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I think that Obama's campaign focused sooo much on "change" that now people are expecting wayyy to much out of him. I do not support Barack Obama nor do I think we will be seeing any change, at least in this term. His next campaign speech he will be saying he needs four more to do what he promised this time.

MissThang420 MissThang420 18-21, F 64 Responses Jan 21, 2009

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I disagree. I have seen many instances on here where people have really confronted their beliefs and in some cases even changed their opinions based on arguments presented. Of course this doesn't happen often, usually the arguments are made and taken personally, and then the discussion devolves into an anonymous fight of insulting words. <br><br />
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Even if people do not change their minds because of what people say to them here, at least they are forced to re-examine why they think what they do. It takes courage and humility to admit wrong.

Ok so this is very interesting reading I have to say. I can see two very passionate sides trying to state there case and play my side is right. So I may not agree with Obama but since he is my husband new commander and cheif I will support him to the best of my abilities. I dont think this war will ever really be over. It cant there are two sides that are very different. It is just like this forum and like this forum nobody can agree to disagree one side has always got to be right. This war will probably end up with the Iraqi government being what they consider democratic which is no were near what we think of democtatic. With a base or two of american soldiers. Just like what we do in Korea. In this country there are sheik that contol each citywhich is usually corrupt as hell. But that is just how it is. I do think some change will come but what that is I have no clue nor do I think any does. During Obamas campaign he was the typical politican he told us what we wanted to hear. Like getting out of this war. Hate to break it to all but even Obama admitted that it is not going to happen for atleast 4 more years and that an additional 30,000 troops will be going to Afghanistan. I have to agree with MitchandMaureen the "job will never truly be finished". I love how people say that Bush lied to us about the war. This is one of my favorite comments. Yeah Bushed lied to us cause the intelligence commitee lied to him. Now aint that a good kick in the *** when that happens. It is just like with 911 if the intelligence committees would have gotten off there I am better than you then none of this would ever be happening but no one ever says that. No one ever says yeah this whole thing started because our intelligence agencies wanted to be ********. That is why I am happy that Obama chose his people the way that he did. He didnt just pick his friends cause they wouldnt lie to him. You know what they say keep you friends close but your enemies closer. With Gitmo Obama signing a piece of paper is just that I piece of paper. Who knows when all of that is actually going to happen. They have all of those people there. What are we goig to do with them? OUr soldiers are doing some great things over there that no one ever talks about which is a shame. Even civilians are doing great things in these two countries. I wish that reporters would show that more often but as a CNN executive was heard over saying "if it bleeds it leads". God Bless our troops and the great things they are doing over there.

of course he did something right, in 2000 he was selected and in 2004 he was elected. In the 2004 election, he accomplished this thanks to the patriotic effort of the "swiftboat veterans for smearing". After that.... um...errrrr..... well he did do a little to help AIDS in Africa. That's it. <br />
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We had weapons inspectors on the ground before the invasion who tried to tell us there were no weapons, so why would I believe that these mysterious WMD's that no one has ever seen were in Iraq but were moved out before we could find them? Occam's razor applies. <br />
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Instead of relying on hard evidence from Hans Blix, we relied on evidence gathered through torture (which doesn't even count as evidence because of how it was obtained) that linked Iraq and Al-qaida. <br />
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And the rest is, as they say, history.

Well said Keithseeker. Everyone agreed on the WMD issue. ( I personally believe they are in Syria. They had plenty of time to move them there.)...<br />
I don't think I could add to what Keithseeker has said .<br />
Mr. Bush did run two terms, so He must have done something right.

i think it is great that we have barack obama i think he is what we need if mcain was in office it would be just like george bush all mcain could do was bash on obama i wouldnt want that for president

Whuttup 12...I am not “glossing over everything with a broad brush”. I would say that you take an incredibly narrow view of what is and what isn’t. I have never defended Bush and the reality is he did not act alone. Congress did vote to allow the commander-in-chief to take military action and go to war. That is the “devil in the details”. People like Clinton who voted in favor of. People like Levin who voted in favor of. Two individuals who had more access to classified information that most others in Congress. passed Congress. They gave the Commander-in-Chief the right to go to “war”. If you want to talk details then talk about the numerous UN actions taken against Iraq since 1991. Talk about WMD that were in Iraq prior to our attack. The numerous Syrian and Russian soldiers and scientists who provided information that weapons were removed from Iraq prior to our attack. Remember when you announce your intentions to attack a country months before they might take some action. Do some research prior to 2001 about this issue. You might be surprised what you will find but you need to dig deep...real deep. I was surprised.<br />
Gitmo is a different issue. Although he did ask for a “legal opinion” and they stated that it was legal I question the judgement overall. <br />
But again lets look at the larger picture of how our government has let us down. The only issue is not Iraq. It is the economy, globalization, government greed, government waste, etc... We are witnessing the death of our Republic. Now you may like that but I do not. For the last 75 years, we have seen pieces put in place to destroy the Republic. Since the 70's we have seen our system taken off of the gold standard, NAFTA, utilization of the UN for peace-keeping missions, de-regulation of the banking system (and other systems as well), more power given to the Federal Reserve (which is not a government agency...they report to the banking industry). <br />
I am not a victim. You continue to view things as conservative vs liberal. Both sides have utilized that argument in many different ways through the years. That is not the issue facing us today. We have become a very lazy society. We have become a society of entitlement. We have become a society that thinks we are owed. Apathy has taken over our society. Again...not a conservative vs liberal issue. I respect your opinions (except when you are a smart-***

keithseeker, you are glossing over everything with a very broad brush. You are taking a position which basically claims that since everyone has screwed up and everyone is to blame, who cares about the details it's all just a big clusterfuck mess anyway. Well, the devil is in the details, and that is why you should be taking a closer examination. <br><br />
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Blaming congress is a nice start. I already dealt with those criticisms of what exactly congress did in regards to enabling the president in this so called 'war'. You never responded to any of it. <br><br />
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As for people being pissed at congress, again there are more pesky details. Are you familiar with the term "do-nothing congress?" People are upset with congress because they don't perceive them as fixing some major problems, like withdrawing from Iraq even though a huge majority of Americans want us to pull out. Take a look at this page and you'll understand why our congress "does nothing" and why they enjoy an approval rating lower than Bush's:<br><br />
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Don't you see you are a victim of a deliberate strategy aimed at increasing apathy towards government? One of the staples of conservative politicians is that government doesn't work, it's all incompetence and greed and corruption. Why elect a governing body of people who hate government and think it cannot help people, that is should just stay out of the way? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I say Government sucks. Elect me and I'll prove it" I mean are you serious?

MrsTJ- calling someone ignorant of an issue is often taken as an insult, but it shouldn't be. It simply means you are not aware of something, maybe you have a busy life and not enough time to pay attention to politics. That is no sin. It's not an attack on you, if anything, it's an attack on the media that is suppose to inform the public on what is going on. The fact that most of America is unaware (ignorant) of the torture policy of the US under Bush is a huge failure of the media.

whuttup: I never condoned torture! i never ever said i think it is okay to torture people. i never really hear about the issue, so i wouldnt necessarily call myself ignorant. maybe naive of the issue???? do you want to attack me anymore or are you done now?

Again whuttup miss the point of the original post. I have never said I am a Bush fan but this story has nothing to do with Bush. I do not agree with the policies that Obama stands for. I do not agree with a Congress that has let down the American people (both Democrats and Republicans). I guess my concern is that Bush has been blamed for everything that has happened in the last eight years. Most of the issues were in play before he was even elected. He did not act alone on a vast majority of the problems. How about focusing on all of those issues? Did Bush do some stupid things? Yes he did...just like every other President before him. Is Bush easy to pick on? Of course he is for a variety of reasons.<br />
Reality is that no matter who was elected they would still face the same problems. The President does not operate in a vacuum as many in here like to think (and yes there are so many Bush jokes from that statement Since Obama is surrounding his self with the Washington insiders...where is the change he promised? Beside the Gitmo issue...where is the real change? Yes it is early in his term but his team clearly indicates where he is as usual.

Keithseeker- Comments on Bush are called for on any story within the group 'Barack Obama is Dangerous for this country'. Anyone who thinks Obama is dangerous has not been paying attention to what Bush the imperialistic president has been up to these last two terms. <br />
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Good day.

So poodledoole..what mis-information am I spreading? It is clear you are so anti-Bush that you cannot see beyond that issue. I have never said that I am a fan of Bush. Reality is that our current mess does not rest solely on his shoulders. Congress got us to where we are now and this goes back decades. The main focus of the story has nothing to do with Bush. However, you have to take the opportunity to attack people who question if Obama focused too much on change. Get a

MrsTJ: Earlier you dismissed it - so either you are completely unaware of what your country has been doing, or you ARE aware of it and are not outraged. In either case, you are condoning it, whether through ignorance or ambivalence.


Lilianne, In this world there will always be half glass empty kind of people. I support our president and his optimism, optimism and hope is not for everyone.

MrsTJ, I cannot begin to imagine how hard it is to have a spouse over in Iraq. I won't change my opinion of anyone associated with the military condoning torture, though. <br />
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I watched the signing this morning, he signed 4 executive orders. If I remember correctly, the first one was to begin the process to close Gitmo, to be completed by this time next year at the latest. Second one was to outlaw torture, and to resort only to the Army field manual for interrogation techniques. Third one was to create a commission of top military commanders to review and oversee how we handle enemy combatants and recommend any needed changes to the President. The fourth order was to postpone a trial of a particular enemy combatant. <br />
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The commission that will review our interrogation techniques could recommend, in theory, the same enhanced interrogation techniques that were in place under Rumsfeld & Cheney, and this is cause for concern to those of us who don't want any gray area when it comes to torture. I don't personally see a problem with it, however, because that commission is made up of the same military brass that just got done begging Obama to end our approval of torture. I don't see them doing an about face and suddenly getting behind waterboarding or anything like that. <br />
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After that Obama had a conference at the State department (remember them? Almost irrelevant during the past 8 years since Bush didn't care about diplomacy) and there they appointed a few very capable men to work on the Israel/Palestine clusterfuck. These were the same people that were successful in ending the conflict in Northern Ireland between the catholics and protestants, so maybe, just maybe, they can make progress in the Gaza *****. <br />
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Like Tzech said, a lot happened on day 2. Hope is a good thing.

no i dont like to watch the news

hmmm. just wondering if you checked the news for day two. change has already begun. perhaps just not what some would expect.

thank you and i misunderstood what someone said about the torture thing. i took it as something els.e sorrry.

I second poodledoodle's thanks and wishes for you, too, MrsTJ. I am sure it is very hard having your love so far away. My prayers are with you, with him, and with all the men and women who are serving. May they all come home safe.

Since you have stated repeatedly that you ARE a military wife, I think it a bit late to complain that someone calls you one. I am quite sure that whattup, as OGND stated too, was expressing legitimate concern for ALL people in the military who might be subject to torture! Senator McCain was also opposed to torture for this very reason -- if we use it, it will be used against us.<br />
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Of course the problems that we have in this country today cannot be solved in 4-years. But change has to begin somewhere! And it is beginning now, with this new administration. Our foreign policy should become more nuanced and reasonable, our economic policies more equitable, our social policies more humane.

I would be generous and assume that he was expressing a fear for you rather than a condemnation. Your husband's profession puts him at a greater risk of capture and torture himself. If you cannot see a problem in a government (any government) sanctioning torture, then I am personally afraid that you may have to reap that whirlwind one day. :( Sorry, hun.

whuttup, i dont think you should be questioning me as a military wife.

Whuutup: pointing out that other Presidents have done similar things in the past isn't a rationalization: sorry if it came across that way. I was just stating fact. It doesn't make Bush's actions any more reasonable or moral or legal.<br />
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See, that's the great thing about the US system of government: just because the government does something, that doesn't automatically make it legal. Nixon tried that argument of Executive privilege and effectively failed (even though he too got off scot free).<br />
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My point is that Bush only got to do all the horrible things he did because other people let him. Once upon a time we impeached a President, just for firing a member of his own cabinet! That's how much power Congress used to afford the Executive. If one branch of government tramples on the Constitution, then it is the responsibility the other branches to stop them. That simply didn't happen in this case - and that was really, REALLY wrong.<br />
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I think it's too convenient to lay all of the blame at Bush's feet alone. You've simply cut one head off a hydra - there are a lot more heads to go.

Don't get me started on executive privilege... they try to use that to excuse any action.

As for "finishing the job"... what exactly does that utopian fantasy look like? So far we have succeeded only in toppling a dictator and unleashing a power vacuum that has torn Iraq apart. Iraq was ruled by a dictator, but at least they were secular and functioning. Most Iraqis that became "insurgents" did so because their society was completely destroyed by our benevolent invasion. Forget going to work, they could no longer leave their house. And now we have a power struggle between the Kurds, Shia and Sunni factions, and that great democratic government that Bush points to is now a theocracy. <br />
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What does your version of "Mission Accomplished" look like?

Fine, MrsTJ you can say that you think Barack is going to be a bad president, though given our last president I'm not sure how anyone could claim that he could ever reach Bush's ineptitude. Everyone gets an opinion, even if that opinion is amazingly vacant of justification. Obama has already done more good in his first 2 days than Bush has managed in his 2nd term. <br />
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Keithseeker, congress never voted to go to war. There is no war. It's an occupation. Who do you think Congress declared war on? Iraq? No, sorry, we're not at war with Iraq. We're trying to instill a puppet government there. Also, you can't declare war on a word, so there is no "War on terror" as our amazing ex-president would have most of America believe. The war on terror is a slogan, not an act of congress. <br />
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Congress voted to give the commander in chief the authorization to use force, something that he would only do as a last resort based on rock solid evidence...right? Hahahaha. They were hoodwinked by Powell and his drawings of mobile weapons labs, some of the SUPERB intelligence that we gathered through torture. On top of that, we also learned, through torture, that Iraq had a connection to Al-Qaida. Turns out that information was as reliable as all information obtained through torture, meaning 'not very'. Ask John McCain if torture will make you tell the truth or tell your captors anything to make them stop. <br />
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The cost for our occupation-of-a-country-that-didn't-attack-us is not even part of our federal budget. Every dollar that's been spent in Iraq has come from special appropriations bills, sort of an emergency fund. A "temporary" emergency that has gone on for 5 years...and if McCain had won it could have stretched off into the horizon, since he didn't see any big deal with us being there a hundred years from now. <br />
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To those of you who rationalize Bush's actions vs. past presidents and that somehow makes it less horrible, you're ignoring some inconvenient facts. No presidency in our history has sought to consolidate executive power as much as Bush/Cheney. They believe in the unitary executive, which is a concept that is so un-american it should make everyone vomit. Cheney's view (and therefore Bush's) is that the President does not need to defer power to the other branches of government. Signing statements, anyone? Yes, other presidents have used signing statements in isolated circumstances. Any idea of how many times Bush has signed laws with his fingers metaphorically crossed, in effect saying "yes I'm signing this law but I don't necessarily have to OBEY this law, I'm the unitary executive."<br />
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It sickens me to see a military wife shrug off torture like it's not such a big deal.

Tell your husband that some in this country are grateful to him and you for your sacrifice. We are thankful that we have brave men and women who don't just sit at home and spout off about how much they know. As for Obama, I pray for him, but see I'm one of those gun toting folks who doesn't think they should sit and do their nails while others blow them up.

How true. :) Once again, it's a matter of personal conscience. Respect for the Executive office is necessary if the military is going to function properly. However, freedom of personal conscience is necessary if AMERICA is going to function properly.<br />
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I think Wraither raised a good point: Mrs. TJ is effectively only saying what Obama has already said himself. So there's nothing to be so afraid of! Hehehe...

It is JUST like saluting. A salute is rendered as RESPECT for the position/rank. It does not mean I LIKE YOU.

so mitch just because i have my own views doesnt mean they cant be separate from my husbands? hmmmm .... as far as i knew, i may be wrong, i thought my husband had to OBEY his commander in cheif, he doesnt necessarily not have to LIKE him or share the same views. am i correct? <br />
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and no, wraither i did hear or listen to his speech the day he won the election

Mitch, you are quite right about the fact that the Executive banch skewed military intelligence to support it's cause, but are you suggesting that the majority of Congressmen (and women) were not intelligent enough to investigate the Executive's claims on their own? Even the UN still believed that Saddam was lying about his WMD - it just wanted more time to search.<br />
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The whole point of the US electoral system is that it has lots of fail-safes to prevent one branch of government from doing something rash, corrupt, or downright stupid! If the fail-safes themselves failed, then blame the people who didn't do their jobs and didn't ask enough questions.

From the original post: <br />
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"nor do I think we will be seeing any change, at least in this term."<br />
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Of course we will see some kind of change, change happens all the time whether we want it or not. I don't think you seriously believe that nothing whatsoever will change during the next four years. I am positive that whatever changes will come, they will be for the better, but that's just my personal estimation and I might be wrong. We'll see. <br />
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"His next campaign speech he will be saying he needs four more to do what he promised this time."<br />
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Did you even listen to his speech that he gave on the day he won the election? He didn't promise that everything will be turned around in one single term. He said that there is a huge amount of work to do and that it's likely that America won't "get there in one term", i.e. getting to the point where the economy is stable, serious things are being done about the climate and big progress is being made on ending the two wars etc. He also said something like: "We might not get there in one term, or even two terms, but I promise you America, we will get there!"<br />
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He didn't promise to fix everything during the next four years so your criticism has no substenance.<br />
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You have different expectations for Obama and that's totally fair. I only ask of you to get the best out of the situation and do your part to help the country now that the election is over. I remember my favourite lines from him so far. He also spoke them during his acceptance speech after having won the election. He said: <br />
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"And to those Americans whose votes I have yet to win: "I will listen to you, I need your help, and I will be your president too!"

*** gracious curtsy ***

I don't really care if you agree or not, my point in thanking you was for acknowleding the fact that I expressed myself. So, like I said THANK YOU.

I wasn't agreeing with you, Honey. But I'll defend your right to speak your conscience.<br />
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BTW - the name calling is a bit childish, don't we all think?


Hehehe... What a delightfully bombastic debate!<br />
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NudeinVA: you might want to read your Constitution again. It protects against unreasonable search and seizure. It never mentions your privacy.<br />
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Poodle: although I agree with a lot of your sentiment, I don't understand what part of Keith's post you were contesting. Congress DID vote to give the President the right to go to war. Wiretaps and other suspensions of the Constitution have been perpetrated in the past by Presidents from both sides of the aisle. You might want to investigate the civil liberties that FDR rolled back during WWII, and the illegal internment of US citizens of Japanese and German descent. That doesn't make these actions right - but credit where credit's due. The US news media IS biased. All media outlets are biased - just about different things. They're human and they have axes to grind and friendships to maintain.<br />
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It strikes me that Mrs TJ's original point was that immediate and significant change under Obama is an unrealistic expectation. This doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one would contest that he has a lot of work to do and a hard road ahead. She believes that change will not come because she questions his motivation. I hope she's wrong. However I believe that exercising her right to question her President is far more patriotic than acting out of blind support. <br />
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America has been badly let down by a lot of people over the past eight years - not just Bush.

you are.

uhm keithseeker is right. The orginall point of this post was the obama put too much emphasis on "change" for his campaigne. If you don't agree then you don't have to tell me. Because I really don't care. It's just funny that mostly all of the ones that commented are the ones who habe something bad to say. But, thanks to all of the ones who do support the STATEMENT i made.

MitchandMaureen, you are spot on on all your points. One thing that really irks me is the claim that if we are not guilty that these wiretaps and "warrant less' searches are okay. It is not okay for government to butt into any part of your life unless there is reasonable cause and legal steps have been taken to ensure that no citizen or resident of the US is impeded upon by individuals who are not authorized to do so. Our right to privacy is guaranteed in our Constitution and there is not reason to ever impinge upon these rights!

"and, what i ment when i said "see this what i mean", is i cant stand people like you." -That was an outright stupid thing to say to "whattup12". <br />
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A wise man once said to me: "has it ever occurred to you that you don't know ****?" <br />
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He is not a savior, but he can only improve the recent cluster ****. You should not be so quick to arrive at such rigid views. Especially at such a young age.

Of course the numerous UN acts against Iraq since 1991 play no role in anything. “Pay attention to news reporting” because the news would never provide a slanted view of what is or isn’t. Is that correct? What an incredibly ignorant thing to say! It has been proven that the US media is very bias. Maybe some of you need to do a complete search of information to find out some of the “facts” related to this. Do I agree with war? No I do not. Are there times when we have to fight in a war? Yes. Is this one of them? I’m not convinced. Who voted to go to war? Oh yes...that would be Congress. Since we are there, the job does need to be completed. Many mistakes were made early on in this “war”. The biggest mistake would be to withdraw our troops completely without clear time lines and ob<x>jectives.. Again read some books to find out the reasons why!<br />
And of course no other President has shredded the constitution. a little research and you might be surprised what you will find (both Republican and Democrat). The Patriot Act was passed by who? Oh that’s right...Congress...not the President. Maybe some of you need to review how our country works.<br />
So how many “innocent” people have been tortured? None of us know for sure. Reality is that information was obtained from the torture that was utilized. Information that did prevent other planned attacks. Am I in agreement with torture? No I am not. Is this a negative slam at Bush. Yes it is. Was he right in what he did? I don’t think so. As far as wiretaps...again look at the number of Presidents who have utilized this over the decades. Both parties have done it.<br />
It always amazes me that when “liberals” (and yes I am generalizing) don’t agree with an opposing viewpoint they attack the person. People are entitled to their opinions. If you don’t agree that’s fine but disagree without the name calling. More importantly the original story was that Obama put too much on the change issue during his campaign to be President and that people are expecting way too much from him. A very true statement. People are expecting way to much from an individual who cannot make these things happen.

You are right. If anything is going to affect the image some have on President Obama is the irrational expectations of some of the citizens. I watched CNN today and they were interviewing people on the street asking them how long do they think it would take the new Pres to turn things around ? One said, 2 weeks, another one was more generous and went for 4 weeks and some who were decidedly more patient expected a full turn around in two months !!! With those childish and not very realistic expectations, the opposition will have a field day , if Obama doesnt change the country in the next 24 hours.

People need to be patient and realistic about what to expect from President Obama. The economy isn't going to rebound overnight. The troops won't be home tomorrow. We will still have the illegal immigration problem next week. There will still be pork barrel spending. We have to give the man some time to work on these issues. If McCain had been sworn in do you think things wiill have happened any faster?

There is some confusion about what it is being a citizen of the US and having a political affiliation.<br />
The other day a poster got upset because I told her that now that Obama was in office, the more productive thing was if she was a citizen of the US to support him as her President so that the country could move on leaving the black days of this crisis behind. Well, she got upset because I was questioning her citizenship and her patriotism. HUH ?<br />
I didnt even know where she was from. Anyone can have an opinion on Bush or Obama, but is the citizens of the United States the ones who have a new President now, regardless of their political affiliations. But some , don´t get it.

Yes, Mrs.TJ, Torture and warrantless wiretaps and people being held without charges. It is easy to call these people terrorists, but without trials we will never know. It is easy to put quotation marks around the word "warrantless" but that does not make them legal. And while I have no criminal activity to worry about, I DO worry when my government decided to ignore the law and ignore our founding documents... it was because of tyrannical government that our first patriots took up arms and formed this country. A warrantless wire tap is cause for grave alarm whether it is done in the name of national security or not. It is still an abridgment of our constitutional liberties. It is an attack on all of us!

That's such a typical and pathetic move, turning criticism of a truly dim president and his policies into an attack on the troops. Criticizing a corrupt leader's decision to go into a war of choice is NOT talking bad about the troops. The troops didn't decide where to deploy to. God what a retarded comment. They are brave, and doing their job the best they can. Why can't you separate their service from the truly horrible decisions that the decider in chief has made? <br />
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Sorry, the terrorists that attacked us weren't from Iraq. Al-qaida was not in Iraq until after we invaded. The 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and the reason we didn't invade that country is because your precious president is very close to the Saudi royal family. Hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and the Taliban were in Afghanistan, and Al-qaida cells were in Pakistan, so NATURALLY we invaded Iraq. <br />
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The argument that the world is a better place without Saddam, btw, is weak. He ruled Iraq with an iron fist, and he was a terrible person who did atrocious things to his people...decades ago. Did you watch Saddam's trial? The crimes he was charged with occurred decades ago, but after 9/11 suddenly his crimes seemed much worse to us I guess. <br />
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You should really learn more about the entire situation, especially since you have a loved one over there. Why don't you read a book on it or pay attention to the news reporting. Blindly placing your faith in the President's decisions without examining the choices he makes... that's not patriotism. It is patriotic to protest the government when they do wrong. Blind allegiance is ignorant. <br />
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Do you have any clue, any clue whatsoever about how many innocent people we have apprehended and tortured? Waterboarding is torture. It is a war crime, and goes against the army field manual. Go to google video and watch the true documentary "Taxi to the Dark Side" and come back tell us if you still are ambivalent about torture. <br />
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Why do you think the world is so elated about Obama's election? Do you think they are all Democrats, that the people of the world can't wait until Obama changes the tax code or passes universal healthcare? They could care less about trivial issues such as that. They are excited because he is, as of today's executive orders that he signed, ending our acceptance of torture. America can once again be the leader of the free world and stay true to its ideals, instead of Bush's might makes right and screw the world approach. <br />
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I'll go out on a limb and guess that you support him just because he's Christian and pro-life (never mind that he's a warmonger and is responsible for over 4,000 US troop fatalities and countless Iraqis). You obviously don't support his policies just because he's president, because you give no such respect to Obama.

i agree. if the change was from the bottom up, then why werent we, the civilians, taking charge of our lifes and our situations during the bush administration. when america felt we were in a bad place, it was blamed on bush. not ourselves. now all of a sudden, because someone apparently told us to, we are going to make some great radical change???? hmmmm

I agree that we should back whoever is the President. Reality is that our current situation is the result of the President, Congress and the Courts actions over numerous years. This is not a Bush thing, or a Clinton thing, or a Liberal/Conservative thing...this is our “leaders” (elected leaders) doing things that are changing our Republic. One thing people need to remember that we are seeing our Republic slowly dying (and no it’s not a liberal issue). That is something that I am not proud of. Change will be forced upon all of us. The “global economy” is coming much quicker now. Our lifestyles will need to change greatly. Let’s hope we are ready for it. Is Obama the only person to every talk about people “step up”? Many other Presidents have and people should do more for their community on a regular basis. Is Obama experienced enough? No but I don’t think that will be a major problem. There are far greater problems out there. The experience factor is the least of our worries. As people talk about change from the bottom up, we now get into the area of revolution. The change has to come from those that make decisions. From those that believe NAFTA and de-regulation of the banking system were good things for our country. If they are not willing to then action must be taken. Haven’t we been there before? Nice ideas but not practical in our current situation. It’s too bad that people get caught up in their political beliefs as opposed to getting caught up in what is happening.

I agree that many Americans seem to have elevated Obama to near godhood. Even I have encountered two people who honestly believed Obama would solve every single financial problem they have, and that every thing will be wonderful now that he is president. unfortunately the executive branch just isn't that powerful.<BR><BR>he does seem to be somewhat of an idealist when it comes to what he thinks he can accomplish, but it's clear he's also motivated, energetic, and intelligent. I think we will see some good come out of his administration.<BR><BR>I do wish that America could be a little less divided about his presidency. There’s nothing we can do about who is the president during the next four years barring any extreme mistake or issue which causes him to be impeached. realistically, being the president of the United States is an EXTREMELY difficult job, something few of us will ever come close to having to deal with, and Obama seems quite capable right now of not only surviving his four years without losing the support of America, but probably accomplishing some good for this country.

I'm corny and I'm proud! Singing: People Get Ready There's a Train Comin! Just Get On Board! (LOL! Where's my straight jacket?)

LilAnnie -- Right on!


Maybe if you listened really hard next time, you'll hear him say that the change is not with him, the change is with us. He's calling us to step up and get involved. To stop the constant bickering and fault finding and just be the change we want. Its a progressive attitude that comes right out of the community, with the community and for the community. It's change from the bottom up, not the top down. A high bred philosphy that takes the best from conservatism, self reliance, and liberalism, the common good. Ok? Get on board!

MrsTJ...I understand where you are coming from and I do agree with you. I continue to see people on here that cannot or will not look at the larger picture. Obama is a politician...nothing more. He will do what every other politician has done. Make promises to make everything better. The current configuration in Congress will allow some of those things to happen (i.e. universal healthcare). But like most things our government gets involved in, it will be a disaster (i.e Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, NAFTA, de-regulation of the banking industry, etc...).<br />
Please thank your husband for his service. I appreciate everything that he is doing for this country. The job needs to be finished before the troops leave. Thank you for the courage to speak your mind when most on here do not agree with your thoughts. I hope and pray your husband returns to you with no injuries.

torture???? warrantless wiretaps? if you arent doing anything wrong, then these so called "warrantless" wiretaps would have no affect on you. and as far as the war goes, do not even get me started. my husband is overseas right now and i get REALLY pissed off when people talk bad about the war. maybe the paticular country didnt attack us but the terrorists in it did. no, we can not catch every terrorist in the world, but we sure have caught a whole lot since we were first overseas. also iraq is doing a lot better. they have a democracy now and if it wasnt for the us or president bush, they wouldnt. how come people dont focus on the positive circumstances of this war. Like, do you think i want my husband over there in that danger everyday? hell no. but that is his jobs. and yes, the soldiers want to come home of course. but they want to come home when there job is DONE and finished. the right way.<br />
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and, what i ment when i said "see this what i mean", is i cant stand people like you.<br />
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and what changes do you believe he is going to implement? <br />
<br />
Does that mean you are happy with many of the current policies, such as torture, no habeus corpus, & warrantless wiretaps, illegal pre-emptive war against a country that didn't attack us? You do know that those things are against the constitution, the document that the president is supposed to defend and protect? Bush has shredded the constitution. <br />
<br />
Please elaborate.

Yep, I have absolutely no problem with his race, just the changes I believe he intends to implement. If I wasn't a <br />
patriot I'd probably shut down Gitmo and turn them all loose on us again too. How long until CHANGE does away with our right to say what we believe?

What is?

lol this is what i am talking about

He had a great first day, we're already shutting down Gitmo, one of the bigger disasters of the Bush administration. <br />
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But you keep on cheering against him and hoping America's economy continues to fail, because that's the patriotic thing to do.

Agreed!!!! lol...funny how no one else seems to understand that.