jective, something concrete that cannot be changed by a whim. Until you are willing to make this commitment, frankly, you are acting only on your own preferences and desires. And these can change in a moment. <br />
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I did not say that marriage would be a cure all. Certainly not, and honestly, if a friend had entered into a relationship like this, I would have advised strongly against it. There is such a thing as the lifeguard rule. <br />
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But marriage can be a foundation, one that can lead to other things. And in the minds of women at least, it is quite a bit more than a mere legal fiction or bureaucratic technicality. It is an indication that you are serious, that you are interested in keeping your word, that there is really and truly no way at all you are going to quit. The fact that you balk at it, tells me, even from the distance of a silly thing like a chat room, that you are indeed unwilling to make that last, irrevocable step. And this is clearly something she can sense as well. <br />
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But apart from the difficulties you face with this woman, you are obviously facing some yourself with coming to grips with actual, external reality. You say that her son is your own. Have you legally adopted him? If not, in what way is he really your son? In your personal conviction? Fine. Then why not legally adopt him as well? It is the same thing as the pseudo marriage you are living in. Willing to enter only into your own personal preferences according to your own subjective ideas. <br />
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Reality is better than fantasy. And until your relationship is ba<x>sed on more than your own subjective, inner inventions, you can have no real authority over this woman, and cannot help her.

Thank You much for taking the time and caring enough to want to help. I know she needs to get in a program, or a rehab. In her heart i think she knows it too. But it will never,ever, happen. Not unless she hits rock bottom. She is 53 tomorrow, she has been on pain killers and antidepressants since 18. We have talked and she flips out. "I'm in pain,there prescribed,i pay my bills, get out if you can't handle it". Her friends, her family have failed,they gave up a long time ago. I love her and hope against hope she will listen someday to someone,but I don't see it happening. When we started taken i got very hopeful that it might lead to some change and it seemed to be going in that direction but then she brought him back into the picture and everything stopped,or changed. As far as him,she has sworn on her sons and mothers life that she would never see or communicate with him in any way again. Over and over. Swore it to her son face to face to and he said "i'm going to hold you to that" and she answered please hold me to it .it will never happen again. Two days later she was back on the phone with him every day for weeks. Seeing him 2 and 3 times a week . This time she swears will be different, but she will go back, and it will soon be over. I am powerless to stop it. As far as marriage it would or might help in limiting her cheating at least for a while. But do i believe it would stop it for good? No i don't. Do you really believe that we should be getting married now then everything will be all better?

Joe, if I may pipe in here. I am a woman in a taken in hand relationship. Respectfully, I agree with Mr. Sperate here... your Girlfriend is in need of professional help. That much is clear. She may need some period of hospitalization to cure her of her alcohol and drug addiction, and then a 12-step program. But in addition to this, you two need to clarify your situation. Living together is NOT marriage. A marriage vow and marriage certificate might go a LONG way in her mind to accepting limits on her behavior. You do need to tell her firmly and once and for all that she may NOT see this other man. Not at all -- no connection. As for her complaining about the spankings, well, if you are administering them according to your pre-agreed upon terms, then she should NOT complain. It would only be right for her to complain if you were giving her punishements capriciously or randomly and for unacceptable lengths of time or at too harsh levels.<br />
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Good luck, sir.

I myself don't call making the commitment of choosing to live with someone,to share the responsibilities of helping her raze her son(who is now my son also) taking on all her problems , his(they lost her husband and father) and my own as merely. We both made a serious commitment to each other. I myself don't need a government piece of paper to make a commitment to someone maybe you do. I stand by my word. I would love to hear your advise to a women writing in saying "my life boy friend who i do everything for,take care of his son,his home, his life,keeps cheating on me. To make things worse he is a drug addict,alcoholic,narcissist,hoarder,spends all our money on himself and lies and lies. He is destroying me and his son". Would it be "well its your fault you should have married him"?

How can I possibly advise you on so grave a matter? I can only say that if you are merely "living with" someone, you are doing no more than pretending. You are, in effect, living a lie, attempting to appropriate something to yourself that is not yours. If you are only living with her, you are telling her, in effect, that you are unwilling to commit fully to her. You are glad to take what she gives you, but are not going to give yourself completely to her in return. The fact that you are living with her without marriage, however, tells me that you don't really know what you are doing. But I can tell you that it is not in the nature of women to trust a man who will not commit himself. You are necessarily adding a constant strain of anxiety to her existing problems; somewhere in the back of her head, whether consious or no, she knows that you can simply walk away at any time. <br />
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What kind of love is that?

No not married. Its wierd. She does have very serious mental problems, she will be the first to tell you. But she is so funktional its unbeleive. If you met her you would love her. Everyone does. People who get to know her better just shake there head and accept her and say "thats......". I have enjoyed nurturing and caring for her tremendosly. She loves that also,thats one of the reasons taken in hand was working so well for us.But thats not enough. Nothing is ever enought, Not enough wine,pills,love, nerer enough aderation. As for marige it would help and she would love it.We have talked but i always think would it be enough? If i new it would be i would get married tomorrow. Would you really advise me to marry her?

Are you in fact married to her? <br />
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You didn't say, but if you're not, it might make all the difference to her and to how much she trusts you. Marriage makes things different, and merely "being in a long term relationship" is something that automatically tells a woman that the man is not to be trusted. <br />
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Other than that, I hate to say it, but she sounds like she has some very serious mental problems indeed.

Thanks. Yes she has been diagnosed. Maybe bi- polar, depression. I know she is a presc<x>ription drug addict, alcoholic, narcissist, hoarder,shopaholic . Amazingly she handles it all very well in most ways. She is very loving and caring, handles her job great(she works with behavioural problem children), pays her bills,,fun to be with most of the time,great sex. Its the other stuff. Her constant needs,attention,the spotlight,adderation,love. Very low self esteem, insecure. It leads to cheating ( not the first time) which leads to lies,and lack of attention to us, and family in general. She craves attention and being worshiped like a junkie.She has no problem finding it. Outside our home she is Ms.Wonderful,everyone loves her. She knows how to get love and she loves it. Shes hot also, so finding a man to adore her is easy. Big problem. Not worshiped all the time home she will find it elsewhere. As far as him she says its definitely over. When we got back together she made some big promissies(her and Psychiatrist came up with) . She called him in front of me and told him it was over. No more contact at all, for her son , for us, for her family. Never again. He was pissed but said he understood. We sat down with our son and she vowed to never see ,or talk to him or anyone ever again.( He knows almost everything,he is 16 and she is an open book). She drew up a contract we are all going to sign saying mostly, never again. And lastly i am going to meet him or talk to him on the phone and get an assurance that he will respect this and stay out of my family. But i am still worried sick. I know she means it, but she will go back. I know she will,she is a junkie. Its sad but its almost over. I can"t tell you how much it means to be able to talk like this. Thank You. joe

Has your wife being formally diagnosed with any sort of mental health issues if not I would get her evaluated because this has an effect on taken in hand relationships and the dynamics that it requires. I would suggest to your wife to cease all contact with tis guy because I think he is adding to her problems and is clearly not helping your relationship with her and your son. People with mental health issues in taken in hand relationships need discipline but you need to accommodate the lows as best you can and come up with a plan and expected behaviour of your wife during the lows like clear communication of her wants and needs and taking medication and being honest about her true feelings etc. I hope this situation is temporary and that you can get in the right place to have a better relationship and soon. Good luck.

Thanks. There is no one i can talk to about this so i appreciate it. She needs help and has tried, but never whole heart. She sees a guy once a week but... I will try kind of putting it in her lap,asking her what she wants out of this. I like that. She has no problem with me being in charge,and I am but... Its weird. I'm in charge and she loves it, then turns on a dime and gets angry and resentful. I'm worried its not going to work and its him she still wants. All i can do is try i guess, give it my best shot sort of speak. Thanks for the help. joe

Well unfortunately I am under the impression she needs more help than what you or a good healthy spanking can give her. I guess from Here on out let her ask you for the spanking. Talk to her about what u expect from a taken in hand relatinship. Then find out what her gaol and expectations are. Talk right now is key. However in your conversations make it damn clear to her that you are n charge if that is what you want. You make all the decisions on everythng ncluding how long you spank her for. Sometmes a woman needs to be spanked past her breaking point. It sounds harsh or cruel but if this is something she really wants she has to take the good with the bad.