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I Love Being Irish!

 

 

To be exact.....Black Irish.  There is some controversy as to whether there is such a thing.....I am proof.  I have studied long hours and gone to Ireland tracing my family tree.  The Spanish Armada did indeed invade Eire and were overtaken by the brave people of that land.  The controversy comes in the form of: Did they take Spanish sailors as prisoners and use them as working slaves and did they "mate" with the young Irish lasses who found them most intriguing and attractive.....I found one Spanish name among the ancestry and I have the darkest brown hair possible and rich dark brown eyes. My conclusion?  Someone in my family thought the Spaniards were handsome indeed!

My name translates to Sine (SHEE na)  Caitlin (KOT leen) and my maiden name is so Irish it screams the Emerald Isle.

I love to celebrate St. Patrick's Day but do so in the style held by those in Ireland.......no green beer or corned beef and cabbage for me.   I decorate my home with Irish heather, Irish Bells, and green and purple shamrock plants, later to be placed in the garden.

Dinner consists of a hearty Irish stew, my grandmother's recipe for Irish soda bread and a wonderful concoction called Colcannon Mash. This consists of potatoes, lots of butter, milk, cabbage, ham, scallions and cracked black pepper.

And last but not least, St. Patrick Blue is to be worn in his honor and the honor of the Virgin Mary.  It is the national color of Ireland, not green as most think.

Haha, and by the way, I DON'T go around pinching people!

giggles4488 giggles4488 56-60, F 53 Responses Dec 4, 2009

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My father's people were purportedly 'black Irish'; he had black hair, green eyes and dark skin. My sisters & I are all strawberry/green eyes/fair like our mom. Unfortunately, generations ago they left Ireland in the late 1890s after the famine and came to this cursed land (my great-grannie's description).

My love is a Flynn and you know what they say about Flynns? There's so many of 'em you have to spray for 'em.

We have visited Ireland and wished we could move back there, but if we brought all our Flynns the country would riot.

I would suggest that it is highly dubious that the the dark features that some Irish people have is anything to do with the Spanish Armada. In fact recent genetic studies show the extremely close similarities between the Spanish and Irish. I am sure you are familiar with the Milsean invasion of Ireland in Irish mythology. well the Milseans more than likely came from Spain. So the link between Spain and Ireland goes a lot further back.

I am, indeed, familiar with the Milesians and the stories of mythology. I'm also aware there is still much argument as to whether these stories were brought about by medieval historians spawned by other writings, in particular The Seven Books of History Against the Pagans. All of it is fascinating to study. Lol, I think I've read just about everything written over the years and have spent time in Ireland researching my ancestors. Wherever I attained my dark hair and eyes...I'm still very proud of all parts of my heritage. As I said in my story, someone in my family thought the Spanish a handsome lot and I still do. I'm married to a Spanish man so the "link" carries on ;)

TrueCelt....I am sorry to see that you are still trolling this story and insisting on picking a fight over everything any of us say. A few have actually PM'd or WB'd me to talk because they didn't want YOU to make comments and rip them apart. I will give this as my last warning.....do not troll this story and continue your quest to make incendiary remarks. If you continue this behavior, I have no choice but to DELETE your remarks and block your trolling from my posts. This story was meant only to give those who are close to me on EP an idea of how "my family" celebrates a holiday, but you have run those friends off and I'm fed up.

As for "playful racism" and the promoting of it.....that is the very reason it continues in its most vile and putrid forms and why so many are hurt by it. To spread such a notion is harmful and I agree with Alluneedis and AutumnFrost77...THERE IS NO PLACE FOR RACISM OF ANY KIND and the word "playful" added to it doesn't make it any less disgusting.

I will ask you just once more to desist in your attempts to cause ill-will and hurt on this post or I will delete you and all your ugly comments.

Thank you

I'll save you the trouble. There's clearly just a difference in culture between your friends and myself. In my defence I do think there's a difference between "trolling" and responding to condescending or passive-aggressive comments. I really dont think anyone has a moral high ground here. I also believe I've explained myself well and I've received PMs from those who understand where I'm coming from. But I'll leave your thread and not post again, I only remained because I felt bad about hurting your feelings and I wanted to offer you some peace between us. I'll offer you good luck and peace because you've been nothing but kind and polite in our engagements, even when I had insulted you. But I dont offer the same to those who cast their judgement so quickly and threw stones that weren't even theirs

And for the record I in no way whatsoever support racism, racist abuse, mental bullying or prejudice of any kind. I've stood up against anyone that uses a deliberately hateful word many times in my life, and that's not just in overly-sensitive western society, I've spent time in South Africa. Having been racially abused myself and after lengthy conversation with other irish people and blacks, polish and romanian friends I can assure you "playful racism" is a lot better than actual racism, and they are 2 entirely different things. Maybe only male relationships allow for that kind of rapport but the fact remains it brings us closer together and removes a massive amount of tension. It's only racism if someone is offended. Maybe it's not everyone's way but it's certainly the way of an Irish male to devalue the racist comments and have a sense of humour about the situation. Have some tolerance for something that's not just my way, it's the way of a huge amount of individuals who have received racist comments in their lives

Thanks for the story passed on from your great-auntie, unQuenched, very interesting.



Not "playful racism" at all, but I could see how you might take it that way, Truecelt. Just a playful way of saying "shame on you for not wearing green". It is a very American thing, btw.

Ah yeah, sure just banter anyway :). I was glad to read that account of its origins, sort of thing you cant find from just a google search

When I was a boy, my great-aunt explained to me why we pinch people for not wearing green on St. Pat's; "It used to be that people in Ireland were hanged for the wearing of the green, on any day, so, here, in the US, on this one day, we'll pinch those who won't wear it. It is not so harsh as the English way, but it is our day, and we want it to be honored."

I don't know how much 'fact' is in that, but it seems to be a lot of 'truth.'

Only in America, AFAIK. I was shocked to hear tha people were hanged for things that seemed so trivial to me as a kid. I don't know if what she said of pinching was from knowledge or her own pondering.

Why not pinch it is fun for both if done in play (and not hard) :-) well now i know how to properly celebrate, i know our beer is thick and strong regardless of color , and i would like to see Ireland some day ...

Lol, you don't have to celebrate as I do, these are just family traditions handed down to me, but happy if it gave you some ideas. I've spent a great deal of time in Ireland in my younger years and hope to go back to visit relatives again someday. Oh, and yes, lol, pinching can be fun ;)

I. for one, don't need an apology, my dear. It ruffled my feathers, too, to see someone purposely troll this lovely post over and over in order to incite an argument and make you feel as though you don't know what you are talking about. As GarciaMarquez said, it's easy to google and that's what the young man should have done before calling names and insulting those who celebrate differently than him.

Now, as for the pinching.....LOL, NJ is right, I can picture you with that giggle going and pinching the daylights out of someone! Glad to hear Brook and Belle taught you the "proper Italian pinch" ;) Hugs, DM

Agreed!

giggles4488 may sugest a movie for u? u should check out boondock saints its a irish movie and its very good

I've seen it and agree, good movie.

Great film, but funny to hear the attempts at the accent. Some great Irish films, Intermission, In Bruges, The Guard, Ondine's not bad and for a great laugh Adam and Paul

Thank you, Saintsforever, I'll check it out. Hope your weekend was a good one ;)

*runs in for HUGGIES* Thank you NJ, you KNOW I think your name is so lovely...brings a smile to my face each time I speak it! Lol, yes, as Woman In Bliss and others have said, there are many stories about the Spanish and don't know what is true or not....one thing I know for sure, someone in my family thought those Spaniards where pretty hot because they married into the fam!! As for my "plastic glowing saber spoon....Tahaha, yep, I can swing that thing but as you say, that is ANOTHER story for ANOTHER time =D Now for your "lingering question"....Oh I've been known to pinch a few folks but it has nada to do with being Irish , lol, it's just a little something I picked up from my Italian sisters, Brooklynchick and Belle!!

Thank you, GarciaMarquez and WIB, for your thoughtful comment. I was not feeling my best and allowed someone to drag me into his argument and I apologize for that. I only meant to relate the traditions in my family with this post, not force anyone to celebrate as I do. Bright blessings, Giggles.

Isn't Google wonderful:-



"Saint Patrick's color was blue, not green, say historians. The hue — St. Patrick's blue, a lighter shade — can still be seen on ancient Irish flags and was used on armbands and flags by members of the Irish Citizen Army, whose 1916 Easter Rising attempted to end British rule. But the use of green on St. Patrick's Day began during the 1798 Irish Rebellion, when the clover became a symbol of nationalism and the "wearing of the green" on lapels became regular practice. The green soon spread to uniforms as well. That evolution, combined with the idea of Ireland's lush green fields, eventually made blue a thing of the past."



As an Irishman, that comes as a surprise. But it means that it is perfectly possible that amongst emigrant Irish communities the association of blue with an Irish heritage survived and continues to survive long after it has died away in Ireland. This happens. On this side of the Atlantic we (or at least the older generations) criticise Americans for using 'good' as an adverb as in 'I'm feeling good' rather than 'I'm feeling well' when, in fact, good was used in this sense here until a few hundred years ago and we changed its usage. The change simply didn't catch on in North America. Now we are adopting, or reverting to, the American usage.



Sometimes things are not black and white. We need to listen very carefully to what people say and try to understand where they are coming from before we indulge in name calling. And that applies to both sides of this discussion.

Well said GM. I've heard of quite a few traditions (practices, spellings and use of certain words) which travelled to early America with the settlers which fell out of use on this side of the pond. It is wise to listen and be willing to learn from each other!!

Cheers for the level-headed comment, I hold up my hands for starting the hassle but thanks for taking a balanced approach and not casting judgement. My comment was based on my own observations of what colour is pre-dominant in Ireland today, but I'm interested to read what you found on google if you can remember the website? For my own reading, no interest in continuing a debate here

It was an article, the second item that came up. Frankly, I was surprised - my starting position (as a born and bred resident Irishman) would have been the same as yours. I think you ran aground on a cultural reef I have hit myself in the past. I understood you hadn't meant to cause any offence.

Yeah sure you know yourself, I wasn't trying to ruin anyone's day, just speaking straight. I think maybe I'm the product of growing up with Roy Keane as my hero lol

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Hello Giggles. I was born and raised in Ireland and I understood exactly what you were saying. Unlike truecelt, I know the national colour of my home country is St. Patrick Blue. I also had no problem understanding that you weren't saying you are the authority and we all have to celebrate as you do. You wrote a good post on YOUR traditions handed down through your Irish family. Sorry to see someone was so thin-skinned and called you a plastic paddy, that was truly uncalled for. You didn't say, far as I can see, that anything is widely practiced .... you simply gave us a look into the way you celebrate in your household. It doesn't take much to see you were writing about your own celebration. It amazes me when I see someone who professes to be well educated not be able to understand a simple yet interesting post and they decide to school you. Lol, he looks quite foolish to those of us who know our national colour. And by the way, my parents and relatives who still live in Ireland celebrate very much as you do.

*smiles at AF* He certainly gets my vote for "goon of the day on EP". I'm a lot older than either you or Giggles and my old Ma was 100% Irish. She wore St. Patrick Blue and had many of the old customs Giggles mentioned. The very young don't seem to understand that they have actually taken on the customs of immigrants to the U.S. The green beer, the dyed rivers, the wearing green would be anathema to the Old Ones. They quietly celebrated St. Patrick's Day by going to the local pub, that's true, but it was a family affair and had nothing to do with wearing green jerseys and swilling green beer. As for his name calling? How sad but I suppose that's how he gets his jollies here each day. You're right, HE IS DISMISSED!

Lol, you and AF have "dismissed" and voted ..... love it! Did ya give him the EP F.U.Party Salute??? omg, roflmbo

Dismissed....I tire of your nonsense.

I couldn't agree with you more, Miss Giggles!! My mother was born and raised in Ireland and her traditions she passed down to me are the same as those your Irish family passed on to you. Look at it this way (I do!)..... some people just have to show their butt and brag that we aren't really Irish and they call us the very names they are offended by and DON'T wish to be called. They are blisters on the backside of life and to be ignored. He should do a bit of searching through his own ancestry before spouting lessons and calling you names. Lol, he gets my vote for "goon" of the day on EP. Had the miscreant bothered to speak to you before commenting, he'd have understood these are old traditions passed on from our ancient ones and we honor them. He is "dismissed" as far as I"m concerned, ignore him.

So true, AF, you hit the nail on the head. I didn't "read about Irish history".... I learned from the Old Ones and I listened and learned the traditions. Thank you, I know you understand ;)

Look closely at what I said before fussing about the color blue. I didn't say everyone in Ireland "wears" blue, I said the St. Patrick blue is the color given as National color of Ireland. Unless someone changed it, it still is. The colors of the flag are secondary. None of us said we are an authority on those living in Ireland....we said we practice the customs handed down through generations of our Irish ancestors. You were very rude and called me a plastic paddy. Not an attack?

As I've already said I apologise to you for what was deemed an attack, I was just giving an honest, if somewhat direct, opinion. I wasn't actually calling you a plastic paddy, you're very sincere and your Irishness is as valid as anyone else, it obviously means a lot to you and I love to see that. The only issue I have, which I'm not going to budge on, is that you said blue is the "national" colour of Ireland. My observation living in Ireland today is that it's not. It may well be that blue once was the national colour, though I've read things that dispute that also, but that's neither here nor there, as I see it right now in 2012 green is the national colour. But in the end it's a small issue, it's just a colour after all. I realise I've stirred a lot of hassle for you and you dont deserve that and while the condescending tone of some people is wrong, the truth is I could definitely have chosen my words more carefully

plenty of black irish living in and around dublin. I was born in galway and now live in liverpool and can understand your pride in being irish, I will always be irish wherever I live. chara

Ah, but you're probably a black protestant, WiB, an expression that is all too familiar. There are various myths about Spanish sailors. One is that they raped and impregnated local women, another that they settled and intermarried. As for the Armada, I think the truth is that the sailors who were washed ashore when their ships floundered were robbed and slaughtered but I'll check that. I may be doing us an injustice.

the only thing black about me GM is my underwear (sometimes!) ... lol ... but I jest ... I found a site which has some interesting theories ... don't know how well researched it is ... but intriguing ... http://www.darkfiber.com/blackirish/

Hi Giggles. The term "Black Irish" is not one I've heard before. You are meaning the fair skin, dark eyes and dark hair I assume? Maybe it's a term used in the USA. Here in Ireland I've not heard it used, but perhaps it's just not common around here. I from England originally but live in the West of Ireland these days (for the past six years) not far from Galway. There are lots of people with dark hair around which is always reckoned to have come from the Spanish Armada. There are quite a few people around this area who have Irish as their first language too which is interesting and it gives their English a wonderful lilt when spoken. It's a lovely part of the world ... I recommend a visit!!

I've heard this term used (I'm from up top) :)

Hahaha, exactly my girl !! I never try to speak a language I know nothing about cause I'd be caught in a heartbeat ;) Google translators are good, but mostly for one word here or there.

HUGS AND SMILES ......YOU'RE PRETTY AWESOME YOURSELF ;)

Love you!!!!!

*giggle-giggle at the first comment* Sounds like something I'd try, but would feel too stupid if caught out. =P

You're so awesome, Mom! =D

Lol, Miss Dragon, you just never know, I could be a bit Transylvanian. I often feel like Dracula came to dinner and stayed! You know I will help in any way that I can. I love researching through family histories!!!



Miss AE, YIPPEE, I love history lessons and this was great. Yep, I have read the same about the "tiny" Britons, Scots, and Irish..... I got an EXTRA dollop of "shortness" out of the deal!! The search for the Celts spans across the globe it seems. I know that Miss AF is Spanish Celt. To the north in Spain was a fairly large congregation of them by all accounts from archeologists. Teehee.... I figure that's why I am soooooooo attracted to the Butterscotch of it all..... must be a couple of them in the fam.



Thank you both for your comments and Bright Blessings to you!

Despite our disparate backgrounds, my sisters, our commonality seems to be Ireland! My maternal great grandmother was from Gallway and as I research it looks like my Dad's people were from the north, probably Ulster Co. Hence, my parents perpetual bickering, lol! I think that Katfather's comments are probably true as the research I have done says that the native Britons and Irish and Scots were all small and dark....splains why we're so small, MsG! The ever wandering Celts were the light-skinned, light-haired and light-eyed people that wandered onto the islands and decided to settle. Some of my research states that the Celts originated in central Europe around what is now Austria but there has been some archeological evidence that has placed them in central Asia as well. The Celts had a unique burial style and of course the red hair gives them away. There are Celtic burials in as far away as modern day Ukraine. Archeologists are trying to determine whether the Celts originated there and were known as the ancient Scythians or whether they traded along the Silk Road. Little history lesson for the day, lol! :)

The last comment tickled me, you are the fairest of the fair! If I didn't know better, I'd say you were "Transylvanian" little Giggles ;) You must help me with my search for my Irish ancestors, you know so many paths to reach back for information and I'd so appreciate it. My daughter and I , of late, wish to know my mother's family. Bright blessings and love, DragonM

Lol, Smurfymurfy, no offense was taken. I think, perhaps "Black Irish" is more of a common term here where I live in the U.S. My Grandmother came from County Clare in Ireland and I've traced our lineage back to find Spanish names (hence the term Black Irish).... we have the dark hair and dark brown eyes of the Spanish but the fair complexion of the beautiful Irish. Blessings for your day and thank you for your comments ;) Giggles

Oh sorry you said above that you have "a fair complexion" i was wondering there for a minute, thought I missed an entire sector of our population, yeah the Irish ethnicities can be so easily traced that I'm sure you have found exactly where you have come from, Before this post I've never heard of the expression "Black Irish" though....learn something new everyday! xo

When you say 'black Irish' do you mean you are black?! I don't mean this in a racist way or anything, I'm the furthest thing from a racist I'm just confused as to what you mean? What part of Ireland are you from exactly? I have yet to meet a black person who's lineage goes back that far within Ireland, and I'm born and bread here.... xo

Thank you so much for your comment, I love it when I meet someone else who has studied their heritage and knows something besides "leprechauns and wearing green", lol. Like your Dad, my Dad and his brother looked very Spanish when summer rolled around. I have the dark hair and eyes, but I have the fair Irih complexion and don't tan at all!

I was fascinated by them dying their skin purple to go to war.... hmm...I would imagine that was a scary sight! Thanks for sharing this "Cousin" :) beannaithe ort ....

My father was as Black Irish as they come. Many a time while working in Mexico he was mistaken as a native with his dark skin and deep black hair.

While I do believe a small amount of the Black Irish come from the Irish's ever love of the five finger discount and the supreme ''sale'' taken advantage of in 1588, my own research suggest that most of them come from a lot earlier. My families recorded history goes back a very long ways and even in the 1400s my family members are described as ''dark skinned'' (of course, they're also described as ''dark hearted'' too, but I haven't the time to talk about that here..Thank God.) When the modern Celt came to Erie, according to their legends, an older people were already there (yes, besides the Leprechauns). we know now that's true, and they are known now as the ''Picts'', a race of people who lived at one time all around the Mediterranean. I, like many other historians, believe that the Black Irish dark skin comes mostly from them, since they were described as a ''Dark people'' (Sometimes even darker. When going to war, they used to dye their skin purple. Guess they were too scared of being misplaced if they did green) This seems very possible to me. Lord knows we screwed everybody..

Thank you for your story ''Cousin''

Thank you newfriend1, I will be sure to look him up :)

one of Ireland fav sons is a soccer player call Paul Mc Grath known as the "black peal of Innochior" the man is a ledgend in Ireland. Look him up

Sounds like fun revisiting your childhood memories, hope you have a wonderful time. There really is no place like home :) Thank you for your comment ! Blessed be....