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Human Rights

I used to not be very passionate about this subject until it actually affected me. If you asked me a year ago how I felt on abortion, I'd say that I was pro-choice but wouldn't have an abortion. This was because as women we are taught that it is our duty to have and birth any child our womb conceives. This is completely unfair for women who cannot afford a child to be forced to be pregnant then have to tearfully give her baby up, and perhaps never know if her baby is safe or happy with its new parents.
We live in a society that thinks that the only heroic choice for a pregnant woman in bad situation is to have her baby. No. Its not. People will usually say that you should have the baby no matter what because  "Life starts at conception." and"Abortion is murder".  Others will tell you that having an abortion because you can't afford to have a baby is selfish. Its way more selfish to have a baby because you'd feel better about yourself. I cannot bring myself to have a child just because I need to feel like a hero.
Another thing I can't stand is when people say "Abortion isn't contraception!" Or assume that the woman having an abortion is irresponsible. You know what? I've know women who have used their birth control pills everyday, perfectly and still got pregnant. It's possible for them to fail. Further more, a lot of people use condoms which can fail easily with out the users knowing. Since you can't get birth control for free, not a lot of people have this option.
Much of the stigma surrounding abortion comes from people who don't want women to enjoy their bodies in a sexual way and take control over their sexual organs. They need women to be centered around motherhood and having children. We aren't fetus incubators. We have aspirations thoughts and feelings.
LivDragonfly LivDragonfly 22-25, F 14 Responses Dec 4, 2010

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Very well said. Forcing pregnancy on a woman, can be very harmful for both the woman and the fetus she's carrying. Why force pregnancy on a woman, if she's not feeling up to it? Or if she feels that she can't handle it? I wouldn't do anything that makes me feel uncomfortable. Especially if it has to do with a decision that I would have to live with for the rest of my life. I terminated a pregnancy 6 years ago. It was the right decision. So I know how important it is for abortions to stay legal.

"This is completely unfair for women who cannot afford a child to be forced to be pregnant then have to tearfully give her baby up, and perhaps never know if her baby is safe or happy with its new parents."
Forced to be pregnant?? Damn that sneaky embryo for slipping into her room at night as she slept and creeping up into her uterus! The nerve of that little monster! Oh what's that? The woman's (and her partner's) OWN actions are why that embryo and then fetus is there? They did everything required to make a new human and are now surprised that a new human resulted? Do they have rocks in their head, not understand the relationship between cause and effect or just don't want to take responsibility for their own actions? Or some combination of the three?


"We live in a society that thinks that the only heroic choice for a pregnant woman in bad situation is to have her baby. No. Its not. People will usually say that you should have the baby no matter what because "Life starts at conception." and"Abortion is murder"."
What is more heroic and responsible? Taking responsibility for your own actions and carrying the baby to term like an adult? Or being so irresponsible and selfish as to have it killed off for your own convenience? People say "life begins at conception", yes, "people" say that if you mean the scientific community, the medical community and any embryology textbook. That's who says it. It's not an opinion that life begins at conception. It's a basic fact like the earth goes around the sun, that's not an opinion. "Abortion is murder", well let's see... Murder is the deliberate killing of a human being without exculpatory factors (self-defense, defense of the lives of those around you). Abortion, for any other reason than the mother's life being at stake, is the deliberate killing of a human being without exculpatory factors. Please do tell me what is the difference between deliberate homicide without exculpatory factors and deliberate homicide without exculpatory factors. Abortion is legalized murder. Murder with a legal veneer and couched in euphemisms to spare the feelings of the women who get them.

"Others will tell you that having an abortion because you can't afford to have a baby is selfish."
Abortion is literally THE most selfish thing a person can do. You can't afford to have the baby? As in pay for its prenatal care? That's what Medicaid is for, it pays for 100% of a poor woman's pregnancy-related care and postnatal care. Can't afford to raise it? That's a different story, either put it up for adoption or leave the newborn at one of the countless "safe haven" locations across the U.S., in all fifty states. Drop it off in the arms of a nurse, intern, sometimes even a janitor or a fireman or policeman and walk away, no questions asked. Dropping off an unwanted kid doesn't get much more hassle-free than that.

"Its way more selfish to have a baby because you'd feel better about yourself. I cannot bring myself to have a child just because I need to feel like a hero."
I don't think that's really an issue. Nobody is saying you should carry the baby to term because it will make you a hero and you'll get your picture in the paper or something. People are saying carry the baby to term because it's a HUMAN BEING. Same deal as "Hey, don't drop that newborn on its head or let it fall down that elevator shaft! It's a human being, not a sack of potatoes!" Not "hey, don't kill that unborn human because you should be a HERO!!" I don't get where you're coming from with this. What could possibly BE more selfish than saying "Yeah I know abortion is killing a human being but I'd rather be able to stay out until 3 a.m. and drink my a** off instead of changing poopy diapers... poopy diapers are no fun! Let's go get its little head sucked off its body." ??


"Another thing I can't stand is when people say "Abortion isn't contraception!" Or assume that the woman having an abortion is irresponsible. You know what? I've know women who have used their birth control pills everyday, perfectly and still got pregnant. It's possible for them to fail."
A lot of things are possible that aren't very likely probability-wise. Overwhelmingly more women get pregnant and get abortions because they either 1.) didn't bother to use contraceptives at all or 2.) didn't bother to use them correctly than 3.) get pregnant and get an abortion because they used contraceptives correctly and darn it! They just didn't work.


"Further more, a lot of people use condoms which can fail easily with out the users knowing. Since you can't get birth control for free, not a lot of people have this option."
Condom failure is comparatively rare compared to them working properly, like upper 90s in percentage of working the way they're advertised. Birth control isn't free but condoms are at the health department. And as I said, condoms have a low failure rate, it's not like it's a 50-50 chance or something, come on now.


"We aren't fetus incubators."
Again, I am seeing exactly zero recognition of one little six-syllable word "responsibility". See you want to skip completely over the matter of HOW that fetus got there in the first place, WHO put it there, WHOSE decisions put it there. That fetus is exactly where, biologically speaking, it's supposed to be. When you know that the process WXY, no matter how much humanity is able to thankfully short-circuit it for pleasurable purposes, is designed to produce Z result don't be surprised if Z is what happens. And you sure don't get to try to foist the blame on the fetus for your own decisions like it's using your organs without your permission as I've heard some pro-abortion jackasses actually try to argue.

"Much of the stigma surrounding abortion comes from people who don't want women to enjoy their bodies in a sexual way and take control over their sexual organs."
Not for that many people outside of say the hierarchy of the Catholic church. Almost all the "stigma" attached to abortion comes from it resulting in the death of an unborn human being. Not wanting anyone, women or men, to have the "right" to have their unborn human progeny killed off for their convenience has nothing to do with controlling anyone's organs. Please! You do realize that if abortion was made illegal for all cases other than the mother's life being at stake, a tiny amount of abortions, that women would have the same rights regarding the unborn as men do? Isn't feminism supposed to be about equality? Or at least claim to be? Clearly it's really not about having equal rights as men, as women already have long since had equality. It's about having special privileges above and beyond what men have. Sorry ladies, I don't think you should have extra special privileges of deciding the life or death of another human being any more than a man should. Equality is equality, not female supremacy. Having a uterus doesn't make you a queen with the power of life or death over your subjects.

This is addressed to TsavoHunter, a gigantic p.u.s.s.y. who not only can't debate worth a damn, not only runs from a debate but blocks someone so they can't respond. Here is what I just was about to post when I discovered you blocked me so again, LivDragonfly this isn't for you but for TsavoCunter:I shall put it bluntly so EVERYONE can understand.The "my body, my choice" argument, "bodily autonomy" in other words, is relevant in matters pertaining to that woman's own body, e.g. to dye her hair or not to dye, to get a tattoo or not, to shave her armpits or not etc. etc. Bodily autonomy however doesn't apply to anyone ELSE's body besides a person's own. Thus she doesn't get a moral right to go up and tattoo someone else against their will, she can't shave someone else's armpits because they stink, she can't dye someone else's hair against their will etc. Thus "bodily autonomy" is a horses**t argument in regards to the abortion debate. Unless you're arguing that the fetus is a part of that woman's body, which would be arguing against long established science, medicine and plain old common sense, then there's no way even the person using the "bodily autonomy" excuse could even think it would apply as they're clearly talking about someone ELSE'S body.


And again, I not only support increasing the budgets for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, Section 8 vouchers etc. and returning tax rates on the wealthy to 1950s levels I would rather we s**tcan capitalism altogether and replace it with direct worker ownership of the businesses. You're not arguing with some Republican teabagger so you can put your straw man away.

If civil rights trump the life of an innocent why are late term abortions illegal and immoral? :)

That is your opinion that they are immoral. It's illegal because lawmakers passed it. Obviously you don't believe every law is moral, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But why are late term abortions not permitted by law if early term abortions are? What's the difference? :)

I don't know. I am not a lawmaker. Perhaps you should contact your local state representive and ask him or her why that is.

Fair enough. If I may ask, what is your feeling on late term abortions. Do you think they should be legalized? :)

I think late-term abortions are illegal because they are so much riskier than first and even second trimester abortions. I read somewhere that the risk to the woman goes up around 30% for each trimester. I'm sure there are other reasons, but I'm pretty certain that is one of them.

Late term abortions are illegal because the later a woman has an abortion, the more harm it can do to her. Legal abortions are safe. And if a woman has an illegal abortion, then she faces the risk of doing damage to her body or even death. It is important that abortions stay safe and legal to prevent more deaths. Women are not going to stop having abortions, if they become illegal. Women risk their lives having an illegal abortion. Abortion is a need.

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i have seen to many girls die growing up from back room jobs very much pro choice but i also do not think it shou;ld be used as a means of bith conrtol

No, it shouldn't because its tough to go through, but you have to keep in mind that birth control is far from 100%. There is no birth control that can be counted. The only way to not get pregnant is to not have sex, and thats not realistic. Just read the stories in the sexless marriage group. Its not a happy life.

We always had the right to forcibly remove trespassers from our homes. Why wouldn’t we extend that basic right to our bodies?<br />
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Why is it important to determine if a pregnancy happens because of failed contraception or just timing? We have dominion over our bodies.

exactly. I have the right to not give someone a kidney, just as I have a right to deny my body as a life support system to an embryo.

But if you killed that trespasser it would be murder - or perhaps the more accurate term is late term abortion :)

No, if I killed the trespesser it would be justifiable homicide.

I'm a pro-life woman who takes this stand not ba<x>sed on religion and certainly not because I want to see women as just human incubators. The thing is that the pro-life pov CAN be argued from a human rights perspective. As to why should the fetus be denied the basic human right to life? Which right is greater the right to life or the right to ones body? What are examples in society that can lead us to those conclusions? You are seriously stereotyping the pro-lifer as a stupid, misogynistic, bible thumping idiot and then turn around and say we are doing that to pregnant women. Most of us aren't. Yes, there is some male idiot out there for which it's true, however, it would also be true that there is some radical, hairy feminist who hates babies and men who is just as polarizing in her view.

Way to not stereotype.

What's even more curious is the fact that puppies don't have civil rights but if someone goes around killing them they get put in jail. So whose life is more valuable? A baby's or a puppy's? :)

How can someone who has never terminated a pregnancy, tell me what its like?

Any kind of contraception can fail, even vasectomy. So don't assume that because a woman got pregnant, she didn't use protection or used it in correctly. My aunt had a IUD, guess what, she got pregnant.

LOL Jiggy. I was going to say something, then I saw your avatar. 0/10 obvious troll is obvious.

Thank you...this is how I wish people could be. And to Aryies....it is NOT always a choice to have sex. i hate when people mark off pregnant teens or even women as "stupid" because they got pregnant. if you do not know them or the situation behind it, do not judge. I have had an abortion, and after doing so...i would warn the woman about the emotions that go along with it, but i would not advise against it or for it. it is everyones own decision.

while I am pro choice, I have to say if people would be more responsible when it comes to sex they wouldn't put themselves in the position to have to choose abortion. With all the different types of birth control out there, there's no excuse for not practicing safe sex.

yes yes and yes, don't have time honestly to read comments (sorry to be so rude), but greatly appreciated the story!

There are two things you have over looked, there is a reason why we say sex is for married people and the second, the baby's human rights, you is looking out for the precious child, afterall, children are a blessing from God. We need to stop punishing the babies for our enjoyment.

Exactly, RubyPoppy! The man who contributed his 'genetic material' to create the fetus in question is almost always left out of the equation by the ridiculous anti-choice crusaders. They are such hypocrites, because they pick on the physically weaker & more vulnerable person (i.e. the pregnant woman) and give not a thought to the man involved. It's absolutely hypocritical and disgusting.

Pro-Lifers decry being treated like human incubators but it's ok for men to be treated like ***** donors. So much for equal rights :)