Unfortunately

I disagree, sustainability is an overused term like global warming and overpopulation used by the mainstream media to beat us over the head with the idea that humans (the masses) should not be allowed to live, or at least we should be sterilized. These terms and so-called grass roots movements originate from think-tanks, and that is a fact. EG Club of Rome, Tavistock institute.

niceguyinhell, have you ever spent any time in China before? It is difficult for me to try and describe the mentality, but they are quite proud, and their official commitment to "Capitalism with a Chinese Style" is short on words, but long on action. Their dependence on coal is a big problem, but the economy and the society seem to be maturing nicely. If you can read Mandarin Chinese, the Chinese blogosphere is pretty active and vocal, despite the official firewalls. They're committing every "developing nation" mistake -- eg. razing heritage structures -- but the experiences of the last 100 years or so (including the Cultural Revolution) have left them with a sense that the good life is not an entitlement or something which can be taken for granted (Cf. the stock stereotypical US attitudes). They are finally beginning to tackle their migrant worker problems. And the African states which have been selling their national resources to them at bargain-basement prices are getting street-smart.



India is another country I follow closely, and although they have disasters on the Bhopal scale, I can tell you for sure that the "Indian dream" is not necessarily the "American dream". The domestic Indian car industry is a good case-study; there are many faults, but the system is also surprisingly pragmatic.



Thanks for being such a gracious host to people like me on your thread.



AP

Not sure that China is really all that interested in staying put. The 25 coal-fired power plants they are building every year seems to suggest they are very interested in "progressing" to our way of life by any means necessary. The pollution is really exploding out of control over there and while they are getting worried about it, they don't seem to be slowing down.



Africa also seems (with some exceptions) to be obsessed with the idea of building more roads, mowing down more rain forest so they can plant crops, build more factories, etc. Its totally understandable, but unsustainable for that region of the world. The planet needs those rain forests. To be blunt any lifestyle other than hunter/gatherer in Africa is probably a bad idea. Thee is simply no way to live a "modern" life in Africa (at least not for MILLIONS of people) without cutting down the rain forests and paving over them. No one really wants to come out and say it, but personally I don't see how it's possible. I mean, it's ALL a very delicate ecosystems in Africa. You just can't have roads, factories, grocery stories, etc for millions and millions of people without encroaching on rain forest. Which puts us (the developed world) in a very awkward position because how can we tell them "No, you can't have shopping malls" when we do and enjoy them?



I agree that, yes, Japan and Singapore are not America and are very good at recycling and conservation...but does it really matter? So long as China and the US are consuming over half the world's resources between them and producing half the world's pollution, it almost doesn't matter what anyone else does (in a certain sense).

:D



No worries, K, I loved that!

Maybe the Asians will be like the cockroaches after a nuclear winter and survive the deluge. Sorry, I have had way too much coffee tonight.

Dear niceguyinhell, it is very likely that I am a ****-eyed optimist, but from where I am -- in Southeast Asia, in the developing world -- I actually don't think that "the World" wants to be America. Not any more.



From Singapore, I have pretty good seats to observe different models of development. People in the Third World may want Nike sneakers and iPods, but even in Singapore -- GDP per capita USD$52,000, by 2008 figures -- people are loathe to waste water or food, just about every scrap of cardboard and every aluminium drinks can is collected, and mega-portions of food or heavy meat consumption simply aren't part of the culture. There is a little coffee shop near my Tiny Flat which still serves rice meals on banana leaves instead of plates (they are seared quickly to burn off the hairlike fibres). In India, these leaves would be fed to cows; no washing up. People think that private swimming pools are lunacy (what a waste of water!); I honestly don't think they will ever catch on.



Japan has one of this planet's best records for recovering recyclable waste. By far. And it is deeply engrained in the mentality of the Japanese people. In several Asian countries -- eg. Japan, Singapore -- the airconditioning in public buildings is subject to strict limits. You can't set the thermostat at below 26 deg C. In South Korea, public buildings are only allowed to switch on the central airconditioning when the ambient temperatures hit a certain threshhold.



I'm not pretending to be an expert on "Asia", but that is how it looks to me in India, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, China, and even South Korea. The basic mindset seems to be more friendly towards "sustainability," somehow.



Peace,

Andrew

No worries...some natural disaster is right around the corner of human existence and then it will all reset. ;)