I believe that God created science & that the "spiritual" is actually science too.
foxness foxness
36-40, F
29 Responses Jun 3, 2015

Depends upon how you define science. Modern science only came recently around 17th century or so and started calling everything that has empirical evidence as scientific. In reality, science was referred to as :

"For our purpose, science may be defined as ordered knowledge of natural phenomena and of the relations between them." William C. Dampier-Whetham, "Science", in Encyclopædia Britannica, 11th ed. (New York: 1911)"

So ... believing that there is a natural phenomena such as soul/spirit, is indeed very scientific in nature.

If your right why are so many god people afraid of it?

Their faith is shaky or their minds are closed or they just haven't realized or a combination of all three.

Agreed

They aren't afraid of Science. And if they are, they probably don't know what Science is. Seems to be more of a personal problem rather than an ideological problem.

There is a trilogy of books written by a scientist by the name of Tom Campbell, titled "My Big T O E", (Theory of Everything) that has an interesting point of view...

Thank you :-)

And the people created God cause without them no one would know of his existence.

Lol that's a cool way of looking at it! Except I actually believe all life knows God, humans are the only animals separated because of our innate knowledge of good & evil.

People simply not know of God, but they just feel his presence around themselves. Humans how you said were separated, not just of knowing the difference good & evil, but simply to show supiority and evolution.

hm.... interesting theory.

Just sayin, how could God have created anything if there was no time for him to live, before he created time, no time existed until he created it and time began, right? Wrong. If there was no time before God created time, there was no time therefore nothing could happen and he couldn't have made time. And who made God? Did he just appear? Because if you could say that than why not everything else just appear like God... Just saying lol. Just an opinion...

The latest theory is that time doesn't even exist as it's own thing.

Why couldn't God have created everything and time being part of that creation? Why would he need to be "dependent" upon time? And what makes us think that just because there was no time before time, nothing couldn't have happen?

Could it not be that time is a material concept, and God is non-material in nature and hence, time doesn't apply to him? Could it not be that time represents a limitation (i.e, if there was no time, there was no God), and God is limitless?

Just something to think about...

May be it's true

I believe that God is everything that is, and created the universe out of him/it self...

So, he created everything eh? He created time. That means before he created time, no time existed. Aha! If no time existed than there was no time for him to ever appear or ever create anything. How about God being real. If he just got there than obviously he appeared out of nowhere and that means anything else can appear out of no where so maybe everything appeared out of nowhere with God. See what I'm getting at? Just an opinion though.

Hi Lucy. The latest studies are pointing to the possibility that there actually is no time at all. At least not the way we experience it. It's just an illusion. It solves a lot of other problems that we haven't been able to figure out for a loooong time.

U got it right. God created the time. But the next conclusion is not really correct. If He created the time than He should has plenty of time in our time mind. It's designed and if we accept it then so many things much easy to explain. If I tell to somebody the direction to get from one city to another and that person will say, but there are rivers, and trees and mountains on the way and we have to calculate that with acceptance of all the parameters and try to keep approach more and more precisely and I have to wait when the calculation will be ready... Well it will be never ready. Lol. I mean the phenomenon of fractal. Somewhere we have to stop and make a simple approach. What I mean with this is the truth doesn't have to be hidden behind complicated formulas and explanations. If we suggest there is a Designer - God behind the creation around us then many things would be much easy to explain.

Why did he create cancer? Don't you think it's a bit cruel for God to make it that some people are born with cancer and it's all because everything existed the way it does... Cause God made it the way it was

Does He? Do we know that cancer was created from the beginning of the world? lol. Or may be we created the cancer try to make this world a better place to live? U know every medicine has some side effect and if not then it's simply not known .. yet. ..

If we created something that means God didn't create EVRYTHING... Lol.

If u wrote this message that's mean I didn't write anything? 😉

What if we both did it? We created it ... but God created us ... and we wouldn't have been here if He didn't create us ... so in essence, we did create something ... and so did He

What makes a person give the right to choose whether he should have cancer or not? Or for that matter, what makes a person give the right to even EXIST? If he did have the right, he might as well be the creator ... but he isn't; he is the created. Since he is created and never even had the right to exist, nor does he have the right to complain of why he had cancer... or why there are earthquakes.

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I don't understand......need more data

If you're interested in understanding, it may help to read all the comments. I went into more detail with others.

I was hoping to be a little more personal

I know, I'm sorry. I just don't have all the time in the world. Maybe some other time. But if you can't wait, you know what to do. :-)

maybe our universe was created, but what makes you think it was God? who is God? why only one?

I don't know exactly what is physically on the other side of things. But I believe it's there. And as a Christian, I can see how it's the God I know. But I'm not arguing that it's the God I know, it could be someone else's idea of God or something else.

But that's not my point I'm making here. My point is that spiritual Is not only real, it is physical & it's even measurable using science if we developed the technology to measure it.

What is the alternative? And what makes someone believe it wasn't God?

Like the entire universe is one giant machine?

To that I say: Amen!

I think that contemplating science can also be spiritual.

Yes!!! It actually is for me.

I don't understand

If you're interested in understanding, it may help to read all the comments. I went into more detail with others.

I've actually often wondered this myself It seems that mankind has divided itself between those that believe in the Devine and those that believe in science but why not both? Why can't science be the explanation of divinity? Even if "science" exists it doesn't negate the idea of a higher power Does it? Personally I'm not religious by any means but I do believe in higher powers just do to the simple facts Higher power(s) must exist otherwise how did we get here? Even for all the mathematics and calculations and molecular infrastructure studies conducted 'WHY' is a question we can never TRULY know Therefore Faith (in whatever form) is mandatory Faith that we are meant to be here and faith in our own level of awareness and importance Much like curiosity in human-nature Its undeniable We've questioned it, studied it, accessed it in practice and theory but why does it exist? Survival? We could still be living in caves today with doors and fire pits if we chose So why do we go above and beyond the call of survival? Why do we do what we do? I have a million and one hypotheses but I wouldn't fight my neighbor into believing them In fact, perhaps the foundation of different out looks and beliefs is simultaneously the foundation of curiosity? To give humankind the gift of conversation, exploration, quest and pride of conquest?
"A smart man knows the right answer. A brilliant man knows the right question."

PS I like your style!

The reason it can't be both is because most Atheist only believe what can be proven. God cannot be proven. There are no facts that support the belief of a "creator", it's all just faith. I will believe in "God" when someone can prove to me that there is one.

It's not that God "cannot be proven". Only that he/she HAS NOT been proven.

Now you're just arguing semantics. It's the same thing. There is no proof of God, so Atheists don't believe in God. I clearly said that, if proof is found, I will believe.

I agree with you. There is not point in arguing. I'm just stating my opinion, as others have done. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I just don't see the harm in having a civil discussion about it.

I'm happily Atheist, so I'm not obsessing over anything. As I stated, if it's proven that God exists, I'll gladly believe. Until then, I don't. Simple as that. I can see that my opinions aren't wanted by the OP though, so I'll take my leave. I enjoy a good debate, but some people don't.

Again, I was never arguing anything. If a Christian can state their opinions, than an Atheist can as well. Stating my opinions and having a discussion about them isn't an "argument". My best friend is going to divinity school to become a pastor, so trust me when I say that I'm not trying to force anyone to believe anything.

Clearly your meaning is getting taken out of context then. When you say "I find that there are too many arguments in this field. I cannot quite get it. People shouldn't be forced to believe or not to believe" to the only person you're talking to, it does sound like you are saying that I'm trying to force my beliefs on others. But, I'll take your word, and I apologize if I at all sounded defensive. As I stated, I just merely wanted to state my opinions as others have.

No apology necessary. It's hard to discuss things over text. Without tone and inflection, it's easy to misunderstand.

I just want you to know that although I'm Christian, I am more likely to argue fervently with hateful fundamentalists in my own religion than peaceful Atheists. I'm not anti-Atheist & any "argument" I address with you I mean in in the lesser sense of the word: debate. Your opinions are welcome here. <3

No, I understand. I only point out the semantics in this case specifically because my original point was that if we had the technology, we would find that the spiritual is physical. Until we have proof, yes it's faith. I am just optimistic that science will never disprove God precisely because God physically exists in nature. My belief is that we can only access God at the quantum level & he/she likely exists behind the sheer veil of our thin reality. Observation changes the outcome of things at the quantum level...perhaps faith has an impact as well.

I love that explanation We really do see things quite similarly even though I don't believe in God as a sole divinity (if you do)

Good point. We don't have to forget that every science is based on a elementary proposition. Take a geometry for instance. It's based on elementary propositions we have simply accept. Or may be to believe in it? No one will able to answer us why from one point to another we can drive a line or from one point to circle a circle. The foundation of mathematic will lead us to ability make complex formulas and calculations. But imagine that the basic, the elementary approach was wrong? But we have to believe in it to be able to explain the complex formulas. What would be if we just accept the basic elementary fact about the Designer, or The Creator?

Precisely We build on fundamental ideas but questioning everything is crucial to our world

Well if you notice I never mention anything about "God" b/c I find the idea a bit limited I do have a hard time believing in things I can't see or prove However, sometimes the lack of an answer is answer enough I don't consider myself an atheist b/c I do believe in bigger more powerful entities than myself Science can tell us how but not why Yet the fact that the sun beams brightly every morning, the sky is blue, the grass is green and the day begins, is reason enough for me to wake up and make the most of it That to me is all the "proof" I need I can understand the confusion when I speak of divinity "of, like, or God" However my idea of "God" isn't a sole being Its a long explanation that would take up a whole other conversation so in short when I speak of the Devine I'm referring to stronger, higher, unanswered questions in power and energy Plus, I think that in a lot of ways by agreeing to disagree and accepting others beliefs as a different truth we make ourselves all stronger Speaking in terms of proof I've never seen an opinion be 100% correct or unbiased Meaning, perhaps it's best to learn from teach other than separate or argue
"The wisest of us know that we know nothing."

Faith is the pre-cursory element towards building an ideology that you will live your life by. And you’d ask why would someone care to have an ideology to live the life by? Well, just like curiosity is part of our innate nature, which has obviously triggered people like us to ask these questions, so is our nature of benefiting from everything.

If your view of this world is material, then the answer gets relatively easier. You adopt a lifestyle and an ideology which gives you the benefits of a material life. You can rely on worldly and scientific principles and live your life based on the ideals established on empirical evidence.

On the other hand, if your view of this world is non-material in nature, i.e., you believe that there is a non-material element within your life and the universe as a whole (however remote chance it may be), then the answer gets more complicated. E.g., previously, you may have just cared about your body. Now, you care about your soul as well. And since soul is non-material in nature, material dimensions of time and space are not applicable. Hence your approach must be beyond whatever you prove from observations. You must have proof from other sources of knowledge as well. This source could be rational in nature (e.g., philosophical proofs), or knowledge by “presence” (e.g., you know you are here, no one needs to teach/prove that to you), or knowledge by acquisition (i.e., if you believe in some divinity, books, or prophets).

Once you’ve established a view of the world and your life, then you look at the different sources of knowledge to see which one will give you an ideology and a lifestyle guide that gives you maximum possible benefit. It is only after you’ve established the "world-view" that you can search for a successful ideology and life by it. That essentially is Faith.

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You are an idiot

Does calling me an idiot make you feel smarter? Because it doesn't actually make you smarter. (It doesn't make you sound smarter, either.)

Yeah idiot, I feel like Einstein right now, lol

Lol good for you! 😂

What do you think Adam and Eve looked like?

Humans.

As a geologist, and a believer I couldn't agree with you more.

"God" didn't create science. Science is the study of things. Humans created that. Humans also created the idea of "God" in order to cope with the unknown. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I wonder how open minded a person of faith can truly be.

I am referring to all of nature, the mysterious & the explained when I say "science". I say "science" to simplify the message, which seems to be obvious to most.

And yes, it takes a very open mind to have faith that we will understand spirituality through science one day. My optimism doesn't corrupt the scientific process in any way, so there's really nothing for you to argue. It's simply my prediction.

You can wonder all you want about me, but unless you get to know me, you will never truly know.

I wasn't arguing. Just stating my opinion, as you have stated yours. If you're using the term "science" to refer to nature, then you're using the term incorrectly. That's not what science is. Just say nature or life, or something along those lines. There's no point in changing the meaning of a word to fit your thoughts. So, if you are open minded, are you open minded enough to doubt the existence of God? It takes a true open mind to question what we've been taught.

You're right, perhaps I do need to dumb it down. But it's simply semantics. When I said that "science" was created by a supreme being, the logical implication is that we are discussing the science BEHIND the universe, the discovered AND the undiscovered; not specifically the "scientific method". Science is a word that has more than one straightforward application. So I'm not merely referring to "nature" & "life" in the classical sense, but to ALL the invisible physics, math & science that has held everything together eons before we discovered the "scientific method" to make sense of it all. For instance, Einstein didn't "create" the scientific fact that E=MC2, he discovered it. The equation existed in nature before he was aware of it. My belief is that God created the science of E=MC2. I hope that helps clear up any confusion.

I have been open minded enough to question the existence of God. His existence is often more frightening to me than it is comforting. But no, I don't doubt God. The deeper my knowledge of science, the more obvious it is to me that a supreme being has created our entire reality.

Now I wonder if you are open minded enough to consider that God may exist. I predict that God is so physically real that we may finally have access to scientific knowledge of God through quantum physics or even string theory. My whole point is that I believe the "spiritual" IS physical. Although we have yet to understand it, I believe we are closer than ever before. With quantum physics, I think we are on the right path.

Its a fine tuned universe, in my opinion. Therefore a Fine Tuner created everything from the nothingness of a singularity.

You're entitled to that belief. I disagree, but I understand why some people believe there must be a "creator" of some kind. I believe that "God" or whatever you believe created the universe was created by humans to explain all of the unknowns - even more so to make coping with death more bearable. I believe that we are just a speck in the universe compared to the greater picture and that the universe has functioned and will function just fine without us. I also, of course, believe in science and that the universe was created on it's own (right now the theory is the Big Bang, but that hasn't been proven) long before humans even existed.

Created on it's own. Which would mean to universe was a necessary existence .. as in, it isn't a contingent existent requiring a creator per se? That is a claim. How would someone prove that. I am not belittling the idea of how vast the universe is and how small of a unit we are compared to the billions of galaxies, but how would you prove that to be the case?

I'm not even sure what you're asking. Prove what case? That there are billions of galaxies? I'm pretty sure scientists are doing a good job of that on their own, so I'll leave that to them. This conversation ended, for me, a long time ago. I'm not going to argue with a creationist. I believe what I believe. Let it go.

I'm not sure why it's not clear. The universe creates itself. The fact there is so much out there doesn't say anything about universe creating itself. It seems illogical to say something.

Was just curious to see how one gets satisfied by saying they'll figure it out when there is logical proof out there for someone who believes in a creator. But then again I guess you find peace in that.

Not holding on to anything. Just curious.

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That is my conclusion too:)

I also know the answer to "which came first the chicken or the egg", but
that's scientific as well.

So do I. ;-)

Could be....

Why do you believe in a God? The Big Bang created everything we know, and no 'God' created this, it came from nothing, as many things in science do. Man created the idea of a God

Did you know there is a new Theory that there was no Big Bang? It solves the mathematical problem of the Big Bang.

Interesting, never heard of this! Must look it up. Very possible that the universe had no beginning, after all

That is exactly what they are thinking! :)

Here ya go for a start :) - http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

As soon as you use the "term" God, it's already limited. Which God are you referring about, there is no universal God. It's always someone own definition of God.

It doesn't matter.

A "supreme being". Call him/her what you want.

how can it be a being. What if it is just an "It".

Then we will find out.

That's the whole point. You cannot explain Quantum physics to a crocodile because a crocodiles way of thinking and dimensions are entirely different. His world is much different from our's and he don't feel nor understand us. Unfortunately here we are the crocodiles, when people start assuming that they are not crocodile. There comes the blood shed.

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Well said

Oh well explain dinosaurs then

Dinosaurs were created before man.

In which bible do you have that from

What are you talking about?

There's no dinosaurs in the bible God made man who made dinosaurs?

There's lots of things that happened that weren't in the Bible. Including the dinosaurs.

No **** but how did God create the earth in 7 days when dinosaurs were there Mullins of years before he created it

Do you think that days have always been 24 hours long or that our earth always rotated as it does now? Not saying that I have the answer, only that there are unknowns we need to respect. We don't know everything. But we do know some things, which we also must respect. We know that dinosaurs existed with or without explanation & that it was left out of the Bible. It doesn't mean dinosaurs are in disagreement with the Bible.

No bible mentions dinosaurs. But they were here before humans so it's all a crock of poop really

And yes we never had different length days or a different orbit etc etc either where you got that notion from defies logic lmfao

Oh wow, well I guess pulling data from NASA defies YOUR logic! LMFAO

http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/earth/6Page58.pdf

The bible mentions creatures that are obviously extinct, but there's no way to know if they were dinosaurs. But now we know that birds are descended from dinosaurs, so in a way, they are still here. That doesn't make anything a "crock of poop" - and, gross.

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Material wouldn't be without the spiritual and vice versa.

Ameen

I'm curious. Are you open-minded enough to consider the possibility that God didn't create science? That man created it? That "God" doesn't exist, at least not the one I think you're referring to?

Lol man created the laws of physics & the quantum mechanics & all the possible universes? No. Man did not create science. Humans only discovered it. Humans created technology, but not science. Science was there all along.

So, I guess the answer to my question is....no. ;)

And for the record, I didn't say that man created the laws of physics, I said he created science. Science is the study of things, it's not the things themselves. Science is not technology either. Science is science. And it hasn't been there all along.

lol Science is science! Perfect!

Semantics. However, my implications were obvious.

Foxy chick ur one hot chick and awesome and you correct xx macro all the way lol

Thanks Georgiboy ;-)

Corrrct!

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Well, there Ya go. It's all settled. ;)