Our President, A Champion For America

Here, you pack of right wing hyenas, chew on this:

 

And this:  http://www.evwind.es/noticias.php?id_not=6518

LilAnnie LilAnnie
56-60, F
47 Responses Jul 16, 2010

And yet, somehow, the rightwing gains while the left retreats.<br />
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Allofyou, be proud of your republican party, which ADMITS it WANTS America to fail, if that is what it takes to have republicans regain power.<br />
BE PROUD of the treason in your ranks.<br />
Be PROUD of the racists and their Teagagging signs.<br />
Be PROUD of the way you destroyed Democracy with Bush v. Gore and your Who-e court.<br />
And be PROUD of bankrupting the nation. Raygun, 41 and 43 spent 82% of the Debt. <br />
Be PROUD...of serving your real masters in Tel Aviv, the only nation to fire on an American warship in time of peace, the only nation to sell our nuclear secrets to the Soviets, the nation with the LARGEST contingent of spies in America. So many the FBI has a separate detachment dedicated JUST to containing the damage the Franklins, Rosens and Weissmann's have done to the national security.<br />
Be PROUD of being an ignorant slug!!

Thanks, Annie. Very little in that article was surprising to me, I follow this stuff closely enough that I already knew about 95% of it. <br />
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Doesn't change the fact that I'm pissed, or the fact that I have every right to be, considering how unbelievably stupid so many people insist on being. I realize they have busy lives and don't have a lot of time to follow all of this stuff.... but that excuse only goes so far. Because these things MATTER, they have a quantifiable EFFECT on their lives. They owe it to their children to spend some time learning what the hell is actually happening, and to stop ignoring the news.

Thus the attraction for some extremists for the romantic Cuban. Castro went in there and got it done! But the price is too high....I'll go for a messy democracy over a dictatorship anyday.<br />
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Vendetta, you might be interested in this: http://www.thenation.com/print/article/37165/kabuki-democracy

Obama has lost liberals. I am Exhibit A of that fact, just ask Annie about what I've been saying the last few months. This has destroyed his poll numbers. Independents are also less than impressed.

Allofus, apparently, the biggest fault of people who don't agree with you is that they don't agree with you for their own reasons.<br />
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"nothing stopping his agenda from going through".... Nothing?!!! Obama is not a dictator with an agenda he forces upon the American people. It is the task of the legislators to legislate. The fact is, law making is far from a pretty process anymore, especially in a country whose politics are carried out in a circus arena of savage personal destruction. <br />
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Mrs. Sherrod was a target of some of the worst fighters in this arena. That video was deliberately edited to discredit her and the Obama administration. Unfortunately, officials jumped the gun in revulsion of this crafted smear. They should have known better.<br />
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Yes, you are correct. It is true, the left is just as free to operate in this manner. We could set up our own Fox smear machine...But we aren't constituted with the nature needed to tolerate the taint that kind of crap leaves on everything it touches.<br />
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and polls....polls are skewed to go in the direction of the question asked. Never base your predictions on polls. And keep this in mind, the left is extremely disappointed in Obama. He has turned out to be much more centrist then they like. Those polls could reflect their disapproval. But, trust me, they will not vote for a Republican come NOvember. So if I were you, I wouldn't count my chickens just yet.

As I have read through these comments it amazes me how hypocritical those who supposedly support Obama are. You chastise anyone who says anything negative fact or fiction and uphold anyone who agrees with you fact or fiction. For the over a year of pres. Obama's presidency there was absolutely nothing stopping any of his agenda from going through except his own party. Republicans had not enough votes to stop anything. As of right now they still can they fight amongst themselves. And the lady the Obama administration fired was formally fired before Fox news story hit the airwaves. Also if it was doctored it would easily be refuted, she said she was simply misquoted, that is the left's way of saying you caught me. The right lie, the left is misquoted. <br />
And Obama has not been over 50% approval by any reputable poll in many months. Nothing in the federal government has.<br />
I know you hate the right wing talk show host and commentators but seriously why not just get someone from the left to do it and do it better. It is what free America is all about. There are over a dozen news agency on cable these days and yet Fox news can bring down all these left leaning organizations and yet you say they are nothing and full of lies. By the way Acorn employees currently under arrest or being investigated is somewhere around 300. No one but the right would follow the story and it lead to many fraudulent individuals doing things that were not legal by any stretch of the imagination. <br />
Look disagree if you like but stick to the facts and not name calling and slander. Just because you get emotional and upset does not mean you have a better argument or opinion about something. It usually just means you have nothing intelligent left to say. The facts always come out and the facts always trump politics and the spin everyone tries to give it. Try going with straight facts instead of innuendos and malicious statements. It only makes your argument seem small and petty.

A fall at last of the wall of lies called the GOP!!

Regarding my comment of July 19th at 3:03pm: They're at it again, same old story, same tired tactic...Obfuscation and deliberate and dishonest out of context manipulation!!!.<br />
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They almost destroyed an innocent woman when Breitbart, the guy who edited those bogus Acorn Prostitute tapes, edited a speech by Shirley Sherrad to make it look like she's a racist! <br />
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Complete obfuscation in order to ring a clarion call.... "Look, everybody. LOok! The Obama Adminstration is "racist" <br />
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Now the right wing media is attempting to spin the story and focus on the mistake of the Obama administration for firing her in response to their doctored story! Can you say disingenuous! What a big pile of BS! They repeatedly broadcast this doctored tape and wrung their hands at this scandalous story in the first place! They are evil, unethical and immoral......and can not be trusted. The right wing has an agenda, and they believe their desired end justifies any manufactured means...Obama is "liar"....yeah, sure.<br />
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You can't make this stuff up....oh, wait a minute....But they can! And will!

And the best news?<br />
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Americans MOSTLY agree, Obama is doing the best he can against REPIG obstructionism!!!!<br />
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http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_fav.htm<br />
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Obama STILL over 50% approval, compared with Reagan in 1982 polling 38%!!!!<br />
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This is the beginning of a WAVE of Democratic Administrations, and before the decade ends in 2019, there will be no more than 3 REPIGS on the Supreme court, preventing any more Bush v. Gore crimes!!!

Oh, give us some slack. Please. Forums like this are a release for much passion and frustration. You have no idea how hard it is to hear the savage way Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin and the entire right wing media rip apart the man who you sent to Washington to accomplish exactly what he is doing.

Well now that the conversation has taken such a civilized turn, I believe I'll just let your friends show their colors.

Married an Puck....The "Obama is a liar, liar pants on fire" characterization is a common tactic of the right wing. They love to do it. But the charge is not effectively convincing, in my opinion. The tone is unattractive, petulant and whiney. It only speaks to like minded people. It does not convince.<br />
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This is why. Maybe its just me, but isolating Obama's every utterance out of context of the sentence, paragraph, subject or time he said it makes it look like there's some sort of collective learning disability going on. Hey! I think I'm on to something here! Palin and Beck suffer horribly from exactly this kind of syntax dyslexia. Their spoken sentences are often nothing but disjointed phrases of outrage and accusation, slapped together with no grammatical construction to give a clue to logical flow of thought. Maybe they craft a homage to the sound byte. But, we all know it, this practice of deconstruction is a deliberate obfuscation.

Married2filth, that last lie of yours about Bush and WMD is so sickening even YOU should have some shame.<br />
Need I remind you of the 2002 Downing Street Memo's, recording Bush conversations iwth Blair?<br />
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"The determination to war has already been made, and the intelligence is being fixed around the policy"<br />
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I swear, you'd rather go up on the roof to lie to us than stand on the street and tell us the truth!

married2filth, you lying sack of scum. UNLIKE the rest of the world, Bush had the truth about ZERO WMD as of Dec. 2001. He lied,<br />
You DO REMEMBER the forged Nigerian Uranium lie, right?<br />
Forged by Michael Ledeen, zionist of the worst order, and traitor to his homeland, the United States.<br />
But Bush knew this, which is why Wilson had to reveal it, and Cheney had to give it to the Wall Street Journal, the post date a Bush order to declassify, in order to stay out of prison.

Because the same story is in two groups I posted my two cents worth on the other thread. Oh well. I'll say it again. I'm sorry that you can't see through Obama. Some folks aren't doing the math. It doesn't pan out. When your out put exceeds your income your up keep becomes your downfall.<br />
Health care-not cost effective<br />
stimulus-not cost effective<br />
cash for clunkers-<br />
Green jobs-<br />
socialism-<br />
the wars-<br />
fiscal policy- idiotic<br />
Look at the numbers. Put down the kool aide, and pay attention to what the heck is going on.<br />
He lies. He's got Bush beat all to hell in the falsehood department. Check it out....unless google has been taken over by the right. <br />
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**What does my daughters song have to do with anything?

I don't believe that Obama is lying about what he wants to happen but there is always the right wing fanatics who want minority rule always trying to demonize the logical path to recovery.<br />
If you want to see lies look at TEA party speeches, Limbaugh, Gingrich, Palin and a host of other rabid spewers of hate speech.<br />
There is nothing socialistic about Obama nor is he far left.<br />
Obama is a moderate.<br />
When one talks about Hitler in the same breath...it shows a lack of understanding.<br />
Hilter and Mussolini were fascists which more closely resembles Bush Jr.<br />
Fascists are all about empowering corporations with tax cuts etc.<br />
Obama has humbled certain corporations and is pushing hard against the financial institutions to ensure a less criminal approach to speculation.<br />
I believe there needs to be stronger regulations and a commission to ride the financial institutions and corporations hard.<br />
Once he has this in place I would like to see regulations against Monsanto and other corporations who are out to corner markets so they can control seed stocks once they have poisoned the world with their herbicides. Other corporations have equally sinister plans in place.<br />
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Thank you LilAnnie for hanging tough against the BS

Good... a chance to mull the thoughts. I mean no harm and just call what I see. BTW I proudly celebrated (though I voted for his opponent) Obama's election with many of my associates. I had and have high hopes as I believed he would slide center as the intelligent man he is. What has happened has been rather shocking to me...but I have always watched politics of both parties with very open eyes.

Married, You do pack a whallop of a comment!!! So much to respond about! But I have to get ready for an outing that I have been looking forward to for a few weeks...Yipee! But, believe me, I have a lot to say about what you said. LOL! I will be back!

Sorry Annie, I have never seen a President behave the way this one does. They called Bush a liar when he simply agreed with most of the world and former President Clinton over the war in Iraq - but this guy in office now stands in front of the American people and lies through his teeth! You really need to watch him a bit and consider his current language in relation to his previously stated missions. You have to remember that he is a Constitutional scholar and so he knows how the "car got wrecked" You have to notice that he spent the summer blaming the 39 republicans in the Senate for holding up health care... He is disingenuous at the very least. "Been on it since Day 1" Give us all a break - we're not idiots... we understand that there was nothing that could be done on day one ... but let's face it ... the oil spill does assist him in a number of policy ventures he would like to promote!<br />
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Do you agree with the notion our President encourages … the Tea Party is more dangerous to America than say the New Black Panther Movement? He is a slick Chicago politician and has surrounded himself with some very evil men and women. In no way would I compare him to Adolf Hitler except to say... study history … Hitler was surrounded by people that make his values seem saintly.

(hand out for shaking) That is shall indeed be! I am kind of looking forward to it!!! I am certainly dreading the campaigning that will lead up to it though. That is going to be very dirty and annoying on all sides!

Well, let's shake hands then cause there's fighting at the polls this November! Neither side is going to lay down and surrender....it should be interesting!

Thank you Annie for getting us back on track. You are right, he is not a trickster in that he has told us everything he was going to do. I do not believe he is evil incarnate, but I do believe that he is dangerous for our country because I do not agree with his goals and agenda and do not believe that they serve what our country stands for. I know plenty of people who agree with me and plenty who agree with you.. I do, however, believe that he is a trickster in how he gets things through in spite of what the majority of Americans say they want, but he does have help from Congress on that. I also believe that several powerful people in Congress are pure bullies. I recognize that he speaks for many Americans, but there are many he does not speak for as well, and I am one of those.

Yes, that would be opinion and that is why we have a 2 party system and checks and balances system. This is what is great about our country---we can have all of these opinions. What often forms our opinions are the facts and unfortunately also the misrepresentation of facts (either wrong facts, or opinions presented as facts), and this is where true debating comes in---presenting facts to persuade the others' opinions. One of the methods of debating is to discredit the witness and get off task by leading the debate elsewhere which is what has happened here. We are no longer discussing the story or the group but the thread is onto this. I am not pointing fingers about how it got here or why it is here, that is not my point, but instead, noticing that it has, indeed, happened. Back to the story now...?

And another thing!Obama is not a trickster. He is not evil incarnate. He is a proponent of active govement, engaged goverment, a goverment that is responsive to the need of its time.......he is a man of ideas. <br />
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Now, if you are afraid of the ideas....you may want to demonize the man. But I feel it is dishonest and cowardly to do so.<br />
He speaks for many of your fellow Americans....please recognize that simple fact. Its very important, I think.

There are adherents to schools of thought who could spout for hours about small goverment versus big goverment and everything in between.<br />
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And every syllable would be OPINION!

The FACT that you cannot tell fact from opinion says a lot about you and your credibility. If I wanted to bash you personally, there is plenty that I could say here to discredit you but instead I am trying to stay on task and point out that there are facts and there are opinions. Opinions are not right or wrong and cannot be proven or disproven. Facts are right or wrong and can be proven and disproven. You are welcome to your opinion for the moment and I hope that you will allow me to have my opinion for the moment, but the sad fact is that we are losing our ability to have opinions faster and faster as we lose our rights to be who we are and what we want to be, whether that be stupid/intelligent, fat/thin, smoker/nonsmoker, liberal/conservative, etc. It is like the balloon you feel the need to pop as it flies through the air out of control. Watch out.

That is all opinion. It may be a fact that it is your opinion, but it is still an opinion. Because it is opinion, that does not make it right or wrong but it is still just an opinion. That explains a lot. <br />
My opinion is that you are right about the balloon in that there is a lot of hot air (the effort of which you speak), a lot of lip service (the coordination of which you speak) and a lot of time (which I am sure the people of the Gulf Coast are appreciating right now). And by the way, you can poke a hole in a balloon and not have any air leak out, it is an elementary school science experiment.

The current administration faces no greater challenges than the previous administrations. This group is for people who believe Obama is dangerous to the nation. Let's ask the people most effected by the Oil Spill if they wished they would have listened when the right wing hyenas pointed out that Obama was flipping the populus the bird on Health Care and Stimulus. Now, from Washington he flips them an economic bird - since he knows better than all of us and the drones that love him hide his failings in songs of glory such as these.

leo, attacking the person again? That does not validate your opinion, nor does your lack of facts. Until you have facts to present, then you are not really part of the debate but instead you are just being a heckler.

Vendetta, I know that you are totally disappointed in Obama. He has not done enough fast enough for you and many other progressives as well. My take is that he COULD not. The political reality is that we are a very polarized nation. And the other side is better then we are in rallying their troops. The hysteria of last summer's town hall meetings, and the relentless attacks he faces in the right wing media does not allow him to move any faster then he is doing. <br />
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The last thing reform minded people need do now is to be so easily disheartened and give up. If we do, we deserve everything we get .

The vaunted free market that conservatives are always talking about will never lead us to energy independence, especially after the Citizens united ruling. Big oil and other interests like that will never allow serious and ambitious changes to happen, not to their piggy banks. puck is correct, for once, by saying too little too late. The timid actions of our president ARE like ******* in the ocean and saying that sea level has changed. <br />
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After receiving tax payer billions, GM has turned around and BOLDLY announced that 10,000 Volts will be made in 2011. Wow, 10,000. What a pathetic token gesture. And 30,000 by 2013?? Do ya promise?? omg, how pathetic. Look at how many million model T's were made in the few years after 1917. Millions. But today GM can only handle making 10,000 Volts for the entire year. <br />
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But this is exactly the type of timid, calculated PR move that Obama always makes, it's enough for him to act like he's actually doing something (like the healthcare fiasco or financial reform or cap and trade). Such a wasted presidency. So much potential pissed away because of Rahm's centrist positions. After 2 terms of boy wonder W, this country was desperate and ready for revolutionary changes, ready to re-invest in this country's infrastructure. Obama could have created millions of jobs by using that federal bailout money to create construction jobs to repair our failing roads and bridges, but instead he listened to Geihtner and paulson and bernanke and gave that money to banks which were 'too big to fail'.... and then those banks succeeded in watering down the financial reform bill until it no longer has any teeth, and the game carries on for them. <br />
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If you aren't outraged at the country's situation, you're hopelessly ignorant.

Married, From what I understand of it, the state's took much of last years stimulus money and propped up their budgets so were able to forstall the lay offs that are happening now.....which was way ok with me.....we were going down and we were going down fast in 08/09.....if the budget crisises (sp?) the state's are experiencing now had hit them last year during the collapse, It would have been too much of a blow when we were at our weakest, the freakin banks had no capital!!!! Makes me frightened now to think of it. Heaven help us, the whole kit and kaboodle could have been lost...and I don't think I am being overly dramatic when I say that.<br />
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Any chance you can explain what this elusive "alinsky method" is? Apparently we are all inflicted with it. Is there an antidote?<br />
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Lovemylady, consider this: progessive's established the ACLU. We revere Civil Liberties. Rest easy.<br />
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Allofus, I don't know the answer to any of your considerations but they are damn good ones. I have the movie "who killed the electric car" recorded on my dVR Maybe that can be the lazy ladies way to invesitgate....I should watch that, at least.<br />
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Puck, Hyeans are funny! It was meant to be funny and light. Guess not. <br />
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Leo, Puck is pretty cool. He might have weird notions, (joke! Its a joke!) but he's always very polite and respectful about it.<br />
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bitlord, the conservative media loves to taunt the fact that Obama's approval rating is going down. Let them feel smug. Half of that disapproval is from dems who wish he were much less bipartisan and more agressive with reform....Irregardless, the left is not going to dessert him come Nov......If we're very lucky, the Tea Party candidates will break free of the muzzles the republicans have clamped on them, and start shooting off their wacky mouths again....then we are in like Flyn!

Deficit is the problem?<br />
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Then why are repigs pushing for MORE trillions upon trillions in TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY but no money for the unemployed?!!!<br />
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/14/1730786/gop-no-more-help-for-jobless-but.html<br />
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Disgusting hypocritical liars!!!<br />
Remember, 11.3 TRILLION of the debt was rung up by tax cuts under Raygun, 41 and 43!<br />
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82% of the debt is REPUBLICAN debt!!!

Dear moderator - we have been having a fairly civil conversation... please note that leosdisciple has begun to employ the Alinski principle that we discussed in our last thread. Puck is pretty passionate about his points, but hasn't really crossed the line ... has he? I'm not sure how and when a purely personal attack such as the one above has any place in this conversation. i understand his point about small steps - but he spent much more time researching the person, "puck" than the puck's point. Puck's point about the 600 jobs being too little to late is a result of absolute frustration with activities that have been wildly anti business. I'm sure puck and all right wing hyenas are thrilled that 600 folk are getting jobs - we just want to see government get out of the way and let companies rock and roll to more and more jobs. instead of researching and attacking puck personally - a review of anti business policies would have been much more constructive.

In today's America, "cost effective" is an all encompassing term. Whether or not anything and everything will be cost effective, pretty much determines whether or not the economy will collapse, before we can come up with a viable alternative for oil. allofus makes an excellent point,<br />
If we can put a man on the moon, we should be able to make the hydrogen motor cost effective.<br />
(???)<br />
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Hyenas?? That's harsh.

Some questions to address about the economical feasibility of electric cars. To replace the batteries themselves cost is between 2-5 thousand dollars. It takes a lift or small engine hoist to remove them they weigh several hundred pounds. This will happen about every 5-9 yrs depending on how much you use it. Resale value of an electric car is almost 0, mostly due to the battery replacement fee. When a battery is done with there is, as of now, no disposal procedure for them. Again it will cost someone a good deal of money to dispose of all these batteries. Even if they go back to be recycled they have to be torn apart and chemicals and product not recyclable in them have to be disposed of. Old battery juice is extremely bad for the environment. These and several other issues will keep the electric car out of the hands of most people and will become the novelty car of the past.

Yes - and after I commented, I realized the flaw in my argument!! :) Still - your question regarding how much energy is wasted to make these electric batteries and electric cars is an important one for research. I have done this research and have an understanding of the challenge and problem it creates. While we are indeed speaking civilly - I wouldn't try to convince you with my foolish studies and hope you will check into it on your own. The loss is overwhelming. Alternatives like natural gas and bio fuels from algae farms are far less destructive to the economy and the environment. The problem lies in the intentions of our leaders - from both sides.<br />
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Your point to Puck is perfect ... trickle down economics is a solid and logical concept. It's the basis of emergency spending in a stimulus package ... tax cuts and other government interventions during rough times. I think where Puck and I have problems with Obama is in the massive stimulus package of last year ... very little of it was actually designed to behave in a trickle down fashion and much of it was permanent increases of funding to non economic entities. We and many Americans are also a bit nervous as we feel that the failure to keep the Bush Tax Cuts active for another couple of years will really hurt any trickle down effect. When your tax bill rises by nearly 100 a month next year - what will you cut out? Nancy says it's not a tax increase and semantics are semantics... we need a sound policy that encourages businesses to grow and achieve and discourages the government from making emergency activities permanent.

Puck, 600 people drawing a salary will spend their money in the community....it has a snowball effect. In addition, the factory will need supplies and have transportation requirements for the goods produced etc etc. Multiply that by all the projects in the Recovery Act and that equals significant economic S T I M U L U S.<br />
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Married2bf, I understand that it will be difficult to abandon combustion engines in all sorts of commercial areas, but I did specify personal vehicles.

I don't want to fight. You seem very level headed in your argument. Would you mind studying or hearing how abandoning combustion engines will effect the global food reserves?

As far as conservatives views on climate change are concerned, no one can deny that the climate is changing. It's mankind's effect on the climate that we argue. Mankind has had very little effect on the climate compared to nature herself. This has pretty much been proven by the effects of the volcano in Iceland., but that isn't the issue here. My point is, that 600 jobs doesn't do much for a state with over 13% unemployment, and the POTUS is still writing checks he cannot cash.<br />
-but we can do it! We can do it in November.<br />
I will say that I'm worried about our choices in 2012 though. I personally hope that Huckabee steps up to the plate.

Oh, Puck.....I'd love to have Grandchildren some day soon. And I, too, feel responsible for leaving them a healthy society.<br />
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Married2bf, you raise a good question....how much electricty is needed to charge these batteries? Whatever the amount the recovery act has provisions to contruct the infrastructure needed for the battery charging stations. http://www.evwind.es/noticias.php?id_not=6518<br />
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Personally, I think society would be better served if we abandoned combustion engines for personal vehicles. Algae or not<br />
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Yes, that's another good question....How clean is clean coal technology? Scrubber technology can always be improved, I guess, but private industry is not interested in pursuing it. Tech research is another area where goverment can and should take up the slack. <br />
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Conservatives do not believe in global climate change. I am not going to convince you otherwise. For the record, the climate scientists whose emails were hacked have been totally vindicated by three separate independent councels of inquiry.....<br />
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/07/climategate-scientist-relieved-vindicated<br />
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Meanwhile..The NOAA recently declared the first part of 2010 the hottest on record, <br />
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http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100715_globalstats.html

Are you aware that we can come a long way to meeting our oil needs by farming algae? Is there any discussion/possibility that we should look into investing in this proven technology? Or, is it that a green initiative has the ultimate goal of banning combustion engines to save a planet that has actually had a decline in global mean temperatures over the last 15 years?

Yes - the right wing shouldn't give a stone about Europe! It will be fabulous when the electric cars are running with an efficiency that is worth the expense... does anyone wonder how we're planning to produce the electricity to power these cars? <br />
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Just curious ... are you ok with nuclear, clean coal technologies and oil? I am absolutely in favor of using the American spirit to pursue electric vehicles - but I do hope everyone understands that at this time and with our current technologies electric cars are energy deficits ... I hope we are all entering this discussion with facts rather than being mislead by the actions of our president. It will be fine to run an energy deficit on electric cars in order to get off the teat of foreign oil, but we do need to enter this era with the full understanding of the amount of electricity and the infrastructure that we will be required to produce. Obama said “Yes” to a nuclear plant in GA. I’m waiting (and truly hopeful) that his actions will support this thread. Can we get a few more of these and some clean coal … or are we going to insist on currently inadequate infrastructure and wild hopes on weak green technologies?

I just want my Grand children to grow up in peace and comfort. When it all comes down to it that's all I want.

So much sour grapes. What has happened to the can do spirit of the american people? "won't work" "Not enough" "too late' "can't happen" Doom and gloom......Baloney!!!! GET UP AND MOVE AHEAD OR BE LEFT BEHIND! Seize the moment.....why not take advantage of these grants, step up and advance an idea, . Stop the obstruction!<br />
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I don't mean you personally, Puck. But I address the entire conservative mind set.<br />
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As far as Europe being against Recovery. (Since when does the right wing care about what Europe thinks!!!!!) The second link is from a technological site in Spain....they seem pretty excited about this advancement

600 jobs for a factory that will take some time to build and then fold soon after it goes on line.<br />
The National deficit is over 13 trillion. Even Europe is telling Barry to cool it on the spending.<br />
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You know you can always count on me, Annie.

Too little too late. This is like ******* in the ocean and saying "every little bit helps".<br />
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July 17, 2010<br />
Obama travels to Michigan to promote ‘green’ jobs<br />
By Amanda Carey - The Daily Caller | Published: 7:39 PM 07/15/2010 | Updated: 7:41 PM 07/15/2010<br />
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<br />
President Obama traveled to Michigan Thursday for the ceremonial groundbreaking of a new power plant that will manufacture batteries for electric cars. The Compact Power Inc. factory received $151 million in stimulus funds, and according to the Associated Press, will do its part to reverse the state’s climbing unemployment by creating 450 jobs by 2013.<br />
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But the Obama administration may be overestimating the prospects of new battery technology, as well as the promised plethora of new “green” jobs. Michiganders, especially, have reason to be slightly pessimistic about the president’s enthusiasm about a new battery plant.<br />
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According to the Washington Post, the White House has promised nine new electric battery plants to come from $2.4 billion in Recovery Act funds. However, only four of those will be operational by 2011. Furthermore, according to Recovery.gov, only $122 million of the $1.4 billion in stimulus money given to Michigan for green jobs initiatives has actually been spent.<br />
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But some experts say there is little reason to believe that spending on “green” projects will better help spur Michigan’s economy into recovery.<br />
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“There is no reason on Earth to think that spending money on green jobs is more effective than spending on other things,” Alan Blinder, a Princeton University economics professor and former Federal Reserve vice chairman told the Washington Post.<br />
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More broadly, the stimulus spending itself, green or otherwise, has not created any net new jobs in Michigan. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the state of Michigan has actually lost 69,400 jobs since the stimulus was enacted. As a result, the unemployment rate rose from 12 percent to 13.6 percent.<br />
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Given the dire state of Michigan’s economy, some experts believe that Obama’s focus on green projects—like the one he promoted Thursday at the battery plant—are a wasted effort.<br />
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“I don’t think this is the way to grow the U.S. or Michigan’s economy,” said Jack McHugh, legislative analyst for the Michigan-based Mackinac Center for Public Policy. “There’s no evidence that electric cars are the future; the market will sort that out,” added McHugh.<br />
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“I have no idea,” said Rep. Peter Hoekstra, a Republican who represents the district where the plant the president spoke at is located, when asked by The Daily Caller if investing in batteries for electric cars will benefit Michigan’s economy in the long run. He also pointed out that the situation would be very different if it was a business making this kind of investment, and having to weigh the costs and benefits of doing so.<br />
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“The federal government has got no skin in this game,” Hoekstra said.<br />
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Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/15/obama-travels-to-michigan-to-promote-green-jobs/#ixzz0tu0GpnUG