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The Male Side

The male side of pro choice......

Woman says to a man...I am pregnant and you are the reason...

Man says I will pay for the abortion...

Woman says I want to keep the baby and you will help me pay for it.....

Man says No....I choose not to be a parent, and you can not make me...... My choice

A woman has a choice a man does not

singer1960 singer1960 46-50, F 57 Responses Jun 11, 2008

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People think that the law is about enforcing morality. It is NOT. It is about maintaining social order and ensuring a reasonable degree of safety for the populace.

Plus, the other side, when the father wants to keep the baby but the mother doesn't. Sigh. It's miserable all around.

I am sure that there will be other points, but as far as me...I think that for the moment this topic has been weel talked out.

You said it, WereTree and ladyloves!

I agree with whoever said you need to know who you are sleeping with before the subject of abortion ever arises. <br />
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I am a big proponent of open lines of communication. Perhaps that's why my boyfriend and I have lasted as long as we have and we have never had trust issues. We know we are both clean and though HIPAA says he can't know what goes on in my doctor's appointments, I say he has every right to know. If he ever went to the doctor (typical man!) I would know everything as well. <br />
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We discussed birth control before we ever started having sex, and he knew when I was unhappy with the pill and switched, and we waited until the pill would be in effect before resuming sex. We discuss EVERYTHING. He knows everything. There are no bait and switch tactics that might make him a father before he is ready. And because we have mutual respect for each other, I respect his wishes not to have a child now, and he respects my wishes not to have one either. We had sex together and we made the decision to abort together. But that decision was made long before we ever got pregnant. <br />
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It doesn't take condoms and birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy - it takes communication. You know how each other feels about the possibility of having a baby before you ever test positive. If you DON'T know how each other feels, you need to hash that out before you have sex. Plain and simple. <br />
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It's not about abstinence to prevent unwanted pregnancy or anything like that... if you are a dumbass and get yourself caught in the situation where your wishes to have or not have a child go unheard by your mate, you probably made the mistake of not communicating your wishes clearly. And you know if your communication is clear because everything else in the relationship would be perfectly clear. Women don't trap men - they trap themselves. If he doesn't insist on a condom, he has no say in the matter. <br />
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If he wears a condom and she tries to trap him by missing doses of her pill, it's another story. But with the condom, at least he's a little protected. <br />
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A lying scheming woman who skips her pill on purpose is the type of woman you need to be wearing a condom around anyway.<br />
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I think I have hit all the points I meant to hit. If not, I'll be back soon!

My husband was in the army and stationed in Korea in 79. Do you know what some of the gate guards would do when they got bored...They would take the condom packs and poke a pin hole in them. My huband would not do it, but you do have some children out there. (Meaning little boys with too much time on thei hands) The condoms were to prevent STD's...Some of those guys wound up with a longer stay in korea...had to make sure they were clean before they could go back to the states.<br />
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And Weretree there is other things other than AIDS...herpies, Clamidia, and other things that are not treatable...once you got it...you got it for life...watch word No Glove...No Love

My husband was in the army and stationed in Korea in 79. Do you know what some of the gate guards would do when they got bored...They would take the condom packs and poke a pin hole in them. My huband would not do it, but you do have some children out there. (Meaning little boys with too much time on thei hands) The condoms were to prevent STD's...Some of those guys wound up with a longer stay in korea...had to make sure they were clean before they could go back to the states.<br />
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And Weretree there is other things other than AIDS...herpies, Clamidia, and other things that are not treatable...once you got it...you got it for life...watch word No Glove...No Love

Of course a man has a choice!<br />
Never heard of condoms.....?

Like I have said before, the decision should be made by both parties, but in the end it is the woman's choice. I believe the father SHOULD be consulted before anything is done. However, there are circumstances where a woman made a not so good choice and has no way of contact. Is she supposed to track him down for his standpoint. More than not the guy prolly wouldn't want to deal with the situation period correct. Tell me what should she do then. It is HER body, so therefore HER choice. In normal settings, I hope the father is consulted for how he feels but sometimes it just isn't possible.

My last posts point was she knows he wants a child...she does nothing to prevent one...she does not want one...does not make her a brood mare. she can prevent pregancy, if she does not, and a child is produced then why should she prevent him from having a child...pregancy was not forced, it would not be rape...but why is it the woman who has all of the say if a man had a child.<br />
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and weretree remimber this you are sleeping with everyone that she has slept with...how do you know that she is clean....think about it

[[whips out a can opener]]<br />
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're suggesting that a woman has a right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term if there is no significant male presence to make that decision for her. How is it fair to treat a woman like an incubator because her partner 'always wanted a child'? And who cares how long term a relationship is? Being with a man for 'X' number of years does not make you his broodmare! This is so frustrating... <br />
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Personally, I think that people just need to be a little more careful about who they choose to sleep with. If I became pregnant, I would never make a decision about whether or not to abort without consulting my boyfriend, and he would support me no matter what I decided. <br />
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The day that men are able to bear children, they can decide whether or not to have an abortion. Please believe I don't say that with any scorn - I think that science is advancing rapidly and someday it will be possible.

No prob. hae like I said was just a thought. You are right about it being the woman choice iif it was a one night stand or shout tern relationship...but if long term and she always knew he wanted a child then that is a whole different can of worms that I am not wanting to open up

also, sorry for the double again, thanks singer, I just never really thought about taking it from her... our relationship is strained to nothing as it is already... But thats a different story...

OH def. I am not arguing that its a woman's right to choose for it is her body. But I do believe that a couple entering into a sexual relationship should be completely ready for anything. It something that shouldn't be taken lightly. We didn't even though it happened to us despite our efforts, our keeping each other on the same page is what got us through it. Are we still affected by our choice every day yes... but we did it together like it should be. In the end it is a woman's body to choose and if she isn't in a relationship with someone it is her sole choice on what to do unless she is in contact with the father but if you are in a relationship, what each person wants should be spoken about BEFORE continuing anything...

hae<br />
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I understand what you are saying, and sometimes life hands you difficult decisions even when you take precautions. <br />
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My point is, men will never have to carry a baby inside of them for nine months, and I don't feel like the choice should be theirs to make a woman carry one if she chooses not to, or to abort one that she wants to keep.<br />
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It is all just my humble opinion. Thankfully, I have never had an unplanned pregnancy, but I have been pregnant, twice, and it changed me in many ways, both physically and emotionally. I don't think I would ever want an abortion, personally, but I support a woman's right to choose since it is her body.

hae my niece went to court and got the support ordered to come to her when she was in school try it. might work. never know unless you try

also, I wasn't so lucky autimom. My mom used it for her own. Like I said it wasn't much so it wasn't going to make or break her either way.

Condoms are not the only form of BC and to put that responsibility solely on the man is wrong. The choice comes when he decides whether or not he is ready to deal with the consequences. I was on BC he used BC both failed so who's choice is it. Both of ours. He had a say, I had a say we came to the decision together BEFORE we even had sex and varified afterwords.

A man can't get pregnant, right? So therefore he will never have the choice to carry a baby in his body for nine months or to get an abortion. The choice for him to make is when it comes time to decide whether or not to put on a condom.

you know what, hae? I was in the exact situation as you. My mom did give me the check, however. It wasn't much, but it did really help me when I was a struggling student.

WAIT, I wasn't saying that one should not remain on giving the check over to the other if the child is mainly in that home. I am solely speaking of college students. The home of the child does need help to be maintained! Whether you are sending child support to the mother/father of a minor or not, you are going to have to deal with her making the decisions on where it goes. Because the world isn't filled with just single mothers, single fathers are out their too with the mom paying child support.

Coming from a child who needs the child support in order to help me survive, it doesn't help me one bit, I don't even see what little amount that gets taken out of his check. The standard was so low for his income level that he doesn't even miss what is being taken out. I don't even live with my mother and she still recieves the check. My home is not with her, I am a college student. My home is there until I graduate then it will be where I get a job. Why is it that it doesn't transition over to the child involved when they are obviously not in that home. I am just saying, I could have really used the extra help in order to maintain MY home. Sorry for keeping up the child support debate, I'm just goin with the flow...

I think a lot of men feel that way, imodie. My husband and i pay child support to his daughter's mother each month. She could blow it on drugs for all we know. The money is supposed to be to maintain a home for the child. Rent, food, clothes, whatever. It is ridiculous that the father could even think to control how the support is spent, and on what. Never gonna happen. <br />
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On a side note...she spends summers with us. We still have to pay the support when she is living in our home for three months. Like I said, it is to maintain a home for the child.

Wow, if there's one thing I learned from my post in this topic, it's that I'm not going anywhere near this one! :)

Hmm.. this is an interesting discussion.<br />
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I was thinking about the idea that a man might want a baby but the woman doesn't. In that case, he can create s p e r m well into his 80s or later if he lives that long. <br />
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Women have a finite number of eggs, and will spend between 9 and 10 months pregnant with each child, and then the rest of her life caring for the children. My mother was the sole caregiver and still is. My father comes home and complains if meals are not ready. He's a grown man - he can pop something in the microwave. <br />
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So if a man wants a baby, he can go sow his wild oats elsewhere. He can have a baby whenever he wants, and really doesn't have to take care of it. If the woman doesn't want to be a slave to her children and her childrens' father she has that right. <br />
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Now, if the woman wants to keep it and the man doesn't, she, under no circumstances, will be provided an abortion in an abortion clinic. They counsel you alone so that they can be sure it's YOUR decision and that you are confident in it. <br />
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And in my opinion, child support is so effed up it should be eliminated. True, it's not fair to fathers who did not want to become fathers. You can argue until you are blue in the face that they shouldn't have had sex, but as humans, as ANIMALS, we are programmed to seek intimate relationships. We still have sexual urges to keep the human race going. You can't tell someone not to have sex. It just isn't going to happen. As long as we continue to have sexual organs, we will continue to use them. It's like saying if you don't ever want to gain weight, don't eat. You need to eat. It's instinctual and not only provides nourishment but is used as a social mechanism amongst the different animal groups. <br />
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But there are plenty of men out there who don't pay a cent for their kids - how fair is that to the mom? She didn't just physically HAVE the kids... she will be their mother forever, and she will be the one they go to with their problems well into their own adulthood. How fair is it to the kids? Mom probably works outside the home yet still can't spend time with the kids, read to them, give them new clothes for school... give them 3 square meals a day. So many kids only show up to school just for the free breakfast and lunch.<br />
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But just like that, a man should be provided support if his wife or girlfriend leaves him with the kids to pursue some other interests. <br />
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If it were eliminated, things would make a lot more sense. Single parents could receive medical assistance and other government-funded help without issue. Having worked for medical assistance in my state for 3 years, I know how messed up it gets when a man bounces in and out of his family's life. Should he pay? Is he paying? Then we have to investigate the home. Then when he leaves, the mother thinks he'll be back. Doesn't update her case. Then when he doesn't come back, she tries to get retroactive coverage for things. <br />
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But if people would just not have kids unless they know they can afford them (trust me, you know the second you get naked whether or not you can afford a baby) then we wouldn't even be in this situation. <br />
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I did the responsible thing by being on the pill. I did the responsible thing by not making you all pay for my child that I couldn't provide for anyway. I wouldn't seek child support or any assistance because in my eyes, I'd feel like a failure. My decision to abort makes me feel I am in control of my life. Until I know I can afford the medical care, the day care, the food, the clothes, the crib, the immunizations, I won't be having kids. <br />
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The whole child support thing is antiquated and should be eliminated. People just need to be responsible up front and not bring kids into unstable situations. You can be a single parent if you want, but you better have the money to afford it. Your husband beats you? Don't have a baby with him because if he's going to treat you that way, you aren't going to get a cent out of him for the baby he probably didn't want. If you leave him, he's still not going to give you money for the baby you can't afford, and that baby won't make him be nice to you or change your relationship... unless to make it worse. <br />
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It all goes back to common sense. You know the type of person you are sleeping with when the pants hit the floor. You know if they want kids before it ever comes up. Most men, even if they want kids, are going to be scared to death when an actual baby shows up. That's why they aren't the ones who give birth. They just can't comprehend everything that's involved - everything the child needs just to survive. <br />
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I've lost the direction this post was on... oh well. Have a good day!

ya and how do you think it feels to be the one carrying the baby in your body and its up to you to make the best choice. its easy to say you don't want it when your'e not the one carrying it. that is the very reason you don't have a choice after the fact. but you do have a choice to prevent it from happening by not having sex or having protected sex you selfish pig.

what about a man's choice to be a father being taken away when the woman decides to pick a new man? what about all the finacial pressure and emotional trauma of becoming an every-second-weekend dad? As a man, I have no right to force a woman to make a choice that suits me, I realise that and wouldn't want it any other way. But as an uncle who has buried one nephew because of a woman's right to break up a family on a whim and sue for finacial support, hook up with a new man and have that man fail to take care of children from previous relationships, a man who grew up with a violent and abusive stepfather, I feel I am qualified to comment on the effects all this "mother knows best" bull **** has on men.<br />
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Fathers have rights too. It's just a shame society, the legal process and women can't seem to understand that.

by that logic some ppl are meant to die no matter what and the rest die capriciously? umm ok too tangential...glad you're here

Let us face facts there are some children just ment to be born no matter what. I an here because I was ment to be born...Mother took BC, did not work...then took a pill that would induse abortion, did not work....and 48 years later here I am with two chldren and three grandchildren.....No matter what some are just ment to be born

Thats the whole thing isn't it. Many are thinking of the child when they make such decisions. I did. My partner did. We did not make our choice on selfish reasons. We took precautions that failed. Did we have sex, yes. Did we do everything we could to prevent, yes. Did we plan ahead, yes. It wasn't for us, it was for what we could create. It seems that the reason why people are deciding in the first place gets blurry in discussions such as this.

I am glad someone else is willing to say what seems to be the ugly four letter word...Yes it is the child that is the one that pays the most...The child pays for two people playing around with out thinking with it's life<br />
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Thank you for understanding just what I as trying to say<br />
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THINK OF THE CHILDREN

I would say that the same must go for the women...There can not be an easy way out for one and not the other.... I guess true equality is just a pipe dream.....

exactly! My partner and I decided together by having conversations regularily to make sure we were constantly on the same page. My brother spent a large amount of time trying to raise the child he really wasn't the father to, but in the end both agreed to end his rights because of paternity issues etc. Things happen and people need to be prepared beforehand. If the man wants the child then he needs to talk to the woman he is sleeping with about how she feels as well before doing anything..

these problems aren't that common among real couples<br />
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in a real relationship where there is love and trust - this just won't be that HUGE of an issue most of the time

In the end it is the woman's choice. Pregnancy is something that needs to be talked about between all couples beforehand. If there are differences in views on what to do about it if pregnancy should occur then an agreement should be made between the two potential parents. But we do not live in a perfect world and many are afraid of even being pregnant and the stigma that is attached to it. A father who does not care for a child he was obviously not ready to care for (whether financially or maturity wise) then he is labeled a criminal or bum etc. If a woman is pregnant at a societal "too young" age then she is labeled as no good or worse. We have all heard the tsk tsks to teen pregnancys. Agreements should be made beforehand but in the end it is the mothers decision on whether or not to continue a pregnancy

Abortion is a heated topic. I think we all agree here that we are pro-choice. <br />
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You want a heated debate? Bring in the pro-lifers!!<br />
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I'm not upset at all, either. Just weighing in.

If the woman agrees to it, a man can sign his rights away. I know several girls who did that - and one who pretty much forced the father of her child to sign his rights away. Better than the alternative in some cases.

I'm not mad - it is something that is controversial though - but controversial things need to be talked about, reasoned out. Healthy debate is a good thing.

The main issue is the woman's right to choose. However, the man does not get to choose to support the child or not once it is here. Someone posted he could choose to sign his rights away, and wouldn't be financially responsible. That simply isn't true. They can't just walk away. Whether or not he or anyone else thinks that is fair to him. Women have the upper hand in this matter. We are the ones that carry the child, we are the ones that ultimately get to make that decision. <br />
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Like Eyes said, men get to choose to have the sex or not. If they do not want to be a father they need to consider more closely the chance they are taking.

I have a great deal of different feelings about the topic...started out as a nice day off. Now I have spent a few hours of it ******* people off that I did not mean too. Sorry I opened up the can of worms...Guess I will just have to go fishing TTFN

That is why I said earlier is isn't an equal rights issue. Equal isn't always fair, and fair isn't always equal.

what are we talking about the law or the rights? leave the law out for a second since everytwhere you go there will be a different standard of legal action. so now who is exposed more to a pregnancy male/female? who is traditionally exposed more to rearing a child? its easy to see why the right is placed on the mother as far as it is her body which will carry the child and predominantly her burden to support the child.

Then he can reason with her - sign papers to let her terminate rights and he takes the child. If she is willing.<br />
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If not, he has to accept the consequences of having sex with someone who doesn't want to have a child.

But the point I was trying to make what if he wants the child...Did anyone ever think of that

And it is their responsibility - the state shouldn't have to track them down - they should be MEN about it and do what needs to be done for their child.

Listen, i am not arguing with that! The truth of the matter is someone has to support the child once it is here. Sometimes it is just the ******' you get for the ******' you gave. <br />
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Most women are not going to let men sign away their rights and not support thier child. IF that woman is a low income person, drawing food stamps and government aid, the state will track these men down. I have seen it. I have also seen them go to jail for non payment.

The he shouldn't have ****** her. Sorry for being crass, but that is the way it is.

A man can't just opt out. Sorry. He can opt out of having anything to do with the child, seeing it or loving it, but if the DNA test says it is his...he's gonna pay. You can't terminate your rights as a father and walk away free if you get a girl pregnant. She has every right to sue for child support, and she will get it. If she agrees to let the rights be signed away, that is another thing entirely. However, if she want the support the state will sue the man for it and he will pay it or go to jail

Force an abortion? That is horrible. <br />
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It makes me physically ill to think someone would think that is a viable option.

And no one should be able to force an abortion on someone, not even the father of the would be child. It is the womans mind and body that is affected by this. He can give up his rights if he does not want the child. My own brother did it, but also there was a paternity issue there but only after he signed his name on the birth certificate. Now he's getting ready to be a proud father and is excited.

sorry eyes. I was posting while you were.. you beat me to the punch LOL.

Actually, he could just opt out of being a parent and terminate his rights. Since there is disagreement on the how to handle things more times than not they will break up regardless and she will still be able to apply for and hopefully recieve aid. The man already has a choice on whether or not to be a parent/father. Why do people forget this?

Sure there is a choice - don't have sex with someone you aren't willing to have a child with. There are consequences to your actions.<br />
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Abortion doesn't affect a man the same way it does a woman. A girl can have an abortion, and to the man, it is just the solution to the problem. To the girl who has it though... its a hard choice, once they will live with forever. <br />
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If a man wants a child, he needs to be with someone who wants a child. If you don't know her well enough to know that, you don't need to be sleeping with her. <br />
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I have a friend whose ex-husband signed off on his responsibilities - legally. He never has to pay child support, but he also is never allowed to have contact with her or his child. <br />
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Pro choice isn't an equality issue. It isn't YOUR body, it isn't your life that is going to be majorly changed for the next 9 months. I'm a teacher, and people tsk tsk at the pregnant girls all the time... they get the blame, the stigma... the fathers... they generally just move on to the next girl and no one knows. It is her body that is the vessel, it is her pain, her choice. <br />
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Your choice is whether or not to get into the situation in the first place.

Then to be truely = if she wants the child but he does not to be truely = then he should have the right to force the abortion

I totally agree. It just isn't likely to ever happen. When a father doesn't support his child the burden so many times falls on the state. On the taxpayers. You and I. Someone has to pony up, and I would rather it be him then me.

So just how = is the pro choice issue. If the man would want the child, why is the womans right so superrior to the mans. We should table the issue until it can be handeled = should have an opt out clause

That is true. Once a child is born the father is obligated, by law. Financial obligation at least.