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God and Science

I am about to get my MS in Thermal /Fluid Systems. Im telling you this because this will justify my basis in believing in God.

GOD EXISTS. He has to. How else could the universe be the way it is.

The Big Bang. Ok I'll play along. The Big Bang happened and then the universe was created. Really....so how did the Big Bang happen, did it just happen? I dont think so. Some sort of energy had to be put into the system.

The Universe is a closed system. There is nothing outside the universe. You cant have energy just spontaneously appearing in a closed system. That violates the laws of thermodynamics and our universe is based on the laws of thermodynamics.

If someone has found a way to break the laws of thermodynamics, send me an email and we'll get rich together.

God exists people! Our universe's existance is proof!

Silver01ta Silver01ta 31-35, M 50 Responses Feb 15, 2008

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"The Universe is a closed system. There is nothing outside the universe." How can you be sure of this? I don't consider myself atheist necessarily, but saying that big bang is absolutely false judging from only what you presented above and then claiming something like the quote above is taking very big jumps isn't it? Did you study any quantum physics and varying scientific theories of genesis/universe shape/existence during your MS?

How did you consider that Universe is a closed system ?

this is old..There's more to it than the first law of thermodynamics. Newton's second law, the law of conservation of energy, the law of causality, cell theory, 2nd law of thermodynamics. BTW, we don't yet know whether the universe is an open or a closed system.

I just accept that I'm not clever enough to know....and these days I care less and less that I don't know.

I think your theory proves that Zeus exists, but still fall shorts of proving God exists.<br />
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And the fact that Zeus exists. proves that he must have eaten a lot of pizza to get all the energy to create a universe in the first place.<br />
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So before all else, there was the Big Pizza.

Well...if we could just look at each other and see "God"...then maybe we wouldn't want to kill them and they wouldn't want to kill us.<br />
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Wait...That was the "Jesus" story...that was what he was saying...and all of the rest of them too.

Yes...I can. You can't beat that irony with a stick. In fact...I think Irony needs it's own diety...wait...could "God" actually be Irony...they seem to have a lot in common...<br />
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I know, I want to redefine "God"...let the republicans amend the Constitution about that...

'Can you believe Wars have gone on thousands of years because our differences in beliefs(or non beliefs)'<br />
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wars have not gone on becasue of religion versus non religon....wars have been fought becasue of one religion versus another religion.....and i, as an atheist, think it was all a big waste of time

A God that tripped on his own feet? Interesting. I guess in my book, that would not constitute that being as "God" seeing as how I define God as perfect and omnipotent. <br />
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On a side note taking a step back from the discussion...<br />
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Can you believe Wars have gone on thousands of years because our differences in beliefs (or non beliefs) in some invisible guy we cant see hear or touch?

Well, then we get into define what is functioning and what is not...which, I am sure we would disagree about as also.<br />
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I could believe in a god that wasn't perfect or all powerful...that, I could believe in. <br />
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I have never seen the show, but the quote seems to echo that phrase "Life is a journey, not a destination"...which, is something that I am sure we do agree on. Thanks for the mind food.

Well just how the universe is put together. It just seems to functional to be random. <br />
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Rolling 7's isnt the problem, its continuing to roll 7s. Which not impossible, but highly improbable. That kind of percision to me could not be achieved with out a higher power. Or rigging the dice....so maybe God just rigged us all...damn cheater...

this reminds me of an "Everybody Loves Raymond" episode<br />
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Debra: "Maybe thats kinda of the meaning of life, never knowing the answer but always wondering it."<br />
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Ray: "So God made us smart enough to know there is an answer, but not smart enough to figure it out..."<br />
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Robert: "COME ON!!!!"

If you roll 7's...then did the dice do it...or did you do it? Or did God do it...it is an interesting question. I totally do not get the "precise" thing...I don't see that at all as a constant except maybe possibly in the realm of the natural world...but humans are not precise, at all, in our feelings or emotions...

I looked around the same way you did and came to a different conclusion. Everything is so percise that it just cant be by chance. Someone had to have purposely put everything in its place.

Yes, but if you were rich, you would have a hard time getting into heaven...<br />
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Thanks for sharing...I used to feel like you. Then I stopped reading the books and looked around me, at all of the complexity...and I thought that it was just too complicated and structurally sound for divine progenesis....but that is just Me.

it would be bad *** if it just happened. But to ME and this is just to ME, that isnt enough. Based on my observations on life and my knowledge of the books, it makes the most sense to ME. I just happen to share what I believe in. <br />
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If I was 100% correct, Id be rich anyways

I don't believe that "God" made anything happen. Why does the catalyst have to be divine or mythic? Can't we just have happened? That would be a real miracle...<br />
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Omnipotence is the biggest lie ever sold to the soul under any auspice.

Entropy may be a measurement of irreversability...like death. I don't believe that God is immune to energy, that doesn't make sense...duh. But, I am not a scientist like you...

I think maybe we should stop putting human limitations on everything, atheists and theists alike. In our world, things are born. Everything has a beginning and an end. But why can't something just be, without ever having been born or created? I guess that's all I can make of it...some things just are. Sometimes questions don't have answers.

you dont want any of these shoes....

yah, i'll take the shoe.....

Hrm... convenient. You seem to be someone who will refuse to even consider the opinions of others. Therefore, I'll be off. <br />
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Good luck with the thermodywhatsits...

And btw, my theroy is based on the Universe being a closed system that has a boundary in which energy can pass through it. Outside of the closed system is God. Outside the boundary of God, energy can not pass through. therefore no energy is needed to create God. He is the outer boundary of the universe.

God created thermodynamics, duh!<br />
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the shoe is off people!

entropy is the measure of irreversibilty

Silver01ta...<br />
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If your argument against the Big Bang Theory (and for a God) is that nothing - least of all the universe - can spontaneously come into being, you are effectively disproving your own point.<br />
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That is, unless you can "prove" how God got around thermodynamics when he, er... created Himself (???).

How do we know there is nothing outside the universe? <br />
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We could say the same things about our own minds...<br />
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I remember a word called entropy...something about heat in a closed system going no where...death, implosion...

Brazi, being a male and being los angeles just speeds up the dying process

Well I believe that God exists and my mathematical proofs are justification enough to me. <br />
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If you do not believe in God I can either throw some thermodynamics at you or I can throw my shoe... your choice (if I were you Id pick the shoe)

not just that we're gonna die....but we are going to live first....thats the most important part. everything else is just details

hell who the hell knows right? <br />
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Only thing certain in this life is that we're gonna die....

well thats just rude :)<br />
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i dont tell anyone they are wrong and i'm right....atheism doesnt mean you know.....it just means you dont accept a truth which cant be proven.....

Well then Antiyou, I'll just have throw my shoe at you!

'I just love throwing the laws of thermodynamics back at atheists who improperly use it.'<br />
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i dont use science to explain my atheism

Especially when you back it up with a differential equation and then they are like... "huh?" <br />
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And thats when I say, "damn straight"

I just love throwing the laws of thermodynamics back at atheists who improperly use it.

I think I will fall back on my southern baptist christian teachings and say "believe what I say or I'll hurt you!"

Its not a reversible process, and I think that is where the 2nd law comes in

here you all go.<br />
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This is the answer!<br />
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http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/05/the_big_bang.html

'science doesn't disprove god as some may think.'<br />
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that is true brazi....just as it can not prove god either

here you all go.<br />
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This is the answer!<br />
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http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/05/the_big_bang.html

Hullo, man Id get into advanced thermodynamics... but I'd just confuse the hell out of alot of people (including me).<br />
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I did read a about a Quantum Phycistist and Algebraist (only like 4 of those in the world) who wrote this long proof about how God existed. Quite interesting.

Well, I think we can all agree that energy exists.

Possibly. God could be this blob of energy.<br />
God could have snapped his fingers and said BAM universe.<br />
God could have lit his fart and out comes the universe from his butt (4th Season Finale of Family Guy)<br />
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Who knows. But the energy had to come from somewhere. It just didnt start out like that

So god is just energy?

ooops forgot the 2nd law in there...but its kinda complicated.

hulloitsme is right, imo...like a never-ending math equation. I don't think that means there is a god, though.<br />
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I don't know anything about thermodynamics, but I think it's kind of crazy that you really think you can prove the existence of god right here on ep. It's not going to happen.

YOU BIT. Nice!<br />
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A few laws before we begin...<br />
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1st Law of Thermodynamics - thermodynamic system can store or hold energy and this energy is conserved<br />
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The Universe is the largest closed system. Unless someone proved me wrong (which they wont) there is not a larger system out there. The Universe somehow mysterously just formed it self? That makes no sense. There had to have been some initial amount of energy into the system. That intial amount of energy is God. With out going mathematical on you, this is the easiest way to state it. If this was the case you could take a container (say a box) that was a vaccum, and let it sit there and by some mysterious force it there would be life inside it? No. Our universe is a giant vaccum yet their is life in it. Why is that? In the box analogy life will only exist if and only if an outside energy source manipulates the box. Our Universe would be empty if it was not for the existance of God.

i dont know...i just think a 'magical' diety is much less likely than simple unexplained science that we will probably eventually be able to explain much later down the road....

'The Big Bang happened and then the universe was created. Really....so how did the Big Bang happen, did it just happen'<br />
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why are you so certain that a 'god' made the big bang happen....i find it odd, that when ever we cant figure out something, we just say 'god did it'.....i guess that perspective just isnt good enough for me.....i think there are answers to all the questions we dont know and we just havent figured them out yet......but attributing the unkown to god still gives no certainty<br />
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'God exists people! Our universe's existance is proof!'<br />
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the existence of the universe creates many unexplained questions.....but saying that god is the answer to those unexplained questions is just as unexplainable as the question itself.....so to me, you are still getting nowhere