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These People Are Becoming Violent and Scary

I've blogged quite a bit about healthcare and outlined the Colonel Kurtz like decent into madness opponets of Healthcare reform have succumb to.

I've talked about the bizarre "New World Order/Illuminati" conspiracy plots; comparing President Obama to Adolf Hitler and the use of Nazi Symbology, the weird (nonsensical) Obama/Joker posters with "Socialism" inexplicably scrawled underneath his portrait, etc, etc.

Then of course there is the violence and (though not directly connected to healthcare reform) the shooting sprees engaged in by people so unhinged by a (gasp!) black President that the only way they can release their frustration is in a hail of bullets.

All over the news we see town hall debates turn into "Town Hells" as orchestrated by the likes of Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and others. Oh, how do we know they orchestrated the whole thing? Well, for starters Glenn Beck personally coined the term and specifically said that they wanted to turn these debates into "town hells for the liberal extermists trying to turn America into a socialist concentration camp!" Subtle Glenn! Very subtle!

Then of course, just recently, Sarah Palin felt the need to raise the intellctual discourse to a new level by warning that in the bill that Pres. Obama (you know, that guy born in Kenya who isn't legally our President) wants to establish "bureaucratic death review boards to personally give kill orders to the sick and old!"

Jesus, give me strength.

But far from being laughed out the country the extermist are gathering steam! Every day the mania, the hysteria and the over-the-top histrionics are infecting more and more people. Not since the days of the Salem Witch Trials has an irrational maddness so engulfed the nation!

And over what?

To pass very modest healthcare reforms that would expand coverage and lower costs.

But this "outrage" may not be all it seems. Its recently come to light that the vast majority of these "town hells" are not so much spontaneous outburts of patriotic anger so much as Tv stunts orchestrated by the RNC.

 

Rep. Steve Kagen (D-Wis.) hosted a town hall that featured protestations from Heather Blish who described herself as "just a mom from a few blocks away" who was "not affiliated with any political party." It turned out she was the former vice chair of the Republican Party of Kewaunee County until last year and had also worked for John Gard, a Republican challenger who Kagan defeated last year.

Love that phrase....turns out she was the former vice chair of the Republican party of Kewaunee County until last year. 

 

So basically it looks like the RNC is staging all this "outrage" for the most part and then suckering in (sorry) idiots you don't know any better and convincing them that President Obama is a Nazi socialist commie from Kenya who wants to kill your grandmother all in his grand plot to....well, technically they never explain why President Obama wants to stand your elderly relatives in front of a firing squad. But hey! Tin foil hat conspiracy theories don't need to be logical. They just need to be interesting.

The only trouble is that:

a) All this political theater is preventing any actual reform from occuring

b) The hysteria is sending unbalanced people over the edge and real violence is occuring. People are getting shot. More and more protestors are showing up to Town Hall meetins with guns.

How soon before someone straps a bunch of dynamite to their chest and walks into a Town Hall, shouts "Jesus is Love!" and then blows themselves up because they think it's the only way to "save America" from that evil commie Kenya-born Freemason in the White House?

 

niceguyinhell niceguyinhell 31-35, M 76 Responses Aug 11, 2009

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Lol. Now there's a comforting thought for the people afraid of the consultation clause. If the soylent green is marketed and sold, it could pay for the health care plan!

Well, this is such a fabulous discussion. I guess socialist Americans are the punching bag for the masses, but I personally see nothing unproductive and wrong even if it was a socialist policy. <br />
On a different note: I had a "conversation" with my mother about health care reform. Most of the basic population is in wild fear that they will have to wait in terrible lines for medical care. My question to her, which wasn't even a true outcome of how the policies would change, was "If you having to wait a week to get your knee surgery meant that a child would be able to get basic medical care, would you be willing to sacrifice a little?" <br />
I personally don't understand the constant attitude of greed, this point of view that doesn't incorporate anyone but themselves. The "take care of only me and my own" mentality only works in a society where you don't have to interact with others. A society that lasts, because it provides something for all citizens, has to have a basic level for everyone. This includes health care, education, law and protection, food and other things that define our society. <br />
In regards to the death consultations I have only one thing to say, "Soylent Green is Made of People".

It is... and knowing some of the reactionary writers who stalk these pages they will try and hijack this thread and try to divert attention away from this topic.<br />
<br />
So -- following up on comments made here and my own contributions... let's look at the "socialist" idea of universal health insurance... and just exactly what does that mean?<br />
<br />
Is Canada socialist? What about Germany? Oh, wait! I know, I know... what about that exemplar of socialism... Switzerland -- one of the leading banking centers of the world -- and a place where its citizens have health care??? No, wait! I've got it! Japan! Now there's a really socialist country... the home of Toyota... Mitsubishi... Hitachi... Sony... and a country with national health care for those not covered by private plans!<br />
<br />
There is NOTHING incompatible between a free-enterprise economy and a national insurance plan -- as seen by virtually every other developed nation in the world.

Well said Saratoga.<br />
<br />
The incompetence of the Bush Admin has been widely and thoroughly documented in many books and documentaries so we don't need to revist them here.<br />
<br />
One of the best documentaries that covers some of the Bush Admin's legendary screw-ups is the Iraq doc "No End In Sight"<br />
<br />
Bush (and his entire Admin) was the perfect example of, frankly, idiots ruling the country. Bush wasn't capable of effectively managing a baseball team....so we should all be thankful he never tried to reform our healthcare!<br />
<br />
I don't decry Bush for showing no interest in domestic policy....I am grateful!<br />
<br />
If he extended his legendary fuckuppery on foreign issues to domestic (more than he already did) imagine what a mess America would be.<br />
<br />
True, he did screw up a lot on the domestic side, but that was mostly through indifference. He didn't try to start the economic fires per se, he just sat on his *** with a confused look on his face while the house burned around him.<br />
<br />
Had he actually made a serious effort on domestic policy....I imagine his solutions would have involved trying to put out the fires with more gasoline.<br />
<br />
But, again, this is way off topic.

No, Mr. Hunter, it isn't on this topic. Of course the Bush administration was handed an economy with a budget surplus, excellent employment, and a country at peace. He left it with a huge deficit, in a depression, and with two foreign wars. And now that we have an administration that CARES about the citizens and wants to see them covered by a comprehensive health insurance bill, the right-wingers are screaming about "socialism" and trying to re-write history!<br />
<br />
As a forum for discussing HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM we should perhaps stick to that topic -- how the US is decades behind the rest of the developed world in this... what other industrialized country IN THE WORLD still abandons its citizens to die from lack of money for health care???

KittenHasaWhip - I believe the Bush admin was handed a mess when they came in. It was already on the decline. Now, as soon as Bush came in, he was given the mess on the Twin Towers! You talk as if the War on Terror was a cover up... Maybe you didn't have love ones amongst the 3000 that died that day.. You think we should have just sat back and hoped it wouldn't happen again??? If so, your a fool! I will say, after that happened, the Bush Admin kept alot of prople protected from it happening again! Perhaps kept a bomb from blowing your *** up as well as mine! So, in that Presidents defense, from the blow the American people took, I think he did a pretty damn good job of handling that aspect! Obviously, this is a whole other topic. Doesn't really relate to the subject at hand. However, you brought him up, so I commented.

Public health isn't a Socialist, Liberal or Conservative thing in the Commonwealth. It's 'common sense'.

I don't think we should call it "insurance" anymore.<br />
<br />
We should give it the more accurate description of "healthcare coupon book."<br />
<br />
Because the major problem with insurance is that it NEVER COVER ANYTHING IN FULL!<br />
<br />
I wouldn't mind paying $400 a month if it meant I never ever saw a single hospital bill....BUT as we all know the $400 (or more!) we pay a month only means that we get a slight discount off the final hospital bill.<br />
<br />
We still have to PAY for each office visit.<br />
<br />
And when we get billed $175,000 for that 6 days we spent in the hospital after the car accident....the insurance only pays, oh, about 40 percent leaving us responsible for the rest.<br />
<br />
That's not insurance.<br />
<br />
That's a COUPON!<br />
<br />
Would any of us pay our grocery store $400 a month for a book of 10 percent off coupons?<br />
<br />
Would any of us buy this coupon book if we knew the grocery store had the right to REFUSE TO HONOR THE COUPON at any time and for any reason?<br />
<br />
Nope.<br />
<br />
Yet many people are ready to take up arms and violently defend our current healthcare coupon system.<br />
<br />
Even PT Barnum would be impressed at how the GOP has suckered these poor people into believing that the healthcare coupon book idea is "saving them money" and "giving them freedom."

I absolutely LOVE how the right-wing screams the word socialist at any health insurance reform. WHAT is so great about the ridiculous system we have now? Other than guaranteeing huge profits to heartless insurance companies and making the american consumer pay for huge salaries for pharma executives -- what does it do? It costs MORE than health care ANYWHERE ELSE in the whole EFFEN WORLD -- but delivers mediocre care and that not even to everyone. <br />
<br />
Anyone who defends the current system is a patsy and a stooge for the insurance/pharma industry.<br />
<br />
Just my opinion.

Good link, Alex. I guess at least they are being blatant about it. But that doesn't mean people won't fall for it.

LOL! Well said LilAnnie!

Orien, YOU are a fuddy duddy, stick in the mud obstructionist! So there! Nanny nanny poo poo! (how far did that get me? About as far as your name calling gets you, I imagine.)

I wanna understand, I do.<br />
<br />
But all I hear is "Baaaa! Baaa!"

modest reforms? are you high or just clueless?<br />
<br />
Read the bill, all 1100 pages of it. Nobody has sent us to these meetings, we went on our own and on our time , and at our expense. We have encountered rent a mob union thugs sent out by BHO.<br />
<br />
This bill is a load of crab that will radically change and destroy this country.<br />
<br />
If you can read, please read the entire bill and if you are then in support of it, you are a radical socialist who cares little to having all aspects of your life controlled. That is change you can count on.

I have read it hunter....it's OPTIONAL counseling made available so there is no confusion as to what your wishes are in certain medical situations wherein you aren't conscious (or able) to express your desires yourself.<br />
<br />
So, yes, in my head I WANT my 77 year old Grandmother to be made aware of her options and recieve all the information she needs.<br />
<br />
This terror of OPTIONAL end-of-life-counseling smacks of Abstinence Only Sex Ed. A bizzare obsession with just ignoring the more "mature" aspects of life.<br />
<br />
Some people are incapable of discussing a mature topic like sex and demand that the world also remain in total ignorance (The Republican way)<br />
<br />
It seems some people are also incapable of dealing with unpleseant end-of-life scenarios in a mature and sensible manner....and DEMAND that no one else be given the opportunity to recieve information either!<br />
<br />
Doesn't sound particularly democratic, but then again the Repubs have become som overwhelmingly fascist that we would be foolish to expect anything else from them.

Hunter, I read it, and that is not true. This is a voluntary benefit covered by medicare for an advanced planning consultation with his or her personal physician, including talking about out-of-home care, hospice benefits, etc. as well as living will types of issues. It is voluntary, not mandatory. I would want this benefit. My mother would have wanted this benefit when she was dying of cancer. And as the family member taking care of her in my mid-twenties, I could have really used this kind of consultation with my mother present. Instead, I had a mother in great pain with a terminal diagnosis begging me to help her to accelerate her death and a very biased book put out by the hemlock society. Medical doctors are already helping patients with these kinds of consultations with patients who are begging to have them. Here is link to an explanation of the advanced planning consultation benefit:<br />
<br />
http://blumenauer.house.gov/images/stories/documents/myth%20vs%20fact.pdf

again, read page 354 of Obamas plan... Then, in your head, relate it to one of your family members that is 65 or older. There are mandatory steps they have to take. Go to a counsler about death???? Teach them that they should die now... You've got to be kidding me!

Heehee. <br />
<br />
Uh, good point Saratogagirl.<br />
<br />
I'm always annoyed when people say, "All politicans are crooks and are just out to control us!"<br />
<br />
a) No, they really don't give a ****. They want to play golf and **** prostitutes (or the under-age Congressional pages if they are Republicans) They have absolutely no desire to get involved with the paperwork necessary to (gasp!) control us all.<br />
<br />
b) Does anyone really think that any Senator is WORSE than the cocksuckers at Haliburton? What about Enron? KBR? Citibank? Lehman Bros? What about the CEO's of the insurance agencies that ROUTINELY deny coverage to dying people on the grounds that it hurts their bottom line?<br />
<br />
Whenever I hear someone complain that politicans can't be trusted I'm reminded of the person standing neck deep in water complaining to others that they are worried they'll get wet if any changes are made to the current system! Dude....you're already up to your neck in crooked ********. They are called CEO's and from 1899-Present THEY have been screwing you over in every possible way.<br />
<br />
Why are politicans far superior to CEO's?<br />
<br />
I say this partly tongue-in-cheek but your average politican is lazy. No politicans in Congress CARES whether you go to the library or not or whether you drink from the water facuet or buy all your water from the supermarket. Go to the library, don't go. Drink the (semi) free public water, or spend $900 a month buying Aquafina. THEY DON'T CARE!<br />
<br />
Can you say the same about ANY for-profit corporation?<br />
<br />
So if we set up a public option healthcare plan then you'll have affordable public healthcare for the masses if they want it. The politicans are gonna go play golf and **** prostitutes (gay prostitutes if they're Republican, of course). They really don't give a ****. These guys only work about 90 days out of the year. Do you really think they want to sit down and personally oversee 177, 453 insurance claims and then carefully budget out which person gets an x-ray and which person gets a CAT Scan???<br />
<br />
Nope.<br />
<br />
It'll be exactly like the police, fire, highways and public schools. It'll be there if you need it and if ya don't, fine.<br />
<br />
Ya wanna drive on the highway? Go ahead. Ya wanna send your kid to private school instead of public? Go ahead. Ya want to use the foodstamps your entitled to? Go ahead. Refuse to use the foodstamps? Fine! No one in Congress gives a ****!<br />
<br />
Why can't some people grasp this very simple concept?The government is LAZY!<br />
<br />
They don't want to waste time controlling your life when they could be playing golf, watching **** on their computers or doing God knows what else.

Why thank you, WITHAY, for your indepth commentary on an issue of such importance.<br />
<br />
Whether politicians are or are not honest or fair has really no part of this argument -- or any other argument -- when you think about it, since there are politicians on both sides of each issue.<br />
<br />
What is at the heart of this debate is whether or not Americans, as a society, actually give a damn at all about those among us who need medical care. If we don't -- then we can carry on with the bizarre system we have now which costs a fortune for mediocre care. If we do -- then we will pass a reform of our current insurance system that will make sure that all of us can afford basic health care.<br />
<br />
Oh -- just a question -- what exactly is wrong with someone sucking a ****?

Let's see now...<br />
I'm from Singapore, and don't<br />
know much about this whole<br />
healthcare reform thing.<br />
<br />
I've been following the debate,<br />
and both sides (Hunter and the rest of you)<br />
make valid points.<br />
<br />
One thing I've learned the hard<br />
way...<br />
is that most, if not<br />
all politicians cannot be trusted.<br />
And that includes<br />
Democrats and Republicans.<br />
<br />
In my own personal opinion.<br />
they're all ***********<br />
*************<br />
bent on gaining wealth<br />
and power at the expense<br />
of the citizens.<br />
<br />
It's all bullshit.<br />
<br />
Feel free to carry on.

Yep the intelligensia are here

Things are about to get even uglier. <br />
The Chicago Tribune reported this morning that CHUCK NORRIS is now speaking out about all the dirty secrets involved in Obama's plan.<br />
<br />
They are bringing in the big guns!

Oh dear God this is what we're up against. If you don't think the right are invoking the Jesus argument you're sadly out of touch. I'm 3,000 miles away and can see that much.

Anyone who has to invoke the name of Jesus in a political debate such as this has some real self importance issues!!!!! Shame on you!

One thing that the politicians in the states exploit mercilessly is the gullibility of the average voter. The stupid question of whether the president should take basic public healthcare or not and then think that defines the argument on a national level is an example of populism gone mad. When i visit the states I enjoy the level of political involvement but listening to the right wing reminds me of Goebbels. The utter stupidity of Sarah Palin defies belief. Ann coulter, Russ Limbaugh make me sick. To think that "the government wants to control everything" is stated as a defence of George W. He sold out the government machine to blackwater and big oil. Totally unaccountable to the electorate. Anyone who thinks Medicare and Medicaid are efficient delivery systems needs to think again. <br />
<br />
The UK NHS has problems because it is bloody complex but no-one who has had a child fall ill in the middle of the night regrets its existence.

There are good points and bad points on both sides of the argument. <br />
<br />
Where is the VIOLENCE? You might want to check the definition for "violence." I haven't seen anything that fits the definition.

I watched a woman hysterically confront a senator, "I don't want to live in Russia!!"<br />
<br />
I was so freaking confused! are these people idiots???? i mean, they are just pulling crap out of their butts far as i can see.

A observation from 'The Pond'.<br />
It's universal and free at the point of delivery BUT you can go private or join a 'Mutual Society' for things like Physiotherapy if you wish.<br />
All having the state provision does is increase the options available and provide for greater economies of scale. People can and do 'mix and match State and Private provision to get the best outcome for them.<br />
Politicians all all persuasions left and right agree with it.

Hunter - For the 40+ Million without health care coverage something is going to be better than nothing. I am fortunate that I have health care coverage --- however I know A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE COVERAGE and as a result, their lives have been turned upside down due to illness. I was one of them.<br />
<br />
BTW - I would not use the gov't option as long as I have my current coverage, but it is good to know that if I lost my coverage that I would be able to be covered until I found another job with better coverage.<br />
<br />
I was unemployed when I got cancer and when I did find a job, I was not covered. The bills from my treatments bankrupted me - literally. I lost everything! I was not irresponsible, I didn't (and don't) drink, gamble or run up credit card debt - I simply got sick & my life was turned upside down because I was uninsured and uninsurable! Had I had an option of a gov't plan for the time I needed it, it would have saved my family significant heartache!<br />
I remember those days in my life that were so difficult & I NEVER WANT ANYONE ELSE TO EXPERIENCE THE SAME. <br />
You never know when you will benefit from the assistance that gov't can provide... And really, isn't paying to take care of our fellow citizens through health care CHOICES significantly better than paying to kill our fellow world citizens?

I actually find it a bit funny that people Photoshop a Hitler mustache on Obama right after calling him a socialist. Hahaha.