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A Letter To The Other Woman

His wife, his mistress...a role we both seem to share.
If I am happy and in his arms, there are tears in your eyes.
If you are happy and in his arms, then there are tears in my eyes.
Both caught in a web, both being toyed with.
You being told that he is going to leave me,
Me being told that he is done with you and wants to be with me.
Both of us being told that his heart is with us,
That we are his one and only.
What to do?
Both of us thinking of the children.
Both of us thinking of the pain.
Some days I want a divorce, to be free.
Some days you want a divorce, for him to be free.
Both of us wondering who that will make us.
Most days we can't imagine our life without him.
Both of us want more,
More time, more commitment, more love.
Both of us want less,
Less deception, less lies, less of his broken promises.
The world tells me to hate you, that you have no class
The world tells you that he got bored and that I did something to cause him to cheat
The truth is we both fell in love.
4purrfectdarkness 4purrfectdarkness 26-30, F 152 Responses Oct 26, 2012

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Hi 4purrfectdarkness. I am well aware of the low down mean and ugly feeling of being betrayed by someone I was once in love with. The simple truth as I see it now is that the marriage covenant remains valid for only as long as both parties want to remain true to it. If ONE gives up it is over for both like it or not and the other must learn to detach whether or not they think it is fair if they are going to survive. We all want a bit more than survival but IT IS NOT A BAD PLACE TO START IS IT?

Hi 4purrfectdarkness. I empathize with your sad story. Neither woman can fully have the man they love because of the other. The triangle is a sad one because both women are motivated by love and trapped by jealousy. Nobody wins, not even the man. A truly sad story. Love triangles are not always powered by pure affection. I have seen people with devious motives set out to exploit a weakness in someone else's relationship. Very often they end up being exploited themselves, a sort of poetic justice is played out. It is hard not to feel sorry for them too but then again, they get what they deserve, what they intended to do to someone else. Whether the Other Man or Other Woman is your friend or adversary it is worth remembering the old adage to treat others as you would have them treat you. In a love triangle it may not be possible for everyone to win but it IS possible for everyone to lose.

Truth is, you know he's married. Who is the classless one?

Again, the original post was written by a betrayed wife.

I know. Typed it in the wrong box.

Was talking a lady friend down.

If your man doesn't treat you right, find someone who will. This is coming from a MAN, not a silly BOY thinking with his ****, like your so called "husband". He is not your husband anymore, he betray you. It is now you RIGHT to find someone else the right way. Sure, you love him but hey, he pretty much slapped you in the face and said you're not good enough. Why would any woman ever settle with anyone like that? If you were to divorce, it's over his head. The children will blame him and quite frankly, they have every single right to do so along with you.

Stay strong beautiful.

This is so meπŸ˜”

This is beautiful in so many ways. Both women have pain and heartbreak. But, one woman knew that the other had committed to him, and the other had no idea that she was competing. So, even though they are both women who fell in love with the same man, they are not equally innocent in their actions. One woman knew she was choosing to willfully hurt the other. That's when the similarities end.

You do realize this was written by a wife right?

Yes. I have lots of empathy for the OW in my marriage as well. Who wouldn't love my husband? But, the similarities end there.

My point was that if the wife wrote this, then she did apparently know she was "competing," also you are assuming all OW know the man was married. Or that everyone has the full story.

Some OW dont' know, but on this site, most did know before the relationship began. Of course we don't have the full story, and would never assume that. But, I feel like I have given a little too much empathy and worried more about my friend's (the OW) feelings for many many years. I feel like some of us wives give too much empathy, including the one who posted this. We are not just two women who fell in love with the same wonderful man. One of us fell in love with someone who was single and not committed and who was honest, the other one fell in love with someone who was not single and was committed and became a chronic liar from that point forward. Not the same, that's all.

I would say you are in a very, very ,very small minority in feeling any empathy what so ever for "the OW." Most wives feel rage at the OW and feel like their husband was led astray or seduced by the ***** of Babylon.

It has been and continues to be a rough road trying to find forgiveness in my heart for myself, my husband and my (former) "best friend," the OW. It is easy to blame everything in life on other people. I accept my failings and I am continuing to work with my husband on how we went wrong. But, through counseling, I am seeing that I blamed myself for everything for too long. The ultimate double betrayal crippled me, but no one can do the healing for me. That is up to me. The only way to heal is to forgive and not hate. Should I be angry? I now think I should. I didn't deserve to be deceived and conspired against by the two people who professed to love me the most. I did not stand up for myself, and that was part of the problem. Were we just two women who happened to fall in love with the same man? No. She was jealous of my family, my marriage, and everything she mistakenly thought I "had" that she thought she didn't. I thought that being kind to someone who wants to break your happiness was the only thing to do. I thought that caring about someone who has issues would help her. I thought that ignoring her advances towards my husband would be what a "good" person would do. I was wrong about a lot of things. But I did not fall in love with her husband, sleep with him, and make plans to have her children be part of my family. I did not lie to her and taunt her with statements about her husband. i did not stab her in the back and in the heart. We did not "happen" to fall in love with the same man. But, I cannot hate her. I cannot wish her ill will. And, I cannot have her in my life if I want to be healthy.

I am sorry you went through and are going through such a traumatic series of events. Double betrayal sucks, however your comments aren't really help here. I can recommend a site for you to view if you would like, a place for people who are going through infidelity related problems.

I sincerely feel for you humbledbylife and appreciate the courage and intent in writing out your pain and truth for this forum, for people who have experienced affairs first hand, to see and know how it feels like to be on the receiving end of a cheating spouse. Of course you are in your right to off load here emotionally, who else would be interested in your plight, but us? YOU have done no wrong but your husband did though... he pursued another married woman, who had never lied, cheated or known anything about affairs... He was a seasoned player. Your husband saw the affair as his private guilty pleasure, don't ask don't tell kinda thing...and did not want to give it up until such time as when you confronted him and asked him to choose. Even then he carried on sneaking around and lying to you. While I can appreciate your overwhelming sense of righteousness, the other woman was subjected to a similar treatment... he complained bitterly about you in order to persuade her that his life with you was a living hell... No one in this forum believes that affairs are the right course of action. People fall in love, and have trouble leaving their spouses and kids for the sake of their selfish love and passion towards their AP. So we choose to have a "discreet" relationship, hoping matters will solve themselves somehow, as it's too complicated to leave yet we're so attached to the AP.
We can bring up all the moral codes in the world, and wave our fists in anger but it is what it is... no one can ignore love and passion when they're lonely or needy and don't fool yourself... your husband presented himself as lonely and needy as well.
Both sides grapple with the tough aftermath of an affair. I do not know my XMM's wife. Had she been my best friend I would have never considered betraying her. Hell, even unknown to me, I felt terrible about sneaking up on her. My XMM felt bad about my H as well...
Passion is a fire that has to consume before it dies down. Logic can then re awaken, and straying spouses can go back home.
There is nothing for you to understand about the other woman's motives. There are no special conniving traits you need to recognize or guard yourself against. You have to take a good look at your H though, as HE is the one who has sworn allegiance to you. He is the one who is lying to both women. He is the one who shouldn't have proposed marriage to his lover, when he knows you love him so much you will accept him back gratefully and never blame him... Yes, it's much easier to blame your H's affair partner. How else could you wake up every morning and face the rest of your life with a lying husband???

Wow, that was amazingly well said. I wish I had the ability to be that eloquent.

thank you Adorably, the truth is always poignant....

You are so insightful. That is all amazingly true n well said as always. :) hugs

thanks Iso. Be strong xo

Thank u.. I'm trying :)

How can you even think you know the pain these woman's in you wasn't cheated own you wasn't lied to you now what you where getting into with a married man she had no clue.

She has chosen to forgive her husband's betrayal while putting the sole blame on her friend. While I concur that this whole picture is bleak, it would be right if she acknowledged her own - "chercher la femme" knee jerk reaction.
Both of them were her closest, yet her reaction is to cut her girlfriend out of her life, suggesting the problem here is "female envy". Her husband, on the other hand, is quickly forgiven, believed and trusted. Classic deference to male dominance. I hope she's keeping a sharp eye on all his modes of communications...
PS. So Evil, May I suggest spell check?

I have yet to meet or read anything a BW has to say that isn't blaming the OW and saying how envious she is of the wife. Yet when they describe their husband and their marriage many OW are left going...wait I would want that why? Or is that even the same man?

My I suggest if you never was cheated own then don't say anything because you haven't a clue how she feels my I suggest you worry about your own cheating ways my I suggest you try something like honest once and tell your husband way he was tried like **** for 6 years

I have been cheated on, more than once, so there is that. I am not cheating on anyone or involved with anyone who is in another relationship, nor am I married anymore (technically was only common law married in the first place) I ended it because he was verbally and emotionally abusive.

You might not agree but I have been on all sides of the cheating fiasco and I think it makes me more qualified than most to talk about it.

It wasn't meant for u

16 More Responses

Wow, your insight is amazing

It is uplifting to see a woman that understands the other woman as just that- another woman. So many see the extramarital as a monster without realizing that this is a person sharing the same feelings for the same man, the same pain, the same love, the same confusion. I know this took courage and a lot of swallowed pride, and, as one of many I feel for you and I thank you.

The OW and the W do not share the "same" pain. The W is betrayed to the pit of her existence by the person who professed to love her most. Whether you want to blame her for her own failings or not, or to say she "deserved" to be betrayed, she did not choose to be involved with a person who was in a committed relationship. The W did not choose to live a life of deception and conspiracy. I have learned a lot about the pain that the OW experiences by reading some heartfelt posts on this forum. I can understand that both women have love and pain. But they are NOT the same feelings and they should not be equated. Yes, I have to swallow my pride every day to forgive myself and forgive my husband. . . . and to do my best to forgive my "friend" who became the OW. But, no, we do not share the same pain. We are not just two women who happened to fall in love with the same man.

Okay love is an emotion that can't be controlled, actions can and you can fault people for their actions but blaming people for feeling is not going to get you anywhere. Also you have no idea the circumstances of anyone's marriage but your own. I know a few people whose marriage did start with infidelity. I know more than a few who both partners are having affairs. I know you are in pain, please vent that pain somewhere more productive.

Actually, this is something that needs to be said in this very place, especially in response to a W. And, I have not faulted anyone for feelings. Feelings can't be controlled, and we agree on that. Every woman posting here has a role in the affair, whether she is an OW or a W. We all come here to have discussions, and the OW have differences of opinion as well. The woman who wrote this beautiful and insightful piece gives 0% responsibility to the OW. Most OW are rightly upset that people tend to give the OW 100% responsibility. Neither of those extremes is fair. I am thankful for some very heartfelt exchanges with introspective OW on this forum. I do understand that we all come here to deal with our pain and I am sorry that reading my truth is hard for you. I do not expect empathy here, but my contributions might offer a point of view that has not been expressed. Here, I am responding to the words of another W. Thank you for your responses.

I wrote this and I am the OW. What I said in the post was that I don't know if what he says about his wife is true or not, but regardless, if he plans to leave, she "deserves a better goodbye" than infidelity. And I truly believe that.

You misunderstand my intent here, it's not to lash out at you for feeling pain. I am not a sociopath, I am capable of empathy and I do feel it for you. I have dealt with infidelity from all sides and it sucks from every side. I really do feel remorse for what I did and I am also sorry that your friend and husband did something that hurt you. I am merely pointing out that this might not be the safest place for you to expose your pain.

Thanks. There is no safe place to exist, let alone talk about this. Getting through each day is a struggle. The panic attacks rise out of nowhere, and I do not feel safe in my own home or in my own bed. I cannot talk to my sisters, and have always been extremely close to them, or they may think badly of my husband. I cannot talk to any of my friends, because most of them know her, and I don't want them to think badly of her. I cannot talk to another therapist (except trauma therapy) about these specific issues because they all tell me I have to have some self respect and ask myself how I can stay in my marriage. They want me to hold him accountable, but if he admits what happened it will kill him. I end up supporting and comforting him, because he is recovering too. How can you respect yourself when your "self" ceased to exist? I am no longer a person.

So, this is the only place we all have to talk about what we can't talk about to anyone. We all have pain. I hope some of my words may help someone who is reading, even if they have no comment. I hope those who do not want to think about my point of view can ignore it. A good number of OW have messaged me and we have had very insightful exchanges. I very much appreciate their words, and I think I have learned a good deal from them. Some of them have thanked me for giving them some perspective they might not have had. Again, I appreciate that I may not be wanted here, and I hope that you were not offended by what I have said.

The pain may not equate. Maybe the wife's greater, or maybe the other woman's, since she knows there is mutual love but that is judged and witheld by circumstance. Isn't it liberating to free a person who was once yours but now isn't?

Isch, the pain should not be measured or compared. But one thing is for sure: The OW chooses a situation knowing it will end in pain for a woman (the W) who has no choice in the matter. So, the OW has more responsibility for her own pain. She chooses her pain and she chooses the W's pain. The W chooses neither.

You mention circumstance. Circumstance makes affair partners feel heightened emotion as much as it makes them withhold emotion. I have posted the research on brain chemistry and the chemicals that APs get from the risk, the yearning, the secrecy and the infrequency of the sweet reward of finally getting secret "alone time." It is an addiction in every sense of the word, like gambling or drug addiction. At least the brain and body think it is, whether the partners are conscious of the chemical dynamics or not. Many APs who interpret this rush and craving for one another to mean they are soul mates and think that in the "real world" they would have been the ideal couple find that they don't make it in the real world when they choose each other. The "universe of two" that they inhabit secretly is disconnected from daily living, from the full circle of friends and family, and from daily household habits.

Since I have been with my husband for 27 years, essentially your entire life, I am sure you cannot comprehend the depth of love, history, devotion and understanding that grows over time with a person that you commit your life to. I completely understand the period of grief, loss of self, and depression that my H experienced due to death and family circumstances in the "dark period" of our marriage. I also completely understand the motivations of my best friend, the OW in our marriage.

I have forgiven my husband. I am trying to forgive myself for my shortcomings. I am trying to forgive her. And, yes, I let my husband know every day that he is free to go with my blessing and with my forgiveness. He chooses to stay. We have repaired our marriage, gained even better understanding, renewed the head over heals love we always have had, and rekindled intense passion in our marriage. A real love story is one of two people fully embracing each others' real faults in REAL time, not in a hidden fantasy of two. It is a huge risk in many ways for me to allow myself to be vulnerable in my marriage again. But he can see that I think he is worth my full trust and devotion, and that is liberating to him.

There is always a choice in every situation, it might not be a convenient or comfortable choice but there is a choice. Also nothing is ever as black and white as your comments make it out to be. Dig beneath the surface and there is more to be seen.

Why blame the lack of choice to the other woman/other man? Who is married to the wife? Who promised commitment? If there is problem in the marriage, it is certainly because of only the wife, the husband, or both. The wife didn't have the choice because the husband didn't give her that choice, and because even in marriage, you cannot own someone. A person is to himself alone. The wife or even the OW has to face what the man decides on. I don't have to age a couple years to understand grief, love, and devotion. I am a faithful woman who is loving a bounded man. We are aware of the reality, the complication, and the work that we need to get to where we want. Nothing's easy. Only time can tell our ending.

Isch, our only disagreement is about choice. Read posts from OW in the past few days and you will find heartache and indignance about MM's who are not transparent with their OW, do not give full disclosure about their situations and lie to their OW. The posts are about the "unfairness" of not being able to make decisions based on all of the information. That is the crux of the matter for those OW and for all of the W who do not know about the affair. No, a person who does not know they are being betrayed does not have an INFORMED choice about their own life and their own family. At least the OW know their man is lying on a daily basis, and they choose to stay in a situation that they KNOW compromises someone else's marriage. That is just a fact, not blame. We all have blame (rather, responsibility) in these situations. A husband and wife are equally responsible for any challenges in their marriage 50/50. An MM and OW are equally resonsible for their CHOICE to betray a marriage. He can make all the efforts he wants to be in an affair, but his OW has to say "yes" or it can't happen. The reverse is also true. A married man is responsible for his choice to betray. The W has no responsibility for the choice two other people make to violate her marriage. If her H is open with her about his feelings for someone else, then she has knowledge that will allow her to make an informed choice. That is all I am disagreeing on. And, yes, your perspective on a long term committed relationship will change when you have been together for 10, 15 or 20 years. Of course you understand your feelings of love, but you will find a different reality if and when you have your HEA. I hope for you as I do for all women here (OW, W, GF) that your relationship resolves with the least pain for everyone.

8 More Responses

It was clear that my Married Friend did not love his wife.. I wouldn't have wanted him if he did..

He told you that and you believed him?

No, its from what I saw..

My man does not love his wife either. And I would not be with him if he did...

what a fantastic letter....

That's y the little head has 2 stop controlling the big head

Well said

the real truth
look in the mirror and you will see the wife.
the wife looks in the mirror and she will see the other woman.
because you both carry the same love
and so you are both the same
and your both being used and hurt.
i wish you both the ability to say good bye
and find someone that really and truly loves
only YOU.

because she usually is...

wow!

That's beautiful!

i m d other woman..... its nt evrtm dat d other woman is wrng or she is selfish

i m d other woman..... its nt evrtm dat d other woman is wrng or she is selfish

Brilliant!!

This is fantastic. One of the best I've ever read on EP or anywhere else. Great job.

Beautiful

The truth is that if you want to keep your man, the you two will have to sit down and learn to share. Wife is wife and lover can easily turn to concubines, aka second wife. That way all three will be happy and secure with anymore lies and deceit. To hell with societal norms!

Hey that is great writing. Thanks for sharing!

actually, this arrangement would be the most open & honest way for ppl to have their relationships if they wanted a wife/husband married life, but not monogamy. obviously there are plenty of ppl out there who do want it both ways but have to lie & deceive ppl to get it. open & honest communication would definitely save a lot of heartache.

Thats so true and im sure you hate that you love him so much!

The generous sensitivity of your expression will remain with me a long time. Thank you for sharing.

Beautiful but so sad that he "has it all" & both women have to settle. He has all the control and is a master manipulator. Im an "other women" & have been for almost 2 years. Its heart breaking. As much as I love him still - I am starting to hate him & I still feel guilty - something he never feels. I wish you happiness

The very last sentence is the most truth to that entire letter.....well written...gave me shivers...xoxo

Despite the hurt that prompted it this is very insightful. My personal feeling is he doesn't deserve your objectiveness but your trying to make sense of it has me admiring your character immensely.

As LostOne40 said....WOW!

I totally get this ... All I can say is Wow! So well written from the heart.

When a man realizes these things, and if he is a "faithful adulterer" he may, provided he is a decent sort of chap to begin with, realize that he can't have both of you. And he will resolve to really have just one or the other.

Perfect.

wow...

In asia we get our brothers and relative to beat the hell out of him.Wish it is that simple in your country!!!!

This is exactly true. Perfectly written. But how do we solve this problem?

Written intellectually.. with a heart.. I applaud you.

You have an open mind and an open heart. You are seeing this from both points of view...not something many people can do. I applaud you!

Aww I thought it would end in something like getting together and killing him for what he is.. It would have ended better .:( guess that would just be me

Crazy it sounds like dejavu

Get rid of that cheating SOB.... No woman should ever want to be with a man that can't be faithful. Ladies, If he will cheat on another woman to see you, what makes you think that he won't cheat on you to see someone else??? Leopards don't change their spots nor will a man his habits!!!!!!!

Years ago I found myself as the other woman. He started off with a lie that I bought. It turned out that he was playing a game along with his brother in-law of how many women they could get. I was so angry and hurt when I found out and broke all communications off with him. I then felt so guilty that I wanted to write Dear Abby in hopes that it would be printed and that she would read it. I wanted to say that I was so sorry and to give her enough information that she would know that I was not the only one. That this man was using every female he came in contact with.

I heard through the grape vine that he did indeed get caught. She file for divorce and won.

WE R FOOLS THINKING THIS MARRIED MAN WANTS US , HE ONLY WANTS FOR SEX PLEASURE , LIKE THEY SAY GOOD TIMES , I BEEN A MISTRESS , AT FIRST EVERYTHING IS OK, WE CAN CALL OR TEXT ANY TIME , PUT ON LIPSTICK, PERFUME . WEAR WAS WE LIKE , THEN THE GOOD PART COMES , STOP CALLING , N TEXTING ME , STOP WEARING PERFUME , N LIPSTICK, JUST WEAR BLUE JEANS EASY TO SLIP OFF, WE SPEND TIME ONLY ENOUGH FOR HIS SEX PLEASURE, 15 TO 30 MIN, I ONLY KNOW THIS BECAUSE I BEEN A MISTRESS MANY TIMES , THIS WHAT THESE MARRIED MEN SAYS , I AM NOT LEAVING HER , DIVORCE HER , I DONT WANT TO HURT HER, I DO LOVE HER , THEY WIFE HAVE HIM 7 -24 , THEY GO ON TRIPS, SHOP, GET GIFTS FROM HIM, WE GET **** , WE R BEING USE WHY WE LETS THEM, N AS LONGEST WE DO , THEY WILL USE US, IF THEY GET CAUGHT U WILL NEVER HEAR FROM THEN, THAT SHOULD TELL US SOMETHING , HOW THEY FELT ABOUT US , WE WOULD THEY ******, . DONT WORRY YOUR HEAD OFF, MOVE ON , HE IS NO NOBODY , BE GLAD HE GOT CAUGHT, HE WAS IN THE WRONG FOR PULL U IN . FORGIVE YR SELF , NEXT TIME , TELL THAT SON OF ***** MOVE ON GO HOME TO YR WIFE , I HAVE , I PROMISE MY SELF . NEVER MORE . REMEMBER THESE MARRIED MEN AR USERS,

This is is probably the best response ive seen.

i thought the same thing.. the love of my life left his wife 6 months ago... we had only been seeing one another for about 6 months when he made that decision... alls i can say is... if the mm is really unhappy .. nothing will make him stay in that marriage and if he really wants to be with you.. nothing is going to stop him.... my guy did what he said he was going to do... and we are still very much in love to this day.. :)

Im the wife but mine have a four fling with lady from church.just sex all this time.I know she has feelings for him but he don't cause he loves me.mm cant have feelings for lady they're using.

Lisa I read your story. No way did he spend four years with another woman for sex only. He probably loved her.

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This is the best ever story i ever read about mistress......ultimately it is the man's fault for trying to live 2 lives...but the pain is with the 2 ladies- the man torn between 2 lovers!

The man caused the pain for the two lovers!!!!! He should be held accountable for his actions.

I wish people wouldn't just act like the other woman is a selfish ***** and just wants to ruin anybodys life. I like this letter a lot, because it shows understanding. My current boyfreind was married when we met. His wife had been sleeping with other men for a while, and we started talking and fell in love. He left his wife, and now she hates me and acts like i ruined her marriage. She refuses to take responsibility for her part in the downfall of her marriage. She constantly made caustic remarks to him, and told him he was worthless and a failure. She seemed to forget that he needs love and support just as much as she does. I'm not excusing my boyfriend's behavior or my own, but people can't always be perfect.Their marriage was already over by the time i came into the picture. Men don't cheat just because they want to have sex. Something is obviously wrong in a marriage if either party want to cheat, and its irresponsible to just blame the cheating party for ending a marriage. It takes two people to ruin a relationship that was once good. I really can't believe that people are really advocating violence against the "other woman". She didn't cheat on you, and she wasn't married to you! It's illogical and barbaric. And, it will land you in jail where you belong.

Bullshit. Maybe as a couple they were both wrong. But you only compounded the problem and let it happen when you knew about it. If you no longer love your spouse, get a divorce. Period. When you are single again, go ahead and date. But dating a married person is just wrong. Period.

You help me see the other side....The lady is unfaithful,somehow the consequence will be divoice. unwittingly you help speed up the process and the ex is using it to get more benefits in divoice settlements....Such tragic outcome...Do pray and work together with this man so that your marriage will work!

Some men do cheat just for the sex. That may not have been the case with your boyfriend, and I'm not judging you or him. But for some men, and women too, that's all it's about. They may even love their spouse. They just feel they need more. I think in many cases it's low self-esteem issues. Sometimes it's just the excitement. It's different for everyone I suppose. All I'm saying is that some people in happy marriages still cheat. Strange but true.

Excellent! Thank you.

I agree with you that it takes two people to ruin a relationship. Both parties are at fault. and it doesn't matter who did worst.
However, let me put it out there that two wrongs don't make a right. Just because the wife cheats doesn't excuse a husband's affair. He could choose to examine what went wrong and try to salvage the marriage or opt for a divorce if he couldn't look past her affair. Why 'cheat' on his wife? To make her jealous and get a taste of her own medicine?

How do you know all this is true just based on what your boyfriend said about his wife. Men with pathological narcissism and sociopathy tend to spin tall tales about the women they've been in relationship with. So you really don't know for sure that she "had been sleeping with other men for a while, and we started talking and fell in love. He left his wife, and now she hates me and acts like i ruined her marriage. She refuses to take responsibility for her part in the downfall of her marriage. She constantly made caustic remarks to him, and told him he was worthless and a failure. She seemed to forget that he needs love and support just as much as she does." YOU DON'T KNOW THIS. IT'S SECOND-HAND INFORMATION.

Words like pathological narcissism and Sociopathy are thrown around too much.. These personality disorders are actually rare.. Don't assume every married man who cheats has a personality disorder. Only a small percentage will have a PD

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i agree oxpictus...but this ***** thinks he loves her,please he only wants one thing...haha there not good enough to get a single guy so they prefer to be second hand

Oh hell no. My response would be:

Now look. YOU are the OTHER woman. I am this man's wife of many years and I'll be damned if you are going to waltz in here and wreck our home. We have our home, children, businesses and community standing.

Be advised that if you continue, I am going to go over there, and-for starters- beat the holy bejesus out of you. Understand too, I have a nice little Smith & Wesson .38, and I'm a dead shot. I could take your worthless carcass out into the desert, dig a hole and kick you in, and no one would be the wiser. So you weigh your options, *****. You don't have many. P.S. Did I mention that my Dad and brothers were in law enforcement? Yup.

Are you addressing my reply? If so, please be advised that I have been married to the same man for over 50 years. We have two grown children, both with Master's Degrees, and both have been married to their original spouses, one for 25 years, the other for 19 years. You obviously do not live in Texas.

@Oxpictus

Congrats on having such a wonderful marriage and such successful children! I wish more people could be in that situation.

Yes ! i agree with you . harrie51 .Oxpictus I am ashamed that though your chidren has masters your behavior is like a kindergarden! Anyway we must remember the green green grass of home!

Oxpictus my bf would love you lol; he's Texas all the way! And you wouldn't have to beat azz if azz kept to itself.

Wow, my mother is a Texan and I can personally say for certain most Texans don't think the way you posted. You really need to get a psych eval.

Are you calling me pathetic? Or someone else?

And what makes you think someone -- OW or not -- is just going to let you beat the crap out of them? Did it occur to you some people will not be intimidated by your threats of having relatives in law enforcement? If you are the wife, deal with your husband if he is cheating, and the problem should get resolved.

I agree, I'm in a similar situation. My boyfriend moved back in with his ex girlfriend two years ago and he's not able to come visit because "she's off work" he says nothing is going on between them but I call BULLSHIT

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Sometimes people weep on the other side the river not knowing what to do, yet there is goodness on the other side of the river, whoever makes you cry is not your creator, God is still in business of creating wonders, despair not on the yonder there is your blessings. But, trust in God dont rely on your own understanding

Yes..your post is reasonable!

Well i must hand it to the guys,like her bedding both women.Like the misstress thinks he's not sleeping with the wife as well,come on.
If he wanted to leave the wife and be with the other women then he would have done that a long time ago.
But why would he when the mistress is the second hand,you are after all The Lady in Waiting!

Do not worrie everything is going to be straight soon. Jesus knows the tears and the heart. Jesus knows the deception in the heart. We all don't know what love is anymore this is why jesus will show us very soon. could be tuesday this week. We will soon know real love.

BOTH OF U LADIES ARE TOO GOOD FOR THIS MAN N MARRIED MAN. KICK OUT OF YR LIFE , HE PLAYING U BOTH . RESPECT YR SELF .

correct...only one can have him and keep him with her claws ready to pouce on him if he try sometime funny!

Thank you harrie51. I see myself exactly as you described OP's husband. I cheated not because i had a valid reason. I cheated because i had a huge hole in my soul. Its like your trying to fill it with all sorts of stuff (some of it was outright garbage). I would take drugs and drinkup everyday to fill that hole. When that wasn't enough i took to having affairs. Through it all my marriage faltered, but held fast. She never let go. Annabelle was an amazing woman. She had her flaws mind you. All through those dark days she modeled Christ's love for us. Unfailingly true, sacrificial, and unconditional. I think that was her ultimate act of motherhood. My kids saw a mother who wasn't going to give up,get even or leave just because her husband was dysfunctional. Again my first 3 kids are as human as all of us but, i can see the example of their mom has made them more seeking of the LORD. Jan 3,2004 came and Annabelle passed away. I came to know JESUS Jan 4,2004. The story doesnt end there. Call me a masochist but in 2010 i married a woman 23 years younger than me (Leisel). We now have 2 kids. I guess now its my turn cause she has cheated on me on numerous occasions. I remember Annabelle's love. I am committed to loving Leisel the way Annabelle loved me.Am not going to quit or get even. I am committed to loving her in the face of all that has happened between us.I know its not gonna change her overnight. I find peace in the presence of GOD.One day she is going to look back and know what REAL love is. I live for that day but if by some quirk i keel over before then, i will know that for a brief time i was a channel of Christ's love.

Ps--- i draw the line at physical violence. If a man beats his wife then she owes it to him and her kids to seek legal help. Separation will be better for all than having a dead mom and a father that is in jail.

Thanks for sharing..now you can share how it hurts when your partner cheats!So God is correct...Do not be mocked...Whatsoever a man sows he will reap....

Anyone figure out a marriage counselor who is qualified to do what they professionally do?

Enlighten 1,

Marriage with no intimacy, no loving touching, can be worse than living alone. Your wife told you to seek intimacy elsewhere, and you finally did, but don't feel good about it, nor does she. The question is, why doesn't she want intimacy? Have you explored this together, or with a counselor? There can be so many reasons. She may be angry about something, she may not be comfortable with her sexuality emotionally, she may not enjoy sex physically, she may not be attracted to you physically, she may have been sexually abused at some point...if you feel your church (if you go to one) has a good counselor, that might be a good starting point, or a private counselor, or just the two of you if you can be that honest with yourselves and with each other.

I am a person that my wife calls a betrayer. And in a sense i am. I have in 12 years of our married life ever slept with another woman. I loved my wife, kids and the Lord too much. But how does a man survive when starved from intimacy. Kissing was history and if we ever 'did it' it was so mechanical. She wouldn't touch or feel me. Many times she told me to get ''relief' elsewhere, knowing so well that i could not deny my faith. Now that it has happen, apart from her calling me a betrayer and her counselors telling her that she is better off without me and that i am a loser and not her, what really gets me is that its not about who is what but how do i cope with this isolation, guilt, and hurt.
I know the OW's pain as well for she was a virgin when i was embraced by her. How can i reject her -who entrusted herself to me, and make amends with my wife? The poem poses the inner dilemma so succinctly.

well I think it is partly your fault as you should see why she could not meet your needs.Now you need a lot of prayers and wisdom!

Is the other woman having friends on the side as well? Do you people all use condoms? Seems to me that would be wise in such a situation to avoid the spread of diseases. If I had a cheating guy now (I have experienced such in the past); I would not want to live with it; I would ask him to move out and stop taking advantage of both worlds or I would move out myself. I would feel used + I'd ask the other woman to take the trash out...if he had treated me badly...

As a man, I had cheated on my first wife many times (GOD rest her soul). The strange thing is even in the depth of my lust ,alcohol and drug rooted days i was always regretting it as soon as the sex finished. I know that even in the depths of our depravity, there still speaks a moral voice. Some people choose to follow, some choose to ignore.Even when we resolve to follow this tiny,yet righteous voice the world noisily sways us to keep on doing what we actually know is wrong.Your husband is doing what he knows is wrong.Keep up the great fight...don't leave him. Much as you love this cheating guy you married, The rewards for your perseverance are infinitely greater than keeping, that flawed imperfect wretch, of a man you call your husband, by your side.I know it sounds counter intuitive but, ALL problems are GOOD.Problems when taken in the proper attitude build a better, stronger character. The only hitch here is the proper attitude means surrendering all of you (including your heartaches) to the the Lord Jesus Christ.It means keeping your marriage vows sacred even when your partner is ******* on his. Its not at all pain free and easy (it will require a lot of introspection as well) but long term you will have an infinite GOD on your side.Turn your back on any ideas of giving up or getting even, just keep on being the loving wife. Again the rewards are INFINITE. GOD bless you.

I love the last paragraph. You are so right! When my husband didn't give me ANY attention I cheated and I would feel so guilty. I never wanted to cheat i just wanted the attention that I was suppossed to be getting from my husband. It was my fault for being weak but I am only human ... Husbands take care of your wives same goes for the women.

I believe on what you've said gelato1..marriage is about being one..being together whatever happens and working things out. And it is difficult if there's kids. I do believe if parents are not that self centered, they would always think of the welfare of the children. Because the best gift we can ever give to our children is not of the material wealth, but a successful marriage.

Yes the hubby needs some disciplining!

when i go over this all and read it...i was the married one, the one that had a cheater as husband....the reason why he was cheating was pretty simple, i got cancer and i became disabled, my husband could not or was not willing to spend the rest of his life with a woman with this kind of disabilities...and he was so nice to tell me that right into my face! Still in therapy, he had already girlfriends who had NO IDEA that i was there, very easy to get woman ( I CALL THEM ****** ) and since i was not willing to accept any of my husbands cheating, he tried to get rid of me that one night with putting the cold metal of a full loaded revolver on my forehead....domestic violence...Till today, 1 year later now, i am still not over it, may be i will never get over it, i still love him, the man he was before i got sick, i hate him, the man he became after i got sick.....CHEATING IS NEVER EVER OK, it HURTS !!!

the truth is don't take what is not FREE, even when a guy tells you he is free, before having sex with him, please meet his family first and check him out, then you know for sure he is all yours and not taken somewhere else already....have as woman that little bit of more proud and self respect for yourself and the eventually other one and i am sure that a cheating HUBBY will have it much more DIFFICULT to cheat if a woman would not be so EASY as they are now!

the truth is don't take what is not FREE, even when a guy tells you he is free, before having sex with him, please meet his family first and check him out, then you know for sure he is all yours and not taken somewhere else already....have as woman that little bit of more proud and self respect for yourself and the eventually other one and i am sure that a cheating HUBBY will have it much more DIFFICULT to cheat if a woman would not be so EASY as they are now!

I think the person who wrote this is very wise and of course very forgiving. It was beautifully written. I have cheated on my own husband but I do not regret it at all because a beautiful child was born from it. Sometimes I believe that God works in strange ways. This affair was very refreshing for me and helped me to stay and raise all my other kids as well. I believe that marriage is very stifling for some people and throughout it people change and can grow in different ways not necessarily in such a way that they have to break up. Loads of other parts of the marriage could be great but if you end up in an affair then you are looking for the sexual gratification side of the marriage in particular. I thought I would never have an affair but somehow I became fierce attracted to a customer who was coming into our business. Sometimes we learn very valuable lessons throughout an affair even though some of them can be quite negative. I think though that you shouldn't have to stop loving other people just because you are married.

When I was married young, I cheated. I told myself it was alright because I was lonely and misunderstood. It caused a great deal of anguish for everyone involved including the man I was involved with. Eventually, I got a divorce. I stayed single for years. I learned my lesson. I would not even flirt with a married man. Before I remarried, my guy and I talked about such things. He had a cheating wife also. We both agreed we didn't want such things in our lives and that we would both prefer to go our separate ways than for either of us to cheat. We both feel free to be ourselves and not worry about such things. There is trust between us. I believe it is an irresponsible thing to interfer in the relationships of others no matter what your circumstances are. Going into a complicated situation with a person that already has attachments is only going to lead to pain. You can not feel trusting toward some one you know you cheated with. I would rather live alone than live in turmoil knowing others are being hurt by my actions. Handling your feelings responsibly isn't always easy especially if you already feel unsure of yourself in relationships. But it is better for your own self esteem whether you are male or female to give your partner the same right to chose as you want for yourself. I hope I don't sound like I am preaching. All I can say is "been there, done that". It is just so not worth it.

I often wanted to say this to my wife's boyfriend! Thanks

You should. Get it off your chest

And he has the best of both worlds. Both of you should cut your loses. He will never change. Why should he?

I have been a mistress for fourteen years, thing is he goes home to her, to her and his children. He has gone as far to ask me to merry him! I say no, but I stay because it is safe. Safe from allowing someone else to come in and hurt me. Just because I am the other women does not mean I do hurt. I hurt more cause she is with more, I hurt more cause she holds him more, I hurt more cause she gets to love him more. I hurt more cause she gets the holidays, I hurt more cause I chose to.. I take all the hurt, lies, promises and throw it away just for one stolen moment, one stolen kiss, one stolen embrace and stolen word. They are stolen cause he is not mine. I settle cause its not his fault, but mine. I feel that that is all I am worth and deserve in life. Its not his fault, but mine. I know he will never leave her, for what, I don't want a lying, cheating, deceiving man. But he is mine just for those moments. We as mistresses settle for fear of commitment. FEAR!!! I fear!

my heart hurts for you. You must have never experienced real love and that is a tradegy. That is a real sad story. My advice is to forget about your present relationship with this beast who cares nothing about your feelings and only wishes to accomodate his own desires which are self. He cares nothing for you. It is amazing how anyone could treat someone like you that way. My prayer is that you will be comforted. Bless you.

I so feel your pain - I am
In exactly the same place - my heads screams to get out and my heart just can't or won't let go - its the bum deal bring the mistress isn't it x

I have been a mistress for fourteen years, thing is he goes home to her, to her and his children. He has gone as far to ask me to merry him! I say no, but I stay because it is safe. Safe from allowing someone else to come in and hurt me. Just because I am the other women does not mean I do hurt. I hurt more cause she is with more, I hurt more cause she holds him more, I hurt more cause she gets to love him more. I hurt more cause she gets the holidays, I hurt more cause I chose to.. I take all the hurt, lies, promises and throw it away just for one stolen moment, one stolen kiss, one stolen embrace and stolen word. They are stolen cause he is not mine. I settle cause its not his fault, but mine. I feel that that is all I am worth and deserve in life. Its not his fault, but mine. I know he will never leave her, for what, I don't want a lying, cheating, deceiving man. But he is mine just for those moments. We as mistresses settle for fear of commitment. FEAR!!! I fear!

I know, I know. But please don't keep doing that to yourself. God wants us to be happy and how can you be happy in your situation. Get you someone who will love you and keep you. Your worth more than that to youself and to your God.

I have been a mistress for fourteen years, thing is he goes home to her, to her and his children. He has gone as far to ask me to merry him! I say no, but I stay because it is safe. Safe from allowing someone else to come in and hurt me. Just because I am the other women does not mean I do hurt. I hurt more cause she is with more, I hurt more cause she holds him more, I hurt more cause she gets to love him more. I hurt more cause she gets the holidays, I hurt more cause I chose to.. I take all the hurt, lies, promises and throw it away just for one stolen moment, one stolen kiss, one stolen embrace and stolen word. They are stolen cause he is not mine. I settle cause its not his fault, but mine. I feel that that is all I am worth and deserve in life. Its not his fault, but mine. I know he will never leave her, for what, I don't want a lying, cheating, deceiving man. But he is mine just for those moments. We as mistresses settle for fear of commitment. FEAR!!! I fear!

I have been married 3 times. I also have gone extended times between marriages, where the only women I have been with were all married. I discovered there is not really any difference between men and women.

If anything, married women sneaking and cheating are more delusional. They seem to justify what they're doing, yet quickly admit that if they caught their husbands doing what they were doing, the wives would be vindictive "and clean the bastard out". Men aren't like that.

Everyone seems to cheat because things got boring at home, they aren't getting the attention they need, and they think they can get away with cheating.

Not every situation is the same.

Not every woman that I know cheats out of being bored.

I have a friend who husband is sickly, like mines and she cheated or had an affair only because she needed that love and touch that she was not getting at home. (Hell, you can only play with yourself for so long. You do want to feel the real thing, sometimes)
They have not slept in the same bed for years and something is going on with him medically that he can't get it up anymore. He refuses to go to the doctor, claiming no money but yet he cries and falls out when she tries to leave.

He could at least touch or rub or even lick from time to time. It might be something wrong with him in the pants but there is nothing wrong with his mouth. But he chooses to do nothing.

So, you see not every woman cheats because they are bored.

How was my letter to the other woman? Powerful stuff, huh.

You are more than welcome to post your own letter. But our experiences have nothing to do with each other. You need professional help, so I will not offer any advice except not to post to my stories anymore.

I see a lot of love that is still here, and so, you do need to confront this,and with honesty. But this honesty needs to be directed in a lot of ways. It needs to be directed to your spouse and yourself.. because you know the spouse is lieing to you, and you need to get him to make a choice. And you need to decide, what you do?......if he doesn't, if he won't.

I have to agree with the Wife... I too am the Wife in the same situation except we only have one child together and after 20 yrs he had an affair... He went away on business and never told the other woman he was married he didnt wear a ring and only told her he had a daughter.... I do not hold anything against her... He was from out of state working in a place she called home how was she to know who he was I blame him for the mess he caused both of us because he lied to her as welll she believed they were gonna have a life together and now her heart is broken as well.... Dont always assume its the womans fault.... Or in a different situation the guys... Woman lie too and say they arent married just as well as the guys do...

No, you shouldn't risk happiness for the sake of the children. But you also dont need to ROB a person of their self esteem & self worth by having an affair. If you are that miserable, first, TELL the person you are married to what is making you unhappy. Give them the opportunity to try to recapture what has faded after 3 children which can happen after a 23 year marriage. When you are caught, be a man and confess to your indiscretion instead of lying and causing even more devastation...instead of waiting 6 months until I hire a private investigator and catch your sorry *** in a hotel room at lunch time with your newly wed assistant that is 19 years younger. There is never, ever a good reason for an affair...if you are that unhappy leave the person. Better to upset someone by leaving than to devastate them with an affair. And to the other woman, have a little respect for yourself...say no and keep your legs closed...if he 'loves' you enough, he will leave his family he supposedly does not love...some people just dont want to take the chance of being alone so will line up someone before taking a leap....or just need some exitement to fill a void.
For me, being married at 19 for 23 years, I had to 'learn' how to live again in a whole new world...when I took my vows, it was for life...took me years to rebuild what he destroyed..turns out, she can keep the loser.

the truth is that u are a bi..h qtpys ..u don t have no idea how it feels ..she talk about love that ain t no lust she felt ..it is the fault of the men ,he is married not she !..he talked all that bullshit to her to have her fallin for him !she neva did it by no purpuse ,more then love!she neva wanted to hurt anybody .

My last gf 4 yrs ago ran off with my ex best friend of over 15 years... when they confessed they had started seeing each other it took all my strength and self discipline to calmly ask them to leave...even now I feel so much hatred for both of them but am civilized to my ex best friend on Facebook at least...she's totally out of the picture...all I am saying is don't use kids as the excuse...don't cling onto an unhealthy, damaging or dead marriage "for the sake of the children" - this is bullshit...whether you have sons or daughters you need to put out a resounding message that infidelity is INTOLERABLE. Or the next generation make the same mistakes

Sorry, truth is, your a *****....you knew he was married...stay away!! Do you want me to tell you the devastation you caused 3 children? You rocked their world...and changed the people they could have been...they no longer have a loving father they can respect. His first born wont even talk to him. If he will do it with you...he will do it to you!! Do you really think your so special..HA! Do you think you are the first? Do you have no conscience, no morales? Find your own man...he is showing absolutely no respect for you or his family when he is having his cake & eating it too.

Actually I am the wife in the situation....and I wrote another poem for all that anger...you should read it (To His other Woman(en)). When I got done being angry, I realized that sometimes the other woman is just as trifling as people make them out to be, but sometimes they are just as victimized as we are and my heart broke all over again because it made my husband's behavior that much uglier to me. I wish you and your children the best.

I am the OW and felt so vulnerable after a divorce and this mm knew it. He came to me when I was so lonely and hungry for love. I could not resist him. I feel terrible for falling in and don't want to hurt anyone. Once your heart is involved however, it is so much harder to break loose. I am sorry for what you went through.

This poem feels sooo right... i should be able to understand... I am the other woman and yes i was the one on whom he cheated...I was his gf for 2 years and he went to his parents house for vacation few months back and got arranged married to a gal he doesn't even know. (Its an indian family) She is staying at his parents house and he is in another city. He still says he loves me and did not even once have any physical relation with this girl (his official wife). But he says its impossible for him to leave her at this moment due to social issues. I am not sure what to do.. leaving him seems so impossible.

omg :( truth in every sense.

omg :( truth in every sense.

omg :( truth in every sense.

omg :( truth in every sense.

Leave him, the pair of you. He's not worth it. Trust me. You are

I will never have sympathy for any "other." I respect your ability to see the "other side." Truth is, no matter what the married party says, if a woman (or man) knows the person they are having sex with is married, it is the obligation of the "other" to stay away....until or unless that divorce he/she promises comes through. No, I have no sympathy for the other woman/man who sleeps with a married person.

Also, I readily acknowledge the role of the cheating spouse in breaking up their own family, so I'm not placing complete blame on the other person. But this is a story all too common....beginning an affair with someone you know is married, but doing it anyway. When they say they're getting divorced or whatever line they feed someone to have sex outside their marriage, it's almost universally a lie. If the two are truly in love, they can both wait for the legal separation or the divorce. Fact is, though, this situation rarely ends with the huband/wife leaving and ending up with the person they cheated with. And when they do, the cycle usually repeats itself. If they cheat WITH you, it's likely they will cheat ON you.

If you think affairs like this are about sex, you are missing the real issue right from the start. 4thehellofit seems to better understand why relationships can go the way they do. It's very rarely about sex. It is about love, it is about having someone care about you.

No, I realize many affairs are started because there is a lack of intimacy between the married parties....however, this does lead to sex in most situations like this. Not only does it violate marriage vows, but it also leads to health risks for the partner being cheated on. And there are so many instances when, on the rare occasion of a spouse actually leaving for the "other" person, adultery repeats itself. Clearly, something is wrong there. A marriage in trouble needs help. The response to what the marriage lacks is not adultery. If the marriage is lacking and love has been lost, then leave. Don't cheat.

I see your point. But let me put it another way....if you are just adults then do what you want. Once you have children, your feelings no longer count to the extent that they did before. Children suffer from these things. I'm not saying be miserable, but I am saying that if you are unwilling, EITHER parent, to work on the marriage or you refuse to face what is clearly going on, be aware that such selfishness is going to destroy your children. Just because divorce is more "popular" these days, that doesn't mean children are any less affected and hurt by it than when divorce was a rare occurence. So that kind of makes me not care about the "other" person's feelings. I was that child. And when I got married, I swore MY KIDS wouldn't have to be those kids, too. And over 9 years later, they haven't.

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The poem is beautifully written, and every woman should read it before she wed's, as should every man, be they single or married already. To many of the ladies, that wonder why us guys stray, its because many of us are weak, or unhappy with our selves or things in our lives. I want ever woman to know that when your man cheats, its NOT YOUR FAULT!
If you've done everything as the wife or Gf, or husband or Bf. (I'm the hubby, soon to be ex hubby) and they step out on you. You are not the problem. THEY ARE!!!

If you give someone your all, your everything and its not enough, for them. STOP!! ask yourself, this. Are you happy, with yourself? If so good, hold your head up high, and walk out the door. (nothing easy in life, especially leaving the one you thought loved you. ladies if you have kids, take your children, they will be okay, and its okay for you to find and be happy) Leave these unhappy people to themselves. Maybe just maybe they will realize what they've lost.....by that time it will be too late..

Now with that all said.. they(she) made their choice. Let us make ours and find the one that's going to love, honor and respect Us for us. Because we are enough.

Love it!!!! Thank you so much! Your comment brought tears to my eyes and touched a part of my heart that needed to heal. I'm tired of the 'normal' comments where every throws logic at you as if it is supposed to erase the raw emotion of it all...like there is a simple solution and I'm just being stupid. I hope that you find the one who is worth it and for you.

Beautiful well thought

I feel for you, I really do: I too have been in that situation but managed to gather the strength to walk away. I had to because I realised that the late great Diana Dors told the truth when she said these things: " Your married man is a liar, do you want to love a liar"? But more pertinently: "If he cannot decide between two options........ then the chances are he does not really want either of you".
He is having his cake, eating it and rubbing both your faces in the icing. Stop deluding yourself: a man who truly loves you wants to be yours. Take your life back: be strong and walk away.....................................I wish you real love, because this isn't it!

I hadn't heard the Diana Dors quote before, but it seems to me that is the bottom line, "Do you want to love a liar", I would add to,"If he cannot decide".....etc, that if he cannot decide it's likely he/she might be also subconsciously looking around for their next version of love, outside of the two he/she is already involved with.

Romantic love is an imaginary notion popularized by poets and writers. Please do not misunderstand my perspective ... but our heart is like a spoiled child and the mind is the parent. We tend to justify what we want and therefore do. "True Love," is a trump card often used. After all, who is going to fault "True Love?" Right? Hard one to over come but not impossible.

Would you hire an excon who served time for embezzlement to do your bookkeeping? What is abscent in your lovely poem is the gentleman's perspective. I don't blame him for wanting more rather for not being open with his wife about it. What he was looking for when he found the mistress is what he had when he found his wife prior to children. That closeness that developed from wanton, crazy, in the elevator sex. I would bet he did'nt have the balls to tell the mother of his children.

If he lacked the guts to talk openly with his presumed love, he is destined to repeat it with the mistress. On this point I have more respect for swingers than the average couple since they communicate their thoughts and feelings and proceed from there.

Guys, initiate discussions of your wants and desires to your spouse before you go elsewhere and be prepared to learn that she may have even more provocative desires that she would like to try! In doing so, a great deal of grief can be avoided from your present family. If she refuses the notions to please you, a different understanding is now on the table.

Please stop sharing boring stories. Nobody cares about your ex or her cheats. Tell us something funny.

Why did you read it then?

People who have nothing nice to say should not say anything at all.
This is unkind and not everybody has something funny to say.

I agree, have only been using internet sites for a short time, but I'm saddened more even than angry, that people should feel so easily able to to vent their spleen,share there narrow mindedness with people who simply want to share with others, their experiences, their anguish and yes at times even their humour when something IS actually funny. I suspect they have not yet become mature, and I only hope that one day, they grow up.

the pain is true and not caused by you,but by the lies and lying you both do. i feel for both of you i did and love my ex wife, i mess up once and stopped the first time. lesson painful because to hide the truth i had to lie. she loves someone else lied to me for two year and then still lies to me and that is the hurt she causes me. only God and you can fix this one as the heart is a liar and never forget what people say to thine own-self be true. God bless you.

Some advice to win your man back:Apply model steps when you're walking -- sticking out your butt and wiggling yourAss -- but be careful -- don't let out a fart in the process!

Your poetry is touching and insightful. While you both may feel that you love this man he is unworthy of the love of either of you! You both deserve REAL love...someone that will put you first, someone who can only envision you in his arms, someone who can't help but put you above himself! We are brought up to believe that there is a "someone" out there just for us, but in a lifetime it is possible to find several true loves. My wish and prayer for you is that you never settle for the romantic tragedy you describe in your poem but instead allow a man to come into your life who will truly love you, nurture you, elevate you and put you in his every thought, desire and dream. You are too precious to substitute the artificial for the pure and real!

I have been both. First the wife. Next the other woman. Having sat on both ends of the spectrum I can honestly say that I will never be the wife again. Maybe I am selfish or perhaps it's self preservation but whatever the reason I am much more at peace with being in a trio where all the variables are known. Monogamy scarcely exists therefore I embrace my odds from a better standpoint.

Finally someone who gets it. It is possible to really love more than one person. I agree with the other writer that one can respect swingers of what-ever level, for their honesty if nothing else. There are couple that have been in the lifestyle for years, but remain couples. What is "normal?" I have not been in this lifestyle, as it has not appealed to me. But I truly love and care for, nurture and help in any way--two women. Nothing would please me more than if they both cared for each other as sisters. One does, the other is incapable due to jealousy. I feel most sorry for her, as she will miss the chance for having the best friend imaginable in the form of the other woman, and she risks losing for-ever, the support, love, nurture etc that has made us first friends, then lovers. I am actually not even enjoying sex with number one, it has evolved into deepest and closest friendship. This is what number two cannot tolerate. So she will lose everything, unless she can manage friendship after the relationship break-up. I fear she cannot...... Yet she loves me deeply, our time, whether it is dinner, working together, a walk, a museum, sex......ah.....the sex is great, but it is only a minor portion of the totality......everything is good. She turns to me for a leaky faucet, a broken appliance, help with a computer problem, ping pong in a difficult decision. Everything that a couple can do, we do. ....and she will toss it, because I have an emotional relationship with number one. Sorry, I think it is a foolish thing to do.

This would be lovely IF the reverse situation where your wife/woman number one, also had permission to also love another, and that you and he would love one another like brothers, and everyone had their needs variously satisfied. If such an understanding were possible and acceptable, then I assume very few people would get hurt. We generally,(wrongly or rightly), want or need the kind of love relationship where, we are the one person for the other, and they are our other. Each partner has the right to expect what was offered, and in a perfect world this would be clearly defined, understood and accepted. Love becomes a minefield when this isn't so. Lots of things never get discussed, and this can lead to lies and deceit.

I strongly suggest u take your life back...U need to stop giving anyone so much power over u..Even when it's hard,sometimes the best thing to do is walk away,something in life..We can't always try and fix somethings which is broken....Cause the more u try,the more broken your spirit will feel...Things like this,nobody really wins...Yet u need to pick yourself up and start all over again.Good luck in whatever u do.

With increasing longevity, long-term marital monogamy is becoming much longer term. It appears to be increasingly replaced by serial relationships, in the form of remarriages as well as extramarital affairs. Being sexually faithful to one person for many decades may come easily to some and much less easily to others. In my experience, without justifying this behavior, men, in particular, appear to feel a naturally strong pull to roam physically. Women, too, though perhaps on a less purely physical level, but more emotional. A lot of pain and suffering are caused by extramarital affairs and divorce. It seems to me that on a certain level, acceptance of some type of polyamorous relationships would lessen this pain. At least it would diminish the pain of feeling deceived and used, as greater openness and truthfulness would then be possible. I live in a European Latin country, where extramarital affairs, though still painful, do not necessarily lead to divorce. Some simply choose to close their eyes to it. Some do separate and divorce. Some get together with their former lovers/mistresses for shorter or longer periods of time. When there are children involved, the blended families that result become so complex that an Excel table is required to know who is who! I would say the most successful and happy outcomes seem to be those couples who find a new equilibrium. This takes a lot of understanding and maturity on both parts. This poem seems to have been written by someone who possesses those qualities. I send you my heartfelt wishes that you may all find a new equilibrium, whatever that is.

With increasing longevity, long-term marital monogamy is becoming much longer term. It appears to be increasingly replaced by serial relationships, in the form of remarriages as well as extramarital affairs. Being sexually faithful to one person for many decades may come easily to some and much less easily to others. In my experience, without justifying this behavior, men, in particular, appear to feel a naturally strong pull to roam physically. Women, too, though perhaps on a less purely physical level, but more emotional. A lot of pain and suffering are caused by extramarital affairs and divorce. It seems to me that on a certain level, acceptance of some type of polyamorous relationships would lessen this pain. At least it would diminish the pain of feeling deceived and used, as greater openness and truthfulness would then be possible. I live in a European Latin country, where extramarital affairs, though still painful, do not necessarily lead to divorce. Some simply choose to close their eyes to it. Some do separate and divorce. Some get together with their former lovers/mistresses for shorter or longer periods of time. When there are children involved, the blended families that result become so complex that an Excel table is required to know who is who! I would say the most successful and happy outcomes seem to be those couples who find a new equilibrium. This takes a lot of understanding and maturity on both parts. This poem seems to have been written by someone who possesses those qualities. I send you my heartfelt wishes that you may all find a new equilibrium, whatever that is.

Polyamory open relationship will make everyone happy.

Part of the problem with polyamory is that men have a hard time accepting their women with other men. The sense of ownership men feel has led far too many to want to harm or kill their female spouse. It takes maturity to have flexible relationships, but so many people are selfish and want the upper hand where they are loved more than they give out love. They have double standards when it comes to their partner having options.