Real Meat Market: The Mating Game "Ladder Theory" - Where Does She Really Place You?

The real laws of attraction are a fascinating set of unspoken rules that interact when men and women meet. Intriguing in their simplicity and captivating in their complexity; like a dance following a silent tempo coordinated in pairs. The following is a theory of how these laws play out between people that you may find perplexing and funny. A bit long, but well worth the read. It’s called “The Ladder Theory.”

The ladder theory is a funny, scientific explanation of how men and women are attracted to each other. It also covers such topics as why women sometimes just want to be friends but men always want sex. It is based upon many years of sociological field testing, and was first conceptualized in 1994 in Exeter, CA by Dallas Lynn with acknowledgements to Jared Whitson for his role in formalizing the theory.

Sally: We are just going to be friends, OK?
Harry: Great, friends. It's the best thing...You realize, of course, that we can never be friends.
Sally: Why not?
Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape, or form - is that men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You're saying I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: How do you know?
Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive.
Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail them, too.
Sally: What if they don't want to have sex with you?
Harry: Doesn't matter, because the sex thing is already out there, so the friendship is ultimately doomed, and that is the end of the story.

Foundations of Ladder Theory

Before we get to the core of the ladder theory let's introduce a few lemmas.

Lemma 1:Every time you meet someone you give them a quick mental rating. Just how this is done is based on your sex, like so:

It should be noted that this is not an entirely conscious process. To make it clear here's an illustrative example of what really happens:

• Bob Meets Jane
• Then Bob Meets Connie

Now the ladder theory description goes like this:
1. Bob Meets Jane
2. Bob sizes her up based on the above criterion
3. Bob puts her on the ladder
4. Bob meets Connie
5. Bob sizes her up based on the above criterion
6. Bob puts her on the ladder above Jane

You can recognize this has gone on because Bob says " I'd like to **** Jane, but not as much as I want to **** Connie"

I think that everyone has heard this or something like it enough times for us to accept it as axiomatic and move on. You might be thinking, " Well what about Jane and Connie?" We'll get to them next.

The Rating System

The graphs on the previous page were not thrown together arbitrarily--they represent years of field testing. I say this because this is invariably the section I take the most flak for. Although almost all guys who have not had the manhood ******** out of them know this intuitively. As far as intellectual ****** can determine, the average female ***** has a rating system that works like this:.

So the breakdown looks like:

Money and Power: 50%

Attraction: 40%

Things Women Say They Care About But Do Not: 10%
(this includes intelligence, sense of humor, honesty, sensitivity etc. )

As to the first point, that of money. Well most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be ******* models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically ******, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual ******" who are just trying to earn an honest living.

Most women read this and say something like, "Well I'm not the average woman because..blah...blah...not true...blah boyfriend/lover/husband/masseuse was poor...blah...blah."

If you thought something like this you are very likely the average woman. If you read it and went "Hmmm..." and then you went back to doing physics, then you have a case.

Looks are not to be discounted. I see many girls revert to about a seventh grade emotional level when they see some guy at the club, or some guy from a crappy movie. I think everyone has seen this phenomena, and it seems to have become an alarming trend in women of increasing age.

The attraction category is broken down further in the next section. This is a change from previous versions of the ladder theory that included looks here instead of attraction. I feel this is a more accurate depiction, as evidenced by experiment and peer review.

The last 10% was my effort to give women the benefit of the doubt. A common question men ask of women is "Tell me what you want in a man?", which is like asking how many guys she's slept with, an invitation to be lied to. Because she'll almost invariably answer with some combination of

• sense of humor
• intelligence
• sensitivity
• emotional stability

As far as I can tell this is mostly rubbish. But in an effort to be fair I have included this, since there seem to be a few rare cases of this. Just none that I have ever seen.

Another thing to watch out for is the code words women use. Here is a translation guide for dealing with women.

Says: I want a man who is motivated and has goals.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: I want a man who knows how to treat a woman.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: He's from a really good family.
Means: He's from a really rich family.

I'm sure you get the point. Let's move on.

Deconstructing the Woman's Pie Chart

It was previously thought that the pie chart was fundamental. New advances in Ladder Theory have brought us to a more complete understanding. We have made new advances in the inner structure of the woman's rating system and now present it here.

First let's look at the rating system in Classical Ladder Theory  

Now this is a fairly accurate description, and is essentially accurate. It misses a number of fine points. By defining the 40% block as "looks" the theory had originally assumed that looks were influenced by factor's other than just phyical attraction. For example, a guy who is a complete ******* to a woman seems to somehow look better to them. It soon became apparent from peer review that the term looks was inappropriate and has been replaced by the more accurate "attraction". The new chart then looks like this.

Previously it had been assumed that looks was fundamental. That is, that it could not be broken down any further, and that a score was assigned based on whatever biological principles made women attracted to men. Through extensive research we have been able to discern the inner structure of attraction. A chart will illustrate a very close approximation of the inner structure of attraction for the female. Commentary to follow.

Physical Attraction/Looks - This is still a big factor in attraction. This is self-explanatory.

Competition - I almost titled this section disinterest. The two are closely related. We can only pursue what runs away from us. A man who is devoted to something else besides the woman is automatically more attractive. Any intellectual ***** who has ever listened to a girl complain about how her boyfriend-ran-off-with-a-**** or how her boyfriend-is-really-not-dumb-he's-just-streetsmart-and-he- has-to-sell-weed-to-support-his-baby's-mama or he's-really-nice-even-though-he-ignores-me-and-hits-me-sometimes-but-you-don't- know-what-he's-like-when-we're-alone or he's-not-emotionally-available-that's-why-I-like-talk-to-you-until-it's-time-to-go-****-him while he himself is sitting right there and would like nothing better than to be with her but of course is sitting solidly on the friends ladder knows this intuitively. Ultimately, almost all guys learn this truth for themselves: The best way to never score with a woman is to show too much interest in her.

Women seem to especially like it if you are more devoted to your bad music, biker gang, forearm tattoo or marijuana. These all seem to work wonders. There are some interests you can show in a woman that will help you to **** her: a healthy interest in destroying her self-esteem and in ******* her friends more than her seem to work wonders. Note that the following topics of disinterest have been field tested and shown conclusively not to work: Unix, literature, poetry, international politics, and sodomy.

Novelty - Let's face it, if you're like every other guy who works a normal job and tries to live a good life, you're probably like just about every other guy. Chicks don't dig this, and why would they? Who wants someone who is just like everyone else? Something different is more attractive. Like someone who does not have to work during the day like most people because they have lots of money from business or selling drugs. Or like someone who has stabbed a man and went to prison for it. Different is a veritable ticket to getting laid.

Deconstructing money/power

"Power is a great aphrodesiac" - Notorious ******* and War Criminal Henry Kissinger

"A woman's test is material. A man's test is a woman...if a man could **** in a cardboard box, he wouldn't buy a house." - Rabbi Dave Chappelle.

It was previously assumed that money was a fundamental unit of attraction to a woman. Further investigation has revealed a better understanding of this very important piece of the woman's rating system. The piece which was formerly labelled money has been replaced by a money/power paradigm. The two are almost always intertwined in a way that makes them hard to distinguish, so I don't think it productive to make a chart of how they breakdown exactly. One almost always follows the other in any case.

What is important to know about the money/power piece is that previously it was thought of as static. Now we know that the money/power piece of attraction displays time-variance. That is, the amount of money needed to get maximal "points" in the money category varies according to the age of the woman. When a woman is younger her perspective is different as to what makes a lot of money. As she gets older the amount of money neccessary for full points increases.

For a girl of 16 full points for money might be obtained by having access to a car and beer money. When she is in her early college years, a nicer car and enough money to join a fraternity is probably sufficient. As she advances into her twenties what we consider to be the normal money chart will begin to manifest itself -- that is, she'll want the richest man she can get.

At no point that we can discern does money ever not become a factor. Take any guy. Take a woman that has that guy. In no circumstance that is known would she not rather have a guy just like that, but with more money. Actually, maybe in one circumstance -- when the guy has enough money to buy her basically everything she wants. This is self-evident, I should think.

Dreams of a Final Theory

I think is very very close to a final analysis of how a woman's rating system works. If you are very attractive, rich, and novel and show no interest in her she is almost guaranteed to want to **** you. Indeed, isn't this the very definition of Alpha Male? In this way we have derived from our theoretical framework an idea that agrees with observation and experiment to many degrees of accuracy. It also provides a framework for the Logic. Strive to be attractive, novel and aloof and you will go far.

Ladder Construction

Now for the core of the theory. Since everyone you meet has a rating, it is only natural to stack them up on a ladder.

Let's look at the ladder of some example man.  

So it should be self-evident, if you are following this at all, that the people you want to have sex with the most will be at the top of the ladder. Descending down to the bottom of the ladder we pass the following people:

1. The people we really want, who may even be out of our league, are on top.
2. Then come the people we like.
3. Moving further down we pass the people who we would **** if we were intoxicated and would admit to doing it later.
4. At the bottom are the people we would **** drunk, and would lie about doing it later.

Clinging to the bottom are the girls that are wolf ugly. These are women so ugly you would chew your own arm off to get away rather than **** them. Usually fake teeth, or the loss of several hundred pounds can move a woman up from wolf ugly.

Now let's take a look at what the typical woman's ladder looks like:

The first thing to notice here is that a woman has not one ,but two ladders. This is because in addition the normal ladder, a woman also has a friends ladder. The friends ladder is where a woman puts guys that she considers "just friends". More to the point where she puts guys who don't get to have sex with her.

The problem arises because a woman never lets a guy know which ladder he is on. Obviously there is a huge difference, or gap between these two ladders. It is in this gap that kisses of death are delivered and intellectual ****** are made. All a man can do is "go for it" and make a move on a girl; ask her out, try to kiss her, write her a love note or whatever. If he's on the good ladder fine. If he is on the friends ladder this is a case of ladder jumping. The man is trying to jump the gap from the friends ladder to the real ladder. The girl has two choices at this point: she can let him on the ladder and all is well, or, more likely, she can kick him in the head, and off the ladder. If you look you'll see that below the ladder is the Abyss(what was it Nietzsche said about a man being on a rope stretched over an Abyss?....well it's worse than he thought; there is no rope.) So the man falls into the Abyss. The Abyss isn't really as bad as it sounds. Mostly it's a period of self-loathing, embarrassment, and of course utter awkwardness with the girl in question if they are talking at all.

To fully illustrate the point I'll now examine some common scenarios and their ladder theory explanations. For purposes of these examples Tom will be our boy and Jane will be out girl.

Scenario 1: Tom meets Jane. She's pretty and seems interesting to talk to. Tom and Jane start haging out and talking more and more. Tom develops an attraction to Jane, and one day tries to kiss her. Jane tell Tom she doesn't think of him that way and she wants to remain friends. The next few weeks contact between the two falls off. Jane starts ******* an outlaw biker.

Ladder Theory Explanation: Tom met Jane. Tom was immediately placed on the friends ladder. Tom didn't know this. Tom tried to jump ladders. Jane kicked Tom in the head rather than let him on and sent him hurtling to the Abyss below. The oulaw biker was not on her friends ladder (they never are) but rather on her good ladder.

Scenario 2: Tom meets Jane. She's cute and seems smart. After an appropriate amount of time he asks her out on a date. She acccepts and they have what seems to be a perfectly nice date. Tom thinks he has a chance with Jane. He asks her out again. She says no, either explicitly or by never returning his phone call. Tom has no idea what the Hell just happened. Jane starts ******* an unemployed alcoholic.

Ladder Theory Explanation: Jane misrepresented which ladder Tom was on. He thought he was on the good ladder because of her acceptance of the date. Mistake. This led to an unintentional ladder jump. He was kicked into the Abyss. In this situation, Jane often wants to stay friends becasue you are so interesting and funny or some **** like that. If this happens you are most likely an Intellectual *****. I'm sorry. This is most likely to be a ninja-*****.

Scenario 3: A girl says any of the following to you:

• "You're like a brother to me"
• "You're like a big teddy bear".
• "I feel like I can talk to you about anything"
• "You're so nice"
• "Can you help me with my homework"

Ladder Theory Explanation: You are on the friends ladder. So Sorry.

You can see that a lot of problems can be avoided(though sadly not problem two) by declaring as soon as possible to a girl that you will not be friends under any circumstances. You can explain that she is too attractive or you can be blunt and say you don't want to bend your "friends" over a table and **** them, but would rather play poker and go to the races with them, thus disqualifying her from friendship. As long as you are clear. This may scare a girl away. But if it does what would you want with such a skittish little twit anyway?.

Next we'll explore some of the consequences of the ladder and applications in every day life.

Hidden Variables in the Ladder

The Ladder Theory is assumed to be correct for all classical phenomena. There do seem to be some "hidden" variables that modify the Ladder to some extent. These variables do not affect the rating system, nor do they affect the fundamental theorems of the Ladder. They do, however, modify how we act with regard to the Ladder.

These are the hidden variables that have been identified.  

While most people, even people who believe in God, will have sex before they are married and thus fall under the rules of the ladder, some people are so religious they will not have sex until they are married. This is of course a silly and anachronistic practice, but it does occur. In this case, the Ladder should me modified as follows: change instances of 'would have sex with' to be 'would like to have sex with.' This works because while religious people have the same impulses, they choose to deny them as opposed to embracing them.

Of course when drunk we do things we wouldn't do otherwise. Usually when sobriety sets in, there is a return to the tenets of the ladder theory. In most cases, it should be noted, repressed Americans use being drunk as an excuse to do what they wanted to do anyway, so one should be very careful in applying this variable. For example, I'm drunk as I type this, but I would have typed it anyway, even though I might fall back on that excuse if there are a lot of typos in there or it doens't stand up to peer review. Do not let me get away with this.

A lot of people have asked about the significant others of friends and if they are special cases of the Ladder. They are not. These are not your friends. These are virtual friends. For example, a friend of mine is ******* a girl. I like her, she's great, we get along, etc... But when they break up she is dead to me. Or if the friend leaves the picture the normal rules of the Ladder apply. So are we really friends? Of course not. We are conditional friends. This does not affect where she goes on the Ladder. Think of it like this: the Ladder is a rating system, and I'll rate her along with everyone else based on how much I would like to **** them. A note for guys: if your friends girl offers you a piece you should hit that ****, because he shouldn't be laying up with no ho. Ideally you should tape it also, because most guys will believe the person they're *******.

What desperation does is shift downward the line of quality that one would consider for *******. There is a line on the ladder that is the quality of the last person you were *******. Since one of the purposes of life, if not the purpose, is to move up the ladder, you want someone above this line. Sometimes you can't find someone above this line. This leads to a virtual shift in the line downward as one gets more and more in need of a ****. But in terms of what a person wants, nothing changes -- you'd leave your desperation **** for someone else with the requisite ladder attributes.

Hidden Variables and Sanity:
Note that all known hidden variables are indicative of an altered consciousness of some kind. At the 'limit of sanity' the Classical ladder's rating system still applies. So I don't feel that these change the core theory, but explain times when the theory is not able to be applied because your perception is wrong.

Yes Virginia,
They all want to bang you

You'll note that a man has one ladder while a female has two. The man is lacking a "friends ladder." The man's ladder reflects the conventional wisdom that a man generally only wants one thing. That's because the conventional wisdom is correct. This leads us back to the conclusion that many women I have explained this to find so distasteful:  


Many women want to argue this point and say things like " I have lots of guy friends." Maybe. There are exactly 3 cases Intellectual ****** has identified whereby a guy and a girl can be friends:

1. The guy is gay
2. The guy does not find you attractive
3. The guy already has a woman much higher than you on the ladder

Even Nietzsche knew this. Most guys know this intuitively. Most girls doubt. I have a challenge for all of you girls who still doubt. Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply.

...this only works if you are honest with yourself. Number one is of course something that guys hear all the time. Intellectual ****** refers to it as the Kiss of Death. It is more likely that he will jump you eagerly.

Ladder Consequences

Toward A Meaning of Life
Convieniently, the ladder theory answers the oft asked question, "What is the purpose of life?" The purpose of life is to move up the ladder. The person you are with now should be better (higher on your ladder) than the person you were last with. Okay it's not perfect but if you have no direction in life, trying to **** hotter and hotter chicks or richer and richer guys is as good a place as any to start. In addition to giving a good base toward a meaning of life there are a few other things that ladder theory explains.   Topping out the Ladder:
Have you ever seen a guy that was not particularly attractive, rich or muscled yet was with a lovely woman? For most guys the most common reaction is envy, something like "Hey I'm not all that muscled, attractive or rich either. Why can't I be ******* a girl like that?" We at intellectual ****** used to feel this way about "stump factor" as well. But then ladder theory was discovered and we realized that it was more rational to pity this man.

Ladder theory tells us that the purpose of life is to move up the ladder. When their relationship ends, he will probably never be able to get another woman as good as the one he is with right now -- the rest of his life he'll likely be striving in vain. In effect, he's doomed the whole rest of his life to meaninglessness unless he marries this girl. This of course is just trading one type of doom for another.

Ladder Disparity
The ladder is obviously a two-way process. When Bob meets Jane he puts her on his ladder and she puts him on her ladder. It often happens that one person is a lot higher on your ladder than you are on theirs, or vice versa. The leads to a situation that looks like this:

Notice that Bob has Jane very low while Bob is very high on Jane's ladder. He is most likely rich and she is most likely ugly. Anyhow this is a classic case of disparity. If we connect the two points we can make a right triangle. The resulting hypotenuse "c" is the magnitude of the disparity

c = total disparity

Common shorthand among ladder thoerists is "Well, she caught him ******* a stewardess and didn't leave him but what do you expect for a level 5 disparity." The position of being high on someone else's ladder while having them low on yours is referred to as being in the "upper" or "power" position. This is good and leads to different things depending on who is in the power position.

If the man is in the upper position the disparity is a measure of how long the woman will put up with him cheating, using her physically without committing, or paying his rent and all his bills.

If the woman is in the power position then it is a measure of how much the man will spend money on her, fetch her things at midnight, and listen to stories about other guys she is *******.

Ladder Manifestations

Classical Ladder Theory admittedly treats relationships as binary, in the sense of sex or not-sex. There are in-between cases, which I feel the Ladder addresses. In this section we will take some common scenarios and see how they are explained within the framework of ladder theory. The first two, cuddle ******* and friends with benefits, were proposed in an email I received so I have dealt with them first.  

On Cuddle *******

Cuddle *******
cuddle *****(n) - a guy who never gets to sleep with a girl but gets to have intimate moments with her like cuddling, spooning, or otherwise being affectionate. Usually this will occur in private. She probably considers him a really sweet guy, which is the kiss of death.

First off, cuddle ******* are bad, bad things to be. Maybe the worst thing to be. I mean, being an Intellectual ***** is bad, but being an Intellectual ***** who has to endure blue-balls is bordering on criminal.

As to how it fits into the framework of the ladder.

Basically this is just a guy who has a very high position on the friends ladder. So far up the friends ladder that he gets the dubious honor of getting to provide all the intimacy that a girl is missing when she's off ******* guys who basically don't care about her like outlaw bikers and band members. So he gets to be the proxy father/confessor/friend/teddy bear for her, depending on what she is missing at the time. Perhaps the only consolation of this is a ladder jump to the real ladder seems statistically a little more likely to succeed. Of course, when one is that high up the fall is dreadful indeed...

How do we know this? Well, if a woman had a nice loving boyfriend then he would be doing all the cuddling and whatnot and likely wouldn't stand for a woman maintaining a stable of cuddle *******. Unless he's completelty pussified, in which case she's likely ******* some other people anyway.

For guys unacquainted with Ladder Theory, it is even worse. The cuddle ***** often thinks he is on the good ladder as opposed to the real ladder. So he gets all excited about his position instead of realizing he is being completely used. So this poor tool is really setting himself up for a fall at that point.

Note: This does not apply if cuddling under the influence of mushrooms, for the express purposes of avoiding hypothermia, or if the woman is a ***** that you've recently paid for sex. Cuddling is perfectly acceptable and probably non-sexual in these circumstances.

Friends With Benefits:

This is the case where you get to sleep with a woman or have some sort of intimate physical relations without any sort of committment.

All we can say to this situation is: bravo! This is the optimal condition to be in--with as many women as possible.

A lot of people try to use this condition as a criticism of ladder theory, so I'll state again here that this fits perfectly in the framework of ladder theory. A woman has two ladders, but the second one is the 'guys I would have sex with' ladder, NOT the 'relationship ladder.' So 'friends with benefits' is a complete ******* misnomer, since you are not actually 'friends', you are quite more than that. The Ladder Theory only states what makes a woman want to have sex with a man, it does not take the puerile view that women don't want to have sex, or that they have to be somehow tricked into it. If you are a 'friend with benefits', then you are on the Real Ladder. Congratulations. If you get replaced, you haven't been demoted ladders, you have merely been replaced by someone higher than you on the Real Ladder.

That being said, usually women are more interested in long-term relationships than men, and consent to this form of relationship because there is ladder disparity in favor of the male. A lot of women say that they are just having sex, they like it as much as men etc... While the second statement is undoubtedly exaggerated, there is no reason to think that women don't want to have sex just as much as men. Which if course only makes it worse if a woman doesn't want to have sex with you.

Of Female Footstools

Judging by the amount of mail I have gotten about it, a LOT of guys are using the tactic of making friends with the less-than-attractive friend of a girl they want to **** in order to score points with the girl higher up the ladder. I have never found this to work very well for me personally, but it does not require an addendum to the Theory, and can be explained within the framework of Classical Ladder Theory.

Let us call the woman you are using to score points with the woman you want to **** the 'footstool.' The woman you are trying to **** we will call the 'target.'.

There are two basic situations here. One is that you would **** the footstool. This is the easiest one. If you would **** them then you're not really friends. The other is that you wouldn't **** the footstool. If we look at the ways that men can have female friends we find if you wouldn't **** them or if you are ******* someone better. In this case the target is by definition better, or else the target would be the footstool. So the whole thing is explained by the Ladder Theory already. Of course the very idea of calling someone you are merely using to **** someone else a 'friend' is a little ridiculous also.

One interesting thing about footstools is it is about as close as a woman can usually get to knowing what it is like to be an intellectual *****.


Exes are not a special case in the ladder. Usually when someone gets broken up with it's because the other person thinks they can do better on the Ladder. Or already has. If you didn't think you could do better why would you leave the one you were with?

The usual pattern for exes is to try to be friends, realize it's not going to really work, and then become more and more distant toward each other over time. In any case, if you continue to **** for a while, then you continue to ****. You wouldn't have had a relationship with them if they were not on the real ladder, so if it's convienient there's really no reason not to.

If you are friends, then the normal rules of how men and women can be friends applies. But it should be said, that many exes try to be friends because it seems like some **** they should do, when in reality one of them is hoping they will get back together or at least continue to ****


Answers to Common Criticisms

Criticism: You're just bitter.
Answer: Maybe I am. But ladder theory made me that way, my bitterness did not make ladder theory. Attack the theory, not the person behind it. And why does everyone always say I'm bitter just because 99.999% of chicks are *******?

Criticism: I have lots of male friends who would never think of me that way blah blah blah.
Answer: Your friend doesn't find you attractive, or he's currently doing better, or he's gay or you're wrong.


Criticism: That's not true
Answer: Yes it is.

Criticism: So a woman is a bad person just because she won't sleep with you? Don't you hang out with people you don't want to sleep with? Are women supposed to just **** every guy who wants to **** them so they won't be *******?
Answer: Yes, I hang out with people I don't want to sleep with, but they're all people who don't want to sleep with me either. So there's equity. It's not that I think women are bad people for not wanting to sleep with me. It's moreso that:
I have plenty of friends already
I will never be able to truly be friends with them because my perspective will be colored by my desire to sleep with them
If they are not cool then they are probably just attractive and why would i want to hang out with them if they won't sleep with me? If they are cool then the desire to sleep with them will only intensify the more I hang out with them so I am really only torturing myself emotionally to hang out with them and pretend that that is all I want. Why would I or any guy want to put himself through that?

Criticism: Do you expect to get laid when you have this whole site devoted to how much you hate women?
Answer: First off, this is a forum for my narcissism. As to hatred of women -- if that's what you think then you are clearly projecting your guilt about being a ***** onto me. Not a single woman who wasn't a ***** has ever complained about misogyny at this site. I can prove this on an abacus.

Criticism: In the section on ladder disparity you make reference to the 'hypotenuse.' The ladders however, are metaphorical constructs, and are not a defined distance apart from each other so this term is misleading.
Answer: It seems that way at first, but that's because you have failed to understand the topology of Ladder Space, which should of course be so obvious that a formal proof is not required. Idiot.

Criticism: You must have been terribly hurt, or had a terrible relationship with your mom or [insert pseudo-Freudian amateur psycho-babble analysis here]
Answer: See my answer to the first criticism. Also, why doesn't anyone ever assume that my mother was so great that I have never yet found a woman to live up to her standard and thus became bitter?

Criticism: You must have too much time on your hands, and you must not be getting laid, to write all this stuff. Lighten up, and [insert one of: grow up, get laid, or get a life.]
Answer: Depends on my mood.

For a good mood: Who says I don't get laid? For all you know I've only had 4 rejections in 25 years. Not bad on the whole. Also, I'm just presenting the world as I see it. I never said I was angry that women all want rich guys. Indeed, it gives me an incentive to save money. To the contrary I don't have enough time. Like Keats, I am afraid my pen, or keyboard as the case may be, will not have time to glean my teeming brain before I shuffle off this mortal coil. Assuming you are correct, though, how would that change the ladder theory?

For a bad mood: Right, some kind of life it must be if you're spending time writing missives about the virtues of women friends to guys who have websites. You obviously got married too soon or are a ***** whipped little ***** who knows he can't pull off what women really want so you spin these little defensive theories about how you should be nice and sweet and kind, and I'm sure it occasionally gets you some very boring women. As for me, I'll be partying with a couple of hookers who are VERY honest about what they want and suck a good ****. Just please raise your mewling little brats not to talk in movie theatres, and not to bother people trying to do something creative with their snivelling.


Common Misconceptions and FAQ

How can a woman want rich guys and outlaw bikers? Isn't this a contradiction? The Rich Man/Biker 'Paradox'

One problem often brought to my attention as a 'contradiction' in Ladder Theory is that it postulates that women want rich men as well as Outlaw Bikers, who are generally the opposite of rich men in every way. This leads to insightful analysis like 'well, how can they want both? your theory sucks.' I can see how one could come to this conclusion since I state that women want rich men and Outlaw Bikers, but Outlaw Bikers are typically are not rich, barring drug dealing activity.  

The best place to start is to reformulate the question in another form. Given the high percentage of female attraction attributed to money/power, why isn't every woman ******* a wealthy man? When we state the question in this way the answer becomes clear: scarcity. To belabor the point, if all men were equally wealthy or powerful then there would be no distinction between them, and this variable would be eliminated from the Ladder. Since rich men are scarce, they are more in demand. Since they are high up on a lot of women's ladders, they are able to have women that are high up their own ladders.

Despite the common misconception that males are out to **** anything that moves(although they might be out to **** anything really HOT that moves), they have a Ladder and a ranking system of their own. A lot of people make the mistake of assuming that men never exercise judgment regarding whom they ****. If that was the case, it would
be like a game of tag -- whatever women gets there first and promises to lick his balls wins. Not the case.

What many people forget about the Ladder is that men have Ladders and ranking also. A woman can't have any man she wants. Sometimes a man doesn't want a woman because he's had much better, or he just doesn't find her attractive.

If we put the following question to a female honestly, the answer will be yes almost all of the time: "I like that person now, but would I prefer that they were as they are plus more attractive or more wealthy?" Well why wouldn't you want someone just as they were but with a little more money or a little better looks? There is one instance, that is when gaining those things would put them high enough on the ladders of others that you could no longer compete. We know that if someone improves themselves drastically they will move on to better people unless they feel a very acute sense of loyalty.

All women want a hot, rich man. That is not possible for all women. There are a shortage of rich men, and a definite shortage of hot rich men, since if a man is rich he doesn't have to bother to look good. So if most of the men in a woman's life are of basically average looks and similar income, what is going to win out? Novelty, and power, which many outlaw bikers possess. By the description of attraction in the Ladder Theory it only goes to follow that if a woman can't have a rich man, that she'll gravitate toward an Outlaw Biker. Note also that the time-relative nature of the money variable predicts that a woman will be more likely to want an Outlaw Biker when she is younger, since the Outlaw Biker is usually lacking in money. This appears to be consistent with observation.

Can't the two ladders be represented as just one big ladder for women?

A lot of people have suggested that women really only have one ladder, or men really have two, and both are completely missing the point of the 1-2 ladder scheme. Yes you COULD say that guys who women won't **** are way down on their only ladder and you COULD say that guys have a separate ladder for women they wouldn't ****.

The point of saying women have two ladders and men have 1 ladder is to illustrate the fundamental difference in outlook between men and women. The point is that for men, there is a ranking that takes place based on the pie charts and women get put on the ladder and that's it. How much do I want to **** her is the fundamental unit of a man's thought.

A woman on the other hand, seems able to recognize atrributes in a man that would make her want to **** him and yet still not **** him, either because he is too good a friend, or because she just 'doesn't see him that way' or by some strange mystery of human chemistry. So the metaphorof the two ladders is to illustrate this fundamental difference in thought.

Are you serious or is the site just satire?
Nothing is just satire.

What about homosexual/bi-sexual/trangendered/spongecake fetishists?
I pretty much reject those labels. I think it's more of a spectrum with 1 being something like perfectly straight, and 10 being perfectly gay. I am about a 2.5. Therefore I don't feel qualified to write about h/b/t/s relationships. If someone who is more gay than I wants to, I'll be glad to post it if it isn't a total piece of ****.

I don't understand how my situation -- [ insert situation XX ] -- fits in with the ladder theory
Try harder. Ask your friends, Ask your friends again.

Ladder Songs
Musical Intonations of Ladder Theory


Ladder Theory Songs
The Ataris                 Your Boyfriend Sucks
Cake                         Friend is a 4 Letter Word
Cake                         Italian Leather Sofa
Jets to Brazil             Starry Configurations
Ben Folds Five         Song for the Dumped
Paul McCartney        The Lovers that never were
The Descendents     I'm the One
A Perfect Circle        3 Libras
Good Charlotte        Boys and Girls
DMX                         What These ******* Want
Frank Sinatra          Just Friends
Kool Mo Dee           They Want Money
Bowling For Soup    Suckerpunch
The Offspring          Self Esteem
Biz Markie                Just A Friend

WhatchaSay22 WhatchaSay22
31-35, M
1 Response May 6, 2012

Ladder theory is not a Theory it is the Truth! MEN have on ladder women have 2