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Land Of Confusion

I don't care who the person is that is saying something. I care about what is being said.
I don't care who wrote the book. I care about what is said in the book.
I don't care what you have done. I care about what you are doing now.

The focus seems to be a lot on who is saying something and not so much on the message. It seems a lot of people are trying to discern the truth by looking at the person that is saying it. Does it matter who is saying it? if the message resonates with you isn't that good enough?

A lot of people argue about if the bible is the word of god, if the koran is the word of god or if other "books" are.
Does it matter? use what you feel you should use. Don't use something only because you feel or are being told that this is the message from god. When you do, you are no longer looking at the message but at the messenger.

 
Abyss25 Abyss25 22-25, M 31 Responses Nov 16, 2011

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Amazing

I think I know what you mean. Go by what you believe to be true.. not what you read about. But what you feel. Is that right?..

great point and well said. :)

If I could ask, have you ever read the Bible in its entirety? :)

Actually, I was asking Abyss but you can answer too if you'd like :)

Yep, I have to agree with your story!

I beg you all to laugh right now..This is history repeating itself over and over again. I defend what I believe to no one, yet I do call peeps out in this world that try to slam THEIR truths down my throat. I just tell them first it is THEIR opinion not a fact that I SHOULD do or be or whatever.. If I am wrong, It is for me to decide, no one else, I will Laugh it off and without saying it, think you are ignorant and blind to their own high opinion of themselves.

i like your last sentence, so true... people so full of themselves and their "perfectness and Divinity" should never be trusted... those so high on their "horse" that they can't see the people beneath them... lacking any knowledge what it really means to TAKE EVERYONE into consideration even the "NOT DIVINE" ones... even the "not rich" ones... even "the animals".... when people start to think they are higher than humanity, then they think they are GODS or KINGS that can rule over them, so where is the equality in that, where is "oneness" in that... I always say: "the more divine [holy - holier than thou] people claim to be the more corrupt they are"... a fact that sits forever and can never lose its grip as Truth.

I agree, none of us should try to convert others to our religion/beliefs, and let it person learn on their own, give opinions but let it go when they do not accept, its okay because what you have learned is for your part of the journey and in my opinion, the most important part of our journeys is when we accept/allow/ and understand that we all have our OWN paths to follow, that will not be accepted by all.

My view is that the only wrong we can do, is harm animals and peeps, children-elders. That to me is the only wrong that I will never fathom, the rest is left to our decisions and if wrong to anyone, drinking, smokin, cussing, wearing dresses, male and female, then I just dont judge their beliefs in what to them is right or wrong. I in my mind think it is stupid or wrong, but that is part of my path and not to be considered truth. Besides, I do smoke, drink and cuss, yet I was a bible thumper for 2 years. I have walked in ,many shoes to gain insight into all sides, and we all differ in what is right or wrong. Yet we all agree with animals and peeps NO HARM. And that is gonna be about all peeps can agree on about beliefs. Peeps adopt many things I say, why? Because maybe it resonates as an adoption to their souls? Dunno! I make too much sense that even I can't believe came from this mortal being.

what is the most terrible wrong is to let others follow in your footsteps of IGNORANCE regarding beliefs in "GOD'S NAME" - - that is hurting people's soul, for if they follow other people's narrow-minded views instead of looking within their own heart space for validation, then they are only harming themselves, and are going to harm others because of it thinking they know all regarding spiritual matters, yet are terribly stupid... they really don't want to help people if allow this to happen... I see many "angels' never correct another on their paths, because in this new age movement, no one cares about another if everyone is presumed as a "know-all-self-sufficient-god" - -so sad.

I like how 777 said that right or wrong DOES NOT CHANGE for anybody - unfortunately many religious zealots and new age freaks make the wrong seem right falling back on lies... when there is any sense of idolatry there is no 'right or wrong' only the being right no matter how wrong!

It doesnt matter what we each beleive, if someone gains wisdom from what we have written that their spirit can use on the path they have chosen then good. Many good peeps that are spiritual and not religious like me, are still assuming that their truth shoes fit all feet and damn it if they don't. Fine to all, have your system for your path. grow and gain in wisdom, but what you believ can be shared yet maybe reconsider trying to bring others to your view? We each have a different path to enlightenment, just gain insight and wisdom and grow little sprouts, For me, I view MY SPIRIT IS HERE INCARNATED IN THIS HUMAN BODY WITH THE INTENTIONS OF GAINING INSIGHT AND WISDOM, AND THAT IS THRU HARD TIMES AND HURDLES THAT I LEARN TIME AND TIME AGAIN, SHE, MY INNER WARRIOR HAS AN AGENDA FOR HER JOURNEY THRU LIVING IN THIS MORTAL BEING. THAT IS HER GOAL, I AM JUST ALONG FOR THE RIDE. AGREE OR NOT, THAT IS MY PATH, I am learning more and more all the time, sometimes reading, tv etc. But I take what my spirit feels, and leave the rest. Maybe it isnt time for you to read and really understand the book you tossed aside, but eventually it may catch your eye,, when you are ready.. We are all so lucky, in the fact that we arent caught in the drama of life and are even aware of our spirits, therefore, we are aware of a path, and it hopefully realize they will differ, but end where they are supposed to end. My spirit has the say so for me.

lol... I think everyone should stay in their own space, especially since there is soooo much ego going on, there is no overlapping of beliefs to compromise and reconcile... so we shouldn't bother with people who refuse to LOOK beyond themselves to SOMETHING SPECIAL in you TOO...that they could possibly learn from.

Hello All,<br />
<br />
From The Tao<br />
<br />
When they lose their sense of awe,<br />
People turn to religion.<br />
When they no longer trust themselves, <br />
They begin to depend upon authority.<br />
Therefore the Master steps back<br />
So that people won’t be confused.<br />
He/She teaches without a teaching,<br />
So that people will have nothing to learn. <br />
<br />
Yes, keep it simple and pure in heart. <br />
<br />
Abyss,<br />
<br />
If you can get a copy of Tao Te Ching, is worth it as this book is not about religion and many masters use it as a tool.<br />
<br />
To Peace....

yeah well if they don't want to learn anything about LIGHT then there is nothing to learn about the Darkness, so they stay in the darkness without knowing anything about it... when they don't want to learn, leave them in their ignorance!!!

Thank you doodskat. I will look into to that book.

@ANACHEL<br />
<br />
yeah I know what it means, but some new age freaks take it out WAY OUT OF HAND... throwing the whole thing OVERBOARD with their utter ignorance and need for RECOGNITION AS A UNIQUE and different individual let's say with "angelic super powers" FEEDING THE PUNY EGO LMAO.

Is the IA belief, New Age?

not entirely, the REAL ONES know it is not, it is only the FAKE ONES that play along to NEW AGE BULLSHAIT... you know the old and "new" based on their ken (knowledge) versus ignorance LMAO

you say the SOUL cannot get hurt, well that is TRUE if you can face yourself for what you truly are, seeing your own faults in all others around you...letting them reflect it back to you, accepting that your soul is no different or separate from that of others.

if you are free of your EGO you are free of yourself... so you can't hurt yourself then LOL

It is either true or it isn't. If you put an if.. that means it can get hurt if the if sets into motion. Which means it can get hurt. So it can not be true and still have an if.... do you see my point.

YEAH some never shake it off, so the "if" is valid LOL

There is that new age saying in lak'ech or namaste - - "bow to the God in others"... but to do that is TO IDOLIZE MAN... we must SEE GOD IN MAN, not BOW TO MAN... WE MUST WORSHIP THE SPIRIT OF GOD WITHIN MAN AND NOT MAN'S EGO... they understand it wrong, the more they are influenced by their false egos and pride, the more they err in their understanding of their "terminology or beliefs".

when can man ever be EQUAL TO GOD??? Man is not GOD!!! Man cannot CREATE like GOD... CAN YOU CREATE AN ENTIRE PLANET? can any NEW AGER? i DON'T THINK SO.<br />
<br />
Since the industrial revolution began materialism began to thrive, and made man think that THE MATERIAL is Divine power, and if he can use it right he can be 'GOD'.<br />
<br />
There is also a false EGO and a true EGO... a clouded mind and an enlightened mind.<br />
<br />
To understand the difference between mind and soul, you must first understand the polarities of the masculine and feminine residing within yourself... mind and soul form one SPIRITUAL body yes, but they are NOT THE SAME THING.

What is god, gothic? We do not have the same idea about what god is. We are part of god in my view, so nobody is higher or lower. To me the mind is the ego. I know the difference. The mind wants and needs things, the soul does not, it simply is.

MIND AND SOUL both need things as they are essentially one in Spirit, for that is the NATURE OF SPIRIT... it depends on what you call things, is it of soul worth or material worth?... spirit needs spiritual fuel to stay alive... soul needs mind, and mind needs soul, so they both need each other... we are all part of God but WE ARE NOT GOD, WE ARE NOT EQUAL TO GOD.

TO SAY YOU ARE equal to GOD is just FALSE EGO TALK, and PRIDE.

Everything is equal to god. No ego there.

everything is equal to God but God is not equal to everything.

Nooooooo gothic :)

the last part means: EVERYTHING (everyone) does not SEE GOD equal to ALL, one's god is always MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANOTHER'S... or one's idea about Divinity is always more SUPREME than another man's.

That is not always true for everyone. But for the people who do believe this, this is just an illusion and they will see the illusion one day.

to see is a choice, some don't want to see, because they love feeling separate and powerful because of the EGO thinking itself apart form the ONENESS.... people like to feel in control of their own lives, they would therefore rarely ever LET GO AND LET GOD.

6 More Responses

Good post. Well said.

Gothic,<br />
I think that the ego is the mind, yes. New Age also says that? Does that make me new age? <br />
If I say treat others as you would have them treat you, does that make me a christian?<br />
You are the one that labels everything. I don't see myself as new age or christian or anything.<br />
<br />
I am not talking about seeing with your heart. I am just saying wisdom can't be found in the mind, at least not the spiritual wisdom and knowing of things. <br />
<br />
You say the ego is the soul and the mind is spirit? to me it is the other way around.<br />
I also didn't say placing anyone above god, or god above anyone. I said on the same level.

WISDOM comes with experience - - that which the MIND has analyzed after the heart or soul got hurt... so it cannot come from the heart, for the heart must first feel for the mind to know what it felt...that is wisdom, knowing what was felt...using the mind to know feeling, to understand emotions.

In meditation you can find wisdom. By not thinking. You feelings are pure but your mind tries to analyze it and put it into a box, label it. The soul does not get hurt, it is not effected because it needs nothing.

maybe you are just talking about channeling pure Spirit... but the universal mind helps the soul (YOU) think... MAYBE you confuse SOUL with the UNIVERSAL SPIRIT.

The universal mind or pure Spirit needs no material attachment, but it helps the HEART to USE THE MIND to think...it brings union between mind and heart, it is the union between logic (thoughts) and emotion (feeling).

1 More Response

since there the SPIRIT of God is to be seen in all things, and cannot be seen in all things, if there is this egotistic dominance going on on a global level bringing separation among people when some think they are better than others because the WORLD told them so... so if the Spirit is not seen, the Spirit remains so to say DEAD and so does TRUTH to that souls.

you see the WAYS of the world DOES NOT WANT PEOPLE to know about GOD OR SPIRIT, for then they will lose mind control over the masses... and there would be INTERNATIONAL upheaval if all were really awakened to the GREAT SCAM OF ALL TIMES - - the illusion spun by the material world, making people's souls empty with material endeavors..breeding zombies...yeah very simple actually.<br />
<br />
But you see then you get NEW AGERS who think they have awakened, yet feel alive, yet are under severe control of the world's dark forces... so sad... they are still zombies and dead of soul without Spirit.

Furthermore you asked does the new age place people above God or does it bring people to God?<br />
<br />
Well to the spiritually educated mind is so damn clear that the NEW AGE does not bring people to God but only to the EGO... FOR they only indulge in their souls (individual EGO) instead of the Spirit (the UNIVERSAL MIND)... that is why they lack true knowledge of Spirit, and that is also the reason as to why they love themselves more than ever listening to something that threatens the existence of EGO.<br />
<br />
They think they are God indulging in self-love, but really God is ABOVE THEM, and as long as they won't recognize that, they will continue to lead others astray in their ignorance as well.

Real enlightenment is all about the mind you see, for the soul is just Heart, but the REAL MIND is Spirit...the lower self (soul - feminine) and the Higherself (Spirit-masculine).

LOL...<br />
<br />
You speak of things you know nothing of... it makes you look like a fool... go and do your research first before trying to sound like some authority on NEW AGE religion.<br />
<br />
Yes the EGO IS THE MIND, that is what the NEW AGE MOVEMENT is propping into people's heads, it is illuminati propaganda as seen also in the movie "eat pray love" to see with your heart and not your mind - - when people only feel with irrational feelings of the Heart, then they GIVE AWAY their ability to THINK... they are giving their minds away, letting their hearts rule...<br />
<br />
That is the whole deal of the FEMININE ENERGY movement to REJECT THE MASCULINE pure thought and logic... NOW THAT IS UTTER SATANIC (keeping people in the dark, using RELIGION AS MASS CONTROL METHOD), there is no Balance they speak of whatsoever.<br />
<br />
You see dear boy, the world DOES NOT WANT YOU TO THINK WITH A STRAIGHT HEAD when they want to CONTROL YOUR MIND.

Do you see the question marks in my message below? I indeed do not know anything about new age. That is why I am asking what you see new age as. I ask questions of things I do not know of. That is true, or should I ask questions about the things I already know everything about?

OH okay, well I did answer as best as I could.

Well you did not disappoint.

Gothic,<br />
Is New Age a religion? does the "new age" movement say this? the end of the world, join or die?<br />
Does the new age movement place everyone at the level of god or do they place god at the level of everyone else?<br />
<br />
Gothic to me the opposite is true. The mind is the ego. The mind does not know the truth, because it has an interest in it. Therefor the truth changes to whatever fits the ego if you follow your mind. You can find the truth in being still, by being out of your mind.. quite literally.

Gothic was around at the time of Constantine the great +- 300 after Jesus! maybe revived again!

@abyss <br />
<br />
You said:<br />
<br />
Posted by Abyss25 on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:09PM<br />
<br />
SnowCrystal.<br />
My initial story was not just about religion. But it definitely applies there.<br />
Religions binds their believers by using fear, the fear of displeasing god, the fear of going to hell.<br />
There is also the fact that they tell you about false prophets, which makes it even harder to look beyond your own religion.<br />
<br />
I say:<br />
<br />
Well the NEW AGE religion and "godlike" people are being used in the same way - - they spread fear - - it is going to be the end of the world, and all must JOIN THE NEW AGE MOVEMENT and follow its crazy beliefs, or you will be labeled as a "dark one" that will be eliminated from the face of EARTH, yeah they speak of some genocide of those that fail to follow their beliefs... which is odd, since the world must end, so why do they want to kill people? Some major b*llShixting going on!! Think about it.

Help me where can I look for the NEW AGE beliefs! I don't believe in Religion but I do try and understand what they on about!
If you know? otherwise it does not matter!

@snowcrystal<br />
<br />
Well said about people seeing the Bible as some IDOL, a book seen as God... in many of the new age cases "people" are being idolized as well, a person seen as God - - clinging to EGOS OF PEOPLE instead of the message of God.<br />
<br />
@abyss<br />
<br />
I agree with anachel, you cannot just feel something to be "right" - - look at many of these new age maniacs, they feel that "being an angel" is right to them, they believe their own lies - - many times a thing that feels right is not always right...<br />
<br />
Do not confuse FEELING with THOUGHT (knowing) - - for the heart (emotions) and mind (thoughts) must be in balance if you ever want to know Truth... many times the Mind can save the Heart, but also vice versa many times the Mind can save the Heart...<br />
<br />
But unfortunately in many of the so called "angel cases" people are betrayed by their hearts because they felt like losing their minds...and not listening to any reason whatsoever, it is a fatal error especially in their cases - - but also in people CLINGING TO ONE RELIGION, feeling that is the right way to go, but feeling doesn't necessarily means KNOWING... for to know, one must question the Heart, and not just let the Heart and all its irrational desires run free without some answerable outcome.

Yes the mind is there to save the heart but alone it can not reveal truth. The mind operates linearly and can thus can only deal with the finite. Much like the scientific process it may only tell us what is not. But through the process of questioning we can filter the probable from the improbable. Remove the lie and the truth which it hides though distortion might eventually be revealed. Our Minds and Reason are there for the ultimate purpose of purifying the gateway to truth -- our Hearts.

Thanks for sharing this Abyss!!

SnowCrystal.<br />
My initial story was not just about religion. But it definitely applies there.<br />
Religions binds their believers by using fear, the fear of displeasing god, the fear of going to hell.<br />
There is also the fact that they tell you about false prophets, which makes it even harder to look beyond your own religion.<br />
<br />
A question to you SnowCrystal.<br />
You also say GOD is the only one who can say if you are saved. Do you think some people will not be "saved" ? ever ? what will become of them? do you believe in hell?

I do not know. It is really up to God as to who goes to Heaven. Do I think there is a hell? Yes. I also think there is a Heaven. And I also think there is a Purgatory, which is right here on Earth. But those are my beliefs. Others may say differently. I have reasons to believe what I do. Does it make it right or the Truth? Not necessarily. Maybe somebody can open me up to a different perspective of what I have experienced or "seen."

You don't have to defend what you believe. I was only interested if you did. And I guess you do, which is fine. I don't necessary believe in "hell", although I do think people can perceive hell.

I know Satan, demons, and what have you exist. I do not think people are doomed to hell, though. It is a fine line. I believe the devil attempts to corrupt people so they go to hell, and do not draw closer to God. Satanists who choose to worship Satan, will go to that place (Hell), because that is who they choose to worship and where they choose to go in the afterlife.

However, I am more in belief of an all-loving God who would not just cast his children into Hell simply because of their differring cultures or religions, or for doing something "wrong" when maybe that person has other personal issues causing them to do such horrid actions (like an abusive childhood, etc., can cause mental corruption in a person as they get older. In turn, that same person may rape others when he gets older, because that was all he knew growing up. Can God REALLY punish someone for something they have NO CONTROL over? I don't think He would. Other people would say otherwise....)

For me Satan does not exist. For me it is more of a symbolic thing referring to the ego. Which also has it purpose. In reality evil does not exist. I don't think god can or will punish you, only you can punish yourself. Anyway it takes more than just a few sentences to explain everything I believe regarding this subject :|

I used to think Satan did not exist, at least until I became spiritually attacked and oppressed and possessed.....

3 More Responses

It is not just the "angels." It happens in a lot of religions, as well. Christianity, Judaism, etc. They believe that their Torah, Bible, etc. is the word of their God. They refuse to believe anything otherwise. They refuse to question that which is written on paper written BY MAN, NOT God, and yet they still claim it as His word without further questions or doubts.<br />
<br />
Why???<br />
<br />
Because it is how they have been raised. They have been raised to see an IDOL, like the Bible, Torah, etc., as Truth. Doesn't the bible chastize glorifying Idols? Or am I incorrect to assume this? When the Bible (as well as other religious books) have become an IDOL in a sense and claimed as the word of the Lord.<br />
<br />
Mind you, there is nothing wrong with using Idols like these books as LONG as it is used for the greater good in finding one's self, one's spirit, and bringing them closer to God, and is NOT used to PLAY GOD and is NOT USED to cast stones at others for believing otherwise. "Do not judge lest ye be judged yourself." It is ironic how in the very sc<x>riptures of the book they idolize, the bible, it says do not judge, yet then they judge ANYWAY and cast stones at others, PLAYING GOD by saying "you are going to Hell if you do not believe this book (an idol) as the Word."<br />
<br />
That in itself, is just bigotry. And then these same people claim to be "saved" because they believe such idols, and claim to know and love God. ONLY GOD can determine if you are saved or not, NOT YOU.

well you know the end of the world have them all in fear, and because of this NEW AGE OF CONSCIOUSNESS people must be seen or associated with Divine or else they would be seen as inferior and not "part of the movement"...<br />
<br />
If you believe everything another tells you without self-investigation then you are just another cow in the herd - - only dead fish swim with the stream and not against it.<br />
<br />
What you probably have noticed in that group is that the 'ANGELS' FRIENDS' tell them they are angels, and so psyched up about it, and so happy to hear they are divine, they just buy it - - like psychics telling the people the same thing, as long as they get the money and the friend is praised for praising another as Divine LOL<br />
<br />
Many who just believe without thinking, don't really do anything as with regards to faith... they make no real difference because they can't make any change of impact.... sooooo farkin boring they are indeed, all singing the same tune, when every bird sings the same song, then NATURE is sick.

I believe I had written a comment about this somewhere... I think one one of your stories, actually.

The problem, is, is people are often confusing the difference between spiritual enlightenment to being some sort of all mighty, powerful angel. In that sense, I am "earning my wings," but does that make me an angel? NO. It just is a representation of my spiritual awakening and becoming of oneness with God and with all creation. And some people may exhibit more spiritual abilities as a bonus. This does not make them any more or less human than the person next to them, but people are confusing this time with being something OTHER THAN HUMAN, or in the "angel's" case, of something divine, and being "other than human."

I do not know if they are narrow-minded. But I think the biggest problem is when people start to believe things because others are saying they should. When people believe things out of fear. When they believe things because they are told this is what god wants you to believe.<br />
<br />
The bible says Treat others as you would have them treat you. To me this makes sense, I agree with it and I believe it. But there are other things in the bible that do not make sense to me. I think some people feel the same way, but they are being told that the bible is the word of god so if you believe one part you must believe everything. Even if it doesn't feel right. <br />
<br />
When this happens, it means you are no longer looking at the message but at the messenger. <br />
You are looking at it by thinking if this is right and that same person says something else than surely it must be right also.